John Shrader: Killing Snakes & Grifting Appliances for Jesus

[Palimpsest]

Yeah i wondered this. My lovely source has gone silent so if anyone who has been involved in those sort of churches knows please share!

Darn. I hope he'll communicate with you again. He was spot on with the repentance stuff and deserves thanks. It was rather obvious that he was reading here so hope he didn't go silent because I was mean to him challenged those donors and donor churches to look more carefully at people they funded.

[klavierspieler]

I had to call my mother to ask about a sending service. :lol: Our church never sent any missionaries but she said that churches that did send out missionaries would usually have a service where the missionary would preach and the men of the church would pray over him and his family. A meal usually followed the service. I explained John Shrader to her and she said that she didn't think it was something that they would bring him back to do, especially since he has been on the mission field for months and he will be leaving a wife and many young children in Zambia.

I think the church is doubting and/or Daddy Shrader is going to try to talk some sense into his son. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who told John to stop constantly bitching about it on the internet. Milly-Molly-Mandy's source is right, the more John talks and the more these supporting churches learn about him the less likable and trustworthy he becomes. And I bet Daddy Shrader knows this, but John is not one to tolerate people telling him what to do.

I agree with this. It feels like damage control to me. I have been to a sending service (once, and only once), and yeah, it was basically a special service where the missionary preached and the men in the congregation prayed over him, then our pastor did a speech officially imbuing the missionary with the authority to go forth on behalf of our church (gag) and then we had a fellowship afterwards. Losing your sending church isn't exactly a common situation, but the one missionary couple I knew of who did (whose church closed while they were on the mission field) found a new sending church while still on the field (the church the wife had grown up in, so they knew her pretty well already), and they didn't come back to officially meet the church until the five years before their scheduled break were up anyway.

[klavierspieler]

The I AM connection was always left - possibly deliberately - rather vague by Shrader and Rea. I assumed the connection because Shrader and Rea were mentioned by name in one of the old I AM news letters as possible future replacements. Kafulafuta is where they did their survey trips and footage of the I AM mission buildings appears in both their deputation videos. I think Bobby Bonner himself is shown in one, or perhaps both, videos and also John Sarra. Funding churches would recognize them and probably I AM was mentioned in church presentations.

I always found it strange that I could never find evidence of John or David publically announcing in their outreach materials a link with I AM. It puzzled me because I would have thought a connection with I AM's 25+ years in Zambia would have lent Team Zambia a lot of credibility. Instead they blathered on about building on the work done by other anonymous missionaries and about their church planting and printing ministry. John, in particular, was very big on Going Where No White Missionary Has Gone Before to reach the heathens -- thus the all important plane.

John announced that God was sending him to Kafue instead of to Kafulafuta very abruptly. I suspected a big split with I AM then. Since arriving in Kafue AFAIK he hasn't mentioned IAM's church plant there with the Zambian pastor. I think you mentioned that in another thread. These days he rather presents himself as the one and only true missionary in Zambia. And Beyond.

ETA: clarification

Ah, maybe that was why I couldn't remember for sure. I'm sure he did leave it vague deliberately, since Bonner's name/face would be easily recognizable and would bring in more churches even if he didn't explicitly admit whether they were working together or not. I wonder if some churches also felt betrayed by that on top of the doctrinal issues. If they thought they were supporting someone with Bobby Bonner's weight/experience behind him and then it turned out he was just a maverick, I could see quite a few churches being pissed off enough to yank their support immediately.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Please pass on my thanks to your mother for the info, formergothardite.

Yep, I think John (only John) is being brought back to Katy for some discipling disciplining by Daddy. And for a last desperate attempt to drum up more funding, under the guise of defensing himself against Satan. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that "Sending Service!"

I think his father is just as clueless as him and doesn't discipline John. All he does is bail him out as he has countless times before. If I was a member of that church I'd be pissed my money was always being used to support John Shrader and family.

Nothing makes me think his father would be upset with John.

Agee 100% about trying to drum up more funding though!

Formergothardite: thank your Mum for us!

[PrairieGirl]

I think his father is just as clueless as him and doesn't discipline John. All he does is bail him out as he has countless times before. If I was a member of that church I'd be pissed my money was always being used to support John Shrader and family.

Nothing makes me think his father would be upset with John.

Agee 100% about trying to drum up more funding though!

Formergothardite: thank your Mum for us!

Aren't Moms a great source of info? :)

As for John coming back to be disciplined, I don't believe it will happen. I truly hope that his father attempts to knock some sense into him, but do any of us believe John will listen? I am afraid that John will just believe even moreso that he is being attacked by Satan and it will make him want to stay in Zambia all the more, just to show everyone that he is doing the right thing and that God wants him there.

As absolutely everyone here at FJ has said from the beginning: it will be Esther and the kids that will pay the price of this jackass' pride and foolishness.

ETA: This will never happen, but I would squeal with glee if this was all orchestrated by Esther to get John out of the way for a few weeks so she could travel back to the US secretly and not tell Asshat her location. When he arrives back in Zambia on fire for God, all he finds is an empty house. Well, maybe with some squatters all moved in. Or with Arcade waiting to punch his lights out.

[nokidsmom]

ETA: This will never happen, but I would squeal with glee if this was all orchestrated by Esther to get John out of the way for a few weeks so she could travel back to the US secretly and not tell Asshat her location. When he arrives back in Zambia on fire for God, all he finds is an empty house. Well, maybe with some squatters all moved in. Or with Arcade waiting to punch his lights out.

I would so love for this to happen too but Esther would need someone to help out namely with money for flights to get home, booking them and a place to stay. Parents in this kind of situation (meaning spouse and kids getting away from crazy idiot spouse) would be the first and most likely source which would be Ma and Pa Keller in this case. They certainly wouldn't have that kind of money and I am not sure they would interfere with their daughter and her headship, because headship, authority and all that.

I have said in the past that Pa Keller deserves some responsibility in this as far as allowing his daughter to marry this idiot, thereby getting her and his grandchildren into this clusterfuck. I have long held that if a fundie dad believes in parent controlled courtship, headship and transferring his authority over his daughter to her husband, then he deserves some responsibility when the husband turns out to be a loser and his daughter and grandchildren suffer. However seeing how John managed to pull the collective wool over churches' eyes and lied about doctrinal issues in order to get funding and support, then he probably did a number on Pa Keller too.

[PrairieGirl]

I'll bet John was a smooth talker during Esther's courtship. I am not siding with the Keller parents at all, but I cannot imagine that they had envisioned their daughter eventually having nearly a dozen kids, trapped in Africa with a fake missionary husband who is losing church support quicker than fundie virginity on a wedding night.

That being said, I do wonder if either of her parents pulled her aside privately before they left and asked her if she really knew what she was getting into. Or at least begged her to reconsider for the sake of their children.

Not that it would have done any good. Submission and headship and penis worship and all.......

[Ellimenopy]

I would so love for this to happen too but Esther would need someone to help out namely with money for flights to get home, booking them and a place to stay. Parents in this kind of situation (meaning spouse and kids getting away from crazy idiot spouse) would be the first and most likely source which would be Ma and Pa Keller in this case. They certainly wouldn't have that kind of money and I am not sure they would interfere with their daughter and her headship, because headship, authority and all that.

I have said in the past that Pa Keller deserves some responsibility in this as far as allowing his daughter to marry this idiot, thereby getting her and his grandchildren into this clusterfuck. I have long held that if a fundie dad believes in parent controlled courtship, headship and transferring his authority over his daughter to her husband, then he deserves some responsibility when the husband turns out to be a loser and his daughter and grandchildren suffer. However seeing how John managed to pull the collective wool over churches' eyes and lied about doctrinal issues in order to get funding and support, then he probably did a number on Pa Keller too.

I haven't seen any indication that Esther is ready to fly the coop, but if she ever gets there, she has way more resources than most fundy women in her situation. She's got a few siblings "outside" in the secular world, as well as Josh and Anna, who have a lot of money compared to other fundies. God knows that if that was my sister, I would do whatever I had to get her out if she wanted to. If she wanted to, she could rally both the money and the manpower to get out of the country and lay low for a while. That's the only small comfort I have for Esther and her kids.

[nokidsmom]

I'll bet John was a smooth talker during Esther's courtship. I am not siding with the Keller parents at all, but I cannot imagine that they had envisioned their daughter eventually having nearly a dozen kids, trapped in Africa with a fake missionary husband who is losing church support quicker than fundie virginity on a wedding night.

That being said, I do wonder if either of her parents pulled her aside privately before they left and asked her if she really knew what she was getting into. Or at least begged her to reconsider for the sake of their children.

Not that it would have done any good. Submission and headship and penis worship and all.......

To be honest, I don't think they were worried about Esther heading out to Africa with all her kids, they probably thought it was a good thing. Because Jesus. Because she had a godly husband who was going to save the Zambian people from their own Christianity. Maybe word of John losing his church support and the reasons why might worry them as far as the family being stuck there but even then, they might be of the "god will provide" mindset and the problem will be solved.

ETA: true, Esther does have Josh and Anna who have money to help, but would they assist their sister to leave / disobey her headship? That's more the question I have with them. Would they, particularly Anna, tell her to pray harder instead? This would not be a question with the siblings on the outside however don't know if any of them would have the funds, unless they do something collectively.

If there was some emergency, political or medical requiring Esther to leave, then I could see Josh and Anna helping.

[Georgiana]

To be honest, I don't think they were worried about Esther heading out to Africa with all her kids, they probably thought it was a good thing. Because Jesus. Because she had a godly husband who was going to save the Zambian people from their own Christianity. Maybe word of John losing his church support and the reasons why might worry them as far as the family being stuck there but even then, they might be of the "god will provide" mindset and the problem will be solved.

ETA: true, Esther does have Josh and Anna who have money to help, but would they assist their sister to leave / disobey her headship? That's more the question I have with them. Would they, particularly Anna, tell her to pray harder instead? This would not be a question with the siblings on the outside however don't know if any of them would have the funds, unless they do something collectively.

If there was some emergency, political or medical requiring Esther to leave, then I could see Josh and Anna helping.

If Esther left it would be a scandal. Maybe not to us here, but to most of the Duggar's fanbase: yes. They would see John Schrader as the victim and Esther as the villain who abandoned God's call for work in Zambia AND to love and respect her husband. And since about the only thing John is good at is spinning situations and smooth talking, he would help that along. Unless Esther has hard proof of abuse, most of the Duggar fanbase would want her to stay with her husband.

And this wouldn't go quietly. Places would pick up that this is Anna Duggar's sister, more liberal individuals would support Esther's leaving, and then this would be part of the great culture war that Conservatives and Fundies believe they are fighting.

I can't imagine Anna would want that. It could very easily cost Josh his job at the FRC (since he ONLY got it because of his image from the show, once tarnished, he is nothing). It could cost the Duggars their show (since basically that following is all they have left and once they get Jessa's wedding and Jill's baby out of the way...what else is there that we haven't already seen?). Unfortunately, she'd be forced to choose between her sister's welfare and that of her own children. I think, like most mothers, she'd choose her children.

People are tired of the Duggars and want a Duggar Scandal. That's why RadarOnline always tries to manufacture them. A real Duggar scandal or a scandal of a connected family is going to take off like wildfire.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

The Kellers do a lot of prison ministry work, so they're pros at forcing themselves on others. I'm sure they 100% support this ridiculous Zambian mission.They might be concerned that John is losing support, but they likely have the mindset that "God will provide." I highly doubt Pa Keller thinks he's failed in any way.

[slickcat79]

I had to call my mother to ask about a sending service. :lol: Our church never sent any missionaries but she said that churches that did send out missionaries would usually have a service where the missionary would preach and the men of the church would pray over him and his family. A meal usually followed the service. I explained John Shrader to her and she said that she didn't think it was something that they would bring him back to do, especially since he has been on the mission field for months and he will be leaving a wife and many young children in Zambia.

I think the church is doubting and/or Daddy Shrader is going to try to talk some sense into his son. I wouldn't be surprised if he was the one who told John to stop constantly bitching about it on the internet. Milly-Molly-Mandy's source is right, the more John talks and the more these supporting churches learn about him the less likable and trustworthy he becomes. And I bet Daddy Shrader knows this, but John is not one to tolerate people telling him what to do.

I suspect this is the bulk of the "counsel" John received when he decided to shut his yap on FB. And now he just sounds like he's hiding something. He decided to make the video of Rodrick sharing his testimony private, but promises to have Rodrick share again later, when John's decided what spin it should have.

Please pass on my thanks to your mother for the info, formergothardite.

Yep, I think John (only John) is being brought back to Katy for some discipling disciplining by Daddy. And for a last desperate attempt to drum up more funding, under the guise of defensing himself against Satan. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that "Sending Service!"

They might film it. Seriously.

[slickcat79]

If Esther left it would be a scandal. Maybe not to us here, but to most of the Duggar's fanbase: yes. They would see John Schrader as the victim and Esther as the villain who abandoned God's call for work in Zambia AND to love and respect her husband. And since about the only thing John is good at is spinning situations and smooth talking, he would help that along. Unless Esther has hard proof of abuse, most of the Duggar fanbase would want her to stay with her husband.

And this wouldn't go quietly. Places would pick up that this is Anna Duggar's sister, more liberal individuals would support Esther's leaving, and then this would be part of the great culture war that Conservatives and Fundies believe they are fighting.

I can't imagine Anna would want that. It could very easily cost Josh his job at the FRC (since he ONLY got it because of his image from the show, once tarnished, he is nothing). It could cost the Duggars their show (since basically that following is all they have left and once they get Jessa's wedding and Jill's baby out of the way...what else is there that we haven't already seen?). Unfortunately, she'd be forced to choose between her sister's welfare and that of her own children. I think, like most mothers, she'd choose her children.

People are tired of the Duggars and want a Duggar Scandal. That's why RadarOnline always tries to manufacture them. A real Duggar scandal or a scandal of a connected family is going to take off like wildfire.

Honestly, I can't imagine any of that happening. There are too many degrees of separation for anything John & Esther do to affect the JB&M family. Most general Duggar fans are actually a lot more liberal than the Duggars themselves, and would be a lot more used to seeing and accepting divorce. Even other fundie/ATI families who would be inclined to judge Esther for leaving John already see the Duggars as WAY too worldly, and are very unlikely to tune in to the show.

Anna's sister already had a premarital sexual relationship, resulting in a baby out of wedlock. That is way more scandalous than a wife taking her children and leaving her husband, and most of the show's fans don't even know about that, or think it has any bearing on the Duggars themselves. Susanna even appeared on the show before, while Esther never has. Sub-saharan Africa can be a quite dangerous place for a woman facing near-constant pregnancy and a bunch of small children who aren't used to living there, which we've all observed here. That could easily be an excuse as to why Esther and the kids couldn't stay in Zambia with John, and then no one will even give it a second thought.

[Ellimenopy]

Honestly, I can't imagine any of that happening. There are too many degrees of separation for anything John & Esther do to affect the JB&M family. Most general Duggar fans are actually a lot more liberal than the Duggars themselves, and would be a lot more used to seeing and accepting divorce. Even other fundie/ATI families who would be inclined to judge Esther for leaving John already see the Duggars as WAY too worldly, and are very unlikely to tune in to the show.

Anna's sister already had a premarital sexual relationship, resulting in a baby out of wedlock. That is way more scandalous than a wife taking her children and leaving her husband, and most of the show's fans don't even know about that, or think it has any bearing on the Duggars themselves. Susanna even appeared on the show before, while Esther never has. Sub-saharan Africa can be a quite dangerous place for a woman facing near-constant pregnancy and a bunch of small children who aren't used to living there, which we've all observed here. That could easily be an excuse as to why Esther and the kids couldn't stay in Zambia with John, and then no one will even give it a second thought.

Yes, that's what I meant - it's pretty obvious why Esther wouldn't want to be there. I'm not sure it'd be scandalous for the Duggars because I'm not sure that they still see John and Esther as sharing their same faith anymore. They don't follow ATI and therefore I'm not sure that they Duggars would see leaving John in a mess of his own making as "abandoning" his headship. I'm not even talking about divorce - I'm pretty sure they wouldn't support that. But giving Esther power to stay in the US? I think they could get behind it, if it was initiated by Esther.

[Palimpsest]

I'm not so sure. First, I think there is a snowball's chance in hell that Esther will ever leave John. Sadly.

However, if things should really go down the tubes in Zambia and Esther decides to protect her children from John's shennanigan's -- the most that will happen is that they will have a very quiet and discrete separation. Her family (perhaps including Josh and Anna) probably citing scripture to prove that John is a false prophet will rally round to bring Esther home on "furlough" with the kids. A few Keller friends and church members will make donations to help support them. John will continue to grandstand in Zambia. Esther would not be encouraged to file for divorce by her family. Quite the opposite. She'll be told to stay married and keep praying that he'll return to the fold.

Now if John decided to claim that Esther has been stolen away by her "false Christian" family and tried to divorce her publically citing abandonment and to get custody of the kids -- why then there would be a much bigger stink in Fundieland. The Kellers have connections and ATI/IBLP would try to crush the apostate John to avoid the scandal.

It still won't have a massive impact with the fan-base, most of whom are probably just Fundie-lite at best. Or anywhere else even if the tabloid press gets hold of the story. There is a scandal a minute with TMZ and RoL and most of them are over-blown.

We are all dedicated fundie watchers here and I think we tend to forget that not many people give a shit about the Duggars. Or the Kellers because most people probably don't even Anna's maiden name. TLC is a minor cable channel although the Duggars do hit the headlines occasionally -- and are clever at marketing themselves to People or other rags. The vast majority of "fans" might give a passing snark about Duggars not kissing until the wedding day, or leg-hump about cute baby Dilly, but that's about it.

Frankly, I can see bigger headlines and many more legs for the story "Duggar Relations Tragic End: Family of 10 Eaten By Crocodiles During Baptism" than I can for "Duggar Sister-in-law's Scandalous Divorce." I don't think most people will even blink and it won't tarnish Josh Duggar's image. Josh didn't lose his job at FRC over his connection with ATI when the Bill Gothard scandal hit the national press. That was juicy and should have tarnished the Duggar image. But they got away scot free and TLC is still happily filming them.

[Palimpsest]

They might film it. Seriously.

Did they say so? I missed that. Yippee! :popcorn:

[slickcat79]

Did they say so? I missed that. Yippee! :popcorn:

No, they didn't say so. Just driving the ISB, based on how much John loves to film himself, and how much his father keeps trying to make John happen.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if John will speak in his Zambian accent when he comes back. Or if Daddy Shrader has told him to drop that. John hates being controlled, but he has to know that he can't make his father mad or he will have absolutely no support.

[Palimpsest]

No, they didn't say so. Just driving the ISB, based on how much John loves to film himself, and how much his father keeps trying to make John happen.

Well, if they do film it and put up the video I'm willing to lose a few more of my remaining brain cells to the cause and watch it.

John's Measure-Treasure-Pleasure video sermon was awful. Do I just have a filthy mind or would that be a great title for a porno movie?

[Palimpsest]

I wonder if John will speak in his Zambian accent when he comes back. Or if Daddy Shrader has told him to drop that. John hates being controlled, but he has to know that he can't make his father mad or he will have absolutely no support.

I suspect that Daddy Shrader's purse strings are the only things that can exert any control over John these days. Daddy may clamp down on John this time. His own reputation is on the line.

[formergothardite]

If John continues down the path he is going, alienating everyone and constantly wanting new, expensive stuff, Daddy Shrader's church is going to get tired of it. He knows it and I really think he is going to do his best to keep John on the narrow path of IFB righteousness. His Dad is the only person who can control him and, while that is going to make John mad, he does love money, so he will probably tolerate it.

And I sooooooooo hope they video John's sermon. I will watch that.

[gustava]

Well, if they do film it and put up the video I'm willing to lose a few more of my remaining brain cells to the cause and watch it.

John's Measure-Treasure-Pleasure video sermon was awful. Do I just have a filthy mind or would that be a great title for a porno movie?

:handsex:

[Mitz_]

I wonder if John will speak in his Zambian accent when he comes back. Or if Daddy Shrader has told him to drop that. John hates being controlled, but he has to know that he can't make his father mad or he will have absolutely no support.

Omg what was he thinking when he did that? It was hilarious and embarrassing all at the same time.

[Cartmann99]

John's Measure-Treasure-Pleasure video sermon was awful. Do I just have a filthy mind or would that be a great title for a porno movie?

When he said "pleasure", I was afraid that he was gonna side-hug his wife and wiggle his eyebrows like Groucho Marx.

I'm glad he didn't embarrass her like that.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

Please pass on my thanks to your mother for the info, formergothardite.

Yep, I think John (only John) is being brought back to Katy for some discipling disciplining by Daddy. And for a last desperate attempt to drum up more funding, under the guise of defensing himself against Satan. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that "Sending Service!"

Apparently you are correct according to source. He/she isn't answering questions but has let me know you are on the right path. And also because of his terminally ill sister Sarah. So tragic she is a young Mum who has been fighting terminal cancers for a few years now.