Bringing Up Bates & Other Bates Family Doings

[formergothardite]

I'm in the US and I was able to join a credit union just by walking in and saying "I want to open an account". I didn't need to be employed by anyone or be related to anyone who was employed by someone. It was no different than walking into a bank.

As far as Forrest is concerned, didn't he also come up with some really innovative war tactics that we still use today?? I'm not excusing his bad actions at all, but I do wonder if they discuss him in that sense. It still doesn't make it okay to have a shrine in your house to him, though.

Oh, I'm sure they do sing his praises when it came to his war tactics. But they probably leave out or sugar coat the horrific things he did with those war tactics. I'm suspect that Gil and Kelly are the type to sing the praises of the Confederacy and that is why they worship him.

Have they apologized for their shrine to him? I know they pulled the picture the second people started questioning them, but I never saw them admit that they were wrong for putting it up.

[singsingsing]

Okay, keep in mind this is just me going off my memory, so I'm not saying this is 100% how it happened, but this is what I recall:

People began to confront Kelly over the Nathan Bedford Forrest thing. Her explanation was quite literally that, oops! They just honestly hadn't known about all the horrible things he'd done - that the picture had come from... a friend? A thrift store with a collection of Southern memorabilia? Something like that, and they'd put it up because it fit with their decorating theme. I can't remember if she said she took it down - I want to say she did, but I'm not sure.

I'm not an American, I don't know anything about Nathan Bedford Forrest outside of what I've heard on FJ, so I have no idea how well-known he is, or how obvious certain views of his would be. I do know that Kelly has close family members who are black who she seems to value and love, and I have a hard time believing she would knowingly have a shrine to a man who would've endorsed their murder in her home. I also know that this is the woman who professed to be a Biblical literalist and a deeply committed Christian, who named her daughter after a character in the Bible without actually knowing what that character was like.

I think that Kelly does have the capacity for deep thought, she has shown that, but with her it seems to be provoked when she's confronted with the idea that she may have screwed up. She doesn't think deeply in advance, only after the damage is done. Of course, not knowing the woman, that's only my impression.

[Firiel]

Okay, keep in mind this is just me going off my memory, so I'm not saying this is 100% how it happened, but this is what I recall:

People began to confront Kelly over the Nathan Bedford Forrest thing. Her explanation was quite literally that, oops! They just honestly hadn't known about all the horrible things he'd done - that the picture had come from... a friend? A thrift store with a collection of Southern memorabilia? Something like that, and they'd put it up because it fit with their decorating theme. I can't remember if she said she took it down - I want to say she did, but I'm not sure.

I'm not an American, I don't know anything about Nathan Bedford Forrest outside of what I've heard on FJ, so I have no idea how well-known he is, or how obvious certain views of his would be. I do know that Kelly has close family members who are black who she seems to value and love, and I have a hard time believing she would knowingly have a shrine to a man who would've endorsed their murder in her home. I also know that this is the woman who professed to be a Biblical literalist and a deeply committed Christian, who named her daughter after a character in the Bible without actually knowing what that character was like.

I think that Kelly does have the capacity for deep thought, she has shown that, but with her it seems to be provoked when she's confronted with the idea that she may have screwed up. She doesn't think deeply in advance, only after the damage is done. Of course, not knowing the woman, that's only my impression.

I'm American and didn't know who he was until FJ. But a quick Wikipedia search reveals that the Bates are far from the only family in the South that idolizes him. I think it's a reasonable theory that they didn't much about his sinister beliefs.

[formergothardite]

Okay, keep in mind this is just me going off my memory, so I'm not saying this is 100% how it happened, but this is what I recall:

People began to confront Kelly over the Nathan Bedford Forrest thing. Her explanation was quite literally that, oops! They just honestly hadn't known about all the horrible things he'd done - that the picture had come from... a friend? A thrift store with a collection of Southern memorabilia? Something like that, and they'd put it up because it fit with their decorating theme. I can't remember if she said she took it down - I want to say she did, but I'm not sure.

I'm not an American, I don't know anything about Nathan Bedford Forrest outside of what I've heard on FJ, so I have no idea how well-known he is, or how obvious certain views of his would be. I do know that Kelly has close family members who are black who she seems to value and love, and I have a hard time believing she would knowingly have a shrine to a man who would've endorsed their murder in her home. I also know that this is the woman who professed to be a Biblical literalist and a deeply committed Christian, who named her daughter after a character in the Bible without actually knowing what that character was like.

I think that Kelly does have the capacity for deep thought, she has shown that, but with her it seems to be provoked when she's confronted with the idea that she may have screwed up. She doesn't think deeply in advance, only after the damage is done. Of course, not knowing the woman, that's only my impression.

I guess Kelly really could have been completely ignorant about him, but since originally they just pulled the picture and did not allow comments that provided facts about Bedford, I can't help but wonder if her claiming it was an oops! accident is just another way they are learning what they should and should not make public about their beliefs. Kelly especially is very media savvy and knows what to say and not say. It just seems like if it was truly an accident she would have responded fairly fast and not just pulled the picture and kept deleting comments that asked about it.

ETA: I think that it is harder to buy the Oops! when I looked up the past discussions on the subject and found a blog that had the picture Kelly pulled. The other person they had in their "Patriot Room" was also a Confederate. And apparently Kelly was asked about it a great deal and refused to address it(I guess until recently).

[neat]

Lawson apparently has a new song entitled "I thought I had problems"....... and yep, if you thought it was about his mission trips and how shocked he was by how poor people are, you are 100% correct.....

http://instagram.com/p/yanMTcMbhY/?modal=true

http://instagram.com/p/yanpGgMbiT/?modal=true

[Georgiana]

If you've never encountered it before, the Lost Cause mentality and other romanticizing of the antebellum and Confederate South can be pretty strong in some communities. Not every Southerner has a rosy view of the Confederacy, but there are those that do. And those that do often have a revised version of events and believe that many of the worst reports of the era are either grossly exaggerated Yankee propaganda or actions that were justified at least in part by the historical context. I'm from an old Southern family, and if you asked my great grandmother about that time period she'd give you a very different account than you would find in a history book, that's for sure.

What I'm saying is, if Kelly grew up in a family or a town where people tended to romanticize and view Confederate Society as the Glorious South, it is entirely possible she was truly not aware of what Forrest did or the extent of what he did. There are multiple memorials to the man in TN, and he's got a sizable legend built up around him that does not really match the historical record.

Sadly, she probably honestly saw him as a noble man who fought for "traditional" values and society in the face of evil. I know more than one person who would give you that view as well.

[MissBitters]

I'm American and didn't know who he was until FJ. But a quick Wikipedia search reveals that the Bates are far from the only family in the South that idolizes him. I think it's a reasonable theory that they didn't much about his sinister beliefs.

I grew up around the same area as the Bates and from my experience there isn't a strong "The South will rise again" mentality or worshiping of Confederate generals. Of course, there are those handful of idiots who do give the rest of us a bad name. East Tennessee was actually very pro-Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War

In other words, please don't think everyone there holds the same values as the Bates! On the bright side, East Tennessee did give the world Dolly Parton. I think is she is a much more positive influence :D

[Firiel]

I grew up around the same area as the Bates and from my experience there isn't a strong "The South will rise again" mentality or worshiping of Confederate generals. Of course, there are those handful of idiots who do give the rest of us a bad name. East Tennessee was actually very pro-Union: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_in_the_American_Civil_War

In other words, please don't think everyone there holds the same values as the Bates! On the bright side, East Tennessee did give the world Dolly Parton. I think is she is a much more positive influence :D

Oh, I don't think you all do! But I couldn't believe all the Bedford monuments and schools that there are according to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathan_Bedford_Forrest

[formergothardite]

If you've never encountered it before, the Lost Cause mentality and other romanticizing of the antebellum and Confederate South can be pretty strong in some communities. Not every Southerner has a rosy view of the Confederacy, but there are those that do. And those that do often have a revised version of events and believe that many of the worst reports of the era are either grossly exaggerated Yankee propaganda or actions that were justified at least in part by the historical context. I'm from an old Southern family, and if you asked my great grandmother about that time period she'd give you a very different account than you would find in a history book, that's for sure.

What I'm saying is, if Kelly grew up in a family or a town where people tended to romanticize and view Confederate Society as the Glorious South, it is entirely possible she was truly not aware of what Forrest did or the extent of what he did. There are multiple memorials to the man in TN, and he's got a sizable legend built up around him that does not really match the historical record.

Sadly, she probably honestly saw him as a noble man who fought for "traditional" values and society in the face of evil. I know more than one person who would give you that view as well.

I'm surrounded by The South Will Rise Again mentality. That why I said that they probably presented him as a godly man who fought for freedom and left out all the icky, bad parts of him. I do think that she had some idea and that it wasn't an Oops! we had no clue. I think that their initial reaction was to pull the picture, ignore all the comments and hope that people would forget. When people didn't forget and they saw it was going to come back to bite them in the ass, she issued an excuse. But I have no doubt they meant for their "Patriot Room" to glorify the old South and the people who fought for the Confederacy. They probably teach their children the version of history where the South was right and the North was wrong and the Confederacy was all about freedom and not slavery.

[LittleOleMe]

I'm pretty certain I know who Nathan Bedford Forrest is bc Forrest Gump's mama named him after him.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I'm a credit union customer as well. But most of us get to join credit unions because of our employment, our relationship to an employment family member, or relationship to the military. Of the top of my head, I can't think of a credit union that self-employed Law Bates would be eligible to join. And I wouldn't be surprised if your checking account doesn't have a minimum level requirement.

My point is, Lawson, who does lawncare for a living, probably doesn't have the ability right now to earn a lot of interest. I would think that gassing up the truck and paying recording studio fees would be consuming a lot of his earnings.

Not anymore. Most credit unions are open to the public now

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

The downside of many of the credit unions (at least in my area) is that they are smaller. Yes, there is at least 1 national one, but I know people who have issues when they so much as go out of the general area.

If Lawson thinks he might be travelling a lot for work (a safe bet with music), he may be better served with a larger national bank that will have more branches across the country. Nothing is more inconvenient than when you need to visit the bank/ATM/access your money and are unable to do so.

You'd think the rise of the digital age, credit cards and such would have solved this, but as someone who travels to Canada from the US frequently, the struggle can still be very real.

If you belong to a credit union, you can bank at any credit union anywhere in the country. That's how they get away with "once a member always a member, even if you move."

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

Am I the only one who wouldn't dream of charging interest on a loan to/ from a family member :shock:

I mean, I know you all think money dances are tacky, but charging interest to a sibling ? -- the only times that would make sense to me is 1) if it was such a huge amount that it would have been invested in something that would be making a lot of money. Or 2) if the money borrowed was put on a credit card --- then of course it would make sense to pay the interest being charged.

I think it would be nice if someone volunteered it, but it can't imagine requiring it otherwise.

My family constantly borrows money from each other. No one charges any interest. The person borrowing just pays it back whenever they can. Or they do something else to work it off.

[singsingsing]

I'm surrounded by The South Will Rise Again mentality. That why I said that they probably presented him as a godly man who fought for freedom and left out all the icky, bad parts of him. I do think that she had some idea and that it wasn't an Oops! we had no clue. I think that their initial reaction was to pull the picture, ignore all the comments and hope that people would forget. When people didn't forget and they saw it was going to come back to bite them in the ass, she issued an excuse. But I have no doubt they meant for their "Patriot Room" to glorify the old South and the people who fought for the Confederacy. They probably teach their children the version of history where the South was right and the North was wrong and the Confederacy was all about freedom and not slavery.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was a combination - like they weren't as ignorant about the whole thing as they claimed, but it was an 'oops' in the sense that they just didn't put much thought into it. Like they're not sitting around worshiping the KKK, but they still probably have certain beliefs regarding the Confederacy and so on that they know they need to gloss over.

I get the same sort of impression when she talks about letting her adult children make their own rules. I do think she's telling the truth, but I also think it's harder for her than she lets on when her kids do things like kissing before they're married or wearing jeans. She's not lying, per se, but she glosses over the negativity.

[GeoBQn]

I remember one of the first times that the Bates family was featured on the Duggars' show, they showed a family portrait in which Michael appeared to be wearing a Confederate flag vest.

[calimojo]

How much money can Lawson possibly be making from mowing lawns? I have read on here that he loaned Gil money several times, helped one or two of his brothers buy a car and paid tuition for Erin at CC? That seems like a lot of money from this business, especially since he probably travels a lot for his music career. And, lawn care is seasonal. So he would only make money from about March through maybe October/November, depending on the growing season in TN.

If he is making enough money from that to do all those things, I am pretty impressed. Does he have employees who work under him? Does he do all the mowing himself? Do they have corporate contracts, or are they just mowing the lawns of sweet little old ladies who have no one to help them?

[eh02]

How much money can Lawson possibly be making from mowing lawns? I have read on here that he loaned Gil money several times, helped one or two of his brothers buy a car and paid tuition for Erin at CC? That seems like a lot of money from this business, especially since he probably travels a lot for his music career. And, lawn care is seasonal. So he would only make money from about March through maybe October/November, depending on the growing season in TN.

If he is making enough money from that to do all those things, I am pretty impressed. Does he have employees who work under him? Does he do all the mowing himself? Do they have corporate contracts, or are they just mowing the lawns of sweet little old ladies who have no one to help them?

It's not like he's paying his own rent. I would assume he has a car as an expense, but that might be it for his expenses. And he'll probably be making more from his awful music now that the Duggars are shilling it on IG :roll:

I kind of wonder if he uses the financial help as leverage. I can't pretend I particularly like Lawson - I think he's got an irritating attitude, even as fundie men go. He seems to think very highly of himself. I would not be shocked if he just loved holding it over everyone's heads that they owed him money.

I would assume Erin paid for a good chunk of her college herself, too. I know someone who teaches piano who actually makes pretty good money. Of course, it takes time and you need to build up a good client base, but since she was living at home and also presumably had no other bills, I think she could have made a decent contribution. Doesn't she also sell CDs of her piano? I'm sure that's not a huge source of income, but I could see other fundies buying it since their music options are...limited.

[Mama Mia]

How much money can Lawson possibly be making from mowing lawns? I have read on here that he loaned Gil money several times, helped one or two of his brothers buy a car and paid tuition for Erin at CC? That seems like a lot of money from this business, especially since he probably travels a lot for his music career. And, lawn care is seasonal. So he would only make money from about March through maybe October/November, depending on the growing season in TN.

If he is making enough money from that to do all those things, I am pretty impressed. Does he have employees who work under him? Does he do all the mowing himself? Do they have corporate contracts, or are they just mowing the lawns of sweet little old ladies who have no one to help them?

That kind of work can be very lucrative. Sometimes it can be what you think of -- one guy with a law mower doing a small front yard and maybe a little weeding, raking. Or it can be a crew with a ride on mower and tools mowing acreage, clearing brush and general clean up. For a tiny job like mowing a small front yard every couple of weeks someone might only make $20 --- but can easily knock out 3 yards on the same block in under an hour. Bigger jobs can run several hundred dollars and require help -- but a crew can complete 2 or 3 in a day. Really large jobs where they are also planting , root tilling, hauling debris etc on large properties can run into the thousands. Lots more time and expenses going out of course . But people can make a living.

[calimojo]

Does Lawson have a crew? Is he a "boss"? Instead of handing out money to the family, he should hire some of the boys and pay them.

I am not snarking here, as I am really impressed if Lawson has been able to hire and run a crew of yard workers, and earn enough money to pay for cars, college and groceries for the family. He is very young to have done all that. He must be, unlike his dad, a very hard worker.

[formergothardite]

I wonder if Lawson's work ethic comes from being embarrassed at having to grow up with a dad who begged for a living and deciding he never wanted to be anything like his father.

I do believe Michael was seen wearing a Confederate Flag vest. I still think that if they were truly surprised to discover they were glorifying a person like NFB they would have reacted differently. A more interesting question for Kelly is why their Patriot room only sang the praises of Confederates. Is she going to pass that off as an "Oops!" too? And who have they replaced NFB with?

[Mama Mia]

Does Lawson have a crew? Is he a "boss"? Instead of handing out money to the family, he should hire some of the boys and pay them.

I am not snarking here, as I am really impressed if Lawson has been able to hire and run a crew of yard workers, and earn enough money to pay for cars, college and groceries for the family. He is very young to have done all that. He must be, unlike his dad, a very hard worker.

I have a couple relatives who do this sort of thing. Even without a crew landscaping, lawn care, yard clean-up, etc...can bring in a decent amount of money if the guy gets a good client base. It does take a hard worker of course, and just as importantly with those kinds of jobs -- the person has to stay on top of balancing lots and lots of different jobs, save money for off -times etc. For Lawson, with his interest in A musical career it's probably ideal. Especially while he doesn't have a horde of kids to take care of. Not a lot of prep-work to do when you aren't working and can go on gigs if they come up by just juggling /modifying when he works or having one of his brothers take over for a bit.

Tree work actually pays extremely well ---- but it would be hard for any job to pay enough to support that many people. And it sounds like from what I read here that Gil doesn't put much effort into it? I wonder if Kelly does any office work for the tree business? I don't recall them ever mentioning it -- but I'm not a close Bates follower. Usually these kinds of businesses it seems like usually the wife does the paperwork end of the job to help out ----- even Michelle has her real estate license.

[formergothardite]

Since Gil teaches other ATI fathers how to raise a billion children without having to have a steady income, I don't really think he put a huge amount of effort into the tree business. I think that they are trying to make it look like he does on their new show because that is something they have been criticized for, but in reality Gil is just lazy. He reminds me of John Shrader. Didn't he quit a good paying job at Nabisco? I thought I read something about how when he quit his job there they lost the company care and then Praise Jesus! somebody bought them a car. Did I make that up?

[Rebelwife]

This is exactly why I think Lawson will put off marriage for a while and even when he does, will probably practice some form of natural family planning, like charting. He has been the family bank since he started making his own money when he was 13. He has had to buy the family groceries and pay for his sister to go to college bc the one that gave her a free ride wasn't good enough and had to help buy his brother a car. And these are his older siblings! He knows better than most how difficult it is to financially support a mega family. Unfortunately, I think the precedent has already been set in that Bates family for everyone to go to Lawson for loans. That's really going to piss off his wife when she wants to save for something for their own children but can't bc he keeps loaning out money to his siblings bc his parents had more children than they could afford.

That was definitely the case for my grandmother and great aunt. Their families weren't fundy, but they were immigrant Catholics. Those two were the oldest of nine children in a very poor family and were totally expected to help support the family and all their siblings. They would straight up tell you that the reason they waited to have kids and only had two each was because they were stretched so thin helping out their brothers and sisters. My grandmother got married at 21 and waited 14 years - on purpose - to have her first child.

[doubleT]

Seems like I read somewhere (but didn't try to find it now) that Alyssa did the books for the tree business. Or maybe she just did the family finances.

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I wonder if Lawson's work ethic comes from being embarrassed at having to grow up with a dad who begged for a living and deciding he never wanted to be anything like his father.

I do believe Michael was seen wearing a Confederate Flag vest. I still think that if they were truly surprised to discover they were glorifying a person like NFB they would have reacted differently. A more interesting question for Kelly is why their Patriot room only sang the praises of Confederates. Is she going to pass that off as an "Oops!" too? And who have they replaced NFB with?

Is there a photo of Michal wearing the Stars & Bars? Nathan Bedford Forest--fine patriot. I'm sure Stonewall and Robert E. Lee are there too--both we devout Christians.