Bringing Up Bates & Other Bates Family Doings

[formergothardite]

If you go to the IBLP and look under Embassy you can find all the lectures they do for the cult.

I have been very nice when I ask Kelly questions because I know that they like to view former students who speak out against ATI and rebellious, so I did my very best to show that I was polite and respectful. I have had absolutely no luck with Kelly and I honestly think that Kelly knows that addressing these things would open them up to being criticized and will ruin the wholesome image they are going for.

1. I have asked about her thoughts in regards to the accusations against Bill Gothard.

2. When she was discussing adoption I provided direct quotes from Bill's teachings on the subject and asked if she and Gil agreed with them.

3. I asked about modesty standards for her sons and how wearing wet t-shirts that clung tightly to the body was modest.

4. I have asked her thoughts on why so many former ATI students view being raised in IBLP/ATI has harmful and cult-like.

5. I have asked her thoughts on the numerous former ATI students who grew up in mega-families and speak out about how this was not a good way to be raised because it is virtually impossible for parents to care for that many children and homeschool them so that they get a good education.

I have received no responses.

[16strong]

I find it so interesting that the Duggars and Bates are always on the defensive when it comes to ATI-related things, even though it is a huge part of their lives. For crissakes, Gil is ON THE DAMN BOARD! How the hell are you going to be afraid and ashamed to let anyone know you belong to an organization when you are on the board? Most women I know have more balls than Jim Bob and Gil combined.

And you know what I think this looks like? It looks a lot like the modern-day clan. Many of the KKK's members hide their connections because they know their beliefs are harmful to others. If they weren't doing anything wrong, they'd have nothing to hide.

[calimojo]

I almost think it is worse the way they sort of hide it, or ignore it. Even though I think the whole organization is wrong, I would respect them more if they just came out and said, Yes, I am on the board and I don't give a fig about the allegations against brother Got-Hard

Well, maybe not...

[RosyDaisy]

I think Kelly's silence when asked about their connections to ATI/IBLP/Gothard speaks volumes. She won't answer no matter how sweet and polite anybody asks.

[LittleOleMe]

Gil could just say "I'm on the BoD and I am aware of the allegations against Gothard. Until there is a guilty verdict, he is presumed innocent in this great country of ours. I would also like to point out that one man does not define an entire organization. There are many people who work tirelessly to make this operation work." See how easy that was? And I'm typing this up as I walk out the door. I don't even care about it makes him look bc he doesn't even care. Why not just say something simple and easy like that?? It would clear up a lot of things.

[calimojo]

I think Kelly's silence when asked about their connections to ATI/IBLP/Gothard speaks volumes. She won't answer no matter how sweet and polite anybody asks.

then this is what needs to be picked up by the media who take their stories from us. And letters could be written to UP TV to ask that. Clearly UP is not a purely QF network as they have lots of shows with women working, wearing pants and even romance with kissing and front hugging on that network.

So if someone was clever enough to find out who we should write to, then people could write to UP asking why they haven't addressed this and why they have a show on their network where the cast seem to support a sexual predator.

[calimojo]

then this is what needs to be picked up by the media who take their stories from us. And letters could be written to UP TV to ask that. Clearly UP is not a purely QF network as they have lots of shows with women working, wearing pants and even romance with kissing and front hugging on that network.

So if someone was clever enough to find out who we should write to, then people could write to UP asking why they haven't addressed this and why they have a show on their network where the cast seem to support a sexual predator.

We need to get the author who wrote the book "Going Clear" about Scientology to do a similar expose of Quiverfull, Gothard, Phillips, etc.

[eh02]

Gil might have conditions of his board position that he cannot say anything that hasn't been approved, at risk of losing his job. I'm not defending it, but just saying it is possible that the responses he and Kelly give aren't necessarily "their own."

[formergothardite]

IBLP and ATI wants to pass as just a Christian organization and a homeschool curriculum. There is no way that Kelly and Gil are going to open the cult or themselves up to scrutiny by mentioning either program. Just a quick google search will make it clear that they are members of a dangerous cult and that Gil sided with a guy who has decades of sexual harassment accusations against him. That would rather ruin the wholesome Christian image they are going for.

From what I can tell board members aren't getting paid, so if Gil and Kelly really disagreed with Bill they could walk away. Even if they were getting paid, if they truly disagreed with Gothard's teachings they would walk away from the money and do the right thing. I think the real thing is, they agree with him.

Plus Bill admitted that he brought select teens to work with him based on their outward appearances and that he crossed boundaries with how he touched the teen girls that worked with him.

This is from a letter Bill wrote about it:

This emphasis on outward appearance was also manifested by bringing selected young people to serve at the Headquarters and causing others to feel rejected and offended by my favoritism. My actions of holding of hands, hugs, and touching of feet or hair with young ladies crossed the boundaries of discretion and were wrong. They demonstrated a double-standard and violated a trust

[LittleOleMe]

IBLP and ATI wants to pass as just a Christian organization and a homeschool curriculum. There is no way that Kelly and Gil are going to open the cult or themselves up to scrutiny by mentioning either program. Just a quick google search will make it clear that they are members of a dangerous cult and that Gil sided with a guy who has decades of sexual harassment accusations against him. That would rather ruin the wholesome Christian image they are going for.

From what I can tell board members aren't getting paid, so if Gil and Kelly really disagreed with Bill they could walk away. Even if they were getting paid, if they truly disagreed with Gothard's teachings they would walk away from the money and do the right thing. I think the real thing is, they agree with him.

Plus Bill admitted that he brought select teens to work with him based on their outward appearances and that he crossed boundaries with how he touched the teen girls that worked with him.

This is from a letter Bill wrote about it:

I realize we're talking about fucked up people here, but I don't understand how anyone can think Gothard did nothing wrong, especially a man who has several daughters who - at least in my opinion - would be "worthy" enough Gothard's attention. (I think I have to go take a thousand showers now just for even typing that statement) I don't understand how people are not up in arms about this. Why aren't the fathers angry that their daughters virtue is now soiled? This is 2015 in the USA. How do we still have people who are so fucking backwards that they actually believe something like this would be the fault of the teenaged girl who has the maturity level and mental capacity of a five year old due to her sheltered upbringing and lack of real education??? I just don't understand this at all. It makes zero sense to me. Why aren't the brothers speaking out? Or the mothers speaking out? Why is every single media outlet not even interested in this story? This is what will sell magazines and get people watching tv. Not rumors from years ago that didn't even matter then.

[formergothardite]

It is amazing the power a cult leader has over people. I don't have time to scroll through the eleventy million comments on RG, but there is an ATI father commenting who saw his own daughters being treated poorly by Gothard and yet he found a way to justify it in his mind.

[whoviana]

To formergothardite: I really am curious. How much slack am I supposed to cut to supposedly able minded, grown up people like the one that you mention, and to each and every one of the adults that allow themselves and the ones depending on them being subjected to or involved in the deeds of a dangerous and abusive cult? I mean your name suggests that you are a refugee of this cult. You did it. I read your posts because you're trying to educate people on the subject.

I'm feeling like less of a person for not cutting these horrible, brainwashed idiots and their agenda enough slack. There must be a time where people have to be look at as separate entities and being made responsible for what they're doing, saying and how they are acting.

[formergothardite]

To formergothardite: I really am curious. How much slack am I supposed to cut to supposedly able minded, grown up people like the one that you mention, and to each and every one of the adults that allow themselves and the ones depending on them being subjected to or involved in the deeds of a dangerous and abusive cult? I mean your name suggests that you are a refugee of this cult. You did it. I read your posts because you're trying to educate people on the subject.

I'm feeling like less of a person for not cutting these horrible, brainwashed idiots and their agenda enough slack. There must be a time where people have to be look at as separate entities and being made responsible for what they're doing, saying and how they are acting.

People like Gil and Kelly? I cut them no slack. None. They guy who found ways to justify the way Gothard treated his daughters? Also none. My parents. Nope, not a bit of slack. Granted when they joined the information about Gothard was not well known and they had no clue until recently that any of that was going on. But even my mother now admits that they ignored red flags and joined a cult because they thought it would give them kids that never rebelled.

I do have a tendency to cut people who were raised in ATI, who have been brainwashed and beaten, often since birth, and who know nothing but ATI/IBLP some slack. But people like Gil and Kelly, no I don't cut them any. They know that this is all wrong because they try to hide it. But they agree with Bill and his teachings and pick him over doing the right thing.

[whoviana]

Hard to say anything esp. that you were subjected to some godforsaken "training" too instead of being allowed to get in trouble like teens do, just shakes my head. A few conflicts versus abuse, no words. But thanks for the answer.

[eh02]

Can someone fill me in on the extent was of Gothard's abuse allegations? I feel gross even thinking about this, but exactly how explicitly sexual was his contact with the girls? Have there been accusations of worse things than he mentioned in the statement (touching hair/feet etc)? Obviously, those things alone are still TOTALLY inappropriate, but is there anything else he denied?

I do not at all want to minimize what any of the victims went through, because IMO it is a very black and white designation and is clearly abuse. I just think it's an unfortunate reality that in many situations, people are quick to label this behavior as "weird" and won't accept that it is MOLESTATION.

I remember being a kid and having certain adults that just always made me very uncomfortable. Giving you attention, hugs, or sitting you on their lap when you didn't want it. And it was VERY socially acceptable for your parents to tell you to suck it up and give them a hug. It didn't matter if it was a total stranger you'd never met before - go sit on their lap and give them a hug and a kiss!

It is VERY unsettling to not be in control of your own boundaries, even as a child. You're told that it doesn't matter if you feel uncomfortable, that you should be nice and do what the other person wants because you might hurt their feelings. Kids are told not to let anyone touch their genitals, but what about other touching or attention they do not want? It is dangerous, especially for girls growing up with IBLP who are taught to be submissive in all circumstances.

I get the impression that people in IBLP see Gothard as "just a weird creep" and not a very intentional, methodical predator, unfortunately.

[formergothardite]

Yes, he has been accused of much worse than just rubbing his feet up teen girls' skirts. There is a story on RG about it. I can find it in a bit.

[nelliebelle1197]

From upthread- I am finally watching the ep. Lawson mows lawns from the looks of it. He said pretty clearly he mows, not landscapes. Trace, I think, notes clearly that Lawson kills grass, not grows it.

I think Lawson is kinda hot :embarrassed: .

[RosyDaisy]

I think Lawson is kinda hot :embarrassed: .

That's what my oldest niece said. Then she said, shit, he opened his mouth....LOL!!!

[ILoveJellybeans]

Can someone fill me in on the extent was of Gothard's abuse allegations? I feel gross even thinking about this, but exactly how explicitly sexual was his contact with the girls? Have there been accusations of worse things than he mentioned in the statement (touching hair/feet etc)? Obviously, those things alone are still TOTALLY inappropriate, but is there anything else he denied?

I do not at all want to minimize what any of the victims went through, because IMO it is a very black and white designation and is clearly abuse. I just think it's an unfortunate reality that in many situations, people are quick to label this behavior as "weird" and won't accept that it is MOLESTATION.

I remember being a kid and having certain adults that just always made me very uncomfortable. Giving you attention, hugs, or sitting you on their lap when you didn't want it. And it was VERY socially acceptable for your parents to tell you to suck it up and give them a hug. It didn't matter if it was a total stranger you'd never met before - go sit on their lap and give them a hug and a kiss!

It is VERY unsettling to not be in control of your own boundaries, even as a child. You're told that it doesn't matter if you feel uncomfortable, that you should be nice and do what the other person wants because you might hurt their feelings. Kids are told not to let anyone touch their genitals, but what about other touching or attention they do not want? It is dangerous, especially for girls growing up with IBLP who are taught to be submissive in all circumstances.

I get the impression that people in IBLP see Gothard as "just a weird creep" and not a very intentional, methodical predator, unfortunately.

In one of the stories on Recovering Grace, he kissed one of these girls, and another reported that he put his hand on her leg and then moved up her skirt. Cant remember whether it was the same girl each time who reported that though. There is also stories of him getting the girls alone and then asking them personal questions about their sex lives/crushes and asking for a lot od detail.

[formergothardite]

If I remember correctly the girl he did the most to was a girl who had been molested by her father and Bill knew about it and told her she needed to just forgive him. I am pretty sure there are several cases of girls who had been molested turning to Gothard and him not doing anything about the abuse.

[nelliebelle1197]

If I remember correctly the girl he did the most to was a girl who had been molested by her father and Bill knew about it and told her she needed to just forgive him. I am pretty sure there are several cases of girls who had been molested turning to Gothard and him not doing anything about the abuse.

There was also the one he strung along, telling her that he wanted to marry her. She was a teen and he was in his 50s, if I recall. He really messed with her head and made her feelings an awful person. There was fondling and touching there too. That was the late 80s or early 90s.

If people want info on what Gil and Kelly Bates really are and what they are protecting, just go to Recovering Grace and read the articles. The articles are categorized together and easy to find

[pega127]

Lawson apparently has a new song entitled "I thought I had problems"....... and yep, if you thought it was about his mission trips and how shocked he was by how poor people are, you are 100% correct.....

http://instagram.com/p/yanMTcMbhY/?modal=true

http://instagram.com/p/yanpGgMbiT/?modal=true

I found it interesting the Bateses do not require the " accountability buddy" like their friends, the Duggars for Lawson. How nice that he could travel with just the film crew to pursue his dream! Good luck Lawson!

[IReallyAmHopewell]

I found it interesting the Bateses do not require the " accountability buddy" like their friends, the Duggars for Lawson. How nice that he could travel with just the film crew to pursue his dream! Good luck Lawson!

Let's see....Erin had to take a buddy to college........ I'm betting there was some accountability somehow!

[nolongerIFBx]

If I remember correctly the girl he did the most to was a girl who had been molested by her father and Bill knew about it and told her she needed to just forgive him. I am pretty sure there are several cases of girls who had been molested turning to Gothard and him not doing anything about the abuse.

Both BG and Jack Schaap later tried to excuse their actions toward their victims (BG specifically with Charlotte; JS only has one known victim) by saying that they had already been abused/sexually active so it wasn't that bad. I am a Christian and I do believe that God calls us to abstinence before marriage but I completely disagree that anyone who isn't abstinent is soiled or ruined and because the purity movement teaches males and females that they are worth less if they are not virgins, predators like JS and BG are able to rationalize their abuse. It makes me so sick. JS actually used that as a defense to try to get his sentence reduced! that is wasn't that bad because she wasn't a virgin! :evil: I wrote my paper in one of my writing intensive classes on how the language of the purity movement allows predators to rationalize their actions.

[nelliebelle1197]

I found it interesting the Bateses do not require the " accountability buddy" like their friends, the Duggars for Lawson. How nice that he could travel with just the film crew to pursue his dream! Good luck Lawson!

We don't know that. One of the older boys might have been there but just not filmed.