How Long Before Jill Starts to Realize All She's Missed?

[SassyPants]

Considering Jill is practically an Arkansas celebrity, I have a feeling Christian women who live in her area would be clawing at her feet for her to be their midwife and probably would be more accommodating than most. I mean, she wouldn't be the first woman with a baby to work, she'd be able to decide how many clients to take on, and if she worked out of her home, it wouldn't be THAT hard to care for her own baby too, especially considering her sisters live nearby and her husband would be able to take care of the baby in non-office hours.

I don't know if Jill can actually practice at all independently since obviously whatever certification she is getting is not the same as the route most midwives take (RN at minimum, and usually a graduate degree too), but it is a "step up" from a doula at least. Doulas are usually the ones who are doing the back rubs and stuff like that, and they rarely perform any real clinical tasks. It would be great if Jill actually got her RN in the future. I'm keeping my hopes up...

The one thing that Jill has going for her is a large extended family, that has been trained to help one another. As a recently retired nurse, I'm not seeing Jill being anything other than a helper. The time and energy that would be required to get where she needs to be is substantial. NOW (and the past 8 months) would have been the time for Jill to be focused on such and she choose to do other things. It will get harder once baby boy arrives. If wedding planning, marriage and a pregnancy have been detractions, a baby is in a whole other realm, IMO-

Most people get set up first. My own daughter just had a baby. She is 27, has her Masters and has been working for 5 years. Her husband is 36 and has had the same job for 14 years. They own a home and are very settled.

[SassyPants]

It looks like there is a difference between a CPM and LLM. Per the "Rules and Regulations for Governing the Practice of Lay Midwifery in Arkansas" published by Arkansas Department of Health, "All applicants for licensure in Arkansas must follow procedures for Regular License. Midwives holding a Certified Professional Midwife certificate through the North American Registry of Midwives may apply for a Lay Midwife license.

The CPM credential will be considered equivalent to the practical experience and NARM testing requirement. The Lay Midwife must complete an application, meet all the requirements for education,TB, rubella, and CPR and pass the state regulations test."

I didn't look into it much further, but it appears that your opportunities and what you can legally do with midwife certificate are probably much more limited than what you can do as a licensed midwife.

Jill was on the Lay MW track, IIRC. One time, they did show her studying with Derick. Also, someone here has checked the state's records and Jill has not taken certification exams (I think that was a couple of months ago).

Things could change, but just using some common sense, wouldn't NOW have been the opportune time to get up to speed, IF Jill really intended on becoming and working as a lay MW????

Will it be easier to meet guidelines once the baby is here?

[eh02]

Oh, of course I agree that it will be harder to do whatever certification or job she is interested in as a mom. That goes without saying, and I wish Jill (and all of them...) had the chance to pursue their personal goals before becoming parents. You have your whole life ahead of you to have children, why start so early? I definitely agree that the benefits of waiting a few (or more than a few) extra years to get pregnant outweigh any of the potential "costs." I am finishing up graduate school now and can't fathom having children for several more years, and that's at the absolute bare minimum.

That said, even if it's hard, lots of people do still finish school - even nursing school, medical school and other difficult, time consuming clinical programs - as parents, especially with supportive spouses and extended family. She could do it, if she decided she wanted to. It would be tough, no doubt, but it's possible. I do think Jill is motivated; she's the type who seems to really need to do things that affirm her self worth. She always seemed like she liked to learn and explore, and as much as I think she'd like being a mom, I'm just not totally sold on her being satisfied as a stay at home mom forever. Anyway, even if she didn't get any further degree, she could still continue doing whatever type of midwifery she's working on now. Maybe when/if she had 4, 5, 6... kids it would stop being realistic, but if you were working from home and had help, I think it would be a feasible option. I only say all of this because they've talked about her being a midwife so many times on the show, and they've shown the woman she works with SO often, that I don't think they will just forget about it and let it go. I think they are setting it up to be a plotline, as we know they tend to do...

[SassyPants]

Oh, of course I agree that it will be harder to do whatever certification or job she is interested in as a mom. That goes without saying, and I wish Jill (and all of them...) had the chance to pursue their personal goals before becoming parents. You have your whole life ahead of you to have children, why start so early? I definitely agree that the benefits of waiting a few (or more than a few) extra years to get pregnant outweigh any of the potential "costs." I am finishing up graduate school now and can't fathom having children for several more years, and that's at the absolute bare minimum.

That said, even if it's hard, lots of people do still finish school - even nursing school, medical school and other difficult, time consuming clinical programs - as parents, especially with supportive spouses and extended family. She could do it, if she decided she wanted to. It would be tough, no doubt, but it's possible. I do think Jill is motivated; she's the type who seems to really need to do things that affirm her self worth. She always seemed like she liked to learn and explore, and as much as I think she'd like being a mom, I'm just not totally sold on her being satisfied as a stay at home mom forever. Anyway, even if she didn't get any further degree, she could still continue doing whatever type of midwifery she's working on now. Maybe when/if she had 4, 5, 6... kids it would stop being realistic, but if you were working from home and had help, I think it would be a feasible option. I only say all of this because they've talked about her being a midwife so many times on the show, and they've shown the woman she works with SO often, that I don't think they will just forget about it and let it go. I think they are setting it up to be a plotline, as we know they tend to do...

My nephew's wife had a baby in early summer after having a very rough pregnancy. She also graduated from medical school in May and started her medical residency in August. The difference between this girl and Jill is choice. Most people get to a certain point and they know they have to push on through...it's been taught and is expected both internally and externally. The only thing that Jill has been taught in terms of herself and her worth, is that woman save themselves for 1 man and have lots of babies.

The plot line will undoubtedly extend to the Duggar girls having lots of babies and MWs will be in attendance. Having only an uncertified MW in attendance at one's birth, would be irresponsible to both mom and her baby.

[DuggarsTheEndIsNear]

I don't really think it's fair to judge Jill's interest in schooling/learning based on what she was able to do in her parent's home. I really wouldn't put it past her parents to try to limit the amount of time she spent studying (see all the random times they decided ALL their kids had to go do something only SOME of their kids MIGHT enjoy, and/or parade around so Michelle could say "they all came out of me!"), which would explain her lack of being able to master any subjects. Not to mention, she had at least 3 kids needing her attention (assuming buddy families are strict and no one sought a different buddy family leader), had to help run a household of 21 people, had to entertain (and prepare for) large families on a regular basis, etc. It would be impossible to study even the most basic of ideas in a household like that.

I also don't think it's fair to assume that she's "unqualified to teach homeschooling." Homeschooling requires you to learn along with your kids if you're doing it properly. Even if she wasn't familiar with a topic (which EVERY homeschool parent faces, and many (if not all) "regular" teachers face as well), she could be able to teach it as long as she doesn't follow in her parents' footsteps (referencing the episode where I believe they went hiking and someone asked Jim Bob a question and he half assed answered it without actually giving any type of answer worth having).

I could see Jill leaning away from ATI and going towards better Christian homeschooling options. I don't think she'd give up homeschooling completely, and definitely not a religious education, but I could see her wanting her kids to have a better foundation of knowledge.

[SassyPants]

I do find it interesting that as the adult children move away from JB's home the viewing public is able to see how woefully unprepared they are for life in the real world. IRONIC as JB's has been cramming down our throats for ten years how their system of living and parenting is so superior to others' ways.

And the biggest losers are the kids- JB and M are laughing all the way to the bank.

[Four is Enough]

I do find it interesting that as the adult children move away from JB's home the viewing public is able to see how woefully unprepared they are for life in the real world. IRONIC as JB's has been cramming down our throats for ten years how their system of living and parenting is so superior to others' ways.

And the biggest losers are the kids- JB and M are laughing all the way to the bank.

You certainly have the right of that. It's really difficult to watch the hamstringing of bright young minds. Not just by the Duggars, but by other families as well. They're not prepared to live in the world at all.

[Rainytown]

I'm wondering how many reality checks Jill has already had since the wedding. I think they've been substantial. I wonder what happened the first time Derick listened to popular music in the car or the first time he picked up a book that was not Gothard-approved. Speaking of reality checks, one can only imagine what happened for the first several days they could talk without observation or a chaperone. I'm also wondering what they talk about. Jill isn't well educated. Does he want to discuss the news, current events, or some other topic with her and she knows little to nothing about it?

Jill is out of the parental stranglehold; they can no longer monitor what she does 24 hours a day, especially when TLC was evidently (allegedly) trying to negotiate a spin-off with Jill and Derick. Right now, Jim Boob has to know he needs them more than they need him to stay in TLC's good graces. I'm guessing that Benessa is a huge scandal waiting to happen and they may be getting most of Jim Boob and J-Chelle's attention as a result. I would have LOVED to have been a fly on the wall, though, when JIm Boob and J-Chelle found out Jill was at a "grape festival".

Remember the story about the four oldest daughters "accidentally" drinking alcohol at a party? Um, right. Every time Derick takes her someplace her parents either could not or would not allow her to go, she has experiences that must make her wonder why they were so afraid of things most people take for granted.

[MeRmaiDQueeN]

And the biggest losers are the kids- JB and M are laughing all the way to the bank.

I find that interesting you say that. I've noticed a few times in episodes that Michelle was carrying a coach purse, and I know my purse game wll. That particular bag she had was around 400-500 bucks. Even used its around 120. I find it funny because I remember M'chelle saying that she didn't care about labels or fashions.

[LongDogMom]

Derick has said prior to meeting and marrying Jill that he wanted his son to follow in his foot steps and be Pistol Pete. I've wondered if he knows what he's up against to see that dream through.Just because he and JB were prayer partners doesn't mean that JB showed his full whackadoodleness to Derick.

Also, while in the infatuation-love stage Jill probably appeared thrilled with everything Derick said, and was excited by him having gone to university and been Pistol Pete like his Dad. It's one thing to be happy and excited when you are in love and excited ..Jill probably was hanging off every word Derick said. I mean, this was the first time any man had showed that kind of interest in her. I'm sure she was in seventh heaven at all the attention and thought Derick was perfect in every way. But once the reality of life and a baby kicks in, and as the infatuation part wears off (and hopefully turns into a more mature and comfortable trust and love), she may not just go along with all the things she seemed okay with She may even have expressed a willingness (in a way) while they were courting, nodding and smiling - I can see her doing that and agreeing with everything Derick said. So he may think she's fine with stuff he's mentioned, but actually when the baby is here, she may simply push back against it saying her parents say this or that is wrong or sinful, etc. I guess we'll see once their baby is born. She may revert back to the beliefs she grew up with about not attending school or pursuing a higher education and not be so happy to have her son follow in her husband's footsteps. I hope that she sees that in spite of Derick and his family not following all the Duggar/Gothard rules and beliefs, he clearly grew up to be a good man. And maybe Derick's mother will have some influence as well. I hope so.

As for the whole "wine tasting", my mistake. I remembered something about a festival or wine thing and didn't bother googling to check. It was the annual Tontitown Grape Festival and sponsored by a church and while there is grape stomping and carnival rides, dancing and spaghetti, there's also Holy Mass, so it's not quite the secular wine tasting I had in my mind when I wrote that in my post. Sorry for the confusion everyone!

[Coco]

What Jill has been shown doing is actually what the MW would be doing- doppler checks, cervical assessments...and I think those were filmed for the show to give credence to the notion that Jill was studying to become a MW, which no longer seems to be true.

Maybe, setting up, rubbing backs, filling bathtubs, keeping the dad informed and calm and clean up duties post birth? A second set of hands? All with baby Duggar in a wrap?

nailed it! :lol:

with cold-looking bare feet.

[LongDogMom]

My nephew's wife had a baby in early summer after having a very rough pregnancy. She also graduated from medical school in May and started her medical residency in August. The difference between this girl and Jill is choice. Most people get to a certain point and they know they have to push on through...it's been taught and is expected both internally and externally. The only thing that Jill has been taught in terms of herself and her worth, is that woman save themselves for 1 man and have lots of babies.The plot line will undoubtedly extend to the Duggar girls having lots of babies and MWs will be in attendance. Having only an uncertified MW in attendance at one's birth, would be irresponsible to both mom and her baby.

That's what's so ironic about what JB and Michelle have been saying about how courtship allows them to get to know each other on a deeper level...these kids don't even know themselves on a deeper level. They've been taught that only this very narrow way of life is okay and that really, that is the most important thing (a woman getting married a virgin and then having as many babies as possible). I'm not saying that wanting to be a wife and mother is wrong (I'm one myself), but I made a choice to do those things after a university degree, real jobs in a variety of fields, travel, a variety of past boyfriends and living on my own. I had real choices and the Duggars do not because they don't know anything else. JB and M may go on and on about how this is their (the kids) choice and what they really want for themselves, but they haven't allowed any of the kids to really experience the world or even know what is out there beyond their very narrow scope of life.

They don't even allow them to do things independently which can foster self confidence and learning. They are constantly treated as if they can't be trusted to be true to what they say are their beliefs, hence always having an "accountability partner". Where's the trust? Allow the kids to go out in the world, learn what's out there, what opportunities they could explore and what speaks to their individual souls...and then, if they choose to be a wife and mother and follow the Gothard rules it's an informed and true choice!

I can see Jill worrying about doing things that she grew up hearing were sinful and forbidden and going against her parents. What I hope is that as they spend time with Derick's friends and family, Jill will get to see other ways of life and that just because someone has attended college or read secular books and watch tv and movies that aren't all about Christ and Christian-centered (or 50+ years old tv) doesn't mean they are sinners or bad people or turned out bad. I hope it makes her start to question things a bit and widen her perspective so that rather than reverting to the way she was raised, she loosens up a bit and doesn't feel guiltridden about it (or that she's being a bad daughter).

[SassyPants]

That's what's so ironic about what JB and Michelle have been saying about how courtship allows them to get to know each other on a deeper level...these kids don't even know themselves on a deeper level. They've been taught that only this very narrow way of life is okay and that really, that is the most important thing (a woman getting married a virgin and then having as many babies as possible). I'm not saying that wanting to be a wife and mother is wrong (I'm one myself), but I made a choice to do those things after a university degree, real jobs in a variety of fields, travel, a variety of past boyfriends and living on my own. I had real choices and the Duggars do not because they don't know anything else. JB and M may go on and on about how this is their (the kids) choice and what they really want for themselves, but they haven't allowed any of the kids to really experience the world or even know what is out there beyond their very narrow scope of life.

They don't even allow them to do things independently which can foster self confidence and learning. They are constantly treated as if they can't be trusted to be true to what they say are their beliefs, hence always having an "accountability partner". Where's the trust? Allow the kids to go out in the world, learn what's out there, what opportunities they could explore and what speaks to their individual souls...and then, if they choose to be a wife and mother and follow the Gothard rules it's an informed and true choice!

I can see Jill worrying about doing things that she grew up hearing were sinful and forbidden and going against her parents. What I hope is that as they spend time with Derick's friends and family, Jill will get to see other ways of life and that just because someone has attended college or read secular books and watch tv and movies that aren't all about Christ and Christian-centered (or 50+ years old tv) doesn't mean they are sinners or bad people or turned out bad. I hope it makes her start to question things a bit and widen her perspective so that rather than reverting to the way she was raised, she loosens up a bit and doesn't feel guilt ridden about it (or that she's being a bad daughter).

YET, they did trust the girls to maintain a very fragile ,preterm infant, who was born at 25 weeks gestation and spent 6 months in the NIcu and was discharged on home oxygen and a cardiac monitor...while her parents cavorted to God only knows where and back- So, they are not old and responsible enough to maintain courting standards without accountability partners, but years ago, they were old and responsible enough to care for a fragile, miracle blessing. Now folks, that is some EFFED UP logic, Duggar style.

[eh02]

I find that interesting you say that. I've noticed a few times in episodes that Michelle was carrying a coach purse, and I know my purse game wll. That particular bag she had was around 400-500 bucks. Even used its around 120. I find it funny because I remember M'chelle saying that she didn't care about labels or fashions.

After seeing Michelle turn into a crazed animal getting her nails done, or enviously looking at wedding dresses with her daughter, who she seemed to think is a delusional idiot for not sharing her obsession with "bling," I can't say that a Coach bag surprises me these days.

Give it 5-10 years when she's in full on freakout mode as the youngest girls become teenagers and she's going to be bedazzled head to toe. Her hair will probably be so big by then she'll have to duck to get through the door. I think she's started to lose it because all of her daughters are young and beautiful...and fertile...

[calimojo]

Oh my I wish someone would convince Michele to get another make over and stick with it this time.

I recently watched the very first special from 10 years ago, and what struck me is that Michele, in particular, has not aged well. Her complexion in that first special was lovely, very fair and porcelain. She was relatively unlined and no sagging or drooping of jaw line, etc.

Fast forward to now, and she doesn't look that great. She is very lined, especially the forehead from her tendency to be be so wide eyed all the time, her skin has lost its fullness and luster. Her posture is more stooped and just the way she moves suggests to me some stiffness. I think the ravages of 21 pregnancies, including the 2 miscarriages and the severe pre-eclampsia that she had with Josie have worn her body down.

I am just a couple of years older than Michele and if she is going through menopause, that may be tough on her. I had it relatively easy, but some women really suffer. I have no idea if the Fundies would allow temporary hormone replacement therapy to help with some of the symptoms of menopause or not, but hopefully they do.

[CorruptionInc.]

Oh my I wish someone would convince Michele to get another make over and stick with it this time.

I recently watched the very first special from 10 years ago, and what struck me is that Michele, in particular, has not aged well. Her complexion in that first special was lovely, very fair and porcelain. She was relatively unlined and no sagging or drooping of jaw line, etc.

Fast forward to now, and she doesn't look that great. She is very lined, especially the forehead from her tendency to be be so wide eyed all the time, her skin has lost its fullness and luster. Her posture is more stooped and just the way she moves suggests to me some stiffness. I think the ravages of 21 pregnancies, including the 2 miscarriages and the severe pre-eclampsia that she had with Josie have worn her body down.

I am just a couple of years older than Michele and if she is going through menopause, that may be tough on her. I had it relatively easy, but some women really suffer. I have no idea if the Fundies would allow temporary hormone replacement therapy to help with some of the symptoms of menopause or not, but hopefully they do.

21 Pregnancies can't be good for anyone. Everyone is different; but it is amazing she has survived 21 of them relatively healthy.

[singsingsing]

I think I've said this before, but I've always thought that Michelle's face seemed to match up pretty well with her actual age - okay, she has wrinkles, well she's in her late 40s so that's not shocking - but her body is that of a woman 20 years her senior.

[nst]

I think I've said this before, but I've always thought that Michelle's face seemed to match up pretty well with her actual age - okay, she has wrinkles, well she's in her late 40s so that's not shocking - but her body is that of a woman 20 years her senior.

you think she has a 68 year old body ?

as for Jill - I suspect she would have no problem dropping the sweet persona with Derick and telling him what she really thinks - and if he has a problem with it - she will go to Daddy - I get that feeling

[singsingsing]

you think she has a 68 year old body ?

Yes. What else could I have meant? Haha.

[SassyPants]

Michelle is yo-yoer. I saw a recent photo of the family in winter type clothing (I am assuming it's within the last 2 weeks as Jessa is missing), and if this photo was not altered, Michelle looks like she's lost 30 lbs. Sometimes she looks pregnant, but lately she is looking quite chiseled. I wonder if she's had work done, including a TT?

[singsingsing]

Where are these pictures in which Michelle Duggar looks chiseled? Somehow I can't imagine her having cosmetic surgery. Maybe she's wearing spanx or something.

[SassyPants]

Where are these pictures in which Michelle Duggar looks chiseled? Somehow I can't imagine her having cosmetic surgery. Maybe she's wearing spanx or something.

Pickles and Hairspray, IIRC- they are in a church, maybe at the college of the Ozarks.

[SassyPants]

https://scontent-b-sjc.xx.fbcdn.net/hph ... e=55171603

[singsingsing]

She looks the same as always...

[SassyPants]

She looks the same as always...

I disagree. Compare her midsection in this photo to the one in the opening of their current show. Michelle is wearing an orange top in the opening. She barely has any definition from her chest to her hips in the show's opening. She now has a waist- The photos from Jill's wedding are also more chiseled.