How Long Before Jill Starts to Realize All She's Missed?

[LongDogMom]

Now that Derick is starting to expand Jill's mind and experience by doing things like taking her to a Broadway show (of Cinderella no less) and a wine tasting and, I'm sure, other interesting things, as well as probably talking to her about his own childhood and teen years, as well as university and what that was like, do you think Jill is suddenly realizing that maybe she missed out on a lot?

 

I think at first Jill will remain firmly loyal to her parents and the way she was raised, but after a while of being married to Derick and having some new (previously forbidden or highly unlikely to happen) experiences, you have to wonder if she'll start thinking about all the things he had fun doing over the years that she never even had the chance to experience even once. No trick or treating, no thinking about college - what to take/where to go? No movies or music and dancing and having fun out with friends. I'm sure Derick will want his kids to experience things that he enjoyed and Derick seems to have a more normal childhood. He may be very religious, but he didn't go to a Christian college and he seems to enjoy different things (like the foods he chose for their picnic before they got married were not foods that Jill would have tried before).

 

The Duggars don't celebrate Christmas with presents do they? Somehow I suspect Derick's family does, and probably most of his friends do as well. I'm sure he will want his son to grow up and enjoy the same things he did when he was growing up from Christmas to going to college, and maybe try out for Pistol Pete to keep the tradition going. One of his friends already got them a baby onesie with Derick's college logo on it I think.

 

Even if Jill stays firm that her parents are completely right about everything for a while, it's hard to believe she won't start wondering if maybe they didn't have the greatest upbringing once she starts seeing other people and hearing about their childhoods and seeing that they aren't horrible people if they celebrated Halloween or kissed and held hands before marriage. Every time she does something that she knows her parents wouldn't approve of and has fun, I wonder if there's some cognitive dissonance going on there in her head. For once in her life questions might actually arise and lo and behold, the sky didn't fall just because she had a glass of wine or whatever.

[singsingsing]

As far as we can tell, though, so far she hasn't done anything her parents wouldn't approve of. She went to a broadway show, but it was Cinderella, hardly risque. I seriously doubt Derick would take her to a wine tasting given her stance on alcohol. People convert to fundamentalism all the time, and unfortunately Derick might be one of those people. He might think the Duggars have it right, and will be more than happy to raise his children their way. I hope not, but at this point it's just as likely.

[SassyPants]

I think it is more likely that Derick will wake up and realize that he married into a family with unhealthy thinking and inappropriate parenting techniques. I doubt he, an educated and traveled man, will want to raise his children with the same limitations as his wife. I doubt he would want to foist such onto the world.

[mebeforee]

I think the Duggars do exchange presents at Christmas, but it's more like a secret santa. The kids all choose names and get a gift for that person, because the sheer number of them makes it financially impossible for the parents to get multiple gifts for each child. (At least, that's what they had us believe in the past - nowadays they could probably swing it fairly easily, considering they have money to do things like buy airplanes while also paying for weddings, but it seems unlikely they'll change that custom now that the kids are used to it...)

[mebeforee]

I think it is more likely that Derick will wake up and realize that he married into a family with unhealthy thinking and inappropriate parenting techniques. I doubt he, an educated and traveled man, will want to raise his children with the same limitations as his wife. I doubt he would want to foist such onto the world.

I think you're right here, I mean... he clearly has a fairly literal-Bible mindset when it comes to God, but his lifestyle seems quite different from the Duggars. He loves Jill and has a close relationship with JB, so maybe he hasn't realized yet how fully that upbringing will affect Jill and her parenting, life goals, etc. But he doesn't seem like the sort of person who would be at-risk for getting sucked into a radical movement like Quiverfull as the majority practice it, he comes from a very loving and stable family that is relatively small. He probably hasn't witnessed their more horrifying childrearing techniques, and although he went along with the courtship it seemed evident that the rules (about frontal hugs, anyway) weren't at the front of his mind, and his mother didn't seem to be especially thrilled with the whole 'not talking directly' (aka accountability) thing. It's clear how much he loves her and values her as a person, and I'm sure that her influence on him will be strong. Even if he tries to make some accommodations for Jill's upbringing and potentially unsavory aspects of that life, I think his mother will try to keep them from getting too swept up in Pearl-y bullshit as long as she's a part of his life. Doesn't mean she'll be successful (just look at JB and his dad) but since their relationship appears to be so strong, she might stand a chance of making him rethink whether some of the Duggars' weird customs are truly Biblical.

[CorruptionInc.]

I think you're right here, I mean... he clearly has a fairly literal-Bible mindset when it comes to God, but his lifestyle seems quite different from the Duggars. He loves Jill and has a close relationship with JB, so maybe he hasn't realized yet how fully that upbringing will affect Jill and her parenting, life goals, etc. But he doesn't seem like the sort of person who would be at-risk for getting sucked into a radical movement like Quiverfull as the majority practice it, he comes from a very loving and stable family that is relatively small. He probably hasn't witnessed their more horrifying childrearing techniques, and although he went along with the courtship it seemed evident that the rules (about frontal hugs, anyway) weren't at the front of his mind, and his mother didn't seem to be especially thrilled with the whole 'not talking directly' (aka accountability) thing. It's clear how much he loves her and values her as a person, and I'm sure that her influence on him will be strong. Even if he tries to make some accommodations for Jill's upbringing and potentially unsavory aspects of that life, I think his mother will try to keep them from getting too swept up in Pearl-y bullshit as long as she's a part of his life. Doesn't mean she'll be successful (just look at JB and his dad) but since their relationship appears to be so strong, she might stand a chance of making him rethink whether some of the Duggars' weird customs are truly Biblical.

Cathy FTW. That is all.

[Toothfairy]

It may takes years. It may be never. Jill's whole life has been everything is sinful. I hope she loosens up for her child's sake.

[artdecades]

Jill has drank the kool aid. I would bet Jessa would start to feel like she has been cheated out of a life sooner than Jill.

and when did this wine tasting thing happen? I hadn't heard of it.

[Kira]

I think it is more likely that Derick will wake up and realize that he married into a family with unhealthy thinking and inappropriate parenting techniques. I doubt he, an educated and traveled man, will want to raise his children with the same limitations as his wife. I doubt he would want to foist such onto the world.

You don't think Derick knew what kind of family he was marrying into? Plenty of educated Christian conservatives and fundies have put limitations on their kids. Derrick wouldn't foist his beliefs onto the world? Because he's educated? He wasn't raised in a quiverfull family?

[CorruptionInc.]

and when did this wine tasting thing happen? I hadn't heard of it.

They went to a wine festival after they were married but I believe they just went for dinner on plastic plates. Don't quote me on that though.

[SassyPants]

You don't think Derick knew what kind of family he was marrying into? Plenty of educated Christian conservatives and fundies have put limitations on their kids. Derrick wouldn't foist his beliefs onto the world? Because he's educated? He wasn't raised in a quiverfull family?

Plenty of people have put Duggar style limitations on their kids? Seriously? I was raised in a religious family, went to religious schools and lived a fairly sheltered life, as did all the people I associated with, and I know NO ONE who placed the limitations that the D's placed on their kids. Further, I was born in the 50s and raised in the 60s and early 70s when the world was a bit slower.

I am talking about Derick purposefully limiting his son- and then foisting an uneducated, limited person onto the world. Most people loft for better for their kids. Not many people dream of their child being, knowing, experiencing "less than".

[FreeHannie!]

Jill has drank the kool aid. I would bet Jessa would start to feel like she has been cheated out of a life sooner than Jill.

I agree. I can see Jessa experiencing the world now she's out and getting pretty pissed off when she realises everything she missed out on growing up.

[FreeHannie!]

Plenty of people have put Duggar style limitations on their kids? Seriously? I was raised in a religious family, went to religious schools and lived a fairly sheltered life, as did all the people I associated with, and I know NO ONE who placed the limitations that the D's placed on their kids. Further, I was born in the 50s and raised in the 60s and early 70s when the world was a bit slower.

I am talking about Derick purposefully limiting his son- and then foisting an uneducated, limited person onto the world. Most people loft for better for their kids. Not many people dream of their child being, knowing, experiencing "less than".

Yeah, my mom was raised Catholic fundie in the 60s/70s with super strict parents and even then, she still had more freedom than the Duggar kids.

[artdecades]

They went to a wine festival after they were married but I believe they just went for dinner on plastic plates. Don't quote me on that though.

oh right, the grape festival (I think it was actually grapes and not wine) where he "treated" her to spaghetti on school lunchroom style benches. wouldn't she have already been pregnant then, not that she would have drank the wine anyway

[DGayle]

They went to a wine festival after they were married but I believe they just went for dinner on plastic plates. Don't quote me on that though.

If it was wine (every grape festival I've been to has had wine), maybe this means Derek is okay with wine, and might get Jill to try a few kinds at some time.

[MatthewDuggar]

I do think that the huge differences on how they were raised is going to cause some challenges in their marriage. They were both molded differently and I can't imagine one of them just completely bending for the other. One would hope it will be a give and take transition and end up with a mix of lifestyles. I always felt that Jill would be the one that stayed true and firm to her parents beliefs, but we'll see!

[OneFifthQuiverFull]

I do think that the huge differences on how they were raised is going to cause some challenges in their marriage. They were both molded differently and I can't imagine one of them just completely bending for the other. One would hope it will be a give and take transition and end up with a mix of lifestyles. I always felt that Jill would be the one that stayed true and firm to her parents beliefs, but we'll see!

Almost all of us were raised somewhat differently than our spouses, unless we were actually raised WITH our spouses. I didn't enjoy my upbringing and have tried to modify that in my parenting, but I can't help but incorporate a lot of it in my child rearing because, after all, I turned out okay! :) My husband on the other hand thinks he was raised by June Cleaver. My MIL is a wonderful woman but even she says he has it all wrong and she wasn't the even-keeled easy-going Mom he claims she was. But nonetheless, he gets upset when I go on a screaming banshee fit with the kids because he just thinks it's wrong to parent that way. Even though I am the primary parent as a stay at home mom, I am mindful that they are equally my husband's children and he has right to have an opinion about how they are raised, no matter how I was raised or how I feel about their raising.

See, the difference is that we were able to talk about these things privately before we married and had children (also right away on our honeymoon). I was able to express openly to him how I felt about how I was raised without fear of retribution because they weren't listening in. We sorted out some opinions and deal-breakers before we brought kids into the mix.

There is NO WAY that Jill and Derek WON'T have differing opinions on things. Fundie or not, they are two different people coming from two completely different families! And this also highlights another DANGEROUS aspect of the close monitoring of the pre-marital relationship: There is no way to openly and honestly discuss childrearing with your future co-parent. Before we are parents, the only thing we know about a parent-child relationship is from the perspective of the child. The child perspective - good and bad - are what help us create our parenting styles. Since parenting is a two-person collaboration, you should have a good understanding of each other's feelings about how they were parented before you begin this life-long journey with another person.

Honestly, the more we peel back the layers on this lifestyle, the more dangerous it appears. I truly hope this is all manufactured for television. I almost think there needs to be a disclaimer on all of this by TLC. The leg humpers who follow along thinking these people are the epitome of Godliness are being led down the devil's path, I have no doubt now. This is an evil way to bring children into the world, under the auspice of goodness and godliness.

Disgusting.

[BeaSnarky]

I do think that the huge differences on how they were raised is going to cause some challenges in their marriage. They were both molded differently and I can't imagine one of them just completely bending for the other. One would hope it will be a give and take transition and end up with a mix of lifestyles. I always felt that Jill would be the one that stayed true and firm to her parents beliefs, but we'll see!

Meh - I don't buy that. My husband and I were raised completely differently (and still hold many polar opposit political beliefs) but have never had an issue.

I think it's funny that we project our perceived differences on the Duggar girls (and guys) and doom them to disaster in marriage because of it. Jill has plenty to snark without dooming her marriage. LIke her neverending supply of infinity scarves and wide eyed crazy eyes, and her whackadoodle parents.

She and Derick seem quite happy together as newly weds should. I don't want to start ticking away on the dooms day clock.

[SassyPants]

Meh - I don't buy that. My husband and I were raised completely differently (and still hold many polar opposit political beliefs) but have never had an issue.

I think it's funny that we project our perceived differences on the Duggar girls (and guys) and doom them to disaster in marriage because of it. Jill has plenty to snark without dooming her marriage. LIke her neverending supply of infinity scarves and wide eyed crazy eyes, and her whackadoodle parents.

She and Derick seem quite happy together as newly weds should. I don't want to start ticking away on the dooms day clock.

I actually feel more sorry for Derick. Sometimes young people do think that they can change the person they marry and that can and often times does lead to problems...I know he married her but darn the lack of exposure to every day situations and knowledge is sad. Without the ability to properly vett, these folks really just marry strangers. The thought that Jill might try to limit their son has to be frightening.

[SassyPants]

Yeah, my mom was raised Catholic fundie in the 60s/70s with super strict parents and even then, she still had more freedom than the Duggar kids.

My parents only had 3 kids but, yep, your mom could have been me- I could wear pants, date in HS and was allowed to go away to college, albeit it a Catholic university.

Strict and purposeful is one thing, asinine limitations that bind and constrict ADULTS are just wrong-

[Four is Enough]

The "good" I can see coming from Jill's beliefs is that Derick is now her "headship", not Jim Bob. If that is true, she must at least listen respectfully to what he says, correct? Therefore, I believe that something will creep into her brain on occasion. She's not going to argue with him, and I think it will be impossible for HER to "win him without a word" because she is full of words... so she submits to something, say, dancing, nobody dies, progress is made, and she's not so nutsy with the next thing.... right?

Or we can hope..

[BrownieMomma]

Personally, I feel this was not a well-thought-out decision by Jill or Derick and I maintain that Derick is going to be the more regretful one.

I don't see Jill "seeing the light" as she has been taught all her life that certain things are worldly and wrong, like going to college.

Not only did Derick go to college, he was Pistol Pete at a secular, state university. He then graduated with a bachelor's degree.

Jill can never get back what her parents decided to withhold. She can never go to high school, she can never have a typical college experience, she will never take up a study of something and have the whole world before her.

I mean, if 4yo Jill had taken ballet, there may be have been many possibilities for where that could have gone in her life. If she takes ballet now, it's just a hobby.

I think Jill will not realize what she's missed because she's already dismissed those things in her mind. It will be Derick, ten years from now, that will really understand and he will indeed miss what he's missing - something as ordinary as going to his alma mater football games once or twice a year - and he will realize the limitations of his children because of the woman he choose to be their mother.

Maybe he can get his kids into a private Christian school, at least. Maybe Jill will be able to adapt and interact with more normal people who have jobs and whose kids go to school.

[SassyPants]

The "good" I can see coming from Jill's beliefs is that Derick is now her "headship", not Jim Bob. If that is true, she must at least listen respectfully to what he says, correct? Therefore, I believe that something will creep into her brain on occasion. She's not going to argue with him, and I think it will be impossible for HER to "win him without a word" because she is full of words... so she submits to something, say, dancing, nobody dies, progress is made, and she's not so nutsy with the next thing.... right?

Or we can hope..

Theoretically, yes.

In reality, we have consistently seen JB bending and twisting the rules as he sees fit. I can see him pulling a "headship" card on his SILs,thereby allowing HIS rules and beliefs to supersede theirs-

[LongDogMom]

You don't think Derick knew what kind of family he was marrying into? Plenty of educated Christian conservatives and fundies have put limitations on their kids. Derrick wouldn't foist his beliefs onto the world? Because he's educated? He wasn't raised in a quiverfull family?

I don't think he was raised in a Quiverfull family and there's a lot of people I know who are pretty fundie but still allow their kids to attend college, attend public school and dress normally, etc.

Derick may not have known the extent of the Duggar beliefs. He knew they were evangelical but a lot of their fans don't know about Gothard and ATI and how ridiculous a lot of their beliefs are. They just see them as a little more strict fundamentalist but don't know about blanket training etc. Plus he's young and may not have really thought about what their lifestyle would mean to his life if he and Jill married and had kids.

I certainly could be wrong and he could be ready to drink the koolaid along with Jill, and he certainly went along with the wedding the way the Duggars wanted it (no drinking, no dancing, no sit down dinner, etc.). So maybe he's more into that kind of lifestyle than the way he was brought up, who knows? It just seems like he's doing things with Jill that are more normal and he sees going to plays and wine festivals as normal and fun while I don't think her family would do those things.

[SassyPants]

I don't think he was raised in a Quiverfull family and there's a lot of people I know who are pretty fundie but still allow their kids to attend college, attend public school and dress normally, etc.

Derick may not have known the extent of the Duggar beliefs. He knew they were evangelical but a lot of their fans don't know about Gothard and ATI and how ridiculous a lot of their beliefs are. They just see them as a little more strict fundamentalist but don't know about blanket training etc. Plus he's young and may not have really thought about what their lifestyle would mean to his life if he and Jill married and had kids.

I certainly could be wrong and he could be ready to drink the koolaid along with Jill, and he certainly went along with the wedding the way the Duggars wanted it (no drinking, no dancing, no sit down dinner, etc.). So maybe he's more into that kind of lifestyle than the way he was brought up, who knows? It just seems like he's doing things with Jill that are more normal and he sees going to plays and wine festivals as normal and fun while I don't think her family would do those things.

Exactly. Going to the bar is one thing, but I cannot believe that Derick is against music, dancing with one's spouse, movies, BOOKS (the Duggars limit books), pants, a healthy diet, new shoes, EDUCATION.

It's really hard to go backwards. I cannot imagine that many people who have been educated, would want their own children to remain uneducated. Let's face it, the Duggars have about a 4th grade education.