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How Long Before Jill Starts to Realize All She's Missed?


LongDogMom

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Can you imagine how creepy it would be to be Jenny and Jordan alone with geriatric attention whores and precious Josie? Even with their older sisters and their families over all the time, they're looking at some sad-ass game nights with the 'rents. Hopefully they'll be able to escape to some older sibling's home by then. Otherwise - urghhh. :ew:

Watching all of their older siblings have independence especially will be a nightmare for them IMO. The young girls are all so adorable. I really hope they make it out of this mess OK, but I really worry about the kids from James on down. When I try to imagine them as teenagers, I just see James, Hannie and Jenny being very sad, and Jackson, Jordyn and Josie going wild and lashing out. Michelle will try to turn Josie into a fundie singing sensation. Someone's gotta pay the bills when the show is canceled...

This is off topic, but I am starting to really love segments with James, and watching him talk about Jill leaving really broke my heart. I think he's really smart and insightful and is one of those kids whose dry humor is covering up a very sensitive and emotionally neglected kid. And I have never seen a single episode where he has had any sort of parent-child interaction with Michelle and Jim Bob. Maybe I'm remembering wrong...but he seems rather invisible to them on the show. :(

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I found out recently that Veggie Tales was owned by Dreamworks.... so, perhaps something a little darker, like Shrek?? Quelle horreur!

Veggie Tales was part of an acquisition of Classic Media by Dreamworks. Classic also had the rights to a bunch of other stuff like Rocky and Bullwinkle and Noddy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DreamWorks_Classics

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So Joy just turned 17 and Justin is now 12 (birthday this past weekend). Between them are the twins, Jason and James?

Holy damn Moly. 6 kids in 5 years.

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So Joy just turned 17 and Justin is now 12 (birthday this past weekend). Between them are the twins, Jason and James?

Holy damn Moly. 6 kids in 5 years.

I check here for their birth order and birthdays

duggarfamilyblog.com/p/birthdays.html

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Jill lacks cultural literacy but I doubt that Derrick

Does. I do wonder what they talk about too. I bet that Derrick stays on top of current events/world news of which Jill has not had much exposure to, SOTDRT! He may be spending a lot of time educating her of which she will accept since he is her headship now. He seems like the kind of person who would enjoy a cerebral conversation. I just do not see Derrick diving into a Quiverfull lifestyle. I hope with time he will loosen up Jill and in the end I see them as rock hard conservative Christians vs fundie. He is new to Duggarville but once he gets his feet wet and has his bearings I do not see him kowtowing to JB.

That's the thing, I doubt he realized just how culturally illiterate Jill (and all her siblings are) when they were skyping and texting. It's day to day stuff where a lot of that would start to show and I'll bet he might be a little shocked by how little exposure she has had to things that most of us perceive as normal and pretty non-threatening in any way. I think he'll enjoy teaching her about them, but I wonder if she would ever push back. Like a lot of fundies won't read Harry Potter because witchcraft. I don't know if Derick has read the books or seen the movies, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think he's very religious but his mother doesn't strike me as religious-fundie type crazy who would be frightened of everything and I think she trusts Derick. But I could see Derick try to get Jill to read Harry Potter or watch one of the movies and her get super uncomfortable because witchcraft. I remember when asked by middle school kids during a Duggar visit what her favourite book was and she responded: Someday My Prince Will Come or something like that. I don't think she's read secular fiction, but I imagine Derick has and probably has a favourite secular book.

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That's the thing, I doubt he realized just how culturally illiterate Jill (and all her siblings are) when they were skyping and texting. It's day to day stuff where a lot of that would start to show and I'll bet he might be a little shocked by how little exposure she has had to things that most of us perceive as normal and pretty non-threatening in any way. I think he'll enjoy teaching her about them, but I wonder if she would ever push back. Like a lot of fundies won't read Harry Potter because witchcraft. I don't know if Derick has read the books or seen the movies, but I wouldn't be surprised. I think he's very religious but his mother doesn't strike me as religious-fundie type crazy who would be frightened of everything and I think she trusts Derick. But I could see Derick try to get Jill to read Harry Potter or watch one of the movies and her get super uncomfortable because witchcraft. I remember when asked by middle school kids during a Duggar visit what her favourite book was and she responded: Someday My Prince Will Come or something like that. I don't think she's read secular fiction, but I imagine Derick has and probably has a favourite secular book.

I think what is very clear and that everyone can agree on, is that there is devoutly religious, and then there's fringe and radical ideas. Derick was raised in a religious home and presents as a nice, mainstream gentleman. Much of the Duggars purported beliefs are fringe- no books, little education, no independent life outside the Duggar compound or in non Duggar approved activities.

How and when did exercise (team sports), books, learning and higher education become scandalous? I am sure that Derick is bewildered by the Duggars' approach. What kind of parent would want to LIMIT their kids' options and resources? What kind of parent would want to unleash 19 uneducated people on society? They can't leave and cleave because they do not have the skills- all of those adults, except Derick are dependent on JB and his TLC contract.

I am sure that Derick's mother is very concerned.

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I think what is very clear and that everyone can agree on, is that there is devoutly religious, and then there's fringe and radical ideas. Derick was raised in a religious home and presents as a nice, mainstream gentleman. Much of the Duggars purported beliefs are fringe- no books, little education, no independent life outside the Duggar compound or in non Duggar approved activities.

How and when did exercise (team sports), books, learning and higher education become scandalous? I am sure that Derick is bewildered by the Duggars' approach. What kind of parent would want to LIMIT their kids' options and resources? What kind of parent would want to unleash 19 uneducated people on society? They can't leave and cleave because they do not have the skills- all of those adults, except Derick are dependent on JB and his TLC contract.

I am sure that Derick's mother is very concerned.

Those things became scandalous because fundies are control freaks who know that their narrow ideals and literal Bible beliefs don't stand up to scrutiny, but they're stuck on them because of fear. So -- control and limits on the kids.

Derick's mother should be concerned, if Jill and Derick want to head back into deeper fundie waters, going back to the strictness the Duggars had at the beginning. The points you brought up are very interesting, it shows how the Duggars used to be super strict but they've moved away from it gradually.

Re bolded: that's ATI, and there is was a big crowd of other families who worked together in ATI community to support the lifestyle. Now that's fallen apart quite a bit, thank :fsm: If fame had never happened and the Duggars were just an ordinary huge fundie family, they'd still believe all those rules but it seems like the fame changed all that, even before Gothard shot his empire in the foot.

Things that give hope for the Duggar kids:

Michelle is an accidental fundie who talks a lot about bling, she's not forcing a lot of rules imo like she used to. JB & M went to Godspell, they speak to crowds of fundie-lites and political buddies. They know a lot of people in a huge spectrum of American conservatism.

exercise: Michelle does elliptical, we know for sure, and Joseph has the weight room...

team sports: they go to pro games, they must also watch them online or on their phones or even broadcast by now, surely

books, learning, higher education: imo only limited by laziness these days, or a sorry foundation from the beginning, sadly. But a terrible beginning isn't impossible to overcome. A dedicated kid who knows how to read can learn quite a bit. JD learned to fly, the older girls learned style and makeup. Jill used her outgoing personality to make friends who taught her doula/midwifery skills. I bet if the kids were interested in learning a career their parents would probably try to help them find successful people the kids could mooch off of to learn skills. JB knows he can't support 19 families.

unleashing uneducated people on society: well, in their world (ATI world) they would be okay, because gothardism/fundie life is so insular. Honestly they could find work in that community by apprenticing. Construction, manual labor type jobs are super popular in fundie land. Things that can be self-employment. It wouldn't be a wealthy lifestyle probably, but it would sustain a family with community help.Community is what keeps fundies going. They swap baby stuff, garden produce, skills like car repair, friend loans: it's a system.

The non-famous ATI kids who are still stuck in fundie families are in a bad place culturally if they wanted to break out of the control and suppression. They're trapped, but i don't think the Duggar kids are there anymore.

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Watching all of their older siblings have independence especially will be a nightmare for them IMO. The young girls are all so adorable. I really hope they make it out of this mess OK, but I really worry about the kids from James on down. When I try to imagine them as teenagers, I just see James, Hannie and Jenny being very sad, and Jackson, Jordyn and Josie going wild and lashing out. Michelle will try to turn Josie into a fundie singing sensation. Someone's gotta pay the bills when the show is canceled...

They'll be fine imo. I don't think the Duggars will hold onto much of their old rules except maybe wearing skirts a lot of the time, and sticking to mostly "Christian" entertainment. :ew: I bet the the little kids will be helping their older siblings with childcare and JB & M will travel the world, make a circuit of visiting their herd of descendants, and keep up political rallies, trying to change the laws to fit their worldview. The younger kids will probably have a more exciting life than the older ones -- always an older married sibling traveling, skiing, doing something they can tag along with. At least i hope so for their sake. Game night with a 70-ish set of parents would be torture. :lol:

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RE: JD and his "pilot's license".

Would you get into a plane with a pilot who most likely has the bare minimum of what is needed to get a GED in Arkansas? Would you let someone you loved get into that plane with that pilot? I am wondering if JD actually flies on his own, or if there's an instructor on the plane at all times.

It's a shame none of us will have the interesting and informative experience of being a fly on the wall at the upcoming holiday visits to Jill and Jessa's in-laws. Both families are churchgoing, but equipped their children to stand on their own two feet via education, for starters. Derick's brother seems less than entranced by his brother's new in-laws, and it's hard to imagine that the Seewalds were especially excited to see how their son was portrayed on national TV. What's going to happen when Jill and Jessa come home with new interests and experiences that their parents will NOT be happy about?

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RE: JD and his "pilot's license".

Would you get into a plane with a pilot who most likely has the bare minimum of what is needed to get a GED in Arkansas? Would you let someone you loved get into that plane with that pilot? I am wondering if JD actually flies on his own, or if there's an instructor on the plane at all times.

it wouldn't bother me. Getting a private pilot's license isn't that horribly hard. The ground school requires some basic understanding of flight physics but the actual computations you have to do are quite simple. When I got mine we did them on a circular slide rule that handles everything. These days you use a dedicated calculator.

Actual flight is more akin to a motor memory skill than anything academic- learn to handle stalls, engine out procedures and crosswind landings and you are mostly there.

Back when I got mine my neighbor was working on his as well. He was a high school dropout and could fly fine. He was also a master mechanic- he had part ownership of a plane and did a fair amount of work on it. One day I saw him installing an engine intercooler to improve performance- it didn't quite fit under the cowling so he was reshaping the fiberglass by hand.

JD might well be more than capable. (And his plane has a ballistic parachute in case of real emergency)

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RE: JD and his "pilot's license".

Would you get into a plane with a pilot who most likely has the bare minimum of what is needed to get a GED in Arkansas? Would you let someone you loved get into that plane with that pilot? I am wondering if JD actually flies on his own, or if there's an instructor on the plane at all times.

It's a shame none of us will have the interesting and informative experience of being a fly on the wall at the upcoming holiday visits to Jill and Jessa's in-laws. Both families are churchgoing, but equipped their children to stand on their own two feet via education, for starters. Derick's brother seems less than entranced by his brother's new in-laws, and it's hard to imagine that the Seewalds were especially excited to see how their son was portrayed on national TV. What's going to happen when Jill and Jessa come home with new interests and experiences that their parents will NOT be happy about?

I wouldn't even get in the Duggar RV with a Duggar driving

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So Joy just turned 17 and Justin is now 12 (birthday this past weekend). Between them are the twins, Jason and James?

Holy damn Moly. 6 kids in 5 years.

and between the four older girls Jana and Jinger it's like 4 kids back to back. I'm surprised Michelle's uterus didn't fall our by baby number 12

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I think what is very clear and that everyone can agree on, is that there is devoutly religious, and then there's fringe and radical ideas. Derick was raised in a religious home and presents as a nice, mainstream gentleman. Much of the Duggars purported beliefs are fringe- no books, little education, no independent life outside the Duggar compound or in non Duggar approved activities.

How and when did exercise (team sports), books, learning and higher education become scandalous? I am sure that Derick is bewildered by the Duggars' approach. What kind of parent would want to LIMIT their kids' options and resources? What kind of parent would want to unleash 19 uneducated people on society? They can't leave and cleave because they do not have the skills- all of those adults, except Derick are dependent on JB and his TLC contract.

I am sure that Derick's mother is very concerned.

I'm sure Jill is starting g to question everything, but I don't think she's going to be able to let all that brainwashing stuff just go. I do hope therapy with a good therapist is in both Derrick and Jill's future. So she can realize and come to terms with how she was raised. I'm sure she will have some stockholm syndrome.

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and between the four older girls Jana and Jinger it's like 4 kids back to back. I'm surprised Michelle's uterus didn't fall our by baby number 12

I bet she has quite the prolapse by now unless it's been secretly fixed along the way.

I think that even if Derick respects JB, he is still a bit more liberal in his ideas of entertainment and music. I think he and Jill will manage to develop little inside jokes and pop references that are meaningful to them. I see Derick as laid back enough to nurture Jill into the real world.

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I think that Jill will never be able to grasp what she was missing out on. She is so extremly brainwashed and everything turned out well for her, plus: she doesn't seem to be very bright or sensitive (just my impression) (talking over everyone else, ...).

She will never be able to appriciate the things Derick exposes her to.

I really do feel for Derick. He probably didn't know what he was getting himself into (I'm sorry is that english?)

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She will never be able to appriciate the things Derick exposes her to.

I really do feel for Derick. He probably didn't know what he was getting himself into (I'm sorry is that english?)

We all assume that Derrick is going to expose Jill to the whole new secular world. Sure, she will see and do things that she normally would not when JB had her heart, but who's to say that it won't go the other way and Derrick will turn batshit and extremely restrictive. It happened to her parents!

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We all assume that Derrick is going to expose Jill to the whole new secular world. Sure, she will see and do things that she normally would not when JB had her heart, but who's to say that it won't go the other way and Derrick will turn batshit and extremely restrictive. It happened to her parents!

It takes a very specific type of personality to fall headfirst into a watered down cult, and I don't think Derick fits. He seems very rational. Radical beliefs are rarely passed down successfully to multiple generations, and I have trouble seeing Derick as a dad who would tell his daughters to do their hair "how he likes it" or not to wear pants. Even Jill clearly sees children as individual human beings more than her own mother ever did - she has always seemed more nurturing and maternal than Michelle. I really do not think her children will have the same childhood she did.

I've said it before, but I think Jill is just a people pleaser to a fault - the kind of very sensitive kid who is terrified of doing something wrong. JB+M took advantage of her. Many children have her personality (the "helper") but most (good) parents realize that giving a CHILD adult responsibilities just because they're desperate for positive affirmation is WRONG. JB+M should be ashamed that Jill's entire childhood was spent raising someone else's children.

She has always seemed very inquisitive and eager to learn, and I think that's probably a good sign for her. At least I hope so. Maybe I'm being too optimistic. I just think she has looked so genuinely happy and confident lately, and I hope it stays that way - and I hope she (and they all) will move FAR away from Arkansas.

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