Sparkling Adventures in Child Neglect - "Gayby" is Born!

[shedemei]

^

I had to call my step dad "Dad" and my mother kept insisting I tell none of her friends that I wasn't the biological child of their union. She loved it when people said there was a family resemblance.

I had that situation with my father and my stepmother. On the day of their wedding, when I was 9, I asked my stepmother what she wanted me to call her. She said her first name, and then my father whispered "Why don't you tell her you'll just call her mom?" I think that was the first time I felt actual revulsion, and of course I never called her that. A few years later she mentioned that I never called her mom while she was yelling at me about something. I told her she wasn't my mother. I'll never forget her reply, and how nasty her tone was when she said it: "Your mother's dead ."

Yeah, parents should never, ever force children to call someone else "mom" or "dad." You can't force a relationship or swap in a new parent just to satisfy your need to have an intact family.

[nelliebelle1197]

This has been a truly amazing thread to read. I'm sort of blown away at the intelligent and dignified debate and am damn proud and feel very privileged to be a member here. I need a card to carry or perhaps a bumper sticker. :D

Nellie, you blow me away with your courageous, fierce intelligence. You have such spirit. You're going to change the world in some good way. Even if it's small, it will be significant.

Aww... shucks, ma'am :embarrassed:

[Trynn]

I'm told that in African culture it's common to lie to adopted children, because when they find out, they rebel. And all I could think was "yeah because they've found out you've been lying to them all their life." My second thought was "poor S. I misjudged him."

I'm not sire the exact situation in S's case, but I think the deception hurt him worse than anyhing/

[bubblekitty]

And I hate to break it to the poster who said that Daniel isn't a sibling to those girls, but genetically he is. Once again when they are all of an age of emotional maturity they should work together to build a relationship if they so wish.

I just get so frustrated with the folks who forget about the children and the bio families in the adoption triad, as if their feelings are not as important as the adoptive families.

And he's not even going to be a sibling you discover you have when you're older and start looking into your bio family. They have spent 9 months with their mum being pregnant with him. I'm going to assume they saw him after he was born, to keep them away would be very unsparkly.

Maybe the one who traveled to the US had a family emergency/death or something?

Lauren is also facing the end of her saga of wonderfulness, she is no longer a surrogate and has to go back to Aus and start driving around the country again. Sure she can tell people all about her great giving away of the baby but the attention is not going to be the same as when she was pregnant. She is going to need something else.

I also feel terrible for her mother and sisters. They lost Elijah and now there is another baby they have the same blood relationship to that they will presumably be denied having a relationship with or even meeting until he's an adult.

[Maggie Mae]

TBH I find all of the hand wringing over the sisters' "relationship" to be pathetic.

He is NOT their sister. He is the child of the two men who adopted him. He will be raised by them, in their country.

The girls will be raised by their "mother" who is, admittedly, sparkly, and they should have no connection with the boy who their mother birthed and gave to the men. If they want to contact Daniel when they are adults, fine. But until then, they, and Lauren, should leave Daniel to be raised by his adoptive parents. They are his parents. He's better off with them, anyway. And, as a person who never knew 50% of her biological make-up, it doesn't matter. What matters is who raises you. This obsession with genealogy is dumb and archaic.

[snarkelle]

"I know that what I’m doing will augment our worldwide network of loving friends — my girls will always be welcomed in Ãgúst and Ben’s home when they choose to start travelling independently. I also expect that we’ll see more of the fathers and their child in the future — during their visits to Australia, the men fell in love with the country— especially Tasmania."

Well Lauren apparently has the expectation that they'll all be one big happy extended family, separated only by distance. I dont think she really understands what surrogacy means. Unhealthy boundaries all round guaranteed to result in some unhappiness for someone.

[Mama Mia]

TBH I find all of the hand wringing over the sisters' "relationship" to be pathetic.

He is NOT their sister. He is the child of the two men who adopted him. He will be raised by them, in their country.

The girls will be raised by their "mother" who is, admittedly, sparkly, and they should have no connection with the boy who their mother birthed and gave to the men. If they want to contact Daniel when they are adults, fine. But until then, they, and Lauren, should leave Daniel to be raised by his adoptive parents. They are his parents. He's better off with them, anyway. And, as a person who never knew 50% of her biological make-up, it doesn't matter. What matters is who raises you. This obsession with genealogy is dumb and archaic.

You are really just entirely not getting it.

Regardless of whatever the legalities are, or adult philosophical opinions are, or how they try to explain it, this baby is, in fact, these little girls baby brother.

This isn't a biological sibling that their mom put up for adoption before they were born. Or a secret brother on their dad's side that they discover on Facebook as teenagers. This isn't even some sort of surrogacy where their mother carried their cousin, because their Aunt couldn't. Or even a surprise baby born to a completely destitute and/or ill mother who relinquished because she just could literally not feed or care for one more child.

This is a baby boy purposefully conceived and carried by their mother , to be given away to a couple who lives half-way around the world. After their baby brother had just been murdered by their father! they just spent the past 9 months watching her stomach grow. Seeing the baby kick. No doubt feeling the kicks. They know that baby is their brother.

No amount of logic or detachment or whatever the fuck all you think your reasoning is -- changes the fact that these are real, living, individual little girls who are ALREADY coping with grief and loss. If one or more of them wants to maintain contact through Skype or letters or drawings or even occasional visits, the so-called adults involved should ALL bend over backwards to make sure that happens.

[Phoenix]

Because even if your parent is nuts you need to know the even if at arm's length.

No actually you don't. If someone who gave a shit about my ex and had taken him from his mother at birth he might have had a chance in life and I wouldn't have wasted 17 years of my life trying to work with a hopelessly broken human being who is now busy destroying yet another family.

Some crazy nut job parents should never be known for the sake of the child and all the other lives that child touches as they grow up and are adults themselves. They don't stay cute, innocent and harmless babies.

I understand about knowing something of your biological roots for medical reasons. I have been contacted by relatives I didn't know I had precisely for those reasons and was happy to pass along relevant information.

LIttle Daniel is much better off with his Dads. Hopefully he never meets Lauren and is not forced into a relationship with her. Siblings... well he can decide at 18 by which time they will have little in common. I don't care what the Bible says about honoring your mother and father. Respect has to be earned and deserved. A biological link shouldn't tie you to a nightmare of a parent for life.

[Annasopinion]

No actually you don't. If someone who gave a shit about my ex and had taken him from his mother at birth he might have had a chance in life and I wouldn't have wasted 17 years of my life trying to work with a hopelessly broken human being who is now busy destroying yet another family.

Some crazy nut job parents should never be known for the sake of the child and all the other lives that child touches as they grow up and are adults themselves. They don't stay cute, innocent and harmless babies.

I understand about knowing something of your biological roots for medical reasons. I have been contacted by relatives I didn't know I had precisely for those reasons and was happy to pass along relevant information.

LIttle Daniel is much better off with his Dads. Hopefully he never meets Lauren and is not forced into a relationship with her. Siblings... well he can decide at 18 by which time they will have little in common. I don't care what the Bible says about honoring your mother and father. Respect has to be earned and deserved. A biological link shouldn't tie you to a nightmare of a parent for life.

This isn't about you or your ex. This is about Lauren giving away her baby. Daniel is her genetic material, he IS hers and he HAS four sisters and a dead brother. What's going on here is human trafficking where the needs and desires of the Goldstars, outweigh the needs and rights and human dignity of the newborn child. Daniel is NOT better off with his dads because he HAS a mother and sisters who he is connected to and will have a connection to for the rest of his life - whether they acknowledge or encourage it or not.

His SISTERS have a right to meet, hold and know him and have a relationship with him. An ongoing relationship. Its bizarre that so many people think you can buy swap and sell human beings. Daniel has rights. Thank God the internet is forever. :wtf:

[So Many Lies]

"I know that what I’m doing will augment our worldwide network of loving friends — my girls will always be welcomed in Ãgúst and Ben’s home when they choose to start travelling independently. I also expect that we’ll see more of the fathers and their child in the future — during their visits to Australia, the men fell in love with the country— especially Tasmania."

Well Lauren apparently has the expectation that they'll all be one big happy extended family, separated only by distance. I dont think she really understands what surrogacy means. Unhealthy boundaries all round guaranteed to result in some unhappiness for someone.

I hope it DOES turn out like that. I just don't know that it will.

[So Many Lies]

Wasn't she not due for another two and a half weeks or so? Maybe he had pre-planned stuff that he still had to go do? But wasn't he also the half of the couple who was less into the whole gayby thing anyway?

No it was the other way around.

[So Many Lies]

TBH I find all of the hand wringing over the sisters' "relationship" to be pathetic.

He is NOT their sister. He is the child of the two men who adopted him. He will be raised by them, in their country.

The girls will be raised by their "mother" who is, admittedly, sparkly, and they should have no connection with the boy who their mother birthed and gave to the men. If they want to contact Daniel when they are adults, fine. But until then, they, and Lauren, should leave Daniel to be raised by his adoptive parents. They are his parents. He's better off with them, anyway. And, as a person who never knew 50% of her biological make-up, it doesn't matter. What matters is who raises you. This obsession with genealogy is dumb and archaic.

"Dumb and archaic" eh?

Anyone with a different view to you is "pathetic"??

So as a person who only knows 50% of their genealogy are you SURE you're 100% fine?

Because from your tone and attitude I'm going to go with no.

There are many, many people here on this board who have reasoned opinions and stories and experiences that you have just high handedly dismissed as "hand wringing".

Rude.

ETA incidentally it is not "their" country entirely. The bio Dad is an American national. He hasn't been there that long. He has begun to learn the language. He may have dual citizenship. Personally I think that adds another layer of complication

[So Many Lies]

I had that situation with my father and my stepmother. On the day of their wedding, when I was 9, I asked my stepmother what she wanted me to call her. She said her first name, and then my father whispered "Why don't you tell her you'll just call her mom?" I think that was the first time I felt actual revulsion, and of course I never called her that. A few years later she mentioned that I never called her mom while she was yelling at me about something. I told her she wasn't my mother. I'll never forget her reply, and how nasty her tone was when she said it: "Your mother's dead ."

Yeah, parents should never, ever force children to call someone else "mom" or "dad." You can't force a relationship or swap in a new parent just to satisfy your need to have an intact family.

Some weird things go down in situations like that, for sure. It's sad. Just because the adults want/need it one way the children have to tow the line.

Even though I wasn't to mention bio dad ever, and always had to call my step dad "Dad" here's the really screwed up part...If I annoyed my mother enough she'd scream "I'll send you to live with your real father"!

She said this behind closed doors as a threat since I was about 5. It was a two pronged attack: it reconfirmed the idea he was a boogeyman of sorts (since I wasn't allowed to see him) and that I was also expendable if I didn't act right. Talk about having your cake and eating it too!! The classic double bind of the narcissist.

[Phoenix]

This isn't about you or your ex. This is about Lauren giving away her baby. Daniel is her genetic material, he IS hers and he HAS four sisters and a dead brother. What's going on here is human trafficking where the needs and desires of the Goldstars, outweigh the needs and rights and human dignity of the newborn child. Daniel is NOT better off with his dads because he HAS a mother and sisters who he is connected to and will have a connection to for the rest of his life - whether they acknowledge or encourage it or not.

His SISTERS have a right to meet, hold and know him and have a relationship with him. An ongoing relationship. Its bizarre that so many people think you can buy swap and sell human beings. Daniel has rights. Thank God the internet is forever. :wtf:

Everyone is so busy talking about RIGHTS they are not looking 20 years down the road. I am most interested in what is best for Daniel long term and having Sparkling Lauren in his life isn't it. I only used an example from my own experience to try and illustrate this point.

Reducing Daniel to Lauren's "genetic material" is not particularly humanizing. However if you want to go that route he is also the "genetic material" of one of his Dads. Since it is a 50/50 split on genetic legacy why should Lauren's trump the fathers?

The relative I didn't know I had was perfectly happy to not know about her biological family although she knew from childhood she was adopted until said family ambushed her en mass in her early 50's demanding they had the RIGHT to know her. It was abrupt and turned her happy, healthy life on it's head. She adjusted but it has taken time. It is not always a joyous reunion or Hallmark moment. This is why I think Daniel should be given the chance to grow up and make his own decisions about knowing his sisters or not.

Lauren doesn't take care of the children she already has. Daniel is most definitely better off with his Dads who actually want him. He was concieved to be their child. As an infant all he will know is if his needs are met. Currently the best chances for those needs to be met are with his Dads.

Who knows, maybe in 18 years the Sparkling One will have gotten her head, heart, family and life together. At that time she may be someone Daniel might benefit from knowing but I am not holding my breath since her track record in making healthy decsions for her family is abysmal. She may not even be alive in 18 years if she keeps up her sparkling lifestyle dragging her children behind her like extra luggage.

Yes, the whole situation between Lauren and the guys is shadowy, apparently illegall under Icelandic law according to other posters and an ethical minefield.

Thank goodness the internet is forever.... maybe someday Daniel will learn there were people who gave a damn about what happened to him rather than everyone elses RIGHTS.

Edited once for riffles.

[Peas n carrots]

TBH I find all of the hand wringing over the sisters' "relationship" to be pathetic.

He is NOT their sister. He is the child of the two men who adopted him. He will be raised by them, in their country.

The girls will be raised by their "mother" who is, admittedly, sparkly, and they should have no connection with the boy who their mother birthed and gave to the men. If they want to contact Daniel when they are adults, fine. But until then, they, and Lauren, should leave Daniel to be raised by his adoptive parents. They are his parents. He's better off with them, anyway. And, as a person who never knew 50% of her biological make-up, it doesn't matter. What matters is who raises you. This obsession with genealogy is dumb and archaic.

Yeah, because you know so much more than US ADOPTEES on the subject! :roll: Thanks for telling us how it is!

[Peas n carrots]

Everyone is so busy talking about RIGHTS they are not looking 20 years down the road. I am most interested in what is best for Daniel long term and having Sparkling Lauren in his life isn't it. I only used an example from my own experience to try and illustrate this point.

Reducing Daniel to Lauren's "genetic material" is not particularly humanizing. However if you want to go that route he is also the "genetic material" of one of his Dads. Since it is a 50/50 split on genetic legacy why should Lauren's trump the fathers?

The relative I didn't know I had was perfectly happy to not know about her biological family although she knew from childhood she was adopted until said family ambushed her en mass in her early 50's demanding they had the RIGHT to know her. It was abrupt and turned her happy, healthy life on it's head. She adjusted but it has taken time. It is not always a joyous reunion or Hallmark moment. This is why I think Daniel should be given the chance to grow up and make his own decisions about knowing his sisters or not.

Lauren doesn't take care of the children she already has. Daniel is most definitely better off with his Dads who actually want him. He was concieved to be their child. As an infant all he will know is if his needs are met. Currently the best chances for those needs to be met are with his Dads.

Who knows, maybe in 18 years the Sparkling One will have gotten her head, heart, family and life together. At that time she may be someone Daniel might benefit from knowing but I am not holding my breath since her track record in making healthy decsions for her family is abysmal. She may not even be alive in 18 years if she keeps up her sparkling lifestyle dragging her children behind her like extra luggage.

Yes, the whole situation between Lauren and the guys is shadowy, apparently illegall under Icelandic law according to other posters and an ethical minefield.

Thank goodness the internet is forever.... maybe someday Daniel will learn there were people who gave a damn about what happened to him rather than everyone elses RIGHTS.

Edited once for riffles.

To the bolded: that is the sticky mess of adoption. I wouldn't blame your relative's bio siblings for wanting to know their sibling who had been adopted away. It's another thing that adoptee's from the Baby Scoop era weren't prepared to deal with as the closed adoption system meant to shut out bio families forever. I never expected to meet my bio family, I wasn't sure what kind of can of worms would be opened...and well, I got the same kind of smothering treatment. It turned my life on it's head to, and it took me years to figure out how they fit in my life. Do I regret it...not at all, it's brought a lot of peace in my personal life.

But let's go back to the Lauren/Gold Star situation - what annoys me is Ben wanted a child to fulfill something in him, not so much because he was looking for a child to love. Agust is ambivalent, and Lauren did it for some sparkly reason. This was never about a baby - it was an attention grab. The least they can do is accommodate the children stuck in the middle of the situation, but the adults in the situation are too into themselves to ever do that. It's the kids who are going to pay the price of separation.

[heidi]

TBH I find all of the hand wringing over the sisters' "relationship" to be pathetic.

He is NOT their sister. He is the child of the two men who adopted him. He will be raised by them, in their country.

The girls will be raised by their "mother" who is, admittedly, sparkly, and they should have no connection with the boy who their mother birthed and gave to the men. If they want to contact Daniel when they are adults, fine. But until then, they, and Lauren, should leave Daniel to be raised by his adoptive parents. They are his parents. He's better off with them, anyway. And, as a person who never knew 50% of her biological make-up, it doesn't matter. What matters is who raises you. This obsession with genealogy is dumb and archaic.

You have had several adoptees in this thread (myself included) sharing our personal experiences and how that influences how we see this situation and you've callously dismissed it as "hand wringing," "pathetic" and "dumb and archaic." I don't understand why it's so offensive to you that adoptees are saying that this situation is being handled poorly.

All we've said is that it's not up to the fathers, Lauren, and especially us to decide how Daniel and the girls view their relationship. They're children and they're genetic siblings. I know that it might make you uncomfortable to think that they might someday want to form a relationship with this other person(s) with whom they share their DNA. I've met half of my biological siblings. It helped answer a lot of questions that I had.

Maybe Daniel won't have as many questions (he will know 50% of his genetic heritage--add to this everything that Lauren dumps online), but maybe he will have many questions. I hope that his fathers maintain some sort of contact with Lauren and/or the girls so that when Daniel is older/an adult it will be easier to establish a relationship with them if he so chose.

Also, just to clear up any confusion. Saying that Daniel is the girls' brother does not erase the fact that he is the son of Agust and Ben. English doesn't have a good way to clarify complex familial relationships without tacking on clunky adjectives to nouns denoting relationship.

Daniel has (from everything we've seen online) two loving parents. However, he also has four (biological) sisters and a (biological) mother. A baby in the womb has no idea that the woman he is living inside is not going to be his mother when he's born. He's going to experience a loss when Lauren leaves (and from talking with other adoptees it seems that the loss of our natural mothers is what we grieved the most--perhaps because of the instinctive bonding?). I also personally think that the girls will also have emotional fallout when they leave as well. They're little girls--they melt down over yogurt--there's no way (in my opinion) that they'll be able to be emotionally detached from the situation :(

I respectfully ask that you refrain from dismissing my experiences as an adoptee as "pathetic, dumb and archaic hand wringing."

[Paperplate]

"I know that what I’m doing will augment our worldwide network of loving friends — my girls will always be welcomed in Ãgúst and Ben’s home when they choose to start travelling independently. I also expect that we’ll see more of the fathers and their child in the future — during their visits to Australia, the men fell in love with the country— especially Tasmania."

Well Lauren apparently has the expectation that they'll all be one big happy extended family, separated only by distance. I dont think she really understands what surrogacy means. Unhealthy boundaries all round guaranteed to result in some unhappiness for someone.

That sounds like she's fixing to send the girl off on their own ASAP –– and as far away from AUS as possible.

On another note: Won't they be welcomed in Ãgúst and Ben’s home when they are all together, including Lauren?

[chaotic life]

The only difference between traditional surrogacy and adoption is that by calling it surrogacy, it's somehow acceptable to treat your unborn child as property to sell instead of your child that adoption says you cannot make that final decision until you have given birth and actually held your child.

Yes, Daniel is far better off with his biological father (August, the Icelandic) and his partner than his mother, but Lauren is most certainly still his mother.

You absolutely can compare traditional surrogate children to adoptees and all of the research says children need to know and have access, because good or bad it is still part of who they ARE.

There's more though. Turns out the sibling bond is actually stronger than the parent child bond.

I am not an adoptee. But I listen carefully to the voices of adoptees. I am the sister and mother of adoptees, but I am also a birth mother. I refused to follow through with the placement that I realized was lying to me and had no intention of having an open adoption. As an adult, my birth daughter's adoptive mother took off and abandoned her and I stepped back into the role of mom fully. But, she always knew me and she always had access to her siblings in my home. Of my own adoptees, one we have been successful at finding his birth family and not the other two. Not only does that child feel more secure, but he talks to his older brother internationally about once a month. They are still brothers, even though legally they are not and they have been raised world's apart by different families.

I watched my young son's heartbreak at losing his brother all those years ago. I saw first hand how strong the sibling bond is between him and his brother, and my birthdaughter and my oldest biological child. I opened his adoption and became an advocate for never breaking ties between siblings if at all possible because I watched the children actually involved.

The adoptees speaking out should be listened to. Daniel and all four of those girls will not be okay if their connection is severed. It is in none of their best interests to deny their place in each other's lives. It's complicated doing it across a globe, believe me I know, but it IS doable. Lauren and the gold stars have access to technology my son's brother cannot even dream of and they still stay connected.

Yes, Daniel has a right to make his own choice what role his crazy mother plays in his life, but he and his sisters need that bond respected by the adults in their lives and nurtured. The only respectful way to play this out for the children is an open adoption scenario.

[August]

Chaotic life, I dsagree. With adoption the mother may be in an untenable situation not of her choosing, so in basic human kindness you have to allow for them to keep the adopted child at extreme arms length. Think of, say, if the mother was raped.

Whereas surrogacy/ gamete donation is planned, hours and hours of counselling (well, done the proper way, unlike fucking sparkles), thinking, planning, talking. It's very easy for prospective parents to pass over someone who's not fully able to accept that the child might want a relationship (or might not). The conception does not happen until everything is sorted. There is no excuse for anonyminity or lack of contact in a planned conception.

"Dumb and archaic" eh?

Anyone with a different view to you is "pathetic"??

So as a person who only knows 50% of their genealogy are you SURE you're 100% fine?

Because from your tone and attitude I'm going to go with no.

There are many, many people here on this board who have reasoned opinions and stories and experiences that you have just high handedly dismissed as "hand wringing".

Rude.

ETA incidentally it is not "their" country entirely. The bio Dad is an American national. He hasn't been there that long. He has begun to learn the language. He may have dual citizenship. Personally I think that adds another layer of complication

He's been there since 2007, with an interlude in Germany.

[thoughtful]

No it was the other way around.

I think she had it right -- let me see if I can put it all in once place.

Sæþór Benjamín Randalsson, born Ben Mathis to a pastor and his wife who now work in West Point, VA, is the enthusiastic one. He is the taller one, with the toothy grin, the not-red hair, and the "poopinmymouth" blog (as well as lots of other online presence, sometimes as BenChompers). He is the one in the tub, looking so moved, in the post-birth pictures.

Ágúst Karlsson is the redhead who often wears glasses, a native of Iceland, who was described as less enthused about being a parent (on the Gayby blog? someone correct me if I'm wrong). Ágúst is the biological father (as I remember, they wanted a double dose of Possible Redhead as well as wanting to get him invested - again, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Ágúst is the one whose Facebook said he was in Ben's family's hometown. That's why it piqued my curiosity.

BTW, if anyone has trouble remembering who is the less enthused (and the bio dad), visualize this picture:

There is it -- Ágúst squeezed in a sandwich of grinning, high-enthusiasm sparkly ones, probably thinking "great -- this makes me look like Lucky Pierre in a very overdressed threesome reach-around."

Although, as I've said, I do have some hope that the low-key look is just Ágúst's natural way, and that he's not that into having his picture taken. I sometimes want to caption every pic I've seen of him -- what's the Icelandic for "Ben, are you taking my picture again?!"

[hoipolloi]

I think she had it right -- let me see if I can put it all in once place.

Sæþór Benjamín Randalsson, born Ben Mathis to a pastor and his wife who now work in West Point, VA, is the enthusiastic one. He is the taller one, with the toothy grin, the not-red hair, and the "poopinmymouth" blog (as well as lots of other online presence, sometimes as BenChompers). He is the one in the tub, looking so moved, in the post-birth pictures.

Ágúst Karlsson is the redhead who often wears glasses, a native of Iceland, who was described as less enthused about being a parent (on the Gayby blog? someone correct me if I'm wrong). Ágúst is the biological father (as I remember, they wanted a double dose of Possible Redhead as well as wanting to get him invested - again, someone correct me if I'm wrong).

Ágúst is the one whose Facebook said he was in Ben's family's hometown. That's why it piqued my curiosity.

BTW, if anyone has trouble remembering who is the less enthused (and the bio dad), visualize this picture:

There is it -- Ágúst squeezed in a sandwich of grinning, high-enthusiasm sparkly ones, probably thinking "great -- this makes me look like Lucky Pierre in a very overdressed threesome reach-around."

Although, as I've said, I do have some hope that the low-key look is just Ágúst's natural way, and that he's not that into having his picture taken. I sometimes want to caption every pic I've seen of him -- what's the Icelandic for "Ben, are you taking my picture again?!"

Thank you, thoughtful.

This is how I remember it. The Global Gayby blog justified Ágúst being the bio-dad because they thought there would be a greater likelihood of him siring a red-haired child. In addition, something was also said about the biological relationship enhancing his parental feelings (and, presumably, his desire to be a parent).

Prior to seeing the birthing tub photos, this is what sent up red flags for me, but I really, really hope that those photos are depicting reality, especially for Daniel.

I do wonder what would have happened if the baby had been a girl...

[Mama Mia]

LIttle Daniel is much better off with his Dads. Hopefully he never meets Lauren and is not forced into a relationship with her. Siblings... well he can decide at 18 by which time they will have little in common. .

I really don't understand this part. Maybe you could explain your reasoning? Why would Daniel have any more or less say in his relationship with the girls than his sisters would? Wouldn't all the children be on equal footing in this regard? If not - why not?

[happy atheist]

Lauren is pumping breast milk for Daniel. I think it's good that she's not nursing him, and it's great that he'll have breast milk for a while.

[Eponine]

This is the only moral and logical stance to take. Surrogacy is NOT right and contrary to everything we know to be right about pre birth bonding and identity.

There are many things I would like in life but I can't have them. I'm not going to use another person's body to procure them either.

This stance confuses me because it's so very black-and-white. Not all surrogates are separated from their child immediately after birth, and not all babies born via surrogate never know their bio moms. My neighbor chose to become a single dad, and spent a month living near his son's bio mom after the birth, so the baby could have all the good post-birth mother experiences, for ease of feeding, etc. She continued to send breast milk until just recently, and the baby is now about 8 months old. The baby will grow up knowing and having an attachment to his bio mother, but not living in the same place. Is this situation still cruel and harmful? It seemed to me that my neighbor navigated it in the best possible way for all parties but I don't know enough about this issue I guess.

At what point is it damaging to take a baby away from its birth mother? It seems like some people are arguing that children should be kept with their birth mothers at all costs, unless something is seriously wrong with the mother or the family situation; that does not seem practical when some people just turn out to not be bad parents without any extenuating circumstances. I think everyone knows people who would have been better off not raised by their biological parents - so at what point does it benefit a child to leave a situation that is less than ideal vs stay with their biological parents?