Sparkling Adventures in Child Neglect - "Gayby" is Born!

[Eternalbluepearl]

Has crazy, I mean Lauren, posted since the birth? I wonder when she will be leaving Iceland. Its odd to me, that she imagines her daughters going to visit these dads independently. No thought of the emotions of seeing their brother. She makes it sound like she did this surrogacy thing for the girls own good.

[August]

To be honest, even if only five percent or fewer of adults have an issue with their conception, potential parents need to listen because you have to assume your child will be one of them. I like the angry fifteen year old test : if you can convincingly defend your actions against your angry teenager in a shouting match, go ahead and do what you're planning.

Dude.

Reread what you just quoted to me. You'll notice LB refers to "infant adoption" as a form of trafficking. Not "any form of adoption".

If you're going to get shirty about people pickup up meaning and nuance, it'd behove you to get your own house in order first.

There is no one on this thread calling older child/foster care adoption into question.

Which is ironic, because a lot of older child/foster care adoptions are actual, real, prosecuted human trafficking. Have you heard of the cass in Haiti and Uganda where parents drop kids at orphanages while they deal with some issues, go back to get them and the kids have been sold off overseas?

That's not saying there aren't huge issues of coercion even in domestic infant adoption which is not at arm's length, and issues around coercion in paying for gametes or surrogacy. Then there are all the issues about secrecy. But the actual handing over of reproductive material or a child is not inherently bad.

[August]

Has crazy, I mean Lauren, posted since the birth? I wonder when she will be leaving Iceland. Its odd to me, that she imagines her daughters going to visit these dads independently. No thought of the emotions of seeing their brother. She makes it sound like she did this surrogacy thing for the girls own good.

Hotels are really expensive! I only wish my own mother had had a surrogacy career, because we're planning a trip to Hawaii and damn it would be nice to have somewhere to stay.

[treemom]

To be honest, even if only five percent or fewer of adults have an issue with their conception, potential parents need to listen because you have to assume your child will be one of them. I like the angry fifteen year old test : if you can convincingly defend your actions against your angry teenager in a shouting match, go ahead and do what you're planning.

Which is ironic, because a lot of older child/foster care adoptions are actual, real, prosecuted human trafficking. Have you heard of the cass in Haiti and Uganda where parents drop kids at orphanages while they deal with some issues, go back to get them and the kids have been sold off overseas?

That's not saying there aren't huge issues of coercion even in domestic infant adoption which is not at arm's length, and issues around coercion in paying for gametes or surrogacy. Then there are all the issues about secrecy. But the actual handing over of reproductive material or a child is not inherently bad.

I agree with you. I am not pretending like infant adoption or surrogacy presents no issues, but non infant adoption is typically where much of the abuse/re-homing, etc comes in. It is for me far more fraught with ethical issues. Obviously we know institutionalized care is an issue, but that doesn't mean adoption is the answer. (It doesn't mean adoption isnt the answer for some kids). Adoption advocacy organizations and many agencies tell people on both sides of it not quite truths to continue the big business of "orphan care".

Not every person is going to care about their genetic material but many people are going to feel like there is something missing if they are adopted or born of donated eggs. (I have absolutely no problem ethically with gestational surrogacy assuming there is no coercion and there is the appropriate support for the surrogate if she needs it) but that doesn't mean those concerns mean we should never consider any adoption or surrogacy. I don't personally feel like there are inherent ethical issues with adoption or surrogacy, although they can quickly arise.

[2xx1xy1JD]

LadyBlue:

Laws vary from place to place, and they can be theoretically changed.

Where I live (Ontario, Canada), there have been 2 changes in adoption which I consider to be really significant.

1. It is now possible to make "Openness" orders or agreements which allow the child to have continuing communication/relationship with a birth relative, previous foster parent, family or community member who had been important to them, adoptive parent of a birth sibling, or member of a native child's band.

2. Adopted children over 18 have the right to disclosure of their records. More information: http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/progr ... y/records/

I was very excited when the Openness orders were permitted. Prior to that, we often had really difficult decisions to make in cases where no realistic plan for existed for a child getting out of foster care within a reasonable period of time, but where the child had important relationships with siblings, extended family or had positive visits with parents. It can be hard to find an adoption placement that keeps 4 siblings together, for example, but it's easier to find a few adoptive parents who are willing to agree to an openness order so that the kids can stay in touch. A mom may have a long-term struggle with addiction, but still love her children and be capable of exchanging cards and having occasional calls or visits. A grandparent may not be physically able to take on primary care of a child, but may still have a relationship. A parent may have an illness or disability (including mental illness) that prevents them from parenting, but they can still have a role in a child's life.

I'd like to see similar rules with surrogacy and gamete donation that we currently have with adoption - similar disclosure provisions, legal clarity over who the parents are, home studies and background checks.

[Idolatry]

Has crazy, I mean Lauren, posted since the birth? I wonder when she will be leaving Iceland. Its odd to me, that she imagines her daughters going to visit these dads independently. No thought of the emotions of seeing their brother. She makes it sound like she did this surrogacy thing for the girls own good.

Well there's no one who handles loss and boundaries quite like Lauren. I'm sure this will all just be super sparkly all around.

[Firiel]

Well, despite hours searching, I couldn't find the specific study I was referring to. Most likely because it's from the pre-internet era. I did find these these, that show maternal mental state during pregnancy affects the baby. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17513986

http://www.earlyhumandevelopment.com/ar ... 0/abstract

https://birthpsychology.com/content/bor ... Gwl-smIDFI

Just wanted to say I have no doubt that a woman's mental state during pregnancy can affect her child. Since I learned about that phenomenon, I've wondered about how my mom's anxiety while pregnant affected me. It's the specifics that a fetus knows whether it is unwanted or not.

That second study you posted (specifically about unwanted pregnancies) is definitely interesting and seems to do a good job in general of exploring what it is like for a child to be born to and raised in (?) a home where it is unwanted. But I don't see anything set in place to account for the different stress levels in an unwanted pregnancy or in the way a newborn might be treated if it is truly wanted as opposed to unwanted (which that study didn't really need to do, as that wasn't really its intent).

My personal suspicion is that the "unwanted pregnancy" hormones that the study you mentioned discovered were actually just a product of an unhealthy mental state of the mother which, while more likely in an unwanted pregnancy, is probably just as likely to happen to a woman who planned a traditional pregnancy in a healthy relationship as it is to a woman who has a healthy relationship with the family for whom she is a gestational surrogate.

[happy atheist]

If children don't have an inherent right to a mother....who should create, gestate and birth them? Gorillas? Oxygenated balloons? Every child that is birthed HAS by its birthright, an inherent right to its mother. This is simply a biological fact. One that many people are now trying to do away with.

And if children don't have this inherent right, then what do they have an inherent right to? food? shelter? Why those things and not their mother? What kind of society breeds humans on demand to fulfil a will and desire? Oh, wait. We already know. It's been done before in Hitler's baby camps.

And the Godwin award goes to Annasopinion! Congratulations on bringing the discussion to its lowest point!

[Firiel]

And the Godwin award goes to Annasopinion! Congratulations on bringing the discussion to its lowest point!

:lol:

While coming up with a list of political and religious movements in another thread, I almost included fascism and/or Nazism, but then decided against it because of Godwin's law.

Good to know that adoption/surrogacy is not just fraught with difficult moral implications. It's not even simply human trafficking. It's full-on genocide now.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Just wanted to say I have no doubt that a woman's mental state during pregnancy can affect her child. Since I learned about that phenomenon, I've wondered about how my mom's anxiety while pregnant affected me. It's the specifics that a fetus knows whether it is unwanted or not.

That second study you posted (specifically about unwanted pregnancies) is definitely interesting and seems to do a good job in general of exploring what it is like for a child to be born to and raised in (?) a home where it is unwanted. But I don't see anything set in place to account for the different stress levels in an unwanted pregnancy or in the way a newborn might be treated if it is truly wanted as opposed to unwanted (which that study didn't really need to do, as that wasn't really its intent).

My personal suspicion is that the "unwanted pregnancy" hormones that the study you mentioned discovered were actually just a product of an unhealthy mental state of the mother which, while more likely in an unwanted pregnancy, is probably just as likely to happen to a woman who planned a traditional pregnancy in a healthy relationship as it is to a woman who has a healthy relationship with the family for whom she is a gestational surrogate.

You also can't really compare a planned surrogacy with an unwanted and unintended pregnancy. The stress levels will be different.

You may also have different maternal behaviors. I had some cases involving clients who got pregnant from rape, and decided to have their babies. They didn't want to terminate, and there was love and care on one level, but on another level there was also anger and hostility. I was pregnant with a long-awaited child at the same time as one of them, and the difference in our feelings and actions was pretty clear. It affected all sorts of small things, like diet and self-care.

[Firiel]

Something I will share regarding genetic donation... I looked into being an egg donor for a while. Gosh, the folks at the clinic were thrilled about me-- well-educated, tall, and blonde. I guess those traits are important to parents. I struggled some with whether I should do it. The biggest issue was that I struggle with anxiety and depression. I imagined what would happen if a child who was as miserable as I have been at points in my life found me and asked why I had donated my eggs knowing the pain that regular ol' life had caused me at times.

And I knew the only honest answer I could give was that I felt I needed the money for financial security. I would have felt terrible telling someone that. Terrible. I decided to go through with it anyway because I was in a bad relationship where I had no say in finances, and I felt like this money would give me some financial power because it was above and beyond my regular income and because it was me alone who brought the money in. I felt it could give me financial security.

Anyway, some hormone level wasn't high enough naturally in my body for me to make a good donor. I was disappointed at the time, but now I am really relieved. That wasn't something I should have done. I wish I had been able to come to that conclusion on my own in the time that it happened, but I'm just glad that luck/God/random happenstance kept me from making that mistake.

So I definitely to jive with all the comments about the problems with adoption and surrogacy. It needs to be done ethically and often isn't. I just find the blanket statements about ALL forms of either of these being human trafficking or comparable to the Holocaust or whatever unpalatable as well.

[August]

Something I will share regarding genetic donation... I looked into being an egg donor for a while. Gosh, the folks at the clinic were thrilled about me-- well-educated, tall, and blonde. I guess those traits are important to parents.

The first thing a person deals with when coming to terms with the need to use donor gametes is the loss of a genetic connection to their child. It's a huge deal, and very upsetting. One thing which can help them mourn that loss is the thought that they've always hated their nose, or their hair, or wished they were taller, or worried about Uncle Bill's bipolar or whatever. If you're not going to be related, why not choose the best relations for them? It's not unlike choosing a partner, only you get next to no imformation about their personality, so yes, the things that sell you at a Friday night meat market also sell you in donor files.

[nelliebelle1197]

Just wanted to say I have no doubt that a woman's mental state during pregnancy can affect her child. Since I learned about that phenomenon, I've wondered about how my mom's anxiety while pregnant affected me. It's the specifics that a fetus knows whether it is unwanted or not.

That second study you posted (specifically about unwanted pregnancies) is definitely interesting and seems to do a good job in general of exploring what it is like for a child to be born to and raised in (?) a home where it is unwanted. But I don't see anything set in place to account for the different stress levels in an unwanted pregnancy or in the way a newborn might be treated if it is truly wanted as opposed to unwanted (which that study didn't really need to do, as that wasn't really its intent).

My personal suspicion is that the "unwanted pregnancy" hormones that the study you mentioned discovered were actually just a product of an unhealthy mental state of the mother which, while more likely in an unwanted pregnancy, is probably just as likely to happen to a woman who planned a traditional pregnancy in a healthy relationship as it is to a woman who has a healthy relationship with the family for whom she is a gestational surrogate.

I am really unsure how these articles back up anti-surrogacy and adoption arguments. If anything, the "unwanted" bit really weakens the argument that keeps cropping up that biological links are so strong and all important. Also, some of these studies are really old- 30 plus years for two cites and a decade for another.

The article from 1988 was a follow up from a study done in 1978 and was specifically focused on women who were denied abortions and had children they did not want with the expectation of rearing those children. None of the children in the study were adopted out. They were all living with the biological mother. It is a very specific test study that doesn't have anything to do with adopted children. These kids were not wanted from conception and brought up by women who became their mothers after seeking abortion of the pregnancy at least once. None of these children were adopted out and given to healthy homes from the limited info in the abstract. It's more of an argument for safe abortion on demand. I see indications in the abstract that environmental factors (distant fathers are mentioned as well disengaged mothers) in the studied families may have additionally impacted negative outcomes for these children.

Another link is an abstract. The study was looking for a correlation between fetal and birth issues with high anxious pregnant women and another is an abstract of a study on birth complications in women suffering from depression and admits that "(f)ew prospective studies of human pregnancy have examined the consequences of prenatal exposure to stress and stress hormones." It had a test group of 247 women, was done in 2007 and there has been no follow up as best I can tell. Since the study focused on cortisol reaction, I am assuming (again, tiny little abstract not a detailed study available) that this test group was diagnosed with clinical depression.

None of these studies based on the very limited information provided seem to indicate that the biological mother is necessary for long-term successful child development. In fact, the Finnish studies suggests the opposite - unwanted children who stay with biological families that did not want them face many difficulties wanted children do not.

[dianapavelovna]

LadyBlue:

Laws vary from place to place, and they can be theoretically changed.

Where I live (Ontario, Canada), there have been 2 changes in adoption which I consider to be really significant.

1. It is now possible to make "Openness" orders or agreements which allow the child to have continuing communication/relationship with a birth relative, previous foster parent, family or community member who had been important to them, adoptive parent of a birth sibling, or member of a native child's band.

2. Adopted children over 18 have the right to disclosure of their records. More information: http://www.mcss.gov.on.ca/en/mcss/progr ... y/records/

I was very excited when the Openness orders were permitted. Prior to that, we often had really difficult decisions to make in cases where no realistic plan for existed for a child getting out of foster care within a reasonable period of time, but where the child had important relationships with siblings, extended family or had positive visits with parents. It can be hard to find an adoption placement that keeps 4 siblings together, for example, but it's easier to find a few adoptive parents who are willing to agree to an openness order so that the kids can stay in touch. A mom may have a long-term struggle with addiction, but still love her children and be capable of exchanging cards and having occasional calls or visits. A grandparent may not be physically able to take on primary care of a child, but may still have a relationship. A parent may have an illness or disability (including mental illness) that prevents them from parenting, but they can still have a role in a child's life.

I'd like to see similar rules with surrogacy and gamete donation that we currently have with adoption - similar disclosure provisions, legal clarity over who the parents are, home studies and background checks.

I work in foster care adoption in my state. Adoption is our first choice for all our kids, although permanent guardianship is also an option. The former is preferred because guardianship does not make the guardians legal parents of the children. The kids do not have inheritance rights, and they are not eligible for the same financial benefits adopted children are. However, if a child is placed with relatives who, for whatever reason, cannot pass an adoptive home study, we generally give guardianship to the relative(s) rather than yanking the kid and trying to find an unrelated adoptive home. Relatives and non-relatives both have access to all the records the agency has about the child before an adoption. They receive a copy of it after the adoption is consummated. After their 18th birthday, former foster youth can request a copy of their record. We're also having a shift where, when some time has passed after TPR and a child is still lingering in care, we go back to the biological family. Mom and/or dad may have gotten it together in the intervening years. There might be a relative who was unable to take the children initially, but whose circumstances have changed. Kids find their parents on their own on Facebook and ask if they can go back to them.

Conversations about adoption and surrogacy are very complicated and emotional. It's hard to make sweeping statements, but this is my general position. I believe that children have the right to know how they came to exist and the right to seek more information if they choose.

And I think Lauren should close up shop and focus on her daughters.

[Mama Mia]

You also can't really compare a planned surrogacy with an unwanted and unintended pregnancy. The stress levels will be different.

You may also have different maternal behaviors. I had some cases involving clients who got pregnant from rape, and decided to have their babies. They didn't want to terminate, and there was love and care on one level, but on another level there was also anger and hostility. I was pregnant with a long-awaited child at the same time as one of them, and the difference in our feelings and actions was pretty clear. It affected all sorts of small things, like diet and self-care.

That's exactly what my concern is with lumping together surrogacy and adoption. They just seem, for the pregnant woman/first mother to be two entirely different situations.

While I think we can all agree that there are a few situations where a woman plans becomes pregnant on her own and place the child for adoption. --- that certainly seems like it would be the most unusual outcome of a pregnancy. 99% of the time an infant placed for adoption has a mother who either found herself with an unwanted pregnancy -- or something very traumatic happened during the pregnancy-- and she feels she has no other way to cope with the situation than to relinquish her baby. Stress wise that would seem to be hugely different than being a planned surrogate. Even if you were just doing it for money.

Along the same lines, I understand that heightened stress levels during pregnancy can lead to difficulties for the infants --- but I think these studies miss some important questions ( at least in what I skimmed) . Like what were the mothers stress levels when they weren't pregnant? Are there studies of siblings whose mothers were in stressful situations during one pregnancy -- but not another? Are they studying a large group of women, some proportion of whom have anxiety issues or depression - and assuming the child's difficult behavior is due to hormone levels when it could be a pre-disposition to anxiety and depression. Or -- likely-- some combination of these things.

I thought the older study regarding the adopted children that stressed how as teens/adults they were more likely to act out impulsively, particularly sexually, REALLY interesting. They seemed to be drawing the conclusion that it was due to being adopted and unresolved feelings regarding adoption. But what I thought was that maybe there is just a genetic tendency to have a high sex drive and impulsivity. And, particularly back when the study was done, teen age sex= pregnancy= adoption.

I was also reminded of a very old family medical book my parents had when I was a child. It was probably written in the 1950's and had a section with photo stories illustrating various mental conditions/social problems. Like " Little Johnny barely speaks, , he is withdrawn, little Johnny's mother is cold and did not want little Johnny. Little Johnny is autistic" -or- " Tim has problems relating to his wife and co-workers, he is weak and easily intimidated. Tim's mother smothered him and dominated his father. That is why Tim is such a pussy" -- well not those exact words, but you get the idea. The common denominator in all the stories though - that even I noticed as a nerdy 9 year old -- everything is mommy's fault. Everything.

[tigerchild]

While it was only said outright so crudely a few times, as an adoptee I certainly experienced the expectation that parents and other adults in my life should worry that I'd be a slut like my mother. It was, frankly, in the era of closed adoptions and You Should Be Grateful, one of the few things I felt I knew about her. (Now as an adult I understand that it probably wasn't the case, who knows really, though.) I think that probably people should not discount that pressure as well. Just like I believe that having purity culture rammed down your throat increases the likelihood for dangerous behavior (uneducated sex, no protection, secretive behavior, ect.), I believe that in some cases the expectations surrounding adoption probably contribute much the same way towards certain behaviors.

I kind of hold the maternal stress studies with the same wariness that I feel towards the theories that gosh darn it, those darn refridgerator mothers are what causes autism. Life is stress. We're spoiled, most of us, in this day and age. I think the fetus is a little more resiliant, and has to have been, than we give it credit for, considering for the vast majority of human history they've been subjected to more stress in utero than a mother with anxiety.

[Phoenix]

I really don't understand this part. Maybe you could explain your reasoning? Why would Daniel have any more or less say in his relationship with the girls than his sisters would? Wouldn't all the children be on equal footing in this regard? If not - why not?

I chose 18 because in the US at least that is legal age to make your own decisions. (I don't know what the legal age is in Iceland or Australia.) You are correct his sisters would have equal legal and emotional footing in deciding if they wanted to look up their half-brother once they are 18 as well. However they will reach legal age a few years before Daniel. Daniel had no say in being born, given to this couple or being raised in Iceland. So I think it would be appropriate for him to be left alone to grow up and make his own decisions about how much he does or doesn't want to know about his biological family. He may be eager to meet his sisters, he may not. Only time and the peace to grow up without the chaos of Sparkling Lauren will tell.

Being raised in different cultures half a world apart will mean Daniel and his sisters will have little in common other than a biological bond. That bond may be critical or it may mean little to nothing. A lot of connection between siblings is based on shared experiences growing up in the same home, culture and family.

As I said in a different reply I think Daniel is better off with his Dad's because they are his best chance of his needs being met as a helpless infant and young child. Lauren's parenting track record leaves a lot to be desired.

Mama Mia, even if we don't agree on this one I wanted to say I find your posts thoughtful and well reasoned. I couldn't find a smilie for a salute but consider yourself respected.

[Mama Mia]

While it was only said outright so crudely a few times, as an adoptee I certainly experienced the expectation that parents and other adults in my life should worry that I'd be a slut like my mother. It was, frankly, in the era of closed adoptions and You Should Be Grateful, one of the few things I felt I knew about her. (Now as an adult I understand that it probably wasn't the case, who knows really, though.) I think that probably people should not discount that pressure as well. Just like I believe that having purity culture rammed down your throat increases the likelihood for dangerous behavior (uneducated sex, no protection, secretive behavior, ect.), I believe that in some cases the expectations surrounding adoption probably contribute much the same way towards certain behaviors.

interesting take on it! I'm sorry people treated you badly. When I read about the " sexually acting out" I really didn't think of it at all in terms of someone being a " slut". It just struck me that maybe some people are just more highly sexed, and especially as teens, more likely to act on those desires without planning it out. That's the way pretty much my entire family is. It's actually surprising, to me, when I hear about people methodically planning out when to lose their virginity, I mean obviously, it's a million times smarter -- it just doesn't fit my frame of reference. I made sure my kids had access to birth control, I had good comprehensive birth control info as a teen -- but to the best of my knowledge - nobody actually planned out their first time and used anything other than condoms ( and I think they lied about that) . And most people were very young. I know I'm not saying this right, at all, but I'm just trying to say that impulsive teen sexual activity seems more the norm than the exception - to me- so I can see how it's possibly a partially genetic thing.

I kind of hold the maternal stress studies with the same wariness that I feel towards the theories that gosh darn it, those darn refridgerator mothers are what causes autism. Life is stress. We're spoiled, most of us, in this day and age. I think the fetus is a little more resiliant, and has to have been, than we give it credit for, considering for the vast majority of human history they've been subjected to more stress in utero than a mother with anxiety

.

.

[Mama Mia]

I chose 18 because in the US at least that is legal age to make your own decisions. (I don't know what the legal age is in Iceland or Australia.) You are correct his sisters would have equal legal and emotional footing in deciding if they wanted to look up their half-brother once they are 18 as well. However they will reach legal age a few years before Daniel. Daniel had no say in being born, given to this couple or being raised in Iceland. So I think it would be appropriate for him to be left alone to grow up and make his own decisions about how much he does or doesn't want to know about his biological family. He may be eager to meet his sisters, he may not. Only time and the peace to grow up without the chaos of Sparkling Lauren will tell.

Being raised in different cultures half a world apart will mean Daniel and his sisters will have little in common other than a biological bond. That bond may be critical or it may mean little to nothing. A lot of connection between siblings is based on shared experiences growing up in the same home, culture and family.

As I said in a different reply I think Daniel is better off with his Dad's because they are his best chance of his needs being met as a helpless infant and young child. Lauren's parenting track record leaves a lot to be desired.

Mama Mia, even if we don't agree on this one I wanted to say I find your posts thoughtful and well reasoned. I couldn't find a smilie for a salute but consider yourself respected.

Thank you Phoenix ! That was really nice to hear -- I love the deeper conversations on here that allow me to look at my own opinions - and sometimes even modify them :)

I see what you mean about waiting until Daniel is an adult for contact, being as he is the youngest of all the children.

It made me wonder though....., in this day and age is it even a realistic expectation, or something that any of the adults can control? With the saturation of social media -- could any parent in a surrogate /adoptive situation have an expectation that the child ( any of the children) won't be sought out and contacted by a sibling, parent, grandparent, cousin? While the Dad's might tell 13 year old Daniel not to search -- there isn't really anything they could do to stop it. Or to keep 15 year old Lana from sending her brother a friend request.

I know a ton of people who have found half-siblings ( hate that term, but it applies here), Dad's they've never met, grandparents etc . off of Facebook. The family members weren't involved with adoption or surrogacy, more that one or the other parent had dropped out of the picture and so there was no relationship , or sometimes knowledge, of that side of the family.

Interestingly, many of the siblings, although they never knew each other -- seem to really enjoy the connection. At least anecdotally, with the people I know. ...wandering down this same path -- I wonder if the advent if a Facebook level relationship might make some parents/children/siblings be more comfortable with on-going contact? It doesn't take much effort, it doesn't need to be particularly personal or individual - but gives the opportunity to see photos and know each other to some degree.

[FJismyheadship]

The thought posed above about waiting until Daniel is 18 is a very good point.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

I have a thirteen year old brother. I have never met him. I only know about him because my brother and my grandmother have big mouths. Okay, my brother mentioned him first, and then I set the stage to get it from my grandmother (not that hard to do really) so that I could blame it on her when I asked my dad about it.

Anyway, recently I went looking on facebook and found his mothers page. I went through her pictures and found some of him. I also checked his older sisters pages who I knew briefly. My brother doesn't have a Facebook page. I don't know if he knows about our father, me, or our brothers. And even if he DID have Facebook, I wouldn't talk to him. I might check to see whats going on in his world, see how he is doing and all that. My brother who is two years younger than me on the other hand? I could easily see him contacting the lost brother. I could maybe see him waiting until the day he turned 18 to do it, but I know he would do it. I, on the other hand, although I am extremely curious do not want to be the cause of hurt. I don't want to be all "Hey, I'm your sister you never met. I'm 13 years older than you, and you have two other older brothers, and one younger brother" Because I would personally be shocked if someone came to me and said "Hey, you are my sister!"

I hope Daniel knows that he has a mother and sisters out there. I hope he knows that so that when he gets older he can choose to seek them out. I hope he gets the answers to all of his questions as he gets older, no matter what they are. I hope whatever is best for Daniel in the long run is what plays out accordingly. Not what the adults in his life want for him or themselves, but whatever is truly best for him.

[happy atheist]

I suppose Lauren will call it self-determing, but I would use a different word for it. No one this young should be dying their hair.

In other news, here's the happy family. They look like they're doing well.

[browncoatslytherin]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

she has another post up on tsu. this is what she says:

"i'm continually surprised at how the vulnerability that i've offered in my online writings polarise readers and lead people to make assumptions that are completely false. i wrote honestly about how i felt with pnd after elijah's birth. The duration of my depression plus the fact that i self-diagnosed and successfully combated it has been largely ignored by those who wish to simply label me as mentally unstable. i believe that my success in handling this short bout of pnd plus my proven strong mental state following the death of elijah and incarceration of david have demonstrated that i am capable of consciously processing the dark times and re-emerging in an attitude of hope. in a personal update, i haven't yet descended into the cliched baby blues. i wonder if the twice-daily placenta pills really have staved off the stereotypical weepy days or if it's still coming. we'll see.

[docmom]

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

she has another post up on tsu. this is what she says:

"i'm continually surprised at how the vulnerability that i've offered in my online writings polarise readers and lead people to make assumptions that are completely false. i wrote honestly about how i felt with pnd after elijah's birth. The duration of my depression plus the fact that i self-diagnosed and successfully combated it has been largely ignored by those who wish to simply label me as mentally unstable. i believe that my success in handling this short bout of pnd plus my proven strong mental state following the death of elijah and incarceration of david have demonstrated that i am capable of consciously processing the dark times and re-emerging in an attitude of hope. in a personal update, i haven't yet descended into the cliched baby blues. i wonder if the twice-daily placenta pills really have staved off the stereotypical weepy days or if it's still coming. we'll see.

I'm not so sure the placenta is staving off the depression. She posted this on her public FB page:

"When you find yourself in the deepest darkness, act as though the light has already arrived."

[ladyaudley]

How old is Aisha, nine? I died my hair when I was ten. Or is that brioni? Whichever one it is is definitely usually distancing herself from the redhead brood...

[freejugar]

is the baby a redhead?