Sparkling Adventures in Child Neglect - "Gayby" is Born!

[browncoatslytherin]

It's Lauren's egg. She's a magical redhead, remember? They put the sperm in a disposable menstrual cup which she inserted.

that just sounds so squicky to me :brain-bleach:

[So Many Lies]

That's not a decision the adults get to make for the children. They are not property, they are people.

Do you really advocate closed and burned adoptions? Secret and anonymous gamete donation? We did all that, and it was disastrous. Siblings have the right to know each other, period.

August I agree totally. The child doesn't "belong" to anyone.

The (selfish) decisions adults make often have unforseen consequences for the Child. I've got an estranged bio dad who I was warned off finding by my mother ("you'll be very disappointed in what you find") but I did find him and it was necessary for understanding my "story". I had a perfectly satisfying life without him and a loving family but it was a missing piece. I didn't feel like that as a child/ young person, but when I got married I did - I HAD to know.

I also have maori half siblings who are 9 and 10 and I wish I had found them sooner as they were really pleased to meet me and their mother is a generous woman who encourages me. My own mother still can't accept all this and is very possessive about me.

My point is: if you aren't open and honest and you want to pretend a parent didn't exist it has consequences.

[nelliebelle1197]

No.

I'm not going to hold these guys to a different standard. They chose a surrogate off the books with previous mental health issues and a recently deceased son.

Sorry but no. That isn't right.

Would I endorse similar behavior in a hetero couple. Absolutely not.

Now this I agree with you on. The extra-legal part I can shrug at a little; I don't know the rationale legally or culturally, but it seems a little harsh to legislate adults making choices on childbirth and seems unfair to those who cannot carry children. But the choosing Lauren part?! Jesus on bobsled, what were these guys thinking?

I have just been thrown for a loop as to why CPS needs to be called on Lauren for her parenting in some threads yet in this thread it is oh so important for the baby to know his "mother" just because of a biological link. The woman is a nutjob and a neglectful mother. I would take my baby and run if I was Agust!

[So Many Lies]

Because even if your parent is nuts you need to know the even if at arm's length.

[nelliebelle1197]

August I agree totally. The child doesn't "belong" to anyone.

The (selfish) decisions adults make often have unforseen consequences for the Child. I've got an estranged bio dad who I was warned off finding by my mother ("you'll be very disappointed in what you find") but I did find him and it was necessary for understanding my "story". I had a perfectly satisfying life without him and a loving family but it was a missing piece. I didn't feel like that as a child/ young person, but when I got married I did - I HAD to know.

I also have maori half siblings who are 9 and 10 and I wish I had found them sooner as they were really pleased to meet me and their mother is a generous woman who encourages me. My own mother still can't accept all this and is very possessive about me.

My point is: if you aren't open and honest and you want to pretend a parent didn't exist it has consequences.

My situation is very, VERY similar, though my mother is not possessive and did not try to warn me off. I never felt like anything was missing and I have never desired to meet my late bio father or his children. And that is my point. People are different and what you need or someone else needs may not be what another person needs. My mother, grandparents and assorted relatives made me complete. I did not even realize that I did not have a father and that it was expected until I was around 9,so my mom detailed the whole sordid affair to me. She stilled loved him and I think still does today.

There is no right answer to any of this. It is what works in a given circumstance. In yours, you needed your father. I am really pleased for you that you got a good one!

In mine, I really did not and I look just like the man. I am told my older half sister and I could be twins. The only thing I am curious about is from where his ancestors hail, just out of curiosity. But even that doesn't spark me enough to track it down. My mom's family has a crazy, colorful history and I am content with it being all I have.

[So Many Lies]

But you may have felt differently if it was part of your story from birth. That's all I'm saying. You wouldn't have lost anything, you may have gained something. It's not a good idea to be deprived of the opportunity on the whims of adults.

I respect what your saying and I used to feel the same. But I don't anymore.

What they feel is "best" is really just best for themselves.

People thought it was best to remove unmarried mother's children in the past and it was in many cases, a bad way of doing things but done in the name of the interests of the child.

[nelliebelle1197]

Because even if your parent is nuts you need to know the even if at arm's length.

Why? I am not being confrontational. I am genuinely curious as to why you feel that way. I am, btw, absolutely not advocating that the fathers lie to the child or keep Lauren a secret. I just don't get why everyone automatically assume the biological connection is so important to everyone. My sister in law in Australia met her bio mom and feels like it was the biggest mistake of her life. My uncles rejected their brother because he was a reminder that their mom cheated on my grandfather while he was in Europe during WWII (and btw, this child went through the famous Memphis adoption mill!); I could care less about my paternal side. For every good story, there is another story of indifference or pain. Help me out here.

[nelliebelle1197]

that just sounds so squicky to me :brain-bleach:

I now remember reading that. And I now remember why I forgot.

[Idolatry]

No.

I'm not going to hold these guys to a different standard. They chose a surrogate off the books with previous mental health issues and a recently deceased son.

Sorry but no. That isn't right.

Would I endorse similar behavior in a hetero couple. Absolutely not.

Exactly this. It's irrelevant that they're gay, it's that they chose a woman to be a questionably legal surrogate whose baby was murdered and has no income and a bunch of kids who WILL be impacted by this bizarre scenario. Most sperm donors don't have four kids watching on after being dragged a world away to give up a baby.

At least in my US state, legal surrogacy requires psych exams, and all kinds of hoops. There's a reason you can't just pick up any unemployed narcissistic desperate single mom who just had a baby murdered with a martyr complex to be your brood mare, at least in my state. It's literally called human trafficking here. Screw these guys.

[So Many Lies]

I now remember reading that. And I now remember why I forgot.

Also don't forget Lauren called it a "love affair".

[nelliebelle1197]

Exactly this. It's irrelevant that they're gay, it's that they chose a woman to be a questionably legal surrogate whose baby was murdered and has no income and a bunch of kids who WILL be impacted by this bizarre scenario. Most sperm donors don't have four kids watching on after being dragged a world away to give up a baby.

At least in my US state, legal surrogacy requires psych exams, and all kinds of hoops. There's a reason you can't just pick up any unemployed narcissistic desperate single mom who just had a baby murdered with a martyr complex to be your brood mare, at least in my state. It's literally called human trafficking here. Screw these guys.

I agree and would love to know the rationale behind the choice even though it is none of my damn business. Is she the only one who took the bait when the baby fever was out of control? Did Lauren lie about who she was until it was too late to stop? Are they manipulative jerks with an agenda? Was it like an awful match.com date when the other person used old photos and someone else's profile and you don't realize it until you are already in the car with them?

Inquiring minds wanna know, boys.

[August]

Nellie, given how massive both hers and Ben's internet presences are there is no way they can plead ignorance. He's a member of all sorts of gay parenting things (a community in which surrogacy is more common), they did foster care training. It has to be a ploy of some sort, like she'd never win in a custody battle.

[So Many Lies]

Why? I am not being confrontational. I am genuinely curious as to why you feel that way. I am, btw, absolutely not advocating that the fathers lie to the child or keep Lauren a secret. I just don't get why everyone automatically assume the biological connection is so important to everyone. My sister in law in Australia met her bio mom and feels like it was the biggest mistake of her life. My uncles rejected their brother because he was a reminder that their mom cheated on my grandfather while he was in Europe during WWII (and btw, this child went through the famous Memphis adoption mill!); I could care less about my paternal side. For every good story, there is another story of indifference or pain. Help me out here.

Don't worry. I don't mind. BTW I didn't get a "Dad" out of the saga. My mother was right. He was a colossal jerk and still is. He's rather unsavory and has spent time in jail.

But it's my right to make that choice for myself. And I do see that regardless of his failures we do have common traits. I keep in contact with them as I would any family member...I don't love their lifestyle but I wouldn't cut them off. They are part of my life and biological heritage. It wasn't up to my mother to make that call. She should have lightly encouraged the relationship from the start, even if just by letters or telephone.

You can call it primal. Or you can call it biological heritage but I'm not going to encourage cutting off a child from there bloodlines no matter what. It's a part and parcel of who you are.

Even if your ambivalent as I was I accept the fact I was ron bed because my old lady wanted to make a clean getaway. But they forgot one thing. I'm a person not a shared CD collection or a rug.

[So Many Lies]

That's meant to say "robbed" not "ron bed" lol

[So Many Lies]

Nellie, given how massive both hers and Ben's internet presences are there is no way they can plead ignorance. He's a member of all sorts of gay parenting things (a community in which surrogacy is more common), they did foster care training. It has to be a ploy of some sort, like she'd never win in a custody battle.

Must be. They are both Internet savvy.

I felt a bit sad when in her instagram it said, "Iceland is not as cold as you may assume". I assume it's very cold and it's going to get much colder and I don't mean the weather.

[Evilbad]

Exactly this. It's irrelevant that they're gay, it's that they chose a woman to be a questionably legal surrogate whose baby was murdered and has no income and a bunch of kids who WILL be impacted by this bizarre scenario. Most sperm donors don't have four kids watching on after being dragged a world away to give up a baby.

At least in my US state, legal surrogacy requires psych exams, and all kinds of hoops. There's a reason you can't just pick up any unemployed narcissistic desperate single mom who just had a baby murdered with a martyr complex to be your brood mare, at least in my state. It's literally called human trafficking here. Screw these guys.

[emily]

I now remember reading that. And I now remember why I forgot.

I love the wayback machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140517092 ... gayby.com/

[So Many Lies]

Ah yes the "love affair". Urg. Standards are low if this qualifies for a love affair.

[nausicaa]

I am shocked by this statement. The child belongs to the fathers, not Lauren. Why on earth would they have any business intruding on this family if the fathers or child do not want it? They biologically related, but this is not their brother

I can understand feeling this way about Lauren, who chose surrogacy knowing all that went with it, but the girls had no say in any of this. Just as Daniel is entitled to whatever feelings he likes about his biological relations, and those feelings should be respected, I strongly believe that Lauren's daughters are just as entitled to their own feelings as well.

Some people do feel that a biological connection is important and makes someone a sibling. What if one of the girls feels a profound sense of loss at not knowing her biological half-brother as an adult? Doesn't she have the right to reach out to him? (He would of course also have the right to refuse contact). These girls were not consenting adults in this who should have "known the rules" of surrogacy, so I don't believe it's fair to ask them to suck it up if they discover they are not the sort of person who can emotionally separate themselves and deal with a surrogacy the way it should ideally be dealt with.

I'm uncomfortable with how Lauren's daughters feelings are being dictated by all of the adults in this situation in pursuit of the adults' desires, and it's something that is really giving me pause about surrogacy of all kinds (a topic I really hadn't given much thought to at all to before this thread).

[hoipolloi]

I love the wayback machine.

https://web.archive.org/web/20140517092 ... gayby.com/

Thanks for this!

Quotes like the following put a different light on who was in the birthing pool and when:

A “gold star gay†is a gay man who has never touched a vagina. Some even count birth, so only those born via C-section are truly gold star gays, or even platinum star, but I only count adult decisions. :-P But I mention this because both Titus and I have our gold stars.

[So Many Lies]

Bad luck if gayby was a girl then. Not a sentiment I'm ever going to endorse.

[FJismyheadship]

Bad luck if gayby was a girl then. Not a sentiment I'm ever going to endorse.

How? He said he only counted adult decisions. To me that means that if he had decided to have sex with Lauren, he wouldn't be "gold star" Watching the birth of his son, or changing a little girls diaper has nothing to do with that... at least not the kind of adult decisions I think he was talking about.

[So Many Lies]

If I said, "I'm a gold star straight". "I've never been touched by a lesbian or even a vagina since I'm a cesarean birth" ergo my hetero pedigree is untainted I think I'd raise more than a few eyebrows.

[fundiefan]

Happy for a safe delivery and what looks to be parents who WANT nothing more than that new life.

I just still can't get past the whole Lauren factor. She's over the bend and her postpartum issues can - and probably will - complicate things.

In a perfect world, those two men, however misguided, will raise a happy family. This is not a perfect world though and something is going to go bad. Really, really bad. For someone.

[nelliebelle1197]

I can understand feeling this way about Lauren, who chose surrogacy knowing all that went with it, but the girls had no say in any of this. Just as Daniel is entitled to whatever feelings he likes about his biological relations, and those feelings should be respected, I strongly believe that Lauren's daughters are just as entitled to their own feelings as well.

Some people do feel that a biological connection is important and makes someone a sibling. What if one of the girls feels a profound sense of loss at not knowing her biological half-brother as an adult? Doesn't she have the right to reach out to him? (He would of course also have the right to refuse contact). These girls were not consenting adults in this who should have "known the rules" of surrogacy, so I don't believe it's fair to ask them to suck it up if they discover they are not the sort of person who can emotionally separate themselves and deal with a surrogacy the way it should ideally be dealt with.

I'm uncomfortable with how Lauren's daughters feelings are being dictated by all of the adults in this situation in pursuit of the adults' desires, and it's something that is really giving me pause about surrogacy of all kinds (a topic I really hadn't given much thought to at all to before this thread).

I hear you. I don't completely agree but I get the point. I am sure that Lauren is not handling this well. Combining all the stories and thoughts I hear in this thread along with personal experience, it really just points me back to how unique we all are and how a set of circumstances really link up to shape who we are and what is important to us. The variety in us as a species is really astounding (which is why I rarely trust studies unless they back up what I think :shifty-kitty: )

In the end and back on topic, Lauren is going to fumble this with her daughters. There is no way those kids are not emotionally numb and confused when you add this .... whatever... to the mix, I can only keep my fingers crossed and hope for them. Also, while some of the comments made me a little uneasy, I do now think many of them were more situational specific than homophobic, though a few still give me pause.

I really wonder what these men were thinking in choosing her. One could really come at it from the perspective that they calculatedly chose a complete mess of a woman so they would have no birth mother issues. But it is also just as likely that they were desperate, had a limited time frame, limited resources that she accommodated, or that they even think she is "cool". She may have just fit what they wanted physically. We don't know. But I really want to!