Lori-- submit to men that aren't your husband

[docmom]

Since when is Lori a KJV fundie?

She's not so much a KJV fundie as a Pearl humper...

[feministxtian]

she is so full of shit. I work in a male-dominated industry. As a matter of fact I am the only woman in the office right now. I will not "submit" or "win them without a word"...it doesn't work that way.

[nokidsmom]

she is so full of shit. I work in a male-dominated industry. As a matter of fact I am the only woman in the office right now. I will not "submit" or "win them without a word"...it doesn't work that way.

I worked in an all male office full of fundie-lite, patriarchal types with SAHWs and I sure as hell didn't submit. I didn't mess around with that or "winning without a word", in fact they heard plenty.

[feministxtian]

I worked in an all male office full of fundie-lite, patriarchal types with SAHWs and I sure as hell didn't submit. I didn't mess around with that or "winning without a word", in fact they heard plenty.

Fortunately its not that way here...they guys are cool...they listen to me and if they're off base with a design, I let them know. I DO get treated with a lot of respect and I like that. It has nothing to do with my tits and everything to do with the knowledge I bring to my job.

[nokidsmom]

Fortunately its not that way here...they guys are cool...they listen to me and if they're off base with a design, I let them know. I DO get treated with a lot of respect and I like that. It has nothing to do with my tits and everything to do with the knowledge I bring to my job.

I work in a mostly male dominated office now and I have been treated with respect, there's only one who seems to have issues with working women but he's got a boss that slaps him down (figuratively) when he gets condescending.

The office mentioned above, the guys were mostly OK and didn't give me trouble but that might have been because I was the only one with the technical knowledge to fix their data sharing PC which was their lifeline. I left because I didn't think that the current manager would ever give me a raise because in his view, I was A) only working for pin money and B) I would quit when I had kids anyway (I was mid 30s at the time).

ETA: They heard plenty from me simply because I wasn't the quiet type to "win without a word", in short I was vocal and opinionated over whatever was happening.

[salex]

I thought part of the reason fundies gave for women not working outside the home was they didn't want their wives answering to other men?

[lilwriter85]

I'm getting caught up on the latest Lori shit. The post about submitting to men and DTWS was stupid. First off, Lori said she rarely watches the show due to some of the clothing the women wear. Not surprising there. But she is idiot to think Meryl "submitted" to Maks. As a couple of previous posters mentioned, Meryl had a lot of dance training and experience prior to DWTS. Maks' arrogant attitude has been well known for years and Hope Solo claimed he slapped her during her season. Maks has denied that and I doubt we will ever know the real story.

As someone else, Maks lucked out being paired with Meryl. DWTS has gotten shit in the past because of some of the contestants' previous dance experience and training. I remember people were pissed when Kristi Yamaguchi and Nicole Scherinzinger were contestants.

I bet if Sadie Robertson makes to the finals, Lori will watch DWTS to fangirl over godly Sadie and the Roberston family. She will then post about how Willie approved of Sadie's outfits and routines.

As for women submitting to men in other workplaces and situations, I wonder what Lori would tell women in supervisor or executive roles.

[jerkit]

I'm getting caught up on the latest Lori shit. The post about submitting to men and DTWS was stupid. First off, Lori said she rarely watches the show due to some of the clothing the women wear. Not surprising there. But she is idiot to think Meryl "submitted" to Maks. As a couple of previous posters mentioned, Meryl had a lot of dance training and experience prior to DWTS. Maks' arrogant attitude has been well known for years and Hope Solo claimed he slapped her during her season. Maks has denied that and I doubt we will ever know the real story.

As someone else, Maks lucked out being paired with Meryl. DWTS has gotten shit in the past because of some of the contestants' previous dance experience and training. I remember people were pissed when Kristi Yamaguchi and Nicole Scherinzinger were contestants.

I bet if Sadie Robertson makes to the finals, Lori will watch DWTS to fangirl over godly Sadie and the Roberston family. She will then post about how Willie approved of Sadie's outfits and routines.

As for women submitting to men in other workplaces and situations, I wonder what Lori would tell women in supervisor or executive roles.

Quit your job, go home, and be a submissive helpmeet.

[Full enough quiver]

President Obama is a man. Does that mean Lori should stfu and submit to him? Just curious. A friend of my husband's propositioned me once. Should I have done it, since he is a man? My poor female brain is confused.

[lilwriter85]

President Obama is a man. Does that mean Lori should stfu and submit to him? Just curious. A friend of my husband's propositioned me once. Should I have done it, since he is a man? My poor female brain is confused.

I would love for someone to tell her that. I don't she would know how to respond. But I can maybe see Lori throwing out the "Obama is weak because he didn't have a father in his life" excuse as not to submitting.

[feministxtian]

I would love for someone to tell her that. I don't she would know how to respond. But I can maybe see Lori throwing out the "Obama is weak because he didn't have a father in his life" excuse as not to submitting.

Where the hell did that come from? I thought it was all about "because penis"

[GolightlyGrrl]

I thought part of the reason fundies gave for women not working outside the home was they didn't want their wives answering to other men?

But what if your boss is a woman?

[salex]

But what if your boss is a woman?

I think that fear is why the fundies tend to want men to be self employed because WTF might happen if one of them had to report to a woman!!

(See also Steve Maxwell???)

[Burris]

The Bible does not say all women should submit to all men. (Such a belief would be an affront to self-styled patriarchs.)

The relationship between one man and one woman is seen, by religious conservatives at least, as the cornerstone of Christian culture. In Ephesians 5:22, women are told to submit themselves – that is, to engage in an act of will - to their own husbands: “Submit yourself to your own husband.â€

This exclusivity is recalled by verses that compare husband and wife to one flesh, arguing that each belongs to the other ( e.g.,1 Corinthians 7:4).

There are several Biblical examples of where women did good works, and were praised for them, specifically because they disobeyed their husbands. (The most obvious case is that of Abigail, whose quick thinking likely saved her dim-witted husband from the gallows.)

Another story – that of the Hebrew midwives Shiphrah and Puah – shows women disobeying the King of Egypt. For this, they were praised (Exodus 1:15-17).

It’s surprising that Lori is capable of developing something of a parable here, as it relates to the dancers Meryl and Maks. Lori goes so far as to argue that these non-relatives, who share a common sport, should adopt her view of the Biblical family dynamic – i.e., that the woman yields to the man without complaint so that she might win him by her chaste conduct (1 Peter).

Oh, what fun! It’s easy to create a parable based on the information Lori provides. (Such a parable is not meant to represent anyone specific, living or dead.)

The Parable of the Dancing Couple

“A man appeared, and Pride was his name. He enjoyed ballroom dancing and earnestly sought a partner whose contributions would allow him to succeed at the sport he loved.

“But Pride had a problem – a flaw. All the female dancers of his acquaintance – and perhaps a great many more who had never met the man – were aware of his reputation as a waspish and hurtful perfectionist. Devoid of all humour, yes; ever the miserable man.

“As other men and women partnered, Pride was yet alone.

“It happened, then, that Patience met Pride and discovered through the course of their first conversation that both were skilled dancers.

“At first, Patience merely tolerated the outbursts of Pride, accepting that he not only lead the dance but choreograph it as well. With this act of hubris, Pride took from Patience that portion of the creative process – choreography - over which she usually had domain.

“And so Pride robbed Patience, showing disrespect for that singular individual who would otherwise come along side him to enhance his performance and enliven his art on the dance-floor.

“It came as a shock to Pride, that day when Patience publicly pushed herself into the lead: If he would not give her respect, she would take it even if doing so humiliated both of them. The result, of course, was a disaster as patrons covered their mouths to hide shock or even amusement at the various missteps taken by a pair of uncooperative leaders.â€

Before examining what may have happened next, it’s time for a digression of sorts:

There’s no deep secret to cultivating a good-natured respect between and among individuals, so long as all parties are acting in good faith. The people in question could be spouses or athletic partners or comrades or workmates – the most effective attitude that underlie all productive communication are – at least so far as I know – the same:

** Respect – An attitude of admiration…

** Trust – A high degree of confidence...

** Kindness – A generous and compassionate attitude…

** Mercy – Unmerited grace; compassion…a strong sympathy shown to someone…

** Communication – …the ongoing, deliberate, and symmetrical exchange of thoughts, ideas, feelings, and other information.

** Deference – Awe and the willingness to submit to the will of another person in whom one has faith are the characteristics of deference. (The Holy Estate of Marriage, page 18)

As I mentioned above, the key is good faith: Both partners will act in earnest if they want the relationship to work. If that commitment is absent, and even one partner is disinterested, the partnership will fail.

No one person should have to dehumanize herself, or allow herself to be dehumanized by someone else, merely because she believes – and this, despite years of evidence to the contrary – that she can change the person she's with.

(If someone wouldn’t want an angry misanthropic sociopath for a dance partner, how much less appealing would such a person be when the topic of marriage is raised?)

Anyway, the Parable of Pride and Patience would probably end one of two ways:

(1) Pride, when he feels secure in the knowledge that his support system won’t disappear as the result of minor errors, and who is impressed by the carriage of Patience and others like her, may actually change. It does happen – just not very often.

(2) The more likely outcome would be that there is no remedy: Sometimes asshole is forever. Patience would, if she were supported well enough, leave Pride sputtering in her dust.

In short…

(a) The Bible doesn’t teach that all women are to submit to all men.

(b) It’s not always possible, whether the man be a husband or an athletic partner, to affect change no matter how earnest the intent. (This is just as true of women, of course.)

(c ) If a partner is acting in bad faith – and yes, some of them definitely do – then reconciliation is not merely hard but impossible; the incorrigible partner will insist, to his or her dying breath, that he or she did nothing wrong (even if there are dozens of witnesses to testify otherwise). Such a person is, to his or her fellow humans at least, quite unreachable.

(Sorry, Lori - not all situations, even when the woman debases herself to the point of inhumanity, will end up with a fairytale ending. You should know this. You should share this with the unfortunate suckers who come to you for advice. Will it take the death of someone before you realize you're full of shit?)