Shraders in Zambia - Welcome to Poisonwood, Stephen- Part 3

[Palimpsest]

Re. Arcade: Thanks Johanna25. Good research. I'm now betting on the simplest solution to the question. Arcade has never been to Katy but is doing online courses from SHSH in Zambia.

Re. Rick Shrader: " If you follow Teamzambiashraders, then you may know that the enemy of our souls has attacked him on the topic of repentance. Jesus said if you do not repent you would perish and that is externally." What, not internally too? These people speak in code and avoid the facts. Tell the truth already!

I also want to know John's monthly income in Zambia and more about the COL there. What difference will losing $2,000 per month make?

For those wondering why we criticize John Shrader so much?

If you are interested, here are a few Zambian missionary blogs I had bookmarked. I haven't kept up with all of them and this is not a complete list by any means. If you go to one blog you can find links to others so it's a big rabbit hole. The connections themselves are informative because these people form supportive missionary communities and would help each other in emergencies while John seems isolated. Many of them have small children.

Whatever their theological/evangelizing beliefs (and I probably disagree with all of them) it is rewarding to compare and contrast these missionaries' general cultural attitudes, prayer requests, and standard of living, with John's ridiculing of Zambian norms, self-serving prayer requests and financial demands. They also all seem to be doing something concrete to improve conditions in Zambia. Unlike John.

KevinPeske.blogspot.com (also on FB)

Tried to give good advice to John re. cars, planes and import taxes on FB last year. John blew him off. IAM connected.

Visionzambia.com

The Barnhouse Family. Almost lost a child to malaria last year. Farm 80 acres.

Reachingzambiaforchrist.com

The Jabowiec Family. Arrived in Zambia last year with much better preparation than Shrader. Connections with Peske and IAM.

Missionoflovezambia.blogspot.com.

The Joubert Family Converted a derelict motel into an orphanage.

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

Note: Connection with the Sweerin family. I haven't mentioned them before because I will not snark on the Sweerins. She tragically lost a baby in Zambia last year. It could easily have happened to Esther.

ACTION.Zambia Various Missionaries

Seem to be interdenominational Evangelicals not IFB. Dearthtodelight.blogspot.com (AIDS mission) is one example but follow the links for others.

And for an LDS perspective there is always Preparetoserve.com/Zambia

[KittenMitten]

Someone else found the Roderick info but this is John on his first meeting with Arcade in 2011:

There is also the time that John and David told Arcade his dead parents would burn in hell for eternity because they followed "false" Christianity. :angry-banghead:

I think it quite possible that Arcade lost his parents in the Burundian civil war. It was at its height 1993 - 2003 but the final ceasefire was not until 2006. It is not clear how old he is. He looks early 20s to me but John seems to treat him as younger than that.

Thank you all. I think I am going to need some sort of computer program or enormous Venn Diagram to keep all these people straight in my head.

I was wondering about the Doctrinal differences which seems to be splitting hairs, but decided I do not really need to know. Thanks again.

[Wenny]

What about that family that did lose a child? They posted his body :? in a coffin on facebook.

[Palimpsest]

What about that family that did lose a child? They posted his body :? in a coffin on facebook.

A missionary family In Zambia? I really don't remember that one. The Murphy family (mainstream Christian medical missionaries through Africa's Child in Zambia) lost a daughter suddenly last year. Really sad.

Are you perhaps thinking of Sparkling Lauren (the Rainbow Delight) discussed on many threads here? She is not a missionary but posted pictures of her dead (murdered by her husband) son.

It seems to be quite common to post photographs of deceased children on Facebook these days. I suppose some people find it healing.

[JeanieCat]

I remember that boy. I think he was 8 or 9. I saw the FB pictures, very sad. Wish I had kept track of the name. Have been looking but no luck so far!

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

My source:

I think the more people know him the more worrisome they become.

Lordship Salvation is tricky. I think all Christians believe in repentance. John believes you can't just believe in Christ's sacrificial death but that you have to be "ready" to receive Christ by repenting from all your sin. People like me believe this takes away from God's free gift. If it isn't a free gift than it is a work and that is a big deal! Once he got to Zambia and started posting, certain language start to stand out. John says he doesn't believe but his own words betray him. I think a lot of churches are smarter now

I do believe the children are immunized by all they can be. They do have medical insurance.

Lastly, churches didn't seek out John. John sought out churches. He makes an excellent first impression. I know people here are wounded by people and the church but I and those like me truly love the Lord and people. We thought John believed like us and are extremely sad to see things go this direction. I have never heard of some of the behavior described in here and it'd make Me sick if I saw it.

[GeoBQn]

A missionary family In Zambia? I really don't remember that one. The Murphy family (mainstream Christian medical missionaries through Africa's Child in Zambia) lost a daughter suddenly last year. Really sad.

Are you perhaps thinking of Sparkling Lauren (the Rainbow Delight) discussed on many threads here? She is not a missionary but posted pictures of her dead (murdered by her husband) son.

It seems to be quite common to post photographs of deceased children on Facebook these days. I suppose some people find it healing.

There was also David Waller's brother, who died of leukemia while doing a mission in Mongolia.

[formergothardite]

What does she/he mean that he never heard of some of the behavior described here? Things John did that we noticed and churches didn't?

Honestly, it saddens me that it took this nit-picky thing about Lordship salvation to cause people to question John. It wasn't his treatment of his children during deputation, it wasn't his treatment of the people of Zambia and Burundi, it wasn't how questionable his planning was, it was this theological splitting of hairs. I thank the universe that I am no longer a part of that anymore. I wish the people and churches that supported John would learn from him and change how they choose missionaries to support, but I rather doubt they will. The next missionary who rolls up with a grand plan to save souls, they will probably toss money at.

My question for this person is: Did anyone in any of these churches ask or think about if moving to Zambia was in the best interest of the children? Did anyone question John about how he would properly care for and educate his children while on deputation or in Zambia?

[slickcat79]

What does she/he mean that he never heard of some of the behavior described here? Things John did that we noticed and churches didn't?

Honestly, it saddens me that it took this nit-picky thing about Lordship salvation to cause people to question John. It wasn't his treatment of his children during deputation, it wasn't his treatment of the people of Zambia and Burundi, it wasn't how questionable his planning was, it was this theological splitting of hairs. I thank the universe that I am no longer a part of that anymore. I wish the people and churches that supported John would learn from him and change how they choose missionaries to support, but I rather doubt they will. The next missionary who rolls up with a grand plan to save souls, they will probably toss money at.

My question for this person is: Did anyone in any of these churches ask or think about if moving to Zambia was in the best interest of the children? Did anyone question John about how he would properly care for an educate his children while on deputation or in Zambia?

I've been looking for a deeper meaning behind everything that John has said about his split from the sending church and the potential loss of support. I've largely ignored his words about theological differences because I just CANNOT believe that this is the sticking point. That something as infinitesimal as the language that you use to encourage repentance would cause churches to drop him, when they're otherwise happy to enable his status as a parasite on the face of humanity :doh:

[Mitz_]

Arcade posted this yesterday:

Arcade Niyomwungere

Yesterday at 12:24pm ·

Repentance in New Testament means that a person has changed his mind. He no longer thinks about sin, GOD, or himself in the same way he did before. it is more than just being sorry that he has done wrong, although that often comes first. Sometimes a saved person has to repent; always an unsaved person has to repent and turn from sin before he can come to GOD in true believing faith.

Um, in other words you have to do this BEFORE you can be saved? Tsk Tsk Tsk...

John, John, John. You baptize one person in Africa and he does not believe in God's free gift?

[anjulibai]

So does this mean that John thinks that a saved person generally does not sin?

[Palimpsest]

What about that family that did lose a child? They posted his body :? in a coffin on facebook.

Post Author: JeanieCat » Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:46 pm

I remember that boy. I think he was 8 or 9. I saw the FB pictures, very sad. Wish I had kept track of the name. Have been looking but no luck so far!

Scratch my post above because really vague bells are now sort of ringing in my memory. Not the first time I've been wrong and probably not the last.

I think you two are right and I did see those photos, but I truly can't remember the name, location or cause of death. The cause of death might not have been mission related. I can't remember.

I think I wanted to block those pics because photos of dead children hurt my heart. I suppose some people find them healing. I don't, but I'm not going criticize others for their feelings or healing mechanisms, even if they involve pics on Facebook..

[formergothardite]

I remember the little boy who died too, but I can't remember anything about the family or what happened.

[snickerz]

So this all boils down to faith vs. works? Shouldn't churches make sure the missionary they're supporting will be preaching the same things that they believe in before they throw money at him? Or does having a large family of smiling children trump all? Gah!

[Mitz_]

My source:

I think the more people know him the more worrisome they become.

Lordship Salvation is tricky. I think all Christians believe in repentance. John believes you can't just believe in Christ's sacrificial death but that you have to be "ready" to receive Christ by repenting from all your sin. People like me believe this takes away from God's free gift. If it isn't a free gift than it is a work and that is a big deal! Once he got to Zambia and started posting, certain language start to stand out. John says he doesn't believe but his own words betray him. I think a lot of churches are smarter now

I do believe the children are immunized by all they can be. They do have medical insurance.

Lastly, churches didn't seek out John. John sought out churches. He makes an excellent first impression. I know people here are wounded by people and the church but I and those like me truly love the Lord and people. We thought John believed like us and are extremely sad to see things go this direction. I have never heard of some of the behavior described in here and it'd make Me sick if I saw it.

There is vaccinated and then there is fully vaccinated. There are maybe 3 vaccinations that are required to get a visa. Children under a certain age do not require a visa. There are several other vaccinations that are recommended, but not required to get a visa to Zambia.

It is VERY telling that the church that was John's home church at the time God laid it on his heart to go to Africa would not be his sending church. John had to go looking for a sending church and this is something in itself to be frowned upon.

And Dear Source, please explain your last sentence. We do not understand due to lack of clarity but it seems important.

The more you know about him, the more worrisome he becomes. That is John in a nutshell.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks Milly-Molly-Mandy and Source.

More questions for the Source. I am guessing, Source, that you are reading here and hope you understand that we are motivated by concern. I appreciate you talking to us via Milly-Molly-Mandy. That said, I know I am now going to sound harsh, but here goes:

I think the more people know him the more worrisome they become.

Why? Can you be precise about the worry?

Lordship Salvation is tricky. I think all Christians believe in repentance. John believes you can't just believe in Christ's sacrificial death but that you have to be "ready" to receive Christ by repenting from all your sin. People like me believe this takes away from God's free gift. If it isn't a free gift than it is a work and that is a big deal! Once he got to Zambia and started posting, certain language start to stand out. John says he doesn't believe but his own words betray him. I think a lot of churches are smarter now

I'm not that interested in the hairsplitting of doctrine. It does puzzle me that people funded John without sorting out doctrinal differences. John was always a "church planter." Shouldn't that have made people examine his theology more carefully prior to funding him in Zambia?

I do believe the children are immunized by all they can be. They do have medical insurance.

That (immunization and medical insurance) would be the best news I've heard for months, if true. You have no idea how much many of us have worried about those children.

Lastly, churches didn't seek out John. John sought out churches. He makes an excellent first impression.

Yes, we know John sought out churches. It seems to be an IFB tradition. I well believe that he makes a good first impression. He seems to be a good preacher. What distresses me that funding churches do not ask deeper and harder questions prior to funding (enabling) the Johns of this world. I really do want to know why anyone funds an "church planter" with no discernible skills to share with the people of Zambia.

I know people here are wounded by people and the church but I and those like me truly love the Lord and people.

I love people and like to try my best to protect vulnerable people. That includes people, like you, who are conned by false "missionaries" like John. John is a self-server who invoked the "Lord" and "salvation" and "souls for harvest" (perish that concept and shame on those who subscribe to it) for his own benefit.

We thought John believed like us and are extremely sad to see things go this direction. I have never heard of some of the behavior described in here and it'd make Me sick if I saw it.

What makes you sick? What did you overlook and why? Will you be more discerning in the future?

{L_MESSAGE_HIDDEN}:

ETA: Being polite to Source but I rage against enablers of "church planters" who offer no concrete help for developing countries. John was at least honest in his grifting. He had no intention of offering material help to Zambia.

[Johanna25]

Please forgive my Roman Catholic upbringing (I am now decidedly lapsed), but I find the emphasis on "faith alone" and prejudice against "works" to be the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity. Good works are what makes the world a better place for everyone here. If these missionaries weren't so worried about "works," maybe they'd do a little good for the lives of the people they are trying to "save." :angry-banghead: Alright, rant over, carry on. :|

[Gobsmacked]

I'm still a bit lost. So Johns church doesn't believe that missionaries should actually do positive thing such as help to build schools/help provide medical clinics etc?

It's ok to just preach at folk then to baptise them in a safe water source? :?

[Justme]

This whole theology thing makes no sense. Wouldn't the churches questioned him BEFORE the agreed to support him, well before he left the states? I could understand maybe 1 or 2 not being so careful, but so many.....

I can't help thinking John was not truthful. He's the master of SPIN, he may not even realize what is true.

How many churches agreed to fund him? Any ideas?

[Johanna25]

It is not that they are against helping people. It is a theological point about what is necessary for salvation. If I understand it Arcade's talk about repentance was objectionable because you don't need to repent your sins, you only need Jesus. Faith is a gift, you don't earn salvation.

[slickcat79]

I'm still a bit lost. So Johns church doesn't believe that missionaries should actually do positive thing such as help to build schools/help provide medical clinics etc?

It's ok to just preach at folk then to baptise them in a safe water source? :?

Apparently not. This theological debate is a new development, but they always knew he wasn't going there for any practical reasons. In John's world, all those pesky things like education and health care are just worldly concerns, and absolutely trivial compared to the afterlife. So while John might share some of his vast resources with a few people, it will only be those who have agreed to "disciple" with him.

[Palimpsest]

I'm at a loss with the repentance thing. I think even in John's doctrine repentance is necessary. It seems to be a squabble over what constitutes "true" repentance.

I'll give explaining the "Grace" versus "Works" business a shot from a total cynic's POV though. No texts -- just what I remember of the debate and very oversimplified. Corrections are always welcome.

It's also known as the clash of the apostles. What Paul preached in the Letters versus what James said in the Gospel.

Saved by Grace: Paul.

What matters is that you accept Jesus into your heart as your personal savior. By Grace and Blood Jesus saved your soul -- so long as you are best buddies with him. "Works" like good deeds (self-explanatory), rituals (like baptism, going to church, taking communion) and all that fancy good person stuff is irrelevant to your flying up to Heaven if you have accepted Jesus. So "Works" are are a sneaky way of trying to buy yourself into heaven. Thus, you can be a selfish shithead and still get to heaven if you are Saved by Grace.

Saved by (Faith and) Works: James.

Good deeds are very relevant. Faith alone is not automatic ticket to heaven and you need Works too. Yes, Jesus died for our sins to save our souls and all that but we should do our best to be good people on earth too. Also called "earned" salvation by John-types.

Extreme Fundies of the Pauline persuasion think that any Christian (even Protestants) that follow the Jamesian version is not really Christian. Especially Ebil Catholics. Catholics have all those magical rituals like infant baptism and absolution (all the Sacraments really) and rely far too much on "Works" instead of being on best buddy terms with Jesus.

John Shrader is selling Salvation by Grace Alone.

He is also very against helping Africans with material goods (charity). Once they are "Saved" by John in the "right" way they need to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps. Money and goods corrupt the process. Tracts, bibles and prayers are all they need from the leg-humpers. John needs the cash because he/Jesus is harvesting their pagan souls for Salvation.

It's like a perversion of the old "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime" thing. To John, giving an African man his version of Christianity is teaching him to fish. Except Africans are really unreliable and need constant supervision by white men like John to hold onto the only real fish of his version of Christianity.

[formergothardite]

Apparently not. This theological debate is a new development, but they always knew he wasn't going there for any practical reasons. In John's world, all those pesky things like education and health care are just worldly concerns, and absolutely trivial compared to the afterlife. So while John might share some of his vast resources with a few people, it will only be those who have agreed to "disciple" with him.

I don't think John is going to share his resources with anybody. John is a taker, not a giver. And it also appears that while John might expect the people of Zambia with live on Bibles and tracts, he is not living without an ice maker.

[Gobsmacked]

Thank you Palimpsest , that does help.

Also could some one tell me what I need to press to like someone else's posts?

I use an I pad and am still learning! :D

[slickcat79]

I don't think John is going to share his resources with anybody. John is a taker, not a giver. And it also appears that while John might expect the people of Zambia with live on Bibles and tracts, he is not living without an ice maker.

Well, he did give Roderick's family some small amount of food, and he's given his neighbor rides in the troopie when they had heavy things to carry. He's also had Arcade, Roderick, the Phiris and a few others over for meals on occasion. It's just a drop in the bucket compared to what he has handed to him every month.