Ken Alexander reflects on his time at FJ:

[Coconut Flan]

I will never for the life of me understand why Christians hold so tenaciously to the idea that parents must hit their children to get them to behave.

It's just selected ones, really.

[Arete]

Ken and Lori on "biblical" marriage:

Must have husband as headship, must beat the children.

Greek Orthodox Church on regular old marriage, don't use "biblical" as a qualifier:

Must love one another, must be patient with one another.

The GOs aren't exactly known for leading the progressive charge of 21st century Christianity, but even we are too far to the left for Ken and Lori. :roll: :wtf:

[Alye]

I very much agree. I actually consider myself to be a submissive wife. I do that voluntarily by lining myself behind my husband and supporting him. I'm naturally more submissive anyway and he naturally has the more dominant personality. Thing is, he loves me as Christ loves the church so much so that he always puts me first and asks for my input. He rarely makes a decision without discussing it with me first and it's usually one we agree on. For my part, I value his opinion, take his advice and trust his biblical knowledge. We're a real team so to others, we actually look egalitarian yet I believe we complement each other perfectly. I believe that when the husband truly loves the wife as Christ loves the church and the wife truly supports and respects her husband, this does look like mutual submission.

I think the difference in how submission is viewed is due to how the individual interprets it and I believe that those who have the proclivity to abuse are going to abuse submission because they need the control which to me, indicates deep insecurity and/or deep narcissism.

I am not Christian, more agnostic, but I have no problem with women being submissive in a marriage (if that is their choice). I feel that if I were to ever get married I would be because that is just my personality. Despite this I do know how detrimental inequality in a marriage can be because growing up the reverse was true. My mother has a much more dominant personality than Dad. My parents marriage is miserable and only in the last few years has Dad learned to stand up for himself.

This does not mean that I think the opposite should always be the case. It is very much about the individual people within the marriage and what works for their relationship. Some marriages the women may be submissive, some the man and some complementarian as Feministxtian said. And some people should not be married at all (i.e. my parents). I have seen happy marriages of all models.

As for physical punishment when growing up I never received any. My brother did on one occasion but he was a little shit (sorry for the profanity :mrgreen: ) who enjoyed making my sisters and I cry. He went so far once that my mother smacked him on the hand with the wooden spoon she happened to be holding. She was so ashamed of herself that she locked herself outside until my dad came home a few minutes latter. My Dad was livid grabbed my brother and threw him on his bed. My Dad is very even tempered and even now over 20 years later my brother remembers the incident vividly (he was about 5 at the time) and says he knew when he got Dad that angry that he went to far. While my brother wasn't an angel afterwards he certainly knew how far he could go.

As for personally I would like to think I never would raise a hand to my child but I understand that sometimes things happen. This was the case with my sister and her daughter. My niece was three and my sister also had a newborn. My niece escaped and darted towards a very busy road. My sister grabbed my niece and swatted (true swatted and not Ken's version) my niece on the bottom. Sometimes a swat is better if the kid is putting themselves in danger. Even this I know is controversial for some parents.

[Firiel]

I try not to rush to judgement, because I am aware that the real world has so many manifestations, and when we describe something in a way that gives the impression of A, it's also possible that any explanation from B to Z is the reality instead.

And all this even moreso with an issue as contentious as young women's weight.

However, I am finding it very difficult to find an interpretation for this:

Daughter 1:

that doesn't suggest cutting or other self-harm. Which, to me, raises the level of concern by many orders of magnitude over a striving young dancer overly-focused on her slenderness.

Am I missing something? I can't imagine that her weight caused her UNintentional injuries, unless she meant she was so thin she was fainting? But why would someone who is so thin they are fainting, still think they are "not skinny enough" -- that sounds like medical-intervention-level disorder to me. I'm not an expert on eating disorders by any means, but I'm not entirely unfamiliar with them either.

This sounds worse and worse the more I think about it.

The injuries could be unintentional overuse injuries from working out too much and pushing her body too hard. That seems entirely possible to me. I hope that's the case, at least.

[church_of_dog]

The injuries could be unintentional overuse injuries from working out too much and pushing her body too hard. That seems entirely possible to me. I hope that's the case, at least.

That does make sense and I hope you are correct.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Ken and Lori on "biblical" marriage:

Must have husband as headship, must beat the children.

Greek Orthodox Church on regular old marriage, don't use "biblical" as a qualifier:

Must love one another, must be patient with one another.

The GOs aren't exactly known for leading the progressive charge of 21st century Christianity, but even we are too far to the left for Ken and Lori. :roll: :wtf:

Similar experience here.

Ultra-Orthodox Jewish marriage advice: husband and wife represent two halves of a whole, which is in the Divine Image. Therefore, the stuff that drives you crazy the most about your spouse is probably the stuff that is meant to be there to counter-balance you, so the two of you are supposed to figure out how to respect each other and work together.

Lubavitch Hasidic marriage advice: As above, but also include a mystical lesson on how a balance of male and female in a marriage is a reflection on the balance of male and female aspects of the Divine in the cosmos, and how being out of balance is a bad thing. Strengthening of the feminine side is a sign of the approaching Messianic era.

Ultra-Orthodox child rearing advice: Don't spank. Train by example and repetition. Give kids your love, time and attention. Develop a strong bond. Start education early. Make sure that parents and teachers are good role models. Praise kids regularly. Be careful with media, but use it to your advantage through songs, DVDs, etc. to reinforce what you want to teach.

Oh, and food. Use it. A lot. We never got the memo that gluttony is a sin.

So yeah, that's where I got my liberal hippie ideas. I'm not saying that all ultra-Orthodox do things this way, and some of this advice does borrow from modern techniques, but this was the consistent approach I picked up from the lectures, websites, parenting and relationship experts that they recommended, daycares and nursery schools, and a parenting course that I took from a mom of 12.

[slickcat79]

Here is the bit about force feeding:

Lori Alexander:

Lori Alexander:

Ken Alexander:

I always like to compare this against Lori's story of being sick and wanting a potato. She had her daughters and her father falling all over each other to get her what she wanted and make her feel better, but instead of just telling them she wanted a fucking potato she asks for soup. Her dad brings her chicken noodle, and her daughter makes her a homemade soup from scratch...with no potatoes.

Lori's response is to cry and make passive aggressive jabs. She is more than capable of simply expressing what she wants, but she refuses to do it for some unknown reason. Of course it's ok for her to be a picky eater and to throw a fit when she doesn't get what she wants, but not for a pre-verbal infant to do the same thing :cray-cray:

[jerkit]

I always like to compare this against Lori's story of being sick and wanting a potato. She had her daughters and her father falling all over each other to get her what she wanted and make her feel better, but instead of just telling them she wanted a fucking potato she asks for soup. Her dad brings her chicken noodle, and her daughter makes her a homemade soup from scratch...with no potatoes.

Lori's response is to cry and make passive aggressive jabs. She is more than capable of simply expressing what she wants, but she refuses to do it for some unknown reason. Of course it's ok for her to be a picky eater and to throw a fit when she doesn't get what she wants, but not for a pre-verbal infant to do the same thing :cray-cray:

That was one of those "is Lori on drugs?" moments for me. Like, any other reasonable human being would simply say "I would like a potato please." But no, Lori makes her family guess what she wants and then cries when she doesn't get it.

[Sobeknofret]

However, I am finding it very difficult to find an interpretation for this:

Daughter 1:

that doesn't suggest cutting or other self-harm.

For dancers and other athletes, too little muscle mass can cause serious injuries. Dancers are especially prone to this kind of thing; they need a *lot* of muscle to dance en pointe, and starving yourself means that your body is decreasing in muscle mass, leading to injuries.

[Firiel]

I was going to ask for hints on where to find the potato story. Then I searched her blog for potato and found it right away. :) LOL.

Anyway.

From the comments today about being unequally yoked:

Amen! I too am unequally yoked. It is by far much harder than I ever could've imagined. There is no mercy from a man who doesn't know God. It has been a long weary road as the poster said. He says he believes now. But there is little to no fruit. He does go to church with us though. And is actually involved in many of the mens' activities. That all took 10 years. It just takes prayer constantly, and submission. And pleading your case with the Lord while also knowing you deserve everything you get and that God has a way to work out evil for good. All of that is biblically appropriate, and all of it is true. And submitting was the best thing I ever did for our marriage. I am the queen to his king, and get all of the blessings that go with that. Prayers for all unequally yoked marriages.

Erm... her husband is a Christian now, though probably not a True Believer^TM as per Lori and Ken because husband is still an ass. The only True Believer^TM couple allowed to hate each other is Lorken!

So if her husband is a Christian and he still shows no mercy, maybe he's just an asshole, religion aside. I've known plenty of men who "don't know God" but who still manage to be perfectly merciful, good people. Also, if her husband is a Christian, she's not unequally yoked, right?

[church_of_dog]

For dancers and other athletes, too little muscle mass can cause serious injuries. Dancers are especially prone to this kind of thing; they need a *lot* of muscle to dance en pointe, and starving yourself means that your body is decreasing in muscle mass, leading to injuries.

Thank you, this too makes sense. I guess I overreacted just a bit.

[church_of_dog]

I was going to ask for hints on where to find the potato story. Then I searched her blog for potato and found it right away. :) LOL.

Ha ha ha, I just did the same thing! Her blog stats must be interesting, and I bet she comes here (oops, not allowed -- asks Ken to check here) for explanations when odd searches suddenly show up… :lol:

[polecat]

I was going to ask for hints on where to find the potato story. Then I searched her blog for potato and found it right away. :) LOL.

Anyway.

From the comments today about being unequally yoked:

Those two bolded lines in particular made me shudder. This guy doesn't sound like a good guy at all.

[jerkit]

Do we know anything about this Brad guy that's been commenting the past few days?

[polecat]

I always like to compare this against Lori's story of being sick and wanting a potato. She had her daughters and her father falling all over each other to get her what she wanted and make her feel better, but instead of just telling them she wanted a fucking potato she asks for soup. Her dad brings her chicken noodle, and her daughter makes her a homemade soup from scratch...with no potatoes.

Lori's response is to cry and make passive aggressive jabs. She is more than capable of simply expressing what she wants, but she refuses to do it for some unknown reason. Of course it's ok for her to be a picky eater and to throw a fit when she doesn't get what she wants, but not for a pre-verbal infant to do the same thing :cray-cray:

And then she had to restrain herself to keep from calling her daughter and guilting her for not putting potatoes in the soup after the daughter spent time putting a homemade veggie soup together. smh.

[Firiel]

Do we know anything about this Brad guy that's been commenting the past few days?

No, but I was looking for his comments and ran across this one by a Katie on yesterday's post:

Thank you, Lori and Ken, for this post. I am grateful to have the privelage of following this blog! Sometimes it is almost overwhelming at how many things I need to improve on! But it helps knowing these are issues that a lot if people struggle with. I have never posted or been a part of any if the hateful websites, and after reading some if it on child discipline, I was so torn. I felt further than ever from God reading those hateful words. But when I am on your blog, I feel that nudging to improve and take your advice. I still worry I may have caused hurt feelings to Lori by letting that blog confuse me. I really am sorry and I have tears as I write this, because I know it was me that was fearful. It is shaming, but I was emotionally shaken at the time and I also believe I let the evil one get too close. Anyway, I would give anything to have my mother be available as a Titus 2 woman, but I don't. I am listening to the audio series "She Shall Be Called Woman" and reading my Bible and praying daily. In the audio series, someone asked a question about if it is okay to follow Titus 2 women online if you can't in person, and Victorian Botkin responded that it was fine to do so. Please, I hope you believe me when I tell you how much you have helped me already. I am a happier mother and wife, and even my husband and family have noticed a difference. I know my faith is weaker than yours, and to be honest, I am still researching and praying about how to handle discipline with my young daughter. But, Thank you again, and I hope it is okay to continue learning and growing here.

Is this real? It's either the funniest thing ever or the saddest thing ever, depending on if it's legit or a poe.

[jerkit]

No, but I was looking for his comments and ran across this one by a Katie on yesterday's post:

Is this real? It's either the funniest thing ever or the saddest thing ever, depending on if it's legit or a poe.

It is so very over the top. It must be Poe, right?

[Firiel]

Another one from her that sounds less Poe-ish (but still within the range of potential Poe, considering the other one):

Lori,

I just want to say how much I appreciate this blog. With just about every post I've read, I have felt convicted to do better. This post does that too - as a young wife, I regre that I have been feeling rather proud of myself for obeying my husband. Yet there is many times where the smile on my face doesn't match the stubbornness in my heart. You are helping me realize so many things.... I need to have a joyful attitude in my heart or it isn't true obedience. I have always had a strong personality, so marraige has been a time for deep spiritual improvement. I hope this will all get easier as I get older. I struggle with knowing wether or not it is a sin to feel that immediate stubborn will. I know I I don't obey correctly, it is a sin. Sometimes, I just don't know If my actual immediate feelings are sin. I pray so often for guidance. I love my husband so much. He has always been a bit more reserved and very relaxed. I wish he would be a little more assertive with his leadership in our home. I wonder if there is a way to encourage him besides prayer? Sorry to be rambling.... I consider you a role model for the wife I want to be and thank you for all you do!

[docmom]

Wait, where in the bible does it say you deserve everything you get? Because I know a lot of very good, faithful folks who've had absolutely awful things happen to them that they absolutely did not deserve. Talk about a recipe for rampant abuse!

[formergothardite]

I always like to compare this against Lori's story of being sick and wanting a potato. She had her daughters and her father falling all over each other to get her what she wanted and make her feel better, but instead of just telling them she wanted a fucking potato she asks for soup. Her dad brings her chicken noodle, and her daughter makes her a homemade soup from scratch...with no potatoes.

Lori's response is to cry and make passive aggressive jabs. She is more than capable of simply expressing what she wants, but she refuses to do it for some unknown reason. Of course it's ok for her to be a picky eater and to throw a fit when she doesn't get what she wants, but not for a pre-verbal infant to do the same thing :cray-cray:

Wow, I don't really follow her blog except when it is brought up here but this is ridiculous. How does no one in her family keep from telling her off? If you want a potato just tell people and I bet they would fix you a potato. It isn't hard. I think she likes coming up with things to be unhappy about.

[Firiel]

Coincidentally, I just got a big bag of Yukon Gold potatoes from the free counter at work.

Lori will probably be seething with jealousy when she doesn't read this because she's not allowed on the site.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Here is what Ken posted right here on Free Jinger about his views on force feeding young children:

To sit at a table and feed a child who is unwilling to eat is not abusive, or unkind, s long as force is not used. To say, open up, and put a bite in their mouth while they are crying is part of the training and growing up process. For you to have a different opinion is fine, but please state it as your opinion and not as if this is not considered acceptable by most parents to varying degrees. You don't like our family child raising measures and all I can do is point you tow the fabulous loving results. If "the proof was not in the pudding" you might have an argument. Perfect parents we are not, but we are responsible to raise our children as we feel is best for them. We can't experiment what with what worked for you when we clearly know what works for us already. We got only one shot at parenting, and I can only assume your kids turned out better than ours for you to want us to go a different direction.

from here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21209&start=280

[jerkit]

Here is what Ken posted right here on Free Jinger about his views on force feeding young children:

from here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=21209&start=280

But what Ken doesn't address is when Emma was BEGGING FOR FOOD and her dad "didn't like that" so he put her on a blanket and ignored her until he was done eating.

[ILoveJellybeans]

But what Ken doesn't address is when Emma was BEGGING FOR FOOD and her dad "didn't like that" so he put her on a blanket and ignored her until he was done eating.

That is stupid. Also, why are they not feeding Emma at the same time? Just put her in her high chair and give her some! Its better for kids if the whole family eats together anyway.

[polecat]

Coincidentally, I just got a big bag of Yukon Gold potatoes from the free counter at work.

Lori will probably be seething with jealousy when she doesn't read this because she's not allowed on the site.

I love Yukon Gold potatoes. They're just the perfect texture.