Ken Alexander reflects on his time at FJ:

[Koala]

The problem is that Ken is a revisionist historian and usually knows when to start scrubbing the floors (hence having Lori delete certain parts of her blog and add to other parts). Lori on the other hand is so obsessed with spanking that she can't help herself. When you couple that with the fact that she has absolutely no filter, she keeps Ken pretty busy. :lol:

[Firiel]

Let's all pause for a moment to let that sink in: Ken claims to believe that Lori is highly intelligent and articulate. Did they change the definitions of these words, too?

When I saw that, the first thing to pop into my head was "LIBEL!" :lol:

[DGayle]

No. He and CM refer to it as a "certain place" or "that forum" in their comments to each other.

They don't want their sheep to have a chance to come here and see the light. I'm sure Ken and Lori see is as "protecting" people.

[Koala]

Ken Alexander: (from the comments of Lori's blog):

As you probably know, some of the worst anti-spanking detractors are from over the pond, especially Norway area. It is funny how so many are so proud of the fact that one country has finally stopped all spanking of children, and by doing so walked all over the rights of parents to raise their children with appropriate discipline as the choose. If the state is now telling us how to raise our children, what next intrusion into our lives and beliefs.

Here Ken, let me fix this for you and see what you think:

As you probably know, some of the worst anti-spanking detractors are from over the pond, especially Norway area. It is funny how so many are so proud of the fact that one country has finally stopped all spanking of WIVES, and by doing so walked all over the rights of HUSBANDS to GIVE THEIR WIVES appropriate discipline as the choose. If the state is now telling us how to HANDLE OUR WIVES, what next intrusion into our lives and beliefs.

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You who argued for leeway for a husband to use a "physical approach" with his wife?

Ken Alexander:

I believe that many wives and husbands would respond well to a physical approach to dealing with such trying or out of control times. Allowing a husband leeway to decide how to deal with his wife is part of submission and vulnerability.

What if you quietly walked over to your wife who is seemingly out of control and you placed your hands on her arms and pinned her to the wall

So what do you think Ken? Since you argue that the gov. has no right to tell you you can't hit your kids, what about your wife?

[Koala]

Ken Alexander: (from the comments of Lori's blog):

It is sad when we can show the proof of our loving discipline in four fabulously well adjusted young adults that we raised, yet the word spanking is enough to get their blood boiling.

2 of these "fabulously well adjusted young adults" suffered from body image disorders and/or eating disorders. Another finds it appropriate to make his baby sit on a blanket and cry for food while he and his wife eat, and then force feeds her when she's not hungry. Ringing endorsement there Ken.

Furthermore, often times kids "turn out fine" in spite of their parents, not because of them. I am curious as to why you are so anxious to link their success as adults to you and Lori hitting them.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Twisting words while accusing those who quote Lori and him directly is a Kenism.

Exactly. Thus Ken only selects to believe and follow what suits his purposes and ignores or changes the interpretation of the rest giving the lie to his following God's word exactly as printed in the KJV. So his entire argument is invalid since he refuses to follow it himself.

Logic is not your friend, Ken. You can't pick and choose and then say the KJV is to be believed and followed exactly word for word.

This, eleventy.

I know Ken thinks I'm a new-Age liberal in one post, and then gets horrified in another when I point out that it's quite common in my community for people not to touch before marriage and to keep elbows and knees covered. [FTR, I have been perfectly consistent and have never "trolled" their site. I use my name, and I post my honest views. The only thing that I really change is my tone and posting style - they ask for a respectful tone and for references to scripture where appropriate, and I oblige. I do not attack their basic religion, just the specific way that they interpret and apply the parts about corporal punishment and wife submission.]

What I've learned is this:

Anything that someone else does that they don't do = "legalistic"

Anything you don't do that they do = rebellion against God

Lori also doesn't believe that we are under ANY law - except, I guess, for her constant insistence that parents use the rod on children and that wives always do exactly what their husbands tell them to do.

As for the other contradictions, I think the cause is pretty clear. Lori was home (even if she was sick and the nanny helped) when the kids were young. Ken spent half the year traveling, and had his sacred 3x/week basketball when he was in town. He also hated Lori "nagging" him to help and didn't really see the point of spending time with little babies. In other words - Lori was getting angry and "applying the rod" more often than Ken, since she wasn't well and was exhausted by caring for 4 young children with no help from Ken.

Lori is blunt and to the point. Not the sharpest, but she tends to blurt out her views without over-analyzing and thinking about how it comes across. Ken is the opposite. He has some extreme views, but only shows them on occasion. He thinks of himself as a polished professional and an educated man. He loves to feel that he's teaching all these women, but then he gets frustrated and angry when they aren't dazzled by his brilliance and remain unconvinced, or ask questions that he's not equipped to handle. He also loves to use this technique where he says "we basically agree" when he and the other person clearly don't agree. So, he'll insist that the husband must be in charge and always obeyed in one breath, and then try to say that his marriage is basically egalitarian elsewhere. He'll paint himself as a sacrificial leader just like Jesus in one place, but then admits that he traveled half the year and considered regular basketball and sex to be "sacred" when he was home. So....the amateur psychologist in me says that Lori (diaphragm story notwithstanding) is actually the more honest of the two.

[Tiger Lily]

Ken Alexander: (from the comments of Lori's blog):

2 of these "fabulously well adjusted young adults" suffered from body image disorders and/or eating disorders. Another finds it appropriate to make his baby sit on a blanket and cry for food while he and his wife eat, and then force feeds her when she's not hungry. Ringing endorsement there Ken.

Furthermore, often times kids "turn out fine" in spite of their parents, not because of them. I am curious as to why you are so anxious to link their success as adults to you and Lori hitting them.

Ugh! Does Lori mention this on her blog or do the daughters blog about it? And seriously, force feeding a baby? Simply awful ...

[Koala]

Ugh! Does Lori mention this on her blog or do the daughters blog about it? And seriously, force feeding a baby? Simply awful ...

Yes. It came to my attention because Lori seemed fairly weight obsessed. Here is one of her posts on the subject:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/06/dealing-with-daughters-weight.html

What she neglects to mention is that meanwhile on the interwebs, her daughters both had blogs referring to the body image issues they had as teens.

Lori Alexander:

As our daughters got older, if we thought they were gaining weight, we would talk to them about it. I know this is supposedly a "taboo" subject but we felt no subject was "taboo" with our children. If we saw any sin in their lives, we would talk to them about it.

When you see your children overeating or gaining weight, are you allowed to talk to them about it? I would venture to say that most parents think it is wrong to say anthing to them. They can confront their children if they are lying, stealing, cheating, etc. but if they eat too much, they aren't allowed to confront them with this issue.

Ken and I disagreed with this philosophy. If we saw our children doing anything that we thought was harmful or against Scripture, we talked to them about it.

Many will say that this will lead to eating disorders in women. How many women do you know that haven't struggled in the area of weight and eating? I think it is just something most women will struggle with. Most people struggle with overeating, because food is so abundant and delicious in America.

I know it was hard for our girls if we ever brought it up to them but isn't it hard when anyone brings up any issue in your life that may be a bad habit or sin?

Quote on Lori's blog:

Christian women need to be told the truth about men ~

Men are attracted to youth and looks. This is normal. Men are not evil, base or perverted for being attracted to youth and beauty. Young Christian girl, if you are not getting approached or asked out, it’s probably because you’re not attractive enough, you’re not nice enough or you’re not available enough. You need to work on this. You need to lose weight, grow your hair out, wear nice clothes and some decent makeup. You might be a b****, and if you are, you need to be nicer. If you really want to find a man and marry, then you need to get serious about it while you’re young.

Daughter 1:

My biggest struggle as a dancer was my body image. I never was happy with what I saw in the mirror. Unlike artists who paint a portrait and marvel how their different paints created a beautiful painting; we are the paint. We use our bodies to create the art. Not only do we have to look at them (in class & rehearsals) but so does the audience (in performance).

In my early years of dance, my body became my obsession. I had not even hit puberty and I was worried that I was too curvy or not skinny enough. Not only did my image disorder cause insecurity, but it gave rise to a host of other issues: bad eating habits, depression, injuries, foggy thinking, sleepless nights, and more. Idolizing the way I looked never helped me. It did not improve my appearance or my performance.

Daughter 2:

I have also struggled with unhealthy relationships with food from overeating and gaining weight to under-eating and losing the weight. It never got too extreme, but I can honestly admit that at one point I was on the verge of anorexia

Between the milk allergy, stomach problems, low energy, prone to fainting/face-planting, anemia, and my mom forcing me to eat my salad when I was young {stubbornly, I would sit at the the table for over two hours a night refusing to eat my salad}, I am where I am at today

Ken commented on this during his time here, and managed to contradict himself a couple of times:

Ken Alexander:

We knew she was snacking and loved chips. She did not like to eat meals, just snack. So we talked to her about her snacking issues. You are the ideal parent. What would you have done? The fact that she turned out just fine means nothing to you. Mischaracterization. You do not know the facts.

She was never anorexic like others in her group, and always ate well

Here is the bit about force feeding:

Lori Alexander:

Emma would love to be the boss. Most children would love to be the boss if they could. Ryan made Emma's breakfast this morning. He started feeding it to her. After one bite she said, "No!" Ryan made her eat at least 20 bites between her crying. He doesn't want her to get her way and become a picky eater. He is a very smart daddy.

Erin told me that when they eat dinner, Emma begs for their food. Ryan didn't like that so he set a blanket down and made Emma sit on it with her toys and books while they ate. For a week, she would just sit there and scream. Then she would just cry. Now when he lays the blanket down, she crawls over to it and plays happily while they eat. She knows her daddy is boss and means what he says.

Lori Alexander:

Some of you may think that force feeding is just terrible. I disagree

Ken Alexander:

We do not believe in force feeding, but do believe patiently waiting for a child to open up and eat.

[Firiel]

Wow.

Are Lori's daughters still blogging?

[jerkit]

I cried the first time I read about Emma begging for food and being ignored.

[nomoxian]

"Of course she only acted this way at home at other peoples houses she was an angel I always had and still do get people saying how well behaved and good mannered she is."

As soon as I read that my first thought was the child might have an Attachment "Disorder" - and I put that in quotations because to me it's not anything wrong, but a very valid response to facing abuse!

If that readers so-called parenting skills are anything like the Alexanders, I'd be more surprised if the child was truly attached to their mother.

[Curious]

So....the amateur psychologist in me says that Lori (diaphragm story notwithstanding) is actually the more honest of the two.

Totally agree with this. This, IMO, is because much like the honey badger, Lori does not GAF! She is right..full stop. She did everything right, so why sugar coat anything. She doesn't stop to consider how normal/sane people might take what she is saying because why would anyone question someone that did everything right? That's crazy. Her kids lived and are (outwardly) functioning adults, so what's the big deal about hitting them with implements when they were toddlers.

Ken, on the other hand, has been in the professional world and realizes that you can't go up to someone and say "you suck. You are doing everything WRONG!" That does not get you clients. You have to schmooze people and tell them what they want to hear and then you tell them they are wrong, but in nicer words. You have to soft pedal it and maybe fib a little to get people to buy what you are selling.

Which works great in the business world because he doesn't have Lori following along behind him (or going before him) contradicting him at every turn with a harsher version (ie: reality).

[polecat]

"Of course she only acted this way at home at other peoples houses she was an angel I always had and still do get people saying how well behaved and good mannered she is."

As soon as I read that my first thought was the child might have an Attachment "Disorder" - and I put that in quotations because to me it's not anything wrong, but a very valid response to facing abuse!

If that readers so-called parenting skills are anything like the Alexanders, I'd be more surprised if the child was truly attached to their mother.

Oh, my kids are charming, well-mannered, respectful, considerate, kind and thoughtful when we're out and about or they're at other people's houses. At home, though, it ranges from lovely and well-behaved (and omg, my kids are so sweet!) to Lord of the Flies where they're each trying to outdo the other (omg, what have I done?!). That quote without context would make me think not "attachment disorder" but "typical kid," lol.

[Tiger Lily]

Yes. It came to my attention because Lori seemed fairly weight obsessed. Here is one of her posts on the subject:

lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/06/dealing-with-daughters-weight.html

What she neglects to mention is that meanwhile on the interwebs, her daughters both had blogs referring to the body image issues they had as teens.

Lori Alexander:

Quote on Lori's blog:

Daughter 1:

Daughter 2:

Ken commented on this during his time here, and managed to contradict himself a couple of times:

Ken Alexander:

Here is the bit about force feeding:

Lori Alexander:

Lori Alexander:

Ken Alexander:

Thank you for going to all the trouble to type this. I'm absolutely sickened. I'm genuinely curious how the Alexander children feel about their childhood. And the baby training ... no words for that.

When our youngest was still a baby, my husband and I went to a Christian convention and met several families. Several weeks after returning home, an anonymous box appeared on our doorstep full of fundie child-rearing advice. First of all, it was insulting because its arrival implied that our children were monsters which wasn't the case at all. Secondly, these people were so cowardly they couldn't even put their name on the box! (We all registered at the convention so I have no idea who sent them.) Finally, the books were outrageous and I realize now dangerous they were -- teachings such as a pregnant wife should go to a female OB or midwife because she shouldn't give another man her husband's power. Seriously! Another tidbit was not to ever let your child show defiance no matter how young (for instance, if an 11-month-old baby pushed the spoon back when he was full). Instead, the PARENT should determine when the child was done eating and he should be disciplined until he learned that. It was ridiculous and we promptly threw the books away. I don't even recall who wrote them, but it sickens me that people are buying into this crap. Hey, perhaps Ken and Lori wrote them! :lol:

[Curious]

This group you speak of has stepped over the line and are liable for at a minimum gross and continual mischaracterizations, along with defamation of character.

Ken, Ken, Ken. We have talked about this. Point out where this is ACTUALLY happening so it can be taken care of or stop making false claims about my business. How would you feel if someone was making false claims about YOUR business, Ken?

BTW, you always try to gloss over this fact but YOU are a member of "this group." A member with a pretty healthy post count, in fact :)

I'm going to change up the quote below a little bit to show you what free speech is all about.

All because we disagree with what Free Jinger discusses about people who willingly post information publicly on the internet . Is Free Jinger not entitled to an opinion or a means of expressing itself in warning the younger women they are equals to their husbands and be great mothers? That would be a shame if Lori could shut them out with her screaming, as the information they provide is so powerful and abundant. But that is what Lori fears; another generation of people carrying on the message that all people are equal.

Now that sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Is Lori screaming at us? No, she is not. Is she stopping us from giving our opinions or expressing ourselves? Nope, she's not doing that either. I do imagine the last sentence is probably correct, but that is just a fluke. The point is, we can no more silence Lori than she can silence us. Both of us have the right to exist on the internet and amazingly we both do...it's like magic!

No one here is stopping Lori from blogging or saying what she wants to say (obviously or she would have shut down her blog a long time ago). People disagreeing with her is NOT persecution. Does Lori really go through her whole life with NO ONE ever disagreeing with her before she encountered FJ? Somehow, I find that impossible to believe.

If we bother Lori so much and she is not allowed to read here, I suggest YOU stop telling her what we are saying. Problem solved.

[Koala]

Ken, Ken, Ken. We have talked about this. Point out where this is ACTUALLY happening so it can be taken care of or stop making false claims about my business. How would you feel if someone was making false claims about YOUR business, Ken?

BTW, you always try to gloss over this fact but YOU are a member of "this group." A member with a pretty healthy post count, in fact :)

I'm going to change up the quote below a little bit to show you what free speech is all about.

Now that sounds pretty silly doesn't it? Is Lori screaming at us? No, she is not. Is she stopping us from giving our opinions or expressing ourselves? Nope, she's not doing that either. I do imagine the last sentence is probably correct, but that is just a fluke. The point is, we can no more silence Lori than she can silence us. Both of us have the right to exist on the internet and amazingly we both do...it's like magic!

No one here is stopping Lori from blogging or saying what she wants to say (obviously or she would have shut down her blog a long time ago). People disagreeing with her is NOT persecution. Does Lori really go through her whole life with NO ONE ever disagreeing with her before she encountered FJ? Somehow, I find that impossible to believe.

If we bother Lori so much and she is not allowed to read here, I suggest YOU stop telling her what we are saying. Problem solved.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

[2xx1xy1JD]

Oh, my kids are charming, well-mannered, respectful, considerate, kind and thoughtful when we're out and about or they're at other people's houses. At home, though, it ranges from lovely and well-behaved (and omg, my kids are so sweet!) to Lord of the Flies where they're each trying to outdo the other (omg, what have I done?!). That quote without context would make me think not "attachment disorder" but "typical kid," lol.

Agreed. The rest of the quote is scary, but just that excerpt is perfectly normal. To a certain extent, it's even a sign of good attachment, because kids will often behave well around other adults, but feel secure enough to let go around their parents.

My kids did this, and I remember a dramatic example with Girl 2. She went to a home daycare with our backyard neighbor. Since it was a new area, there were no fences yet and the neighbors place was maybe 15 ft from ours. My neighbor always thought that Girl 2 was a total angel while her own daughter could act up....until they came over for dinner one night. Once Girl 2 was on home turf - even a few feet away across an unfenced yard - she let go. My neighbor was in shock.

[feministxtian]

Could Ken explain to me how discussing direct quotes from his crazy-ass wife's blog constitute "defamation of character"? I thought you had to make up some crazy bullshit and get people to believe it for that.

[Coconut Flan]

The point is, we can no more silence Lori than she can silence us. Both of us have the right to exist on the internet and amazingly we both do...it's like magic!

Curious, I think the bunny has it. Lori and Ken can't silence us and it drives them bananas. They don't have a delete key over here.

[formergothardite]

Yes, I did. Her comment was not about the Pearls, but about the Duggars. HappyWife pointed out that they were part of a religious cult, and nothing more than that. Nothing about kids raising siblings, girls without futures, none of that. Just that they were part of a cult where the leader was being investigated for sexual abuse and harassment. Of course, Lori can't stand dissension in the ranks of any kind.

Interestingly, her pro-spanking comments on Storage Sociopath's blog were deleted, because apparently she was being questioned over there, and instead Ken wrote another wall of text about them not condoning spanking, as long as parents do their Biblical duty and raise up Godly children.

The entertainment value of this: priceless. Again I have to ask: when do these men work? When does Lori have time to prepare all her healthy meals, read the Bible and clean house? It ain't happening, folks. I have to limit myself to 30 minutes a day of them all combined, or things slip here.

I guess Lori needs to add "Do not discuss facts about the Duggars if it might make them look bad" to her comment policy. I can't tell if she really adores them or if she just tries to use their name a lot to bring more traffic to her blog. Ken, Ken, Ken, you really can't do anything with your wife, can you? She makes you look like a fool over and over again. You say healthy discussion is allowed as long as it isn't anti-spanking and anti-wifely submission and Lori immediately proves that you are wrong.

IMO the reason Ken won't use FJ's name is because he doesn't want people coming here and reading Koala's posts that include direct quotes.

[church_of_dog]

I try not to rush to judgement, because I am aware that the real world has so many manifestations, and when we describe something in a way that gives the impression of A, it's also possible that any explanation from B to Z is the reality instead.

And all this even moreso with an issue as contentious as young women's weight.

However, I am finding it very difficult to find an interpretation for this:

Daughter 1:

In my early years of dance, my body became my obsession. I had not even hit puberty and I was worried that I was too curvy or not skinny enough. Not only did my image disorder cause insecurity, but it gave rise to a host of other issues: bad eating habits, depression, injuries, foggy thinking, sleepless nights, and more. Idolizing the way I looked never helped me. It did not improve my appearance or my performance.

that doesn't suggest cutting or other self-harm. Which, to me, raises the level of concern by many orders of magnitude over a striving young dancer overly-focused on her slenderness.

Am I missing something? I can't imagine that her weight caused her UNintentional injuries, unless she meant she was so thin she was fainting? But why would someone who is so thin they are fainting, still think they are "not skinny enough" -- that sounds like medical-intervention-level disorder to me. I'm not an expert on eating disorders by any means, but I'm not entirely unfamiliar with them either.

This sounds worse and worse the more I think about it.

[FloraKitty35]

Every time I think that Ken and Lori have hit the heights of assholism, they pull out some more gems.

[neuroticcat]

That long list of direct quotes is absolutely nauseating. The callousness with which they speak about physically abusing their children!

I have never spanked my kids - and I feel lucky that first-time-mom me somehow ignored all the Christian parenting-book advice to spank. I will never for the life of me understand why Christians hold so tenaciously to the idea that parents must hit their children to get them to behave.

[salex]

Ken Alexander: (from the comments of Lori's blog):

Here Ken, let me fix this for you and see what you think:

Do you realize how stupid that sounds? You who argued for leeway for a husband to use a "physical approach" with his wife?

Ken Alexander:

So what do you think Ken? Since you argue that the gov. has no right to tell you you can't hit your kids, what about your wife?[/quote]

Remember both Ken and CM complain that the government calls things abuse that are just husbandly duties.

[HoneyBunny]

I still see them... are you talking about her "let the principal hit kids" remarks?

Yes, you're right. I honestly can't keep all the drivel straight, between her blog and his blog and her replying on his blog and Ken replying on both of them and not a single remark that doesn't contradict a former remark (and thanks to Koala for taking one for the team and documenting it all).

Such a sad and sorry group of adults they are.

FWIW, it was the force feeding Emma remark that first introduced me to Always Learning. It sickened me. Even parents I know (mine among them) who spanked with abandon when their kids were growing up could not stand to see their grandchildren disciplined. Not that they denied it was ever necessary...they just never wanted to see it done or know that it was done. And I'm talking time outs in terms of the next generation, certainly not force feeding or blanket training. The thought of grandma Lori looking on with pride and bragging on her blog that Emma was treated so harshly is the most distasteful thing (out of bushels of distasteful things) to from Lori Anderson and proves she is a monster.