So what was up with Jana??

[realist51]

Wasn't there a suggestion that he was quite a bit older than Jana?

Obviously, the girls are better off with immature teenage boys, even younger than they are, who have no life experience and think they know everything :angry-banghead:

Is there some expectation that any male who wants to court a Duggar girl, also has to be innocent and sheltered? Is this a fundie thing?

There was an episode a few years back where Jana was doing a talking head. I can't remember the exact details--I think it was when Jill was deciding to study midwifery--but Jana was asked something about what she planned to do with her future. Her answer was along the lines of, "They (the parents) know my heart." When she said it, though, she looked SO sad, and she sounded SO depressed that I got a connotation from it that her parents knew what she wanted, and they weren't going to let her have it. I have wondered since that time whether she was interested in a guy who did not pass muster with the Duggar parents or whether she wanted to pursue some interest that they did not approve of.

[Mama Mia]

There was an episode a few years back where Jana was doing a talking head. I can't remember the exact details--I think it was when Jill was deciding to study midwifery--but Jana was asked something about what she planned to do with her future. Her answer was along the lines of, "They (the parents) know my heart." When she said it, though, she looked SO sad, and she sounded SO depressed that I got a connotation from it that her parents knew what she wanted, and they weren't going to let her have it. I have wondered since that time whether she was interested in a guy who did not pass muster with the Duggar parents or whether she wanted to pursue some interest that they did not approve of.

What seems to make it extra hard for the Duggar girls is that their celebrity probably does attract a fair number of really creepy guys. On the one hand the having to pass the Duggar parents screening is ridiculous for grown women in their twenties -- but on the other hand they are so sheltered that I could see one of them easily falling for some con man who just wants the fame, or abuser who wants to throw them in a dungeon.

[Toothfairy]

What seems to make it extra hard for the Duggar girls is that their celebrity probably does attract a fair number of really creepy guys. On the one hand the having to pass the Duggar parents screening is ridiculous for grown women in their twenties -- but on the other hand they are so sheltered that I could see one of them easily falling for some con man who just wants the fame, or abuser who wants to throw them in a dungeon.

How will they tell the difference?

[Toothfairy]

What seems to make it extra hard for the Duggar girls is that their celebrity probably does attract a fair number of really creepy guys. On the one hand the having to pass the Duggar parents screening is ridiculous for grown women in their twenties -- but on the other hand they are so sheltered that I could see one of them easily falling for some con man who just wants the fame, or abuser who wants to throw them in a dungeon.

How would they tell the difference?

[mebeforee]

HA, well, fair enough... but I think if any of the girls got a creepy vibe from a potential suitor, they'd act on it. You don't need to be extremely worldly to get that vibe, either. Some people just give off a creepy feeling ;)

[Coco]

I realise Derick is neither teenage, nor raised in a very strict fundie environment. So I do completely take your point.

What I really meant though was, are the men expected to be virgins? This will clearly be much easier to achieve if they are very young and have been brought up on a compound or in a very strict fundie family.

I've wondered if part of JB and Derick's creepy prayer-meeting stuff, was JB checking out if Derick, despite uni and his missionary work, was still suitably unsullied for Jill. It wouldn't at all surprise me if Boob asked Derick directly if he'd had sex, and it wouldn't surprise me either if the answer was no.

I get the feeling Derick was probably both very shy around girls at uni, and also extremely busy with his studies (which i think he took very seriously), his Pistol Pete gig, and church stuff. I think Derick is a romantic, and may well have saved himself until the right girl came along.

Perhaps Jana's suitor was not like this. Maybe he was in his late twenties and had already had a couple of relationships. Perhaps he was fundie-light and had strayed from teh path of righteousness at some point. And maybe JB and Michelle thought this made him ineligible - though in reality it probably would have meant he was ideally suited to Jana as he would have been going into a courtship with her, with his eyes open. All speculation of course.

re: bolded. So what do JB and Michelle have to stand on judging guys who stumbled but repented? Were JB and J'chelle virgins? :naughty:

[Coco]

I would think postponing marriage until at least late 20s would be the ideal way for these young women to limit their family size while still staying true to their beliefs. She could easily end up with " only" 5-7 children even if she is very fertile, if she doesn't have the first until 30 ish and breastfeeding is fairly successful at spacing them out to a birth every 2 years or so. Even with the hyper fertile families the frequency of births drops way down after 40 .

I could also see it being very, very difficult for a girl who is shy, which Jana appears to be, to enter a courtship. If Ben sees Jessa at church and makes flirty eyes at her - and she responds with a flirty look back -- it's far easier for him to ask Jim Bob if he can text her. If Jim Bob suggests to Jill that there is a guy he has been talking to that she might be interested in , and she responds with an enthusiastic " heck ya, fire up the skype!" Something is likely to happen. But I can see a shyer girl averting her eyes when the cute guy at church looks her way, or saying, " oh, no, I wouldn't know what to say" when the interesting stranger is suggested.

In thinking about it, it seems like it would be very difficult for a girl with the qualities they state are desirable in women -- modesty, sweetness, homebody, deferential--- to get to the courtship stage with a guy. Where the more outgoing, assertive, confident girls will have a big edge.

so so true! a lot of the kind girls get dumped into eternal service roles in the community since there is always too much work for one homemaker in a family with a bazillion small kids. Some sew, for families in the frumper churches.... many become teachers in church schools and fill their desire to be motherly by pouring their hearts into the school kids. Single women serve a real purpose in fundieland but are never really validated. No one really honors the single woman, though they are sometimes given retreats to try to encourage them. When a woman's whole social structure revolves around snagging a hubby and popping out kids, being single feels like a prison sentence, or like something is flawed or like God hates them. It becomes a caged bird singing kind of thing.

And also, about the edge assertive girls have: some fundie boys get a thrill from taming a wild one. :roll: :angry-banghead:

[freejoyannatoo]

re: bolded. So what do JB and Michelle have to stand on judging guys who stumbled but repented? Were JB and J'chelle virgins? :naughty:

Oh it's ultra hypocritical of them, of course. But isn't that their whole rationale? Saving their dear ickle innocent children from the sins that they themselves committed. Bleugh.

[Coconut Flan]

Were JB and J'chelle virgins?

They say that they were, but that they went farther than they should have. Of course, if you think kissing has to wait for marriage, then they only had to have kissed to have gone farther than they now think they should have.

[uber frau]

HA, well, fair enough... but I think if any of the girls got a creepy vibe from a potential suitor, they'd act on it. You don't need to be extremely worldly to get that vibe, either. Some people just give off a creepy feeling ;)

Some ppl are very good at creep detection, some ppl are less so. When you combine not being particularly intuitive in that way with an upbringing that makes you shove your own emotions out of the way and to behave sweetly even when you don't want to, it's very easy to find yourself loosing the skill entirely.

It's taken me nearly 10 years to even begin to be able to creep spot. I've pretty much had to consciously learn to switch it back on and teach myself what are red flags. And learn to trust any instinct I might have.

[Toothfairy]

HA, well, fair enough... but I think if any of the girls got a creepy vibe from a potential suitor, they'd act on it. You don't need to be extremely worldly to get that vibe, either. Some people just give off a creepy feeling ;)

That creepy feeling could be God telling them that he's the one. :shock: these kids are so brainwash it would be difficult for them to tell the difference unless daddy notices something.

[hollyj]

I had the impression that there might be a failed courtship for Jana. I just feel awful for her.

JB & Michelle are so concerned with training up their children for adulthood yet they don't allow them to be adults. Why not allow your children to put your parenting to the test?

[HarryPotterFan]

Some ppl are very good at creep detection, some ppl are less so. When you combine not being particularly intuitive in that way with an upbringing that makes you shove your own emotions out of the way and to behave sweetly even when you don't want to, it's very easy to find yourself loosing the skill entirely.

It's taken me nearly 10 years to even begin to be able to creep spot. I've pretty much had to consciously learn to switch it back on and teach myself what are red flags. And learn to trust any instinct I might have.

I think I have a hyper aware creeper detector because I had to put up with so many in high school and college.

[Trynn]

how would she even know since they are not allowed to even have sexual thoughts.

I didn't grow up fundy, but I still grew up with that way of thinking.

See, you're not supposed to HAVE sexual thoughts, but it's supposed to be a huge struggle. You're not supposed to think about sex, but it's supposed to be really difficult and if not, people can get worried about you.

Jana might not have access to information about asexuality, bu she could probably figure of the concept.

[Trynn]

how would she even know since they are not allowed to even have sexual thoughts.

I didn't grow up fundy, but I still grew up with that way of thinking.

See, you're not supposed to HAVE sexual thoughts, but it's supposed to be a huge struggle. You're not supposed to think about sex, but it's supposed to be really difficult and if not, people can get worried about you.

Jana might not have access to information about asexuality, bu she could probably figure of the concept.

[pineapple450]

How will they tell the difference?

Why they'll pray about it of course! Because God just guides them through everything because they're so special and have so many blessings! :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

[Feberin]

I think Jana might have been beaten into submission as a young child. Michelle always describes Jana as a young girl as like Hannie but by the time the special started she appeared to be a quiet and extremely obedient girl. My guess is that Michelle was overwhelmed by all the little ones and really needed Jana to grow up quickly so she made sure that happened. By fourteen Jana was cooking dinner for a family of seventeen every night. While caring for a four-year-old Jason and a baby Jackson.

My guess is that Jana's personality now is a reaction to her upbringing not her actual personality. I think she's quiet because she's afraid to speak out against any of their beliefs. And I think she's extremely obedient and their "workhorse" in the family especially now that Jill is gone. And while Jimbob might be all right marrying off Jana I don't think Michelle could handle loosing her two oldest girls. Michelle might actually have to cook or clean. Jinger can't run everything by herself and Joy and Hannie aren't nearly as well trained as the older girls were at their ages.

[Coco]

I think Jana might have been beaten into submission as a young child. Michelle always describes Jana as a young girl as like Hannie but by the time the special started she appeared to be a quiet and extremely obedient girl. My guess is that Michelle was overwhelmed by all the little ones and really needed Jana to grow up quickly so she made sure that happened. By fourteen Jana was cooking dinner for a family of seventeen every night. While caring for a four-year-old Jason and a baby Jackson.

My guess is that Jana's personality now is a reaction to her upbringing not her actual personality. I think she's quiet because she's afraid to speak out against any of their beliefs. And I think she's extremely obedient and their "workhorse" in the family especially now that Jill is gone. And while Jimbob might be all right marrying off Jana I don't think Michelle could handle loosing her two oldest girls. Michelle might actually have to cook or clean. Jinger can't run everything by herself and Joy and Hannie aren't nearly as well trained as the older girls were at their ages.

i totally agree. People have said in person she's much more spontaneous and fun loving than she seems from the show.

[It'sFunToRun]

I think Jana might have been beaten into submission as a young child. Michelle always describes Jana as a young girl as like Hannie but by the time the special started she appeared to be a quiet and extremely obedient girl. My guess is that Michelle was overwhelmed by all the little ones and really needed Jana to grow up quickly so she made sure that happened. By fourteen Jana was cooking dinner for a family of seventeen every night. While caring for a four-year-old Jason and a baby Jackson.

My guess is that Jana's personality now is a reaction to her upbringing not her actual personality. I think she's quiet because she's afraid to speak out against any of their beliefs. And I think she's extremely obedient and their "workhorse" in the family especially now that Jill is gone. And while Jimbob might be all right marrying off Jana I don't think Michelle could handle loosing her two oldest girls. Michelle might actually have to cook or clean. Jinger can't run everything by herself and Joy and Hannie aren't nearly as well trained as the older girls were at their ages.

A lot of people on FJ have the idea that if you beat someone enough, it will make them become what you want. I think beating someone is just as likely to make them rebel, become passive aggressive, or get the hell outta there as soon as they turn 18.

I don't doubt for one minute that Jana had corporal punishment, but I think her staying is a combination of her truly believing in the lifestyle, loving her family, and being scared of the outside world. Oh, and TLC editing.

[Toothfairy]

Our current home is about 2400 square feet. It has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 washers & 3 dryers. Every morning there is a long line outside each bathroom. Our new home will have 7000 square feet with a big dorm room for the boys and another for the girls. It will have a 2000 square foot living room (which will be great for our home church meetings), a commercial kitchen similar to that of a restaurant with a dining hall, a big pantry, a play room, a master bedroom, a guest bedroom, a sewing room, an office, a laundry mat with 4 washers, 8 dryers and 10 bathrooms, all of which sits on 20 acres. To God be the Glory!

What happened to buying used???

[Rescinded and Mended]

I think I have a hyper aware creeper detector because I had to put up with so many in high school and college.

Me too - my creep factor tends to go into overdrive on many occasions because I've known so many of them over the years. It's difficult for me sometimes, because I often find myself in the position of watching my friends walk into really bad relationships, and if I say something, they don't want to hear it. Then when it ends horribly, that's when they wanna discuss it. It can be harder to help them pick up the pieces at the end than it would have been to head off the bad relationship to begin with.

[Coco]

Our current home is about 2400 square feet. It has 3 bedrooms, 2 baths, 2 washers & 3 dryers. Every morning there is a long line outside each bathroom. Our new home will have 7000 square feet with a big dorm room for the boys and another for the girls. It will have a 2000 square foot living room (which will be great for our home church meetings), a commercial kitchen similar to that of a restaurant with a dining hall, a big pantry, a play room, a master bedroom, a guest bedroom, a sewing room, an office, a laundry mat with 4 washers, 8 dryers and 10 bathrooms, all of which sits on 20 acres. To God be the Glory!

What happened to buying used???

at first i thought that was you, Toothfairy, giving a personal example. I missed that it was a quote from the Duggars. A wth moment - oh my gosh they live a super sized life. :lol: (sorry for misunderstanding, i need coffee) Just goes to show how fans get used to the Duggars and forget how radical their way of life is actually, compared to most people's lives. And how unrealistically easy the show makes having a huge family seem.

[anjulibai]

A lot of people on FJ have the idea that if you beat someone enough, it will make them become what you want. I think beating someone is just as likely to make them rebel, become passive aggressive, or get the hell outta there as soon as they turn 18.

I don't doubt for one minute that Jana had corporal punishment, but I think her staying is a combination of her truly believing in the lifestyle, loving her family, and being scared of the outside world. Oh, and TLC editing.

I'm pretty sure Feberin meant figuratively beaten into submission.