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  1. Since this crosses Quivers I figured I put it here. So we know that the older Bateseses girls went to JTTH and that the oldest Duggar girls did as well. Also Pris went and I think Suze Waller. Did Anna go? I think I saw mentioned that Ashley Sayler went. And I think we've seen pictures of at least one Paine girl there. I'm wondering about the next group of kids. Has Joy Anna gone? Will the young girls go? In 10 years will there be a pick of the lost girls with Callie and Addallee at JTTH? On a related note, we've seen one Duggar boy after another go off to Alert. Have any of the Bateseses boys gone? What about TFDW? Or Brandon Keilen?
  2. So, I was looking through old group shots of Journey to the Heart attendees and found some interesting things that we have not discussed. Most notably Chad Paine has attended JTTH seven times that I counted: June 2013, May 2012, October 2009, October 2008, June 2008, October 2007, August 2007. This is a ridiculously enormous number of times. Other Bateses and Bates spouses/courtees have also gone: Brandon Killeen on October 2009 and August 2009, Erin and Michaela Bates in March 2009 and even what’s his face who married Alyssa in April 2007. Priscilla has also attended 7 times fo rJune 2011, September 2010, May 2010, September 2009 and September 2009 Verity journey and June 2009. Also on September 2007 with Anna and another Kellar Ma Kellar got in on the action too on the mother’s journey September 2013 Pecan attended June 2010, September 2009 Verity Journey, September 2008 Verity, so "only" three times. I may have missed some times that people went and I didn't notice them but I just thought it was interesting and provides further proof the Bateses are just as deep into ATI as the Duggars, and the spouses of the two families even more so. Link to photos if anyone wants to peruse them livingthejourney.com/photos/journey-group-photos/nggallery/page/2
  3. For unspecified reasons, I have recently taken a special interest in Journey to the Heart (you know that Gothard camp that the older Duggar girls go to sometimes), and I found out some interesting things that I didn't know before. The basics: JTTH lasts 10 days and costs $800 for non-ATI students and $500 for ATI students. It's for single people aged 13 - 30. They have separate ones for boys and girls. For young men they mention that jeans are acceptable, and to bring neat, casual clothing. Shockingly, pants, shorts and capris are allowed for young women as long as they fall under the knee! Sleeveless tops are a no-no. Under "Agenda", I expected to find something about taking over the world, but instead it's a sparse list of activities based on days. Erika Shupe did not write this schedule because entire days are missing. On Thursdays: This will be a day of delighting in the Lord through fasting and seeking Him. How fun! In another place they write that "During the week there is a special day of fasting and prayer. We call it "The Day of Delighting In the Lord." Some people are not thrilled at the prospect of fasting, but when it is approached with a desire to hear from God, and a yearning to know Him more, it can be an amazing time of experiencing God's presence and reality." Maybe someone should suggest this to John Schrader for his next diet. The testimonies page is especially snarkable. There is so much in Katie Ruth's testimony that I don't even know where to start. She was born in a Christian home "but on her Journey in September 2007, she experienced salvation and the powerful fruits that followed." She says she got "saved" during her journey, which is weird because she would have been at least 13 and don't they usually get "saved" around age four (David Waller did)? After Katie's journey ended she visited another ATI family who somehow contained unsaved sinners, but Katie was able to make them realize their need for salvation and they became Christian (despite already being ATfuckingI). "Last Sunday my two older sisters and I, along with my friend Carrie and her sister, went through one of the hearts that we had not yet reviewed. The Lord used this study to help me realize that I do not have a believing, sound heart." So much wtf, so little time... Moving on to Courney's Journey: Courtney says "I am giving my heart back to my Dad (finally!!)... I'm SO excited and on fire for God right now I feel like it's a party!!" Hannah says "I thought I looked fine as a Christian homeschool girl - I wore the skirts,...I spent nearly an hour every morning in devotions and prayer... I knew I was having some trust issues" I wouldn't send someone with trust issues to a known child molester, but okay. Jared says "I struggled with my decisions to let go of rock music completely and to come totally clean, and Satan really attacked me." Maybe there should be a warning to parents that Satan has attacked campers. Poor little Julia's dad died and then her mom committed suicide when she was 11. Then she went to live with her uncle and aunt and this happened: "One day, we went to our pastor's house and we watched a moving film about eternity. It scared me. I knew where I was going. I was going to Hell and it terrified me. Well, shortly after that, I asked my Uncle and Aunt to pray with me. I prayed to receive Jesus as my Lord and Savior! ... I can now thank Him for the fires he took me through. I now realize if I hadn't gone through all of it, I would still be on the path to Hell." Kyle admits "I really didn't want to go on the Journey to the Heart. However, it was my dad's desire that I go, so I submitted..." He also says "...once a sin is exposed, confessed, and repented of, the sin has no more power over you. This is why it is crucial when we confess our sins that we confess every detail of the particular sin so that Satan has nothing to fall back on." His group leader told them to phone their parents and confess their sins to them. Fun!
  4. BriarRose1122

    So what was up with Jana??

    Im sorry but every time I think of Jana I think "Poor Jana". She just seems like such a sweet, kind girl who has a LOT of past hurts and sad memories. Being the oldest girl, she got the heaviest burdens when it came to watching the younger ones and helping with chores. And being one of the oldest kids in general, she got the brunt of her parents child rearing tenchniques. I honestly think the little ones now like Jenny, Jordyn, Josie are most likely NOT experiencing the same "child rearing techniques" that Josh, Jana, John David etc were exposed to. My opinion only, I just think they have relaxed a bit from how they were when their oldest kids were small back in the early 90s. It could be due to being on tv (aren't willing to strike a child with cameras watching) or it could be as a result of their age (they are now older parents, with perhaps slightly different expectations than they had when they were young new parents), or a combination of different factors. Anyhoo I think the little ones now are being raised a bit differently than the older ones were raised. Is there is any info on Jana like courtship news? Of course I want everybody who gets married to be happy in their marriage, but I especially want a loving, happy marriage for Jana, I really hope she ends up with some wonderful guy who really makes her feel valued as a whole person. (...and when I say that I mean the sort of guy who will decide that Jana's happiness, health, and general well being is a lot more important to him than having fifteen babies.) Also, people keep talking about how Jana was sent to Journey to the Heart? Does anyone know why?? I've heard Jana was "straying" but never knew what that meant or what was going on. I watch their show but haven't seen anything about Jana, they did mention Journey to the Heart but nothing about why Jana went. I'm VERY curious about why she went there.
  5. TheEnglishButterfly

    Reprogramming camps for the kids?

    So I'm sorry if its been discussed..... but I've seen things here am there through the years that a few of the Duggar kids have been sent to reprogramming camps.... can anyone elaborate? Who had to go, when and why? What camps were they? I think I heard 2 girls and a boy have gone througj the years.... any info? I'd love to read more.... I've read about these programming camps being downright abusive, either mentally or physically and often both! Thanks for any info
  6. I didn't know if I should post this but maybe FJ can give me some advice. One of my classmates/friend from high school sent both her daughters(14,15) to JTTH last year We keep in contact from time to time and she told me her daughters had so much fun They went hiking,camping, swimming,etc. She's wants to send them again this summer(for more brainwashing) She told me it was a Christian retreat. She said maybe my daughter would have interest in it(hell no)I don't think she's fundie just married to a conservative. Her kids attend a private christian school. My heart really hurts now for her and her daughters who probably need therapy now. I don't think she really knows what journey is. I'm just really sad and don't know what to say or do.
  7. I found this picture from JTH on the Duggar Fangirls Facebook page. Get a look at the girl in the green shirt, dead center. You cannot miss her hair. I'm sure the girl is very nice.... but her hair. It's like some animal fanning out around her head. What is it with these fundie girls and big, huge, Harper Valley PTA hair? And another questions, how did she get it to stay like that for longer than 30 seconds?
  8. Does anyone recognize any of the "ladies" in the current Journey? livingthejourney.com/2013/07/15/july-2013-girls-journey/
  9. According to Robert Staddon on the Journey to the Heart page, there is a group of young men currently on a journey to the heart. The picture of the group includes a Duggar child, I'm pretty sure it's Joseph. I'm wondering about all this (expensive) ATI indoctrination for Joseph. Is he particularly troublesome or particularly devout? I'm actually inclined to think devout. Screenshots included cause I'm on phone.
  10. I know this has been talked about, but I was just looking at "Duggar family Blog". They have a post on the Duggar girls at journey to the heart, and it looks like Jana has been at every journey in 2012 and many in 2011, while Jill has been at at least half. What on earth is she getting out of these constant journeys? In the pics she doesn't look like a supervisor or anything, she is dressed exactly the same as the other women and scattered through the photo lineups in various places. Also, the story states that JTTH is available for both boys and girls, as well as for families now. I'm wondering why Joseph and Josiah aren't doing the constant journeys too. I know JD is working, but I don't think Joseph is, and Josiah is older than Jinger and Jessa were when they started going, and Joy is already participating regularly.
  11. SpeakNow

    Journey to the Heart

    Photos of the Duggar daughters at JTTH https://picasaweb.google.com/101532170424444521371/TheDuggarGirlsOnAJourneyToTheHeartSeptember2009#
  12. recoveringgrace.org/2012/07/how-to-spiritually-manipulate-young-people-in-six-easy-steps/ Apparently, if you enjoy reading a novel, that's bad because it steers you away from loving God. That's how Gothard gets those girls on Journey to the Heart to feel bad about themselves and make them see how "sinful" they are, when they're really not. These poor girls are so vulnerable that a simple questionnaire, like the one posted, could break any of them down. According to Gothard, any simple pleasure in life that doesn't involve God, makes you an awful and selfish person.
  13. http://livingthejourney.com/2012/01/26/all-things/ I don't think she will ever marry but be perfectly content being a career missionary and/or devout Gothard employee like Pris Keller.
  14. FJismyheadship

    TLC ON THE JOURNEY!?!?

    On the 19 KAC facebook page a girl is claiming to have gone on the Journey with Jana and that there will be an epi about it! What do you think?
  15. I read either on here or on TWOP that Jana is going to Gothard HQ to be a Journey of the Heart leader? Does this mean that she will be living in Chicago and working for Gothard, as Anna Keller did for 2 years before she married David? I don't know if this is true or a rumor- thanks for any information. Also, was it ever confirmed publically that Anna is pregnant? Last photo I saw of her,compared to her family reunion pictures on Susanna Keller's picasa ,she looks so pregnant that I wonder if she is having twins
  16. Who on earth wrote this stellar sales piece for the Gothard indoctrination camp? I wish I could write them to ask them to please fire their "editor." Sorry, I still haven't figured out the embed feature here, so the link follows: iblp.org/iblp/discipleship/journeytotheheart/howjourneyworks/ I would have been downgraded for this mess in the 6th grade (ebil public school, of course). Wouldn't "a breathtaking, remote piece of God's creation" been sufficient? In that sentence, the its/it's blunder wouldn't have been an issue.
  17. bozgirl14

    Jessa = Jana 2.0?

    There is some speculation on TWOP and DWOP that Jessa has been banished, a la Jana, from being too visible on the show. Just last season she and Jinger were giggling in TH's about Josh's weight gain and about milking the cow on the trip to Europe. Now Jinger is smiling blandly and parroting whatever new TH partner Jill is saying, and Jessa is relegated to background shots. Some posters on the other boards are wondering if she will be sent off to re-conditioning camp soon. Notice Jana is now back on the show, keeping sweet and even accompanying JB and OfJB on a campaign trip to Michigan. Interesting. Josh was their crown prince and he was sent off to be re-programmed (and had his head shaved in the process). Jana is JB's favorite girl and she was shipped off to repent of her "pride". Wonder how they deal with the child they both have said is their "most willful". Poor Jessa Blessa.
  18. fencesitter

    Duggar website pic

    So this may be old news, but I was cruising the Duggar website photos and came across one in the "Journey to the heart" album of all of the girls eating the large cucumber sized pickles. Maybe I have a dirty mind, but I am truly surprised this on the website... Am I the only person who thinks the pic of girls shoving pickles in their mouths is, um, *suggestive*?
  19. I've seen people on here talk about her "re-education" What exactly does that mean?
  20. Has Joybeen sent to the Journey of the Heart yet? Some have noticed that she looks more Kool Aided and girls who resemble her greatly have been seen in photos. So has she, and ifso, is her spirit still there or will she have to go for re-education like (possibly) Jana?
  21. I found some pics on one of the Query girls facebook of a 'Journey to the Heart' retreat, and there were pictures of the girls kneeling with Priscilla's fiance and Bill Gothard himself with hands on them praying and such with the only description on the photo being "Anointing for Greater Works!" Was wondering if anyone could tell me what this process is for in Gothardism/ATI/IBLP etc? What it means etc. Is it basically the same as any blessing? <>
  22. holierthanyou

    Bible Memory Verses?

    While happily wasting some time jumping from Fundy blog link to Fundy blog link, I came across this blog which is for (current? former?) ATI "Journey to the Heart" girls, where they talk about how this month's Bible memory verse is to memorize the entire chapter of Romans 8 (39 verses). That seems like an impressive feat (or at least it would be impressive for my paltry brain). http://www.livingthejourney.com/ Anyway, it made me curious if most Fundies see that much Scripture memorization (on a constant basis) to be 'normal'? I had been under the impression that there was pressure to memorize one or two hundred individual verses when you are a child, but as a n adult you were more just expected to 'maintain' your memory of those verses. I did not realize that there was a large group of Fundies who seem to (?) memorize entire chapters (and even books) of the Bible every single month for their entire lives. How common do you think it is to memorize that much? Anyone (ex-Fundy, presumably) want to share what the largest single section of the Bible they memorized was? In high school I memorized the 23rd Psalm, but that was by far and away the longest passage I ever managed (and I couldn't get past the first verse today).
  23. Would it be wrong to infiltrate Journey To The Heart? Like seriously if I won the lottery, would it be wrong to sign up, and go embark on this journey... mostly to bring back the snark factor? Not that I will win the lottery... but I was just curious.
  24. I was on the Duggar's website and I saw a link to the Institute in Basic Life Principles. It's a Bill Gothard thing apparently. It costs $500 to $800 depending on ATI membership, and you get to meet Bill Gothard on the first day one on one. Anyway, I was checking out the Journey to the Heart thing that the Duggar girls attended, and the age ranges just don't make sense. From their website, "Journeys for young ladies and young men are for ages ranging from 13 to 30 years old. Journeys for fathers and mothers are designed for anyone age 30 and above." A) I don't understand how they could lump people 13-30 together. Why must one be over 30 for the father/mother one? C) If you are a motherfather who is younger than 30 can you attend the one for 13-30 because I get the impression the one for "young ladies and men" are geared towards single/nonparents? D)If the one for 13-30 yo is only for single/nonparents, what the heck would you do if you wanted to attend the conference if you are married with children but under 30? I tried to click on the registration link out of curiosity a few weeks ago, and I swear the one for the 13-30 group asked for parental information, which makes me think it was only for single people. All of that has changed now though. Can any of you figure this out? I'm not expecting it to make sense as it is a BG thing, but if they are excluding married parents under 30 it doesn't make sense from a financial standpoint.
  25. Someone on TWOP posted a photo of the girls who went on the retreat and speculated Jana was one of the counselors as she was sitting with the group on the bottom that included Priscella Keller-Gotthard supreme cheerleader.In that she wasn't forced to go.Do you think she has just resigned herself and decided to do the best she can with life handed to her?
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