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Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7


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Marian the Librarian
I've been sitting on my fingers for a couple of hours waiting for someone else to post this ...

But Marian's post is such a great lead in ...

And happy news is better than arguing with stubborn silverbacks like Westchamps...

I just can't resist ...

Nolan Manteufel has updated his profile picture on Facebook!

I congratulate them both and wish them full recovery from the cult, every success in moving forward, peace and much joy in the future.:D

Woo-HOO!!! What perfect timing. All best wishes and joy to them.

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nausicaa

Well, whattaya know! I hope they can build a fully healthy relationship and recover from the cult, as well.

I did not see that coming!

And slightly off topic, completely irrelevant comment: She DOES have green streaks in her hair!

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dawbs

Can you please point out where the Bible says that being wealthy, having nice possessions, and being in a position of authority/power are things that Christians should not have? I'm not talking about Doug Phillips here, I'm just asking in general. You seem to be somehow equating money/possessions/power with patriarchy=affair.

OH FFS.

You know better than this--or should if you've read your Bible. And I SHOULD know better than to actually craft an adequate response, but, apparently I don't. (Power is a separate discussion, so we'll just deal w/ the bolded)

Places the New Testament decries being wealthy/having nice possessions. There are more--lots more, but I chose those that were very clearly condemnations of wealth, rather than condemnation of failing to give (although they're part and parcel of the same discussion):

From Luke 3:10-14 (NIV)

“What should we do then?†the crowd asked.

John answered, “Anyone who has two shirts should share with the one who has none, and anyone who has food should do the same.â€

Even tax collectors came to be baptized. “Teacher,†they asked, “what should we do?â€

“Don’t collect any more than you are required to,†he told them.

Then some soldiers asked him, “And what should we do?â€

He replied, “Don’t extort money and don’t accuse people falsely—be content with your pay.â€

James 5:1-5 (NIV)

Now listen, you rich people, weep and wail because of the misery that is coming on you. Your wealth has rotted, and moths have eaten your clothes. Your gold and silver are corroded. Their corrosion will testify against you and eat your flesh like fire. You have hoarded wealth in the last days. Look! The wages you failed to pay the workers who mowed your fields are crying out against you. The cries of the harvesters have reached the ears of the Lord Almighty. You have lived on earth in luxury and self-indulgence. You have fattened yourselves in the day of slaughter.

Luke 16:13

“No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.â€

Matthew 6:21

For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 19:21-23

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.â€

When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.â€

THere are more, these are the ones I knew to look up off the top of my head.

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DomWackTroll
I've been sitting on my fingers for a couple of hours waiting for someone else to post this ...

But Marian's post is such a great lead in ...

And happy news is better than arguing with stubborn silverbacks like Westchamps...

I just can't resist ...

Nolan Manteufel has updated his profile picture on Facebook!

I congratulate them both and wish them full recovery from the cult, every success in moving forward, peace and much joy in the future.:D

Well, that explains a lot, doesn't it? :)

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MrsFoxx
I've been sitting on my fingers for a couple of hours waiting for someone else to post this ...

But Marian's post is such a great lead in ...

And happy news is better than arguing with stubborn silverbacks like Westchamps...

I just can't resist ...

Nolan Manteufel has updated his profile picture on Facebook!

I congratulate them both and wish them full recovery from the cult, every success in moving forward, peace and much joy in the future.:D

YAY! I wish them all the best, a manageable number of babies if they so desire, and a life free of DPIAT.

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westchamps
I must have been hallucinating that Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. Then there is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus...the whole "give us this day our daily bread" part of the Lord's Prayer, then their is "woe to you Pharisees, hypocrites!" which covers both wealth and power...the fact that in the early church wealth was held collectively, not individually (what was the name of that guy struck dead for withholding part of his wealth from the collective?). Oh, and Jesus declined several times to take on earthly power.

The Bible doesn't say that money is the root of all evil. It says that the love of money is the root of all evil. Jesus said it was difficult for a rich man to get into heaven. Not impossible. Then again, Jesus also said "Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it". I don't think he's just talking about rich guys there. Having financial wealth is not a sin. It's what one does with the financial wealth one has, that is good or evil.

So, you do the above bolded part (hold your wealth collectively), or you just think that Christians should?

But you know all this, you just think the cussing harlots over here never picked up a Bible or hate God.

Bible says by your fruit you will know them. A good tree doesn't produce bad fruit and a bad tree doesn't produce good fruit.

If the shoe fits.

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thoughtful

We need a bingo card.

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Talitha Cumi

Which leads me to one more point I wanted to make, based on some of the things I have read in this forum. You have called Doug's paramour "Hero" and persist in doing so, apparently after Shakespeare's "Hero" in Much Ado About Nothing. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Shakespeare's "Hero" was actually chaste and innocent, and was wrongly accused of being otherwise. Doug's paramour was neither chaste nor innocent, and has apparently admitted herself that she was wrong in her actions. Yet you persist in calling her "Hero". Why? What "Heroic" thing has she done? Is your hatred for Doug Phillips so white hot that you must do anything you can to convince yourself that Doug was 100% to blame for this scandal? I even saw someone on this forum suggest that it was a case of sexual assault! Was Doug more responsible for this scandal, because of his age and position? Absolutely he was, no question about it. Was his paramour responsible for her action and part in this scandal? Absolutely she was, no question about it! We're not talking about a child here. We're talking about an adult woman who apparently willingly had an extramarital affair with a married man whose wife was her friend and whose children she helped to care for. Was what Doug did sleazy? Oh yeah, extremely. Was what this woman did sleazy? Most definitely. Stop calling her "Hero", she is no such thing. She is partly responsible for helping to cause a lot of harm to a lot of people and families who ended up eventually losing their jobs when VF shuttered their doors, and who knows what damage she has helped to cause to Doug and Beall's marriage and the emotional health of their children. Can she be forgiven by God for her sinful behavior? Absolutely she can, and maybe she has repented, seen the error of her ways and been forgiven. We can't know. But she is no Hero, and you do no one any favors - least of all herself - by referring to her as such.

:laughing-rollingyellow::laughing-rollingyellow::laughing-rollingyellow:

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westchamps

This?

That's all you said about why he was so wonderful. There are no specifics there.

You want a laundry list of "good deeds" that Doug did? I don't think you really care.

It's no big deal -- I just thought you might have some anecdotes, some real examples of what he did and said, how you knew he was sincere. Even you admit he was a bit of an embellisher.

Because I'm a good judge of character, which is the same reason it was easy to see he was changing over time (after I lost personal touch with him), and not in a good way. I know lots of good people, and I'm sure you do too, who tend to embellish things a little bit sometimes. Sometimes it's just a "excitement of the moment thing", sometimes they're just trying subconsciously to make up for some perceived inferiority on their part. In Doug's case, it could be just as simple as short man syndrome. Regardless, the good qualities of the Doug I knew far outweighed his tendency to sometimes embellish things a bit.

Doug strikes me as someone many people would have seen through from the beginning, and unlikely to have changed over the years, but I could be wrong.

Maybe he hid it better in the early days. Maybe he hid it from you but not others, and you gradually saw more and more of the man behind the curtain. Maybe he had a stroke.

Yep, you are wrong. The reason I didn't see the Doug of today back then is because he wasn't there. As I said before, the Doug of today is not the guy I knew who had such a profound positive influence on my life many years ago. I haven't changed. He definitely has.

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Talitha Cumi
I must have been hallucinating that Jesus said it was easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven. Then there is the parable of the rich man and Lazarus...the whole "give us this day our daily bread" part of the Lord's Prayer, then their is "woe to you Pharisees, hypocrites!" which covers both wealth and power...the fact that in the early church wealth was held collectively, not individually (what was the name of that guy struck dead for withholding part of his wealth from the collective?). Oh, and Jesus declined several times to take on earthly power.

But you know all this, you just think the cussing harlots over here never picked up a Bible or hate God.

"Sell all you have and follow me" ring any bells?

Damn us fucking harlots.

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Talitha Cumi

I did not see that coming!

And slightly off topic, completely irrelevant comment: She DOES have green streaks in her hair!

I'm so happy for them! Hurray, hurray, hurray! :clap:

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MrsFoxx

Yep, you are wrong. The reason I didn't see the Doug of today back then is because he wasn't there. As I said before, the Doug of today is not the guy I knew who had such a profound positive influence on my life many years ago. I haven't changed. He definitely has.

Yep. Couldn't be that you were fooled, just like hundreds of others, drawn in by a charismatic personality who understood how to manipulate people. You seem pretty infallible.

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westchamps

That's not remotely what I said, so I don't quite know what to say to you, but I'll give it another try.

Doug is the person we are discussing, and Doug clearly went after wealth, position and anything that would build his ego. That strikes me as being contradictory to some of the teaching of Jesus.

I'm just trying to figure out whether you think that wealth, in general, is wrong for a Christian, or just how one obtains and uses that wealth?

You were equating being "coarse" with not being Christian. I don't know of anything Jesus said about that -- correct me if I'm wrong (I was sincere when I said I am not a great Biblical scholar, and am sincere in this request).

The Bible says that by your fruit you will know them. Good trees do not produce bad fruit, and vice versa.

In other words, you seemed to be deciding that people were not Christian based on a small part of their behavior.

How else are we to evaluate one's character if not in the observance of their behavior, even in a "small part" of their behavior? Luke 16:10 says: "He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much." I also never said there weren't Christian's in this discussion, I just said I was seeing scant evidence of such based on much of the discussion being, shall I say, less than Christlike in behavior.

As far as I know, the only prerequisite is belief in Jesus as divine.

The Bible says in James that "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

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FJSharkJump

In case westchamps missed what has already been pointed out - -

When Doug was impressing you with his oh-so-godly devotion to his wife and family and god, he was already actively breaking his vows and abusing his position of authority by engaging in a sexual relationship with the unpaid household help.

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Talitha Cumi

Somewhat off the current topic, but from one of Nolan's FB comments:

Continue to beware of Deceivers. They are deceptive.

Looks can be deceiving. But not as deceiving as a low down dirty... deceiver.

762e4b3cb830c86ef8092d276f655232.jpg

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Marian the Librarian

I did not see that coming!

And slightly off topic, completely irrelevant comment: She DOES have green streaks in her hair!

:lol: :clap: :cracking-up:

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thoughtful

You want a laundry list of "good deeds" that Doug did? I don't think you really care.

I care because I'm curious. How a person gets to be a Doug Phillips, and why people follow such a person, is so foreign to me that I want to know details about what was so appealing before what you perceive as a change.

Because I'm a good judge of character, which is the same reason it was easy to see he was changing over time (after I lost personal touch with him), and not in a good way. I know lots of good people, and I'm sure you do too, who tend to embellish things a little bit sometimes.

As I said, I really don't. Not that I haven't been pulled in by people in the past -- not so much for embellishing, as for other charismatic qualities.

I was brought up by very down-to-earth, honest parents. That created a view of bloviaters and embellishers that may seem contradictory at first. I was very savvy about some, and a ready victim for others.

If the style of the puffed-up person, and the things they espoused, were similar to those of the people in our everyday life (or TV preachers and other public personalities) whose conceit my parents had discussed, I learned to avoid them.

But I've met people who had a combination of traits that I didn't realize were as toxic, and it took me longer to realize they were harmful. Because of my straightforward parents, I had a tendency to assume people were saying what they meant, and had no hidden agenda or unspoken needs.

So I can tell you how I got pulled in by some people -- they were not embellishers, but they were enthusiastic about their interests and causes (which often lined up with mine). They didn't sit and pontificate -- they got out and did things, including some very kind and useful things.

But I gradually realized that they were willing to use others and break rules that got in their way, always had to be the center of attention (or the victim of perceived "persecution"), and voraciously in need of ego-feed. Some could turn out an official apology, as Doug did, when they were caught and had no choice -- some never admitted that anything was their fault or responsibility.

One hard lesson I had to accept is that they had always been that way, and will probably always be that way. Some, I think, really had no idea why what they did was wrong. I admit I was pulled in by them, when I was younger, but I try to steer clear of them now.

So, as someone who has been through similar disappointments, but who sees Doug as someone full of red flags and easy to see through (in fact, as a bizarre combination of truly heinous and really ridiculous), I am very curious as to the details of what made the Early Doug different, in your eyes.

The reason I didn't see the Doug of today back then is because he wasn't there. As I said before, the Doug of today is not the guy I knew who had such a profound positive influence on my life many years ago. I haven't changed. He definitely has.

And that still leaves me with curiosity about what the everyday, detailed differences are. I have a hard time imagining Doug being truly different in years past. I think he just didn't have the means and opportunity to let the megalomania flower.

Maybe you were young and innocent and pulled in by a con man. That's no crime, and nothing to be ashamed of. But your current behavior - full of puffed-up self-righteousness, defining Christianity by things like not being "coarse," etc., seems to be very reminiscent of Doug - recent Doug, if you insist there is a difference.

(edited for clarity)

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fiery redhead
Somewhat off the current topic, but from one of Nolan's FB comments:

Looks can be deceiving. But not as deceiving as a low down dirty... deceiver.

762e4b3cb830c86ef8092d276f655232.jpg

I know who that is! Haha :)

By the way, Doug Phillips is quite resourceful and creative in the sense that he continually recycles his ability to be an asshole bitch in new ways every year. The Allosaurus, screwing his family over by screwing someone else, saying stupid ass crap that is the worst kind of legalism, conning people, and now suing errybody.

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westchamps
(2) Many of us have been, to put it politely, screwed by his teachings, and we don't want others to experience the same. We've experienced the VF patriarchy/neo-Confederacy/anti-women/anti-children's-best-interests/ad nauseum culture at its worst, and that does not make one inclined to harbor any trace of fondness for the figurehead and perpetrator of this movement.

Not to be insensitive to whatever you have gone through, but if you have been "screwed by his teachings", is that on him, or is that on you for not holding whatever teachings you believe you got screwed by, up to the light of Scripture to see if they were indeed Biblical (if you had doubts)? What is the difference between people who feel they were screwed over by DP, and those who don't? World history is replete with examples of men who taught things that were not Biblical. So far as I know, the people who listened to those men and followed them, did so of their own free volition. I have never attended Doug's church, so I have no idea what he was preaching on Sunday's, and I'm not sure as to whether or not that is what you are referring to also. But if he was teaching things at church that were un-Biblical, wasn't it your responsibility to examine the Bible for reference? I think the bigger problem in the backlash to "patriarchy" is people who have taken it to excess. I have been reading and listening to Doug's writings and speeches for nearly 2 decades, and neither my wife nor I have ever felt "screwed over" by them, and if we ever had any doubts, we certainly would have felt it was our responsibility to compare them against what Scripture teaches. Are there some men who are proponents of "patriarchy" to don't treat their wives the best? Certainly, and there are plenty of men who are not proponents of "patriarchy" who have the same issues. I have never understood why it is so offensive to some women the idea that husbands and wives have complementary roles doing things in the arena in which they perform best. Most men are not naturally "nurturers". Most women are not naturally into building fences. My wife has a definite advantage over me in the domestic arts. I have a definite advantage over her in hard manual labor. Why do some women assume that means the wife is the "inferior" person in the relationship? We understand what we each do best, and attack those tasks with gusto. My wife and I love our arrangement. She loves that she doesn't have to go out in the work force to support us, and doesn't have to do the hard work outside the house. I love that I don't have to do the hard work inside the house. We are equal partners.

As for Doug's teachings being "anti-childrens-best-interests"....for starters, the very idea of what is in a particular child's best interest is extremely subjective. A public school administrator would almost certainly have a different idea about what is in my child's best interest than I do. My kids routinely test out multiple grade levels ahead of their same age public school peers, so I think I win that argument. You may have a completely different idea about what is in your child's best interest than what I think for mine. It is really ironic that you are trying to make this point because I have never seen any group that is more felicitous for the best interests of their children than fundamentalist Christians, particularly those who go to the trouble of home educating their children. We home educate our children and we spend copious amounts of time trying to make sure that we do everything possible to further both their education and their character. If you think that Doug teaches or was teaching something that was not in the best interests of your child, then certainly you bear the final responsibility for raising that child, not Doug Phillips. The whole nature of Vision Forum when it was started was all about the best interests of the Christian family, including children. Doug has betrayed those principles in his own family with regards to this affair, obviously, but that doesn't mean the principles and teachings no longer apply.

(4) To compound the former reasons, he has been selling this picture of human perfection by following the Law of Phillips while simultaneously living a double life, doing shameful things and betraying those whom he has strung along for years while indulging himself in any number of vices, including greed, narcissism, taking advantage sexually and emotionally of a young woman who essentially grew up in his home watching his kids (yes, she is not absolved of responsibility entirely, but given the circumstances the weight of responsibility clearly lies with DP), the legal screwing of many compatriots (ever heard the Allosaur/Dana Forbes/fossil museum story? The circumstances of his leaving HSLDA while pinching their contact lists in order to jumpstart his business?) for personal gain, etc. etc.

Yes, I am familiar with all the things you mentioned. He has betrayed his principles, his family, friends and Christians everywhere with his actions, and he deserves his downfall, I wish it had happened much sooner. That doesn't mean that the principles he taught were rotten, because he eventually strayed from them himself. The Bible isn't invalidated simply because sinful man teaches it and then sins against it. And I certainly never saw Doug selling a picture of "human perfection". Not sure where you got that from.

I know you knew him personally for some time, and believe he was at least at one point an honest and well-meaning man. I really don't know;

I don't believe it, I know it and experienced it first-hand. Many years ago.

all I know is that I have personally been very very negatively impacted by his teaching and ministry and while I definitely feel for his children and wife (you can't say you haven't seen many people on here expressing sympathy and hopes for a bright future for the Phillips children) it's also been very good for many to see that the emperor had no clothes.

I have seen some, but I have also seen a lot of people making snide, crass comments about some of his children and his wife, and I've seen a lot more people having compassion for Doug's paramour than for his children, who are the true victims, to be sure.

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westchamps
It is interesting Westcamps, that you are also on this site. And you seem to know quite a lot about us. One could say you have spent some serious time here as well..

Yep, I have, for a short time, as I said in my very first post. Albeit for reasons quite different than yours, no doubt.

It was sheer torture going through the comments in this whole thread trying to find a tidbit of actual information here and there, as opposed to invective and childish name-calling.

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thoughtful

I'm just trying to figure out whether you think that wealth, in general, is wrong for a Christian, or just how one obtains and uses that wealth?

Why? It has nothing to do with what I was saying. As I said, the only definition I know of for being Christian is believing that Jesus was not just a man -- that he was divine. I thought that made it clear that I don't think that having money in any amount makes someone not a Christian.

It is not my place to judge others for their "level" of Christianity (FTR, I've never been Christian, if that matters to you) - you seem to be doing so, and doing so for something that I don't remember Jesus caring about, and that's what I was pointing out.

Luke 16:10 says: "He who is faithful in a very little thing is faithful also in much; and he who is unrighteous in a very little thing is unrighteous also in much." I also never said there weren't Christian's in this discussion, I just said I was seeing scant evidence of such based on much of the discussion being, shall I say, less than Christlike in behavior.

In what way? Cursing? Discussing sex? Being angry about hypocrisy in someone who claims to be a spiritual leader (hmmmm, that last part reminds me of someone . . . )?

It may not appeal to you, but how does it make people less Christian?

The Bible says in James that "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder."

And? This quote seems to make you feel secure that you are a True Christian, and the people here (all of them? some of them? only the ones who are "coarse?" only the Catholics? details, please) who identify as Christian are not.

How about admitting that the comment you made was a potshot, something you are used to doing in a setting where, if someone uses a "bad word," you can say "well, you are hardly being Christian!" and everyone agrees.

Again, I'm no expert, but I don't think you get to decide what is "Christian."

But, if one was going to choose one aspect of life as a possible indication that one (whether Christian or not) is not doing their best to emulate Jesus, I just found it ironic that you chose "coarseness," whatever you meant by that. As others who know their Bible better than I have pointed out, Jesus had a lot to say about the dangers of wealth. Did he say anything specific about being "coarse?"

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thoughtful
In case westchamps missed what has already been pointed out - -

When Doug was impressing you with his oh-so-godly devotion to his wife and family and god, he was already actively breaking his vows and abusing his position of authority by engaging in a sexual relationship with the unpaid household help.

I think he said that the last time he'd had any contact with Doug was five years ago, but that the time when he knew him well was much earlier.

So it is possible that he was not in close contact with Doug, and not still goggle-eyed over him, by the time the affair was going on.

I guess he's not giving specifics for fear of people figuring out who he is or how he was involved with Doug, but my curiosity about how long ago the supposedly Wonderful Doug Who is a Paragon of Virtue existed makes me yearn for details.

Can you give us a decade, Westchamps?

Oh, and in that more recent contact, did you tell him off or challenge him in any way?

Were you still buying VF products, putting money in the pocket of this man who changed so horribly, right up to the end?

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westchamps

If what you say is true, it sounds like you were close with Doug Phillips Is A Tool during the height of his affair. Looks like you were in a position to notice something was amiss, and you were fooled just like everyone else.

Nope. Doug didn't even know this girl when I was close to him and his family. Guaranteed. If the reports are accurate of when he started his relationship with her, I have seen him in person exactly once since then (it would have been shortly after he started his affair, if the "timeline" is accurate), and I was able to talk to him and Beall for a grand total of about 5 minutes, in a crowd of other people, certainly no amount of time to discern that he was carrying on an affair (if indeed it was going on at that time). The last time I had seen him previously before that had been a few years before.

You're not angry because we are telling the truth about DP- that he is a liar, a scumbag, dishonest, untrustworthy, hateful, manipulative, and downright evil. You're angry because the idiot you looked up to turned out to be a worthless liar and fooled you along with everyone else.

He didn't fool me, he changed years after we were no longer close because of physical distance, and I already said we noticed some changes in him over the last few years that were not good changes, but only so much comes through in one's writings. You can't exactly tell someone is having an affair from reading an article they write on their blog.

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FJSharkJump

I think he said that the last time he'd had any contact with Doug was five years ago, but that the time when he knew him well was much earlier.

So it is possible that he was not in close contact with Doug, and not still goggle-eyed over him, by the time the affair was going on.

I guess he's not giving specifics for fear of people figuring out who he is or how he was involved with Doug, but my curiosity about how long ago the supposedly Wonderful Doug Who is a Paragon of Virtue existed makes me yearn for details.

Can you give us a decade, Westchamps?

Oh, and in that more recent contact, did you tell him off or challenge him in any way?

Were you still buying VF products, putting money in the pocket of this man who changed so horribly, right up to the end?

Ah, I see. Thanks for making that a little clearer. I am mistaken then. Sorry about that, westchamps.

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thoughtful

I keep thinking of this quote:

When I was a boy of fourteen, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be twenty-one, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years. - Mark Twain

Well, in reverse, of course. :D

But, whether Doug has changed or not, Westchamps doesn't seem to have any realization that not everyone can be strong-willed about not letting themselves get "screwed" by leaders and beliefs, especially if they are born into them.

And, since the system Doug built is the thing that keeps women undereducated and both girls and boys limited and warped in their view of the world and their place in it, they might find it harder than those who were raised outside the cult.

Should we all take control of our lives and beliefs, and have discernment about those who would lead us astray? Sure -- in an ideal world, but this is the real world.

As I've said, I like to think that I could have seen through Doug from the start. But that doesn't mean that I scorn those who couldn't -- I have a variety of feelings for them, and that includes heartache for some of them.

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      HerNameIsBuffy

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      She got so much wrong with me, but she had the best intentions and tried so hard. 
      She got so much right, too.  I forget that sometimes.  Sometimes I remember and dismiss it out of spite.  
      “They did the best they could with the tools they had.”  I forgot where I first heard that but I’ve carried it with me like a mantra since my parents passed.   They truly did.  Whatever else was missing, whatever I needed that they couldn’t give, the love was always there.  

      Always. 
      That’s something.
      My confidence in my own abilities.  Faith in my own power.  My own strength.  They gave me that, too.
      That’s also something.  
      They’re why I’m messed up, but they’re also why I’m okay.  
       
      Shit’s complicated.
      She died before I figured out how smart she really was.  Sad thing is I don’t think ever figured that out for herself.  
      Ignore me - just crying in my car waiting to pick up my son.  

       
       
      · 1 reply
    • CuttySark

      CuttySark

      The nice thing about posting about Jewish history is how quickly it flushes out the antisemites. 😘
      · 2 replies
    • choralcrusader8613

      choralcrusader8613

      I've been feeling a shitload of this for a while now about various types of Christians tbh.

      · 0 replies
    • HerNameIsBuffy

      HerNameIsBuffy

      It's Friday so yay!  But sweet Jesus I need it to be the end of the day already.  Crappy week and I'm so ready for it to be over.

      · 0 replies
    • nst

      nst

      I got vaccinated yesterday. In the am I got the email and I was  vaccinated 
      · 0 replies
    • PsyD2013

      PsyD2013

      Exhausted. I need a weekend off the grid.
       
      · 0 replies
    • 47of74

      47of74

      This will make the internetz explode. 
      · 1 reply
    • indianabones

      indianabones

      Making my fifth offer on a house tomorrow! I've gotten pretty attached to this one, too... fingers crossed!
      · 2 replies
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