Jump to content
IGNORED

Doug Phillips is a Tool & Vision Forum is Dead - Part 7


Recommended Posts

Palimpsest
I'm surprised that we haven't seen Justin Turley "step up" yet. He definitely has a flair for the dramatic, and how is he going to keep his website business going when 90% of his business came from Vision Forum? I think he and his dad started some "faith and freedom tours" thing, but you sure don't hear much about it. I was really expecting him to be more high profile.

And what of his younger brother, the hate-fuckable Samuel? Sam, if ever there was a need for rabid, racist neo-Confederates, it's now. Prove yourself in duel using marked-down, clearance-sale VF swords or refuse the name "Son of the South"!

Was Justin Turley a VF intern or one of Scott Brown's lot? All I remember was his massive wedding to the Keen girl who was featured in Return of the Daughters and their appalling wedding vows. Last time I looked they had 2 or 3 children playing dress-up already.

Speaking of internships, Scott's latest batch will start their program in May, poor suckers. I expect competition for places was keen after the Fall of Doug. As Bradrick! has moved on, for reasons that are a mystery still to be solved, I wonder if David Brown be the sole program coordinator/leader or if they find someone to replace Bradrick.

The LOLDoug where Doug swings from a vine with his legs spread is still one of my favorites. My foot positively itches to kick him in the nuts! :D

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 1k
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

  • westchamps

    162

  • Palimpsest

    58

  • thoughtful

    51

  • Curious

    37

Top Posters In This Topic

Posted Images

Mary C Doates

The Turleys do seem to have some potential to fill Doug (Phillips who is a tool)'s custom-made shoes/boots/slippers/sandals/clogs (footwear dependent on which manly adventure is going on, of course). They certainly seem to have mastered the smugness and toolishness requirements.

Doug Phillips: :music-tool:

Link to post
Share on other sites
justlurking
The Turleys do seem to have some potential to fill Doug (Phillips who is a tool)'s custom-made shoes/boots/slippers/sandals/clogs (footwear dependent on which manly adventure is going on, of course). They certainly seem to have mastered the smugness and toolishness requirements.

Doug Phillips: :music-tool:

Yes, but as DomWackTroll pointed out, the Turleys have a harder time concealing their racist, Neo-Confederate leanings. While they certainly are a bunch of smug tools, there's no way they could achieve the number of followers that Doug had in his prime---especially with so many fundies now choosing to adopt children of other races.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Snarknado

Barf. That's the first time I have been to the Turley blog. Another fundie blog full of flowery language that just makes them sound like 12 year old girls.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Mary C Doates
Barf. That's the first time I have been to the Turley blog. Another fundie blog full of flowery language that just makes them sound like 12 year old girls.

You'll enjoy the Jordan Niednagel blog, with extra nausea-inducing language, plus even more costumes! Really makes me shed a tear for the Vision Forum heydays, when Doug Phillips was still a public tool and there were sparkles all around... :cry:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Snarknado

You'll enjoy the Jordan Niednagel blog, with extra nausea-inducing language, plus even more costumes! Really makes me shed a tear for the Vision Forum heydays, when Doug Phillips was still a public tool and there were sparkles all around... :cry:

I have read some of that one. ick. I have to take some blogs in super small doses (namely any that condemn gay people) because I start to get depressed and sad.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hane

At my UU church, there's a hella-cool guy named Doug Phillips, known for his Hawaiian shirts and sense of humor. I once told him about DPIAT, whom he looked up and had a good yuk over. Today, at a godless heathen Ukrainian Easter-egg dyeing workshop after services, I told him about DPIAT being disgraced over his Inappropriate Affectionate But Not Sexual Relationship. Hawaiian Shirt Doug had a good laugh over that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
hoipolloi

From R.C. Sproul, Jr.'s FB page:

Love me some @jtitusp with no apologies. A good man from any angle.
Link to post
Share on other sites
DomWackTroll

He left an interesting comment on Bob Renaud's page...

Well, now you're just being a tease, CnD! You know we cannot see it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
CloakNDagger

Well, now you're just being a tease, CnD! You know we cannot see it.

Hmmm. I guess it would violate the TOS if I posted it then. Sorry, but it was interesting.

Link to post
Share on other sites
westchamps

First time poster here. I found this site a few weeks ago while looking for more details/clarity on what really happened in this Doug Phillips scandal. I have been lurking now and again, and while finding a few new details here and there, mostly all I have found is a bunch of adults (presumably) acting like children. More on that later.

I wanted to throw my hat in the ring with some comments about Doug Phillips and his family, since I knew them and spent a lot of time around them. Not as recently as the one or two others who have posted here, but I knew he and Beall very well some years ago. The last time I saw and spoke with Doug and Beall was more than 5 years ago. But I worked with him on a daily basis some time before that, for more than a year, and got to know them very well. I'm not going to say when or where I worked with him, but I did, and spent a lot of time with him, at work, at home, in the car. I spent time in the Phillips family home, went on a family trip with them. They attended my wedding. My family (wife and kids) fellowshipped and made personal visits to their home several times after that, but we eventually ended up living in different areas of the country and slowly lost touch except for Christmas letters and the occasional e-mail. We have continued through that time to receive the VF catalog and have been regular customers of VF, mostly for their excellent quality re-prints of old books.

The Doug Phillips who betrayed his principles, his family and practically everything and everyone he held dear is not the Doug Phillips I once knew. The man I once knew was sincere, hospitable, very principled and Godly, and a great friend. I am not at all ashamed to say that he was the single strongest male figure who influenced my life when I was making the transition from teenager to man. Was he a bit of am embellisher? Yes, he was, but that minor character flaw paled in comparison, in my opinion, to the good qualities he had. I am extremely grateful to him for the influence he had on my life during that time, and that influence has strongly shaped the man that I am to this day. The fact that he has betrayed those principles that influenced me as a young man does not mean those principles are any less true or valuable, or guide me any less in my daily life, only that they stopped guiding him in his own life. Why? Because I did not, nor have I ever, put my faith in Doug Phillips. He is a man, and has always been a man. Men fall. Men fail. I put my faith in God.

Though he was my good personal friend and colleague, our families were personal friends, and we have enjoyed and benefited from Vision Forum over the years (both in Doug's writings and in the wonderful collection of books they have sold through the catalog over the years), I am not, nor have I ever been, a Doug Phillips "groupie" like some Vision Forum proponents have been. I have never put Doug on a "pedestal" or thought of him almost as a "God-like" figure like some have. The same goes for Scott Brown, Voddie Baucham, Geoff Botkin, etc. They are all men, all prone to failure and sin, just like myself. I don't know a whole lot of Voddie Baucham, but I know all I need to know about Scott Brown and Geoff Botkin to know that I am not a fan of their "style" of Hyper-Patriarchy. At all.

My wife and I have noticed in recent years that Doug's VF Blog and the VF catalog itself have become "The Phillips Family Blog", and it was plain to see that Doug was developing some pretty significant Pride issues. We felt that his Pride and transition towards manly man "Hazardous Journeys" was starting very much to get in the way of the family vision that Vision Forum originally was about. I don't need to watch men going on "Hazardous Journeys" to validate my manhood, I do plenty of "manly" things in the course of my every day life and work. However, Doug Phillips is one of the last people I would have thought would have been caught in extramarital sexual sin.

During the time when I was close with his family, he and Beall were clearly head over heels in love with each other and would do anything for one another. I saw a man who loved and cared for his wife, and I saw a woman who loved and had respect for her husband. I never saw a man who relegated his wife to shriking violet status in their marriage, or who was a hyper-patriarch. They have a great love story from when they met in college until they were married. It wasn't an easy road. Doug had to fight for Beall's hand in marriage and when they were married he treasured her all the more for it. If you had asked me at any time since I've known them, what were the chances that one of them would have an extramarital affair, I would have said "zero".

That being said...What Doug has done is horrifying beyond belief. It has grieved and shocked us greatly. Some of the actions that Beall has been described as taking (since initially discovering Doug's affair) to try and cover things up are also horrifying and difficult for us to believe if true. Sexual sin of this kind in any Christian man is awful. In a man with a wonderful wife and kids, it is much worse. In a man whose whole career and reputation are based on principles so diametrically opposed to what Doug has been caught in, it is a million times worse. He has truly betrayed not only himself, his family and friends, and Christians who admired the things he taught and stood for, he betrayed anyone who is a Bible-believing Christian. Do I think he ever really truly believed those principles he espoused? Absolutely. No question in my mind. What happened? I have no idea. What happened to any of the Christian men who have fallen into sin and failed their families and their ministries, to cause them to act in such a destructive way? Books could be (and have been, I'm sure) written about the subject.

I am glad that the VF board forced him to resign, but it is still beyond shocking to me how it took so long for anyone to notice what apparently was going on for so long, and to bring it into the light so the sin could be dealt with. Either those people closest to him were completely blinded, or he did an incredible job of hiding his trysts, or both. Sounds like there definitely was some attempt to cover things up, as well. He and Beall are apparently implicated in that, as are the girl and her parents as well.

Which leads me to one more point I wanted to make, based on some of the things I have read in this forum. You have called Doug's paramour "Hero" and persist in doing so, apparently after Shakespeare's "Hero" in Much Ado About Nothing. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Shakespeare's "Hero" was actually chaste and innocent, and was wrongly accused of being otherwise. Doug's paramour was neither chaste nor innocent, and has apparently admitted herself that she was wrong in her actions. Yet you persist in calling her "Hero". Why? What "Heroic" thing has she done? Is your hatred for Doug Phillips so white hot that you must do anything you can to convince yourself that Doug was 100% to blame for this scandal? I even saw someone on this forum suggest that it was a case of sexual assault! Was Doug more responsible for this scandal, because of his age and position? Absolutely he was, no question about it. Was his paramour responsible for her action and part in this scandal? Absolutely she was, no question about it! We're not talking about a child here. We're talking about an adult woman who apparently willingly had an extramarital affair with a married man whose wife was her friend and whose children she helped to care for. Was what Doug did sleazy? Oh yeah, extremely. Was what this woman did sleazy? Most definitely. Stop calling her "Hero", she is no such thing. She is partly responsible for helping to cause a lot of harm to a lot of people and families who ended up eventually losing their jobs when VF shuttered their doors, and who knows what damage she has helped to cause to Doug and Beall's marriage and the emotional health of their children. Can she be forgiven by God for her sinful behavior? Absolutely she can, and maybe she has repented, seen the error of her ways and been forgiven. We can't know. But she is no Hero, and you do no one any favors - least of all herself - by referring to her as such.

I want to point out how sad and pretty pathetic it is that you all seem to hate Doug Phillips with such a white hot hate that you are....completely obsessed with him. Your hatred of him causes you to frequently act and say things in this forum that are in character for people who are much, much younger than you. Say, children. Do you really have nothing better to do than to refresh this page all day long looking for some new tidbit of gossip or some new opening where you can make snide, crass comments about him, his family, his associates, and fundamentalist Christians in general. You rejoice in his failure. For many of you, it is plainly obvious that it isn't Doug Phillips you hate, but God. For those of you who answer to that, I've got news for you, God didn't fail, Doug Phillips did. I don't hate Doug Phillips, although I don't think I could ever trust him again in a ministry role because of the enormity of his betrayal of his family. But I haven't lost any faith in God at all over this. He's still the same God He ever was.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Hane

Blah, blah, blah; wall o' text.

Sorry, westchamps--there are too many Christians and other theists here for us to "hate God." (And the atheists here don't even believe such an entity exists; it's impossible to "hate" something non-existent.) We REFUSE to conflate any patriarchal fundamentalist movement with the Deity.

We hate Doug's smarminess, phoniness, and duplicity. We acknowledge that there was indeed a considerable power imbalance between him and the young woman I dubbed "Hero."

What happened between Doug and her has its roots firmly planted in the very patriarchal "Christianity" you tout.

Link to post
Share on other sites

What is it with fundie men waffling on and on and saying very little? The phrase "empty vessels make the most noise" frequently springs to mind.

I don't "hate God" because I don't believe in such a being, although many here do. But via vision forum, Doug Phillips promoted an ideology that is inherently harmful to women - and one which, if it caught on as he hopes, would very much threaten my way of life. So you bet I'm glad to see him - and Gothard, and all the other skeezebuckets promoting the oppression of women as a religious virtue - thoroughly discredited.

Link to post
Share on other sites
hoipolloi
wall of text

Oh look, another so-called Christian coming here to mansplain to us how wrong we are and how right he is.

:sleeping-boring:

Link to post
Share on other sites
Palimpsest

Sigh. I do wish these people would keep to Fundie Fridays. Sunday evenings are not a good time to wade through walls of defensive and sanctimonious text. I wonder why this sermon was posted here rather than on JensGems or on Spiritual Sounding Board.

Westchamps Let me make this simple for you:

There is only one person here guilty of betraying his marriage vows.

There is only one person who pretended to be a Godly Religious Leader while betraying those same marriage vows and the very "family values" he was preaching to others.

There is only one person who preyed on a member of his congregation sexually in violation of his pastoral role and who engaged in harassing behavior toward an employee.

There is only one person who is responsible for the downfall of the Vision Forum that you prized so highly.

That person is Doug Phillips.

Everyone else involved is a casualty of Doug Phillips's behaviors. Some may feel partial responsibility for allowing Doug's betrayals, harassing and exploitative behaviors, and subterfuges to run rampage for so long without blowing the whistle. Some may even feel guilty about it.

The full responsibility still lies with Doug Phillips. So, stop attacking victims, bystanders and witnesses. And stop wasting your time calling us children for laughing at fools and Tools like DP and being compassionate towards his victims.

If you don't understand what I said above then you need to educate yourself about clergy sexual and spiritual abuse. Your arguments are facile, uninformed and, in this context, quite ludicrous.

Edit: punctuation.

Link to post
Share on other sites
snarkopolis

We don't hate God. We dislike intensely (with the heat of a thousand red hot supernovas) people (men and women) who use the Bible and any other religious tract to manipulate others. Specifically men like Doug Phillips (is a Tool) who used his position as a "godly Christian" man and leader of a religious movement that needed [(and still needs) to put women down in order to feel manly] to espouse patriarchy as something god wanted. In the course of his "manliness" he acquired lots of money (not very Christlike), many expensive possessions (again, not Christlike), and power (you know not very Christlike). And then he cheated on his wife by having an affair with a woman of tender years who was a follower of his non Christlike godly Vision Forum whatever. But I'll take your word that he was a swell guy (pssst this is sarcasm).

Link to post
Share on other sites
westchamps
Blah, blah, blah; wall o' text.

Sorry, westchamps--there are too many Christians and other theists here for us to "hate God." (And the atheists here don't even believe such an entity exists; it's impossible to "hate" something non-existent.) We REFUSE to conflate any patriarchal fundamentalist movement with the Deity.

We hate Doug's smarminess, phoniness, and duplicity. We acknowledge that there was indeed a considerable power imbalance between him and the young woman I dubbed "Hero."

What happened between Doug and her has its roots firmly planted in the very patriarchal "Christianity" you tout.

Since no Christian man who wasn't a proponent of "patriarchy" ever had such an extramarital relationship like Doug had.....right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
Tangy Bee

Since no Christian man who wasn't a proponent of "patriarchy" ever had such an extramarital relationship like Doug had.....right.

What...? Is this one of those trick questions? :shifty-kitty:

Link to post
Share on other sites
westchamps

I'm not defending the Doug Phillips of now. I don't know that guy anymore. I wish he had been exposed years ago for what he has become. The Doug Phillips of many years ago was a really great guy. That guy didn't put down his wife in order to feel manly. I don't know what happened. And while some of the more visible men in the "patriarchy" movement certainly come across as authoritarian and ruling their families with a heavy hand, you would be making a mistake to think that the majority of fundamentalist Christian men are the same way with their families. I can't stand this notion of the "Wallflower Wife". My wife isn't like that and I know few who are, amongst many fundamentalist Christian families. Doug Phillips' sin deserves to be censured and condemned by Christians. But a bunch of the comments on here are about the equivalent of "I know you are but what am I?"

Doug's paramour was not a victim. Adults are responsible for their choices. Unless she is mentally "slow", there is no universe in which she didn't know that having an affair with a married man with children was wrong. The biggest victims in this whole situation are Doug's kids. I haven't seen nearly as much compassion here for them as I have for your "Hero". I don't think you really care about the girl, she's only a "Hero" to you because she helped, unintentionally, to bring Doug and VF down.

Link to post
Share on other sites
thoughtful
Fundie Sunday!!

Fundie Sunday, it had to be;

Sunday evening, here they come, I’ll laugh ’til I pee.

Oh, Sunday morning, Sunday morning couldn't guarantee

That Sunday evening we would still be Fundie-free.

Fundie Sunday, can't trust that day;

Fundie Sunday, sometimes it just turns out that way.

Oh, Sunday morning, you gave me no warning of what was to be.

Oh, Fundie Sunday, self-righteousness at apogee.

Any other day, any other day,

Any other day of the week’s sublime, yeah.

But whenever Fundies come - but whenever Fundies come,

Both my eyes are rolling, all of the time.

Fundie Sunday, can't trust that day;

Fundie Sunday, it just turns out that way.

Oh, Fundie Sunday, won't go away;

Fundie Sunday, it's here to stay.

Oh Fundie Sunday,

Oh Fundie Sunday . . .

h81Ojd3d2rY

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.



  • Recent Status Updates

    • HarryPotterFan

      HarryPotterFan

      Happy Shavuot to all those who celebrate! I have no idea why, but for some reason God commands us to eat ice cream. Well, dairy. So eat cheese! Eat pizza! Eat ice cream! Eat cheesecake! It has no calories because God commands us to do so!
      · 2 replies
    • Jinder Roles

      Jinder Roles

      I know it’s just a beauty contest but this is the 4th time Jamaica was snubbed in favour of 5 contestants who were clones (with the exception of Peru) 
      Still can’t believe Mexico won. Even Olivia Culpo was looking at the results confused😂
      Shoutout to Haiti, Canada, Thailand and Myanmar who were also snubbed. 
      · 0 replies
    • Mela99

      Mela99

      I really love gobs.
      · 1 reply
    • EmCatlyn

      EmCatlyn

      Tired and confused,
      · 0 replies
    • Jinder Roles

      Jinder Roles

      I've somehow invested in this year's Miss Universe pageant. After watching the prelims my favorites are: 
      1. Jamaica (naturally lol but she's doing well)
      2. Haiti (love her energy) 
      3. Great Britain 
      4. Bahamas 
      5. Canada (a beauty! absolutely stunning!)
      6. Japan (adorable) 
      7. Cameroon (also adorable w/ an amazing costume) 
      8. Myanmar (seems sweet)
      9. Vietnam 
      10. Thailand 
      11. USA (I'm rooting for everybody black lol) 
      Not a fan of these but I think they'll place: South Africa, Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela, Puerto Rico, Peru, Australia, Denmark, Ireland, Dom Rep. 
      If they make Zozi (the current Ms. Universe) give the crown to a white girl from Pretoria, I will scream. 
      · 1 reply
    • WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

      WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?  »  church_of_dog

      I just made a lovely discovery! Type a colon, then a ) without any spaces. Then type a space. 
          
      I am ridiculously happy to discover this! (I also have a nagging feeling that I should have figured this out sooner...)
      · 11 replies
    • louisa05

      louisa05

      I’ve got a pack of rude sixth graders this morning. Ugh. 
      · 6 replies
    • HerNameIsBuffy

      HerNameIsBuffy

      Aren't I too old to forget to eat lunch?  
      So now....do eat a late salad and be cranky before bed because I want dinner and it's too late to eat or....do I tough out the afternoon cranky at my desk and eat dinner?  
      The dilemma is real.  
      · 3 replies
    • feministxtian

      feministxtian

      2nd Pfizer tomorrow!
      · 10 replies
    • Workingmom

      Workingmom

      So excited, happy. Finally I got my vaccination appointment. The first on the 26th of May , the second on my birthday.  Staying at home is no option, because I work in healthcare, with very close patientcontact. (I make mammograms). Hopefully I can relax a bit more after my vaccination and let the anxiety go.
      · 1 reply
  • Recent Blog Entries

×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.