Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[CloakNDagger]

Not trying to be overly pedantic CnD, I just want to clarify that you believe DPIAT may have more to hide than just this "public" scandal, and that you don't think his behavior toward Hero was 'merely a "sexual" downfall.'

If you can elaborate - without revealing more about your own self than you feel safe doing - it might prove enlightening.

What's hidden, is actually what's out in the open. He's reversed the obvious. It was so obvious that he got along really well with all of the young ladies that many of us didn't realize that he really was getting on with one of them thinking it was just his indiscretion and innocence. He told a number of the young men a story about how he learned while chauffeuring Billy Graham one day that the secret to avoid scandal was to avoid being alone in a room with a woman who is not your wife, and he clearly was breaking his own rules.

His pride and lack of accountability was really open for all to see, but many, many missed it. What's ironic to me is that people like you here saw through the deception of the "manly romps" like the whole Amazon thing while most of the crowd I'm in fell for the theatricality and deception (Yeah, that's a Batman Begins reference). He's been a Harvey Dent this whole time and we didn't realize it. Wolf indeed.

Most of what needs to be done is looking at passages like 2 Tim 3:1-9, 13.

[apple1]

He told a number of the young men a story about how he learned while chauffeuring Billy Graham one day that the secret to avoid scandal was to avoid being alone in a room with a woman who is not your wife...

i realize this is an "aside" to the actual story, but -

I think the chauffering Billy Graham is another DP made up story.

First - Billy Graham has always been 100% clear that he had that policy of not being alone with a woman who was not his wife. He has publicized that, it's been reported in many interviews, and retold (without the personal addition) about a gazillion times. It has been published in books about Graham's life. Everyone who has read anything about Graham knows it.

But could DP tell anything without making the story somehow about himself?

Gah.

[Palimpsest]

What's hidden, is actually what's out in the open. He's reversed the obvious. It was so obvious that he got along really well with all of the young ladies that many of us didn't realize that he really was getting on with one of them thinking it was just his indiscretion and innocence. He told a number of the young men a story about how he learned while chauffeuring Billy Graham one day that the secret to avoid scandal was to avoid being alone in a room with a woman who is not your wife, and he clearly was breaking his own rules.

His pride and lack of accountability was really open for all to see, but many, many missed it. What's ironic to me is that people like you here saw through the deception of the "manly romps" like the whole Amazon thing while most of the crowd I'm in fell for the theatricality and deception (Yeah, that's a Batman Begins reference). He's been a Harvey Dent this whole time and we didn't realize it. Wolf indeed.

Most of what needs to be done is looking at passages like 2 Tim 3:1-9, 13.

Hiding in plain sight. Rather clever really.

2 Tim 3:1-9, 13 :) I might quibble about these being the last days, but that is an incredibly apt description of Doug and his doings!

[CloakNDagger]

i realize this is an "aside" to the actual story, but -

I think the chauffering Billy Graham is another DP made up story.

First - Billy Graham has always been 100% clear that he had that policy of not being alone with a woman who was not his wife. He has publicized that, it's been reported in many interviews, and retold (without the personal addition) about a gazillion times. It has been published in books about Graham's life. Everyone who has read anything about Graham knows it.

But could DP tell anything without making the story somehow about himself?

Gah.

I doubt it was made up. Remember that his father worked for Reagan and he would have known some of those guys. I think he did that sometime around the first inauguration of the first Bush presidency. He also would talk about the one time he met Bill Clinton. He had observed carefully what it was about him that made you feel special... He is seriously quite the charmer when he needs to be. Now, looking back it is a bit freaky.

[Howl]

Hi, new poster here, but have been following this since last fall.

Good point, CnD, and I'll try to amplify a bit based on something I remember reading early on: When people were originally trying to sort out the identity of the "Other Woman," one poster noted that Doug was always surrounded by people in his daily life and was essentially never alone, so when was there a even a situation/occasion where this infidelity might have happened, let alone with whom? According to this poster, Doug Phillips was always surrounded by people, at home, work or traveling and at any time in between.

It seems that Hero (as a family friend and sometimes nanny) was the person of opportunity and the relationship was one of stolen moments in a domestic setting; there were simply no other opportunities where infidelity might have developed & occurred undetected. For this reason, perhaps there were no other victims, unless Hero was the replacement victim of a serial adulterer. Your opinion, CnD?

Also, re: speculation about Beall's health issues

Rather than an illness, might this have simply been stress/grief resulting from finding out that not only was her husband unfaithful, but her trust was betrayed by a cherished and trusted family friend who was probably close to at least some of her children? A situation like this can really set a person back, both emotionally and physically. Even though many of you may not find Beall a sympathetic figure, it isn't a situation I'd wish on anyone. So much pain & anguish are set in motion in situations like this, for all directly in the line of fire as well as those who become collateral damage, like the people who lost jobs when VF, Inc closed.

I don't know my Bible like some of y'all do, but weren't some of the strictures against divorce in the Bible related to keeping husbands from dumping their older but faithful wives for a newer model?

My husband and I were eating lunch at High's Cafe in Comfort, Texas (a few miles down the Interstate from Boerne) this past weekend & I was trying to give him the condensed version of patriarchy/right wing TX politics/VF/Doug/Leininger since we were close to Ground Zero of BCA. Although I was mindful to keep my voice a bit lower than regular conversation, 'cause you never know who's listening, he understood enough to say, "You might want to keep your voice down."

[Palimpsest]

sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=326141211470

Interview with Jaime Dean of World Magazine. Mostly factual. Pretty balanced. The only thing I would like to see is an inquiry beyond this to determine if this was merely a "sexual" downfall, or if that was just the tip of the iceberg, because I believe it was.

I finally listened to this. Nothing much new, just a recap of what was in the article.

However, the reporter Jamie Dean dances around like a hamster on a hotplate trying to avoid the question about Patriarchy!

She also seems very defensive, as though World Magazine has had a shit load of criticism for publishing the story.

[hoipolloi]

Update article in the Christian Post recaps the World article & names names: http://www.christianpost.com/news/doug- ... es-116847/

The former leader is not the only party thinking of filing a lawsuit. The attorney of [Hero] – a member of Boerne Christian Assembly, the church where Phillips formerly served as an elder – a close friend of the family and the woman with whom Phillips cheated on his wife, also suggested that she might sue....

Phillips' resignation from Vision Forum came nearly nine months after he had resigned from his elder position at Boerne Christian Assembly because of his relationship with [Hero], a fact which the church did not publicly acknowledge until January.

In a statement, the church said that in the months following Phillips' departure, "efforts were undertaken toward the goals of restoration and repentance between the parties involved and their respective families."

[SamuraiKatz]

Update article in the Christian Post recaps the World article & names names: http://www.christianpost.com/news/doug- ... es-116847/

Thanks for continuing to not use Hero's real name. I think that was kind of not cool of christian post

[MamaJunebug]

Welcome, Howl. Love your name!

I don't know my Bible like some of y'all do, but weren't some of the strictures against divorce in the Bible related to keeping husbands from dumping their older but faithful wives for a newer model?

Indeed there is. Were Doug a man of any substance, he'd have taught on that!

Remember that KISA insisted that Doug had *no *idea how he was coming across? That KISA or someone else would say, "That sounded really [some bad adjective]" and Doug would just look with innocent surprise and protest cheerfully, "Oh, no, no, that couldn't be! Not what I meant, at all!"

Bugger is consistent, if nothing else. That should help those who are standing up to him, to remember. He's not going to change his spots nor his M.O. Trust him less than half as far as you could throw him!

[Nutamole]

Thanks for continuing to not use Hero's real name. I think that was kind of not cool of christian post

I'm surprised CP didn't mispelll it. Although they got the 3 young *destroyer*s names right the first time, they later call them "Renaud, Bradwick and Meula". Renaud, Bradrick!, and Muela. Or, as Elmer Fudd would say-- BWADWICK!

Seriously, where were all the big names of Patriarchy, who preach accountablilty, when it came time to hold DPIAT accountable? Brown, for one, was (still IS?) on his board and KNEW over a month earlier. BEFORE DPIAT went off on an official non-hazardous VF journey to Greece. :angry-banghead: Did he send Bradrick! off to confront Doug, or did Bradrick! and friends initiate things on their own?

[hoipolloi]

Thanks for continuing to not use Hero's real name. I think that was kind of not cool of christian post

Until I see something more definitive, such as a public statement from Hero, I'd refrain from posting her name here.

[ILoveJellybeans]

OMG have you seen the way he is sitting in that picture of him with the Duggars. He looks so smug and punchable.

Shame on them for naming Hero. She hasn't come out publically and said it was her, so she probably doesn't want her identity to be given and her name associated with this.

[WonderingInWA]

I'm surprised CP didn't mispelll it. Although they got the 3 young *destroyer*s names right the first time, they later call them "Renaud, Bradwick and Meula". Renaud, Bradrick!, and Muela. Or, as Elmer Fudd would say-- BWADWICK!

Seriously, where were all the big names of Patriarchy, who preach accountablilty, when it came time to hold DPIAT accountable? Brown, for one, was (still IS?) on his board and KNEW over a month earlier. BEFORE DPIAT went off on an official non-hazardous VF journey to Greece. :angry-banghead: Did he send Bradrick! off to confront Doug, or did Bradrick! and friends initiate things on their own?

Bwadwick! LOLOL.

And Brown has got to be shaking in his shoes. He's effectively bowed out of his accountability, but it's probably going to catch up with him. He's letting Bradrick! take the fall, but I'm sure he's pooping his pants that he's going to be investigated, too. He's honestly no better than DPIAT. He's just probably not cheating on his wife. At least one can hope.

[Cleopatra7]

Hopefully, this and Gothard's fall will help end this quiverfull/patriarchy fad, at least among conservative Christians who are sitting on the fence. Then again, once quiverfull dies, some other crazy fad will take its place, like maybe polygamy... :?

[Othello]

Brown, for one, was (still IS?) on his board and KNEW over a month earlier. BEFORE DPIAT went off on an official non-hazardous VF journey to Greece. :angry-banghead: Did he send Bradrick! off to confront Doug, or did Bradrick! and friends initiate things on their own?

I don't know how much Brown knew when or anything of the sort; however a former NCFIC intern mentioned to me recently that Hope Baptist had been going through some amount of turmoil during that period, describing it vaguely (he's still a devotee of the movement, if not the Person of DPIAT) as "pruning" as a result of "enacting church discipline." Cryptic, yes; but informative? Perhaps. The only thing that I know for sure is that a large portion of members (including many who had been there for some years) left Hope Baptist, apparently as a result of some discipline enacted by church leadership (most likely an excommunication, essentially making an arbitrary decision that the person(s) in question are damned), so it's possible that as the particulars of Doug Phillips Is A Tool's modus operandi were unfolding, Scott Brown may have had too much damage control of his own to worry about, to maintain his own little empire, without getting involved in the spectacular self-destruction of DPIAT.

[hoipolloi]

I don't know how much Brown knew when or anything of the sort; however a former NCFIC intern mentioned to me recently that Hope Baptist had been going through some amount of turmoil during that period, describing it vaguely (he's still a devotee of the movement, if not the Person of DPIAT) as "pruning" as a result of "enacting church discipline." Cryptic, yes; but informative? Perhaps. The only thing that I know for sure is that a large portion of members (including many who had been there for some years) left Hope Baptist, apparently as a result of some discipline enacted by church leadership (most likely an excommunication, essentially making an arbitrary decision that the person(s) in question are damned), so it's possible that as the particulars of Doug Phillips Is A Tool's modus operandi were unfolding, Scott Brown may have had too much damage control of his own to worry about, to maintain his own little empire, without getting involved in the spectacular self-destruction of DPIAT.

Re: bolded. When was this? Oct - Dec 2013? Earlier this year (2014)? Earlier in 2013 (when DPIAT had "confessed" to the "elders" at BAC and had been put under "church discipline")?

Re: Hope Baptist Church. Take a look at their process for becoming a member (hopebaptistchurch.info/membership-process/):

There is a two step process:

1. Membership applicants will complete the membership process specified by the elders (which includes teaching times), meet with an elder to communicate their Christian testimony, history in past churches, discuss the commitments of the church and affirm their agreement with the documents of the church by reviewing them during that meeting.

2. Upon approval, they will publicly read the covenant to the church affirming their acceptance into the membership of the church.

All actions regarding membership, either of admission or dismissal, shall be conducted at any of the regular meetings for worship. The Church may, without special notice, act upon the reception of members, or upon transfer of members to other churches.

The elders will maintain a membership list, including names, dates of birth, with yes/no entries for baptism, profession of faith, and communicant status. This membership list is not to be confused with a church directory of addresses and phone numbers.

What a bunch of assholes. How could thinking adults be taken in by such dreck?

ETA: Missed this stunningly obnoxious & stupid "Elder Assessment Form" (hopebaptistchurch.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Elder-Assessment-Form.pdf).

[gustava]

Hero's attorney seems to have outed her by stating that she might sue, so, in effect, he's identified her....though our not using her name seems the ethical thing to do.

[mirele]

I was thinking Doug might have inherited money from his father Howard Phillips' estate. (Howard died on April 20, 2013.)

Also, I don't think Hero should have been named at all.

[CloakNDagger]

I was thinking Doug might have inherited money from his father Howard Phillips' estate. (Howard died on April 20, 2013.)

Also, I don't think Hero should have been named at all.

I doubt it. His mother is still alive, and they weren't doing that well from what I remember.

[CloakNDagger]

I don't know how much Brown knew when or anything of the sort; however a former NCFIC intern mentioned to me recently that Hope Baptist had been going through some amount of turmoil during that period, describing it vaguely (he's still a devotee of the movement, if not the Person of DPIAT) as "pruning" as a result of "enacting church discipline." Cryptic, yes; but informative? Perhaps. The only thing that I know for sure is that a large portion of members (including many who had been there for some years) left Hope Baptist, apparently as a result of some discipline enacted by church leadership (most likely an excommunication, essentially making an arbitrary decision that the person(s) in question are damned), so it's possible that as the particulars of Doug Phillips Is A Tool's modus operandi were unfolding, Scott Brown may have had too much damage control of his own to worry about, to maintain his own little empire, without getting involved in the spectacular self-destruction of DPIAT.

Are you saying that this is something after this: ephesians511.wordpress.com ?

I'm actually shocked at the amount of church leadership controversies that seem to engulf the NCFIC movement.

[FJSharkJump]

I think Bradrick! was honestly blindsided. I don't think he ever saw anything amiss or purposely covered up unethical behavior for DPIAT. I hold this opinion mostly because Bradrick! just doesn't seem all that bright to me. If he "knows where the bodies are buried" and has dirt on DPIAT, I don't think he even knows that he knows.

I do wonder what he (and Kelly) now knows about his FIL though. That sudden move clear across the country had me raising my eyebrows. I think the shit hit the fan among the Browns in the wake of Bradrick!'s disillusionment with DPIAT. I think both Peter and Kelly found something to be very disappointed with in Kelly's dad. I'm hoping for Kelly's sake that both she and Bradrick! are going through a metamorphosis and will re-emerge as mainline protestant christians (I won't bother hoping for agnosticism or atheism) and put a stop to the whole quiverfull and patriarchy nonsense. They can both put the kids in school and daycare and get jobs and work their way through college and then get better jobs and support each other and just have a happy, normal family. The kids can participate in sports and orchestra and science clubs during the week and then they can all go to church together on Sundays.

Oh, also, they could write a "How We Left the Quiverfull Cult" memoir and share all the dainty morsels. :mrgreen:

[WonderingInWA]

I think Bradrick! was honestly blindsided. I don't think he ever saw anything amiss or purposely covered up unethical behavior for DPIAT. I hold this opinion mostly because Bradrick! just doesn't seem all that bright to me. If he "knows where the bodies are buried" and has dirt on DPIAT, I don't think he even knows that he knows.

I do wonder what he (and Kelly) now knows about his FIL though. That sudden move clear across the country had me raising my eyebrows. I think the shit hit the fan among the Browns in the wake of Bradrick!'s disillusionment with DPIAT. I think both Peter and Kelly found something to be very disappointed with in Kelly's dad. I'm hoping for Kelly's sake that both she and Bradrick! are going through a metamorphosis and will re-emerge as mainline protestant christians (I won't bother hoping for agnosticism or atheism) and put a stop to the whole quiverfull and patriarchy nonsense. They can both put the kids in school and daycare and get jobs and work their way through college and then get better jobs and support each other and just have a happy, normal family. The kids can participate in sports and orchestra and science clubs during the week and then they can all go to church together on Sundays.

Oh, also, they could write a "How We Left the Quiverfull Cult" memoir and share all the dainty morsels. :mrgreen:

I think that's some pretty wishful thinking. Out of the frying pan and into the fire moving away from the Browns' territory and into the Bradrick territory. Ma and Pa Bradrick are really no better on the patriarchy front than the Browns or DPIAT/VF. I feel a little (just only a little) sorry for Kelly having to move away from her mom, though, because I think she probably helped her a lot emotionally and physically with her gaggle of babies. Guess that job will be up to Ma Bradrick, now.

[nokidsmom]

I think that's some pretty wishful thinking. Out of the frying pan and into the fire moving away from the Browns' territory and into the Bradrick territory. Ma and Pa Bradrick are really no better on the patriarchy front than the Browns or DPIAT/VF. I feel a little (just only a little) sorry for Kelly having to move away from her mom, though, because I think she probably helped her a lot emotionally and physically with her gaggle of babies. Guess that job will be up to Ma Bradrick, now.

I agree that Bradrick! was blindsided and didn't think anything was wrong, even if there were hints/signs right there in front of him. He's was too enamored of his great leader to ever think he would do anything wrong and anything that seemed "off" would have been rationalized if noticed at all. He doesn't seem too bright either but it might simply be that he drunk too much of the koolaid.

Also agree that going back to the Bradrick family territory doesn't strike me as going more mainstream. While the move across the country might have had to do with disappointment with Brown and putting some distance between them it may just have been to go back to his family to recover and get back on his feet emotionally. It was obvious that DPIAT's fall hit him very hard.

[Evil Feminist]

Also agree that going back to the Bradrick family territory doesn't strike me as going more mainstream. While the move across the country might have had to do with disappointment with Brown and putting some distance between them it may just have been to go back to his family to recover and get back on his feet emotionally. It was obvious that DPIAT's fall hit him very hard.

I wouldn't think so. Bradricks! dad, Michael, is on the board of Christian Heritage. Their big homeschool for WA is coming up at the end of April. Featured speakers include Ken Ham, RC Sproul AND Scott BrowTn. I'm sure DPiaT would be there/has been if it wasn't for his recent 'misfortune'.

Btw, I have discovered who wrote the Understanding Writing course my mom tried to get me to do in homeschool high school... Susan Bradrick :angry-banghead: . The crazy is every where!

[MamaJunebug]

Yeah, Kelly and Peter moving to Washington just means more of the same from the grandma Susan Bradrick – see this article written by her about forcing kids to stay still.

familydiscipleshipmin.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/teaching-toddlers-to-sit-still.pdf

The blog she and her husband started hasn't been updated since 2012, when they were anticipating their – wait for it – 37th grandchild.

On the upside, with that many grandbabies, maybe Peter and Kelly's five will skate by. Grandma can't be paying attention that well anymore.

Talk about the sins of the fathers being visited on the children. Multigenerational goofiness. Anyway, back to Doug.