Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[Arete]

If Dougie had really taught Joshua Titus and Justice the "Christian doctrine of women and children first" and all the other crap he goes on with about protecting the poor helpless women, they, as adult men, would assist their mother in separating from her adulterous husband with dignity and give their sisters the option of removing themselves from a situation that must be devastating for them right now. They wouldn't be posing with their mother, putting on big false smiles so Doug can project an image of family unity.

I absolutely agree with you in theory, but in reality these are two young men who have very few skills to make a living, so of what practical help can they be to their mother and sisters? They are grossly undereducated, were purposely kept from developing critical thinking skills, and on top of that raised to be lords of the manor. For that, both their parents need to hang their heads in shame. JT and Justice didn't get to chose anything, and have been raised with such deficiencies they are incapable of saving anyone/

[Marian the Librarian]

It isn't fair to blame any of his victims and that includes his wife, children and ex lover. Doug seems to be a manipulative man who does not care who he hurts as long as he gets his way. My only surprise is that more young women or men haven't come forward because I find it hard to believe that Hero was his first affair.

Remember this is a man who tried to climb into a woman's window. He sounds obsessive and selfish. That one incident took his behavior from just a man having an affair(bad enough) to stalker territory and that makes me worry for anyone who is involved with him.

The one thing that causes me to have a little less sympathy for Hero is that she wasn't repulsed when Doug told her that she would eventually be wife number two when Beall died. For lack of a more mature word, that just seems icky and would have terrified me in her place.

CnD said that Darnell felt that his efforts to win a wife was hampered by those in the church. Was Hero the potential object of Darnell's affection?

I suspect Hero was the potential object of any number of young men's affections - but, according to the recent information on Spiritual Sounding Board, Doug made sure they were deflected so he could keep her all to himself. Our very own KISA said "I used to think [Hero] was amazing," back when he visited FJ in October 2011. (I'm not linking, out of respect for the stated wish that we not include her name in this thread.) Now I wonder if KISA knew, or at least suspected, what was going on.

Doug really disgusts me. Women and children first, my ass.

[lilith]

I absolutely agree with you in theory, but in reality these are two young men who have very few skills to make a living, so of what practical help can they be to their mother and sisters? They are grossly undereducated, were purposely kept from developing critical thinking skills, and on top of that raised to be lords of the manor. For that, both their parents need to hang their heads in shame. JT and Justice didn't get to chose anything, and have been raised with such deficiencies they are incapable of saving anyone/

You're right, they were raised with the expectation that the Phillips name would be the only asset they needed, and right now it's a huge liability.

I've been wondering if the Phillips family attended Darby Sproul's wedding. That would be pretty indicative of whether the fundie establishment is shunning them.

[DomWackTroll]

You're right, they were raised with the expectation that the Phillips name would be the only asset they needed, and right now it's a huge liability.

I've been wondering if the Phillips family attended Darby Sproul's wedding. That would be pretty indicative of whether the fundie establishment is shunning them.

I don't know... RC Jr. is a hard-drinkin' Presby who probably doesn't give a crap what goody-two-shoes Baptists like Scott Brown think of him. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Doug's recent "bad boy" antics made him all the more attractive to RC Jr.

RC Jr. and fellow Presby Doug Wilson appeal more to the male, hardcore-theological-study audience while Baptists Scott and Voddie do the "bring the whole family" thing. The mild distaste between these groups has long been apparent, though Phillips seemed to successfully straddle the line for many years.

[lilith]

I don't know... RC Jr. is a hard-drinkin' Presby who probably doesn't give a crap what goody-two-shoes Baptists like Scott Brown think of him. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me if Doug's recent "bad boy" antics made him all the more attractive to RC Jr.

RC Jr. and fellow Presby Doug Wilson appeal more to the male, hardcore-theological-study audience while Baptists Scott and Voddie do the "bring the whole family" thing. The mild distaste between these groups has long been apparent, though Phillips seemed to successfully straddle the line for many years.

Hmmm. Dougie and RC have publicly endorsed each other. I wonder if Phillips will move towards more hardcore Calvinism now he's lost his more puritan baptist following.

I would absolutely have expected him and family to he invited to the wedding pre scandal though, and am curious if he still was.

I agree that Doug's non biblical affair wouldn't bother Sproul the way it would Brown, Bradrick! and co, and wonder if he'll find sanctuary in those circles.

[MamaJunebug]

From the Hampton Roads VA Daily Press, April 29, 1990:

It's a small world after all...it's a small world after all... :whistle:

Dagnabbit, you are GOOD!!!! :worship:

[WonderingInWA]

Dagnabbit, you are GOOD!!!! :worship:

I keep saying it, Marian is the best Librarian evah! :) Thanks, Marian!

[WonderingInWA]

BTW, Marian -- any idea why Bradrick! would have had a guardianship case back in 1996 when he was a minor?

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/

:whistle:

[Marian the Librarian]

I keep saying it, Marian is the best Librarian evah! :) Thanks, Marian!

Shucks folks, 'twarn't nothing but Patience and Persistence...hey! those sound like good candidates for the fundie baby name thread!! :lol:

[debrand]

BTW, Marian -- any idea why Bradrick! would have had a guardianship case back in 1996 when he was a minor?

http://dw.courts.wa.gov/

:whistle:

I feel a bit stupid because I am not certain what I am looking at.

Order Appointing Guardian Ad Litem

M Bradrick & S Bradrick

[debrand]

I feel a bit stupid because I am not certain what I am looking at.

These are Peter's parents? Who were they given guardianship over?

[WonderingInWA]

I feel a bit stupid because I am not certain what I am looking at.

Well, exactly! Why would his parents NOT have been his guardians to begin with, right? Why is there a case at all? I'd love to know the story behind it.

[debrand]

Well, exactly! Why would his parents NOT have been his guardians to begin with, right? Why is there a case at all? I'd love to know the story behind it.

Is there anyway to find out? Did they lose custody of one of their children? How old was Peter during this time period? My goodness, this creates a lot of questions.

[hoipolloi]

Does "Michael C. Bradrick" = "Michael Clayton Bradrick"?

If so, then he's listed as defendant in five other closed cases listed in the WA court records, from Aug 2011 to nov 2013, in three jurisdictions. My guess is speeding tickets but can't tell much from the online records.

[WonderingInWA]

Is there anyway to find out? Did they lose custody of one of their children? How old was Peter during this time period? My goodness, this creates a lot of questions.

Bradrick! is 31 now, so he would have been about 13 in 1996. And then there looks like there was some money that had to change hands when he turned 18 in 2000/2001. Soooo interesting.

[WonderingInWA]

Does "Michael C. Bradrick" = "Michael Clayton Bradrick"?

If so, then he's listed as defendant in five other closed cases listed in the WA court records, from Aug 2011 to nov 2013, in three jurisdictions. My guess is speeding tickets but can't tell much from the online records.

Yep. Gray's Harbor is the county where Michael and Susan live (they live in a town called Montesano). Hard to tell why he would have had so many scuffles with the law.

[Marian the Librarian]

The 1996 case is "Re: the settlement of the claims of the Bradrick minors." It *may* have something to do with inheritance, but I'm not sure. It's a civil case, so the case documents are available (i.e. public record) to anyone who cared to send their request and $$$ to the Grays Harbor County Clerk's Office.

The rest are, indeed, speeding tickets and other traffic infractions - again, all public record. Bradrick Pere apparently has a lead foot!

[Escapefromfundiedom]

Re: Guardianship...there may have been a settlement that involved payment for the children for something. In these cases, the court will appoint a guardian to act as custodian of the account until the minor reaches 18.

sidenote: I know people who live in Montesano...they were hardcore fundies back in the day, I wonder if they crossed paths with the Bradricks...

ETA - Marian the research goddess beat me to it. :)

[WonderingInWA]

The 1996 case is "Re: the settlement of the claims of the Bradrick minors." It *may* have something to do with inheritance, but I'm not sure. It's a civil case, so the case documents are available (i.e. public record) to anyone who cared to send their request and $$$ to the Grays Harbor County Clerk's Office.

The rest are, indeed, speeding tickets and other traffic infractions - again, all public record. Bradrick Pere apparently has a lead foot!

Marian the Uber-Librarian! Thanks! It's hard to decipher those long lists of court documents! My own divorce is on that website, and I don't know half of what all the document entries are!

[WonderingInWA]

Re: Guardianship...there may have been a settlement that involved payment for the children for something. In these cases, the court will appoint a guardian to act as custodian of the account until the minor reaches 18.

sidenote: I know people who live in Montesano...they were hardcore fundies back in the day, I wonder if they crossed paths with the Bradricks...

How could they NOT have? The town is small and there are a lot of Bradricks and they have a big ranch/farm. Impossible not to have crossed paths!

[Escapefromfundiedom]

How could they NOT have? The town is small and there are a lot of Bradricks and they have a big ranch/farm. Impossible not to have crossed paths!

Right??? I haven't talked to them in ages...is it tacky to renew a friendship just so you can dish on VF royalty downfall? ;-)

[WonderingInWA]

Right??? I haven't talked to them in ages...is it tacky to renew a friendship just so you can dish on VF royalty downfall? ;-)

Nope. Go for it! And ask them if they've seen Peter and Kelly wandering around town. They'd be hard to miss with their gaggle of children.

[Earthshine]

I completely disagree with JA's opinion here. Hero was not without agency. I came to my conclusion based on what was presented thus far, life experience, knowledge of fundamentalism, and observations on human behavior. Take the emotions out of it. Look at the timeline and you'll see that actions of Doug and Hero, especially in relation to the kids, are foul. I have no dog in this fight. As such, I will not bend to popular religious thought about keeping silent about Doug, nor brainlessly supporting an alleged adult victim. (An alleged victim who had enough intelligence to try and cover her tracks. Whether told to or not, hiding stuff implies knowledge of wrongdoing. )

That's the benefit of being an atheist. So I wouldn't call her a Jezebel. That doesn't fit. I read the story. I'd call her actions wrong. I hope she doesn't do something like this again. Time will tell. Doug is a snake and from my experience, probably beyond hope.

When my ex abused me-an adult-I knew to hide it and cover it up. I didn't want him to lose everything. When your head and feelings are twisted by an abuser, it is possible to be more concerned for what will happen to your abuser than your own self. And Doug was not just a romantic partner. He was a spiritual authority figure over her, in what is a very legalistic religion. Hero may not have even realized she had agency-Tool is adept at manipulation. Also, I really don't understand what atheism has to do with your view of this? I'm an atheist, too, and I obviously see this in a very different light than you.

[debrand]

Didn't Bradrick once have a tweet that said something about how nice it was when drivers flashed their headlights to warn one another of police up ahead? Well, now we have further evidence that he has always had a lead foot.

[WonderingInWA]

Didn't Bradrick once have a tweet that said something about how nice it was when drivers flashed their headlights to warn one another of police up ahead? Well, now we have further evidence that he has always had a lead foot.

Maybe. But the speeding tickets are under Bradrick!'s (how does one punctuate that properly) father's name, not his.