Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[debrand]

I can't imagine what it must be like to belong to that family. IF Beall left would her kids refuse to go also? I wouldn't put it past Doug to force his kids to pick a side instead of trying to create a healthy life after divorce. He would use the kids to manipulate his ex wife and would turn against any child who took her side.

How much do his kids know about his affair? Do they realize that their dad was wrong or do they believe that every one is out to get them?

There is another brother close in age to JT. Where is he and why isn't he in the photo too? We don't see many photos of him which is strange because he is not a bad looking young man but he favors Beall more than Doug.

[mausi]

Where is the other son? He's so rarely featured I can't even remember his name...

[lilith]

Is it against TOUs to post private instagram photos here? Doug's is private.

It wasn't when I followed it. I'll check and edit if necessary

[lilith]

It wasn't when I followed it. I'll check and edit if necessary

Just checked, he's not private. #douglaswinston to find him

[debrand]

Where is the other son? He's so rarely featured I can't even remember his name...

I think that his name is Liberty but some of the Philips kids have nongender specific names so I am not certain if he is Liberty or Justice.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20934&start=840

In 2010 the old board listed their ages as

1) How many kids do Doug and Beall have? Their names and approximate ages are: Joshua Titus (17), Justice (16), Liberty (15), Jubilee (13), Faith Evangeline (10), Honor (7), Providence (5), and Virginia Hope (3).

Doug favors Joshua Titus and Virginia as photographic subjects.

[nokidsmom]

I can't imagine what it must be like to belong to that family. IF Beall left would her kids refuse to go also? I wouldn't put it past Doug to force his kids to pick a side instead of trying to create a healthy life after divorce. He would use the kids to manipulate his ex wife and would turn against any child who took her side.

How much do his kids know about his affair? Do they realize that their dad was wrong or do they believe that every one is out to get them?

I can't see him working out any amicable post-divorce arrangement for the sake of the kids. More likely he would try to alienate them from their mom or or even threaten to use his legal background to try and take them away.

I don't know about the younger ones, I imagine that they might be effectively protected from the reasons behind their dad's fall but I gotta wonder about the older ones. They really can't avoid it hearing about things no matter how it's spun by their dad. Or mom. Unless Doug and Beall have seriously circled the wagons and the kids have no contact with any VF friends or peers that they associated with before.

[formergothardite]

Wow, Dougie's son looks just like him. I never noticed until now.

[zandria]

I can't see him working out any amicable post-divorce arrangement for the sake of the kids. More likely he would try to alienate them from their mom or or even threaten to use his legal background to try and take them away.

I wish had saved the bookmarks, but I haven't. In the past, Doug has taught that fathers should receive full custody of their children in the event of a divorce. This was way back when, before VF started revising some of their wackier tenets of Biblical Patriarchy, presumably to attract a more mainstream audience. He believed then (and probably still does) that God uses women to give children to fathers. Everyone in the family unit is there solely to serve the father's vision. Mothers have no inherent right to contact with their children in his ideology.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I don't see any results for #douglaswinston

[Kate]

I think that his name is Liberty but some of the Philips kids have nongender specific names so I am not certain if he is Liberty or Justice.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20934&start=840

In 2010 the old board listed their ages as

Doug favors Joshua Titus and Virginia as photographic subjects.

The other son is Justice, as in "Justice in not in the picture for Doug Phillips (who is a tool)." :lol:

As for Beall, I still feel sorry for her. She's in a really tough spot, and if she's going around saying mean things about the young, pretty, woman whose body hasn't birthed 8 kids that her husband had an affair with, I really don't have it in my heart to blame her. I do believe Hero was a lured into this, but that doesn't really make it less of a betrayal of Beall and it has to hurt.

[Alcyone]

Years ago, when the kids were younger, there was a picture in the VF catalog of Justice wielding a sword to protect Liberty. DP told Justice that he was always supposed to defend his little sister and that this capsulized the abstract concept that justice always protects liberty. So there is a handy way to remember which one is which. :lol:

I wonder why Honor and Providence are not in the picture. Justice is about 20 so he could actually be off at work or something but the little boys are still young.

[gustava]

The other son is Justice, as in "Justice in not in the picture for Doug Phillips (who is a tool)." :lol:

As for Beall, I still feel sorry for her. She's in a really tough spot, and if she's going around saying mean things about the young, pretty, woman whose body hasn't birthed 8 kids that her husband had an affair with, I really don't have it in my heart to blame her. I do believe Hero was a lured into this, but that doesn't really make it less of a betrayal of Beall and it has to hurt.

It's interesting to me how few FJers have pointed out that DPIAT betrayed his wife, when there must be one or two FJers who've been betrayed by their husbands. Just guessin'

[Marian the Librarian]

So Liberty is now about 19 years old, Jubilee 17, and Faith 14. In other words, the same age range as Hero, when she was providing God knows how many hours of unpaid labor at Chez Phillips, and catching The Patriarch's eye.

Think about it, Dougie. :evil:

[Talitha Cumi]

Dougie posted this a few days ago. Looks like they're trying very hard to keep up appearances.

[attachment=0]ImageUploadedByTapatalk1396154583.113853.jpg[/attachment]

JTitsUp is an asshole, but goddamn he's good-looking.

[MamaJunebug]

Meh - too plasticky.

JTitsUp is an asshole, but goddamn he's good-looking.

[Marian the Librarian]

"On October 29, five men went to Doug Phillips’ home to confront him. These were: former Vision Forum associates/staffers Peter Bradrick and Jordan Muela, former Vision Forum assistant Bob Renaud, friend and pastor Joe Morecraft, and Doug’s old college friend Mark Weaver."

I want to know more about this guy. Never heard of him before.

From the Hampton Roads VA Daily Press, April 29, 1990:

Samantha Leigh Wessel and Mark Alan Weaver were married April 28 at First United Methodist Church in Newport News by the Rev. Zig Volskis.

The bride is the daughter of Mr. and Mrs. V. William Wessel of Newport News. She graduated from Warwick High School and The College of William and Mary.

The bridegroom is the son of Mr. and Mrs. Ronald E. Weaver of Richmond. He graduated from Manchester High School and The College of William and Mary. He is a consultant at Conservative Caucus in Vienna.

Colleen Finnell of Falls Church was maid of honor. Douglas Phillips of Vienna was best man. A reception was held at the Warwick Yacht and Country Club in Newport News. After a wedding trip, the couple will reside in Vienna.

From The Conservative Caucus website (conservativeusa.org/about):

Peter J. Thomas is the Chairman of TCC; read his biography. TCC was founded by Howard Phillips in 1974, and he was the Chairman of TCC from 1974 to 2011.

Board of Directors

Peter J. Thomas, Chairman

Marc Morano, Treasurer

Fred Peterson

Robert J. Renaud

Jon Utley

Mark A. Weaver

It's a small world after all...it's a small world after all... :whistle:

[debrand]

These are my guesses about life with Doug based on my childhood with an abusive, self centered mother.

Despite Beall's education, she has probably been broken down by Doug. My mom could tear apart my confidence without resorting to physical violence or even yelling. She stored up every sign of weakness or vulnerability on my part and knew when to bring them up to cause me maximum pain. If Doug is like my mom then he has spent many years destroying Beall's confidence. She probably would have a hard time leaving him now.

I can't judge Beall and I feel sorry for her even though it frustrates me that she is still with Doug. Her anger at Hero is misplaced but it is understandable.

Thankfully, Hero has a support system. I am not certain who Beall would go to for help. Isn't she estranged from her family? It isn't as if she would come alone to a family member's home. She has eight children and not everyone is willing to allow so many kids into their home

[freehannie]

As reprehensible Beall's behavior is (if the reports are true), to me it fits with the ideology that Vision Forum was selling. There are women who behave modestly and are treasured and become wives and then there are women who do not and tempt men into sin. Men don't have the responsibility for controlling themselves in the face of such trollops. Therefore, it must be Hero's fault. (In Doug's version of Christianity) Otherwise, it's Beall's fault for not properly taking care of him. But since we know she carried a cell phone at all times just in case he needed a cup of coffee or something, that can't be the case. If Beall has to choose between blaming herself and blaming Hero, the choice is easy. I'm sure Doug was quick to put the blame on Beall when he was with Hero and had plenty of tales of how she wasn't a good wife and that's why he was straying.

I am very curious about what the kids think and what they know. I would pay some serious money for a behind the scenes expose from one of them or from Beall if she ever steps away from the dark side.

[debrand]

As reprehensible Beall's behavior is (if the reports are true), to me it fits with the ideology that Vision Forum was selling. There are women who behave modestly and are treasured and become wives and then there are women who do not and tempt men into sin. Men don't have the responsibility for controlling themselves in the face of such trollops. Therefore, it must be Hero's fault. (In Doug's version of Christianity) Otherwise, it's Beall's fault for not properly taking care of him. But since we know she carried a cell phone at all times just in case he needed a cup of coffee or something, that can't be the case. If Beall has to choose between blaming herself and blaming Hero, the choice is easy. I'm sure Doug was quick to put the blame on Beall when he was with Hero and had plenty of tales of how she wasn't a good wife and that's why he was straying.

I am very curious about what the kids think and what they know. I would pay some serious money for a behind the scenes expose from one of them or from Beall if she ever steps away from the dark side.

According to Voddie Bauchmam, it is also the daughter's fault if her dad strays.

“A lot of men are leaving their wives for younger women because they yearn for attention from younger women. And God gave them a daughter who can give them that.

rethinkingvisionforum.org/2011/08/14/voddie-baucham-on-fathers-and-daughters/

According to their theology, Beall can blame herself, her daughters or the other woman but under no condition can she blame the adult male who knowingly manipulated everyone around him.

[fuglyexfundy]

I feel more sorry for Beall than Hero. I know this is not a popular opinion, but people keep insisting that Hero wasn't groomed before age 18. Hero was caught or suspected of being with Doug or Vice Versa since Virginia(2007) was at least a baby. Only in 2012 was it finally over. Sheltered home school daughter or not, it doesn't pass the smell test. Immigrants or not, I view her parents with suspicion too. Did this "victim" know about the Ten Commandments...what about all that harping on about purity and saving your heart? She and Doug did this because they wanted to.

Let's be honest for a second. Few will speak warmly of their husband's other woman (not a minor), especially if she pretends to be friends or smiles in the faces of the kids...acts a nanny....sings songs with them...only to get it together with their dad. It will probably take some time for Beall to be financially or mentally ready to separate from Doug if she wants to do so. Regardless of education level, religious brainwashing and dogma can be a mental prison. I won't judge her.

The kids, including JTitsUp, gets the lionshare of my sympathy in this situation, however. Sorry, I don't buy that Hero was a total victim. Just can't. Regardless of Texas law, especially when you think about JA's timeline or Jen's. She was caught and still didn't stop initially. Knew the guy was married and knew what the 10 Commandments were. She cared for little Virginia in those videos. Nope. Sorry. Disagree with most of you. That and the journalists that write about this story are under no obligation to protect Hero's identity.

[hoipolloi]

I feel more sorry for Beall than Hero. I know this is not a popular opinion, but people keep insisting that Hero wasn't groomed before age 18. Hero was caught or suspected of being with Doug or Vice Versa since Virginia(2007) was at least a baby. Only in 2012 was it finally over. Sheltered home school daughter or not, it doesn't pass the smell test. Immigrants or not, I view her parents with suspicion too. Did this "victim" know about the Ten Commandments...what about all that harping on about purity and saving your heart? She and Doug did this because they wanted to.

Let's be honest for a second. Few will speak warmly of their husband's other woman (not a minor), especially if she pretends to be friends or smiles in the faces of the kids...acts a nanny....sings songs with them...only to get it together with their dad. It will probably take some time for Beall to be financially or mentally ready to separate from Doug if she wants to do so. Regardless of education level, religious brainwashing and dogma can be a mental prison. I won't judge her.

The kids, including JTitsUp, gets the lionshare of my sympathy in this situation, however. Sorry, I don't buy that Hero was a total victim. Just can't. Regardless of Texas law, especially when you think about JA's timeline or Jen's. She was caught and still didn't stop initially. Knew the guy was married and knew what the 10 Commandments were. She cared for little Virginia in those videos. Nope. Sorry. Disagree with most of you. That and the journalists that write about this story are under no obligation to protect Hero's identity.

Sounds like you're not quite an EX-fundy - only surprised you didn't call Hero a "Jezebel."

Again, to recap JA's cogent remarks on Hero (emphasis added):

This relationship was not consensual and cannot be considered consensual by the fact that Doug Phillips was in a position of authority. It doesn’t matter whether Victim received pleasure in her sexual encounters with Doug Phillips. It doesn’t matter if she may have flirted with him (I’m speculating.) The basis of this relationship can only be interpreted as abusive because of Doug Phillips’ position of authority in her life. Doug Phillips used his position of power and trust to control and gain access to a naive young woman, and he used her for his benefit for many years while hiding under the public guise of promoting family values. It is important to not shift blame onto the victim. Doug Phillips, because of his position of authority, is the perpetrator here, period.

FWIW, I consider Beall to be Doug's victim here as well. While her husband's abuse (because that's what it was) doesn't justify Beall's alleged treatment of Hero then or now, within the context of the madness that was/is VF, it's hard to see what other choices Beall has or had unless she was willing to risk destitution and/or being cut off from her children. Doug cut her off long ago from her parents & any other family, no one else in their cult would lift a finger to help her (most especially other patri-arses, whatever they think of DPIAT's behavior), and she probably doesn't even have the basics for making her own way, including credit, income, savings, etc.

Who are the biggest victims? The kids, of course. While one can hope that the daughters will be allowed to have the choices their mother & their aunts (Doug's sisters) have had, it may be too late for the older boys who have been steeped in the toxic brew of VF patriarchy forever.

[Soulhuntress]

I feel for Beall and her kids. She has a mess and not a single friend, relative, church family member or peer who can say "you know thus is wrong. You deserve better" or similar things. Nobody who cares about Beall and the kids. Hope she builds friendships and reconnects with family.

[fuglyexfundy]

Sounds like you're not quite an EX-fundy - only surprised you didn't call Hero a "Jezebel."

Again, to recap JA's cogent remarks on Hero (emphasis added):

FWIW, I consider Beall to be Doug's victim here as well. While her husband's abuse (because that's what it was) doesn't justify Beall's alleged treatment of Hero then or now, within the context of the madness that was/is VF, it's hard to see what other choices Beall has or had unless she was willing to risk destitution and/or being cut off from her children. Doug cut her off long ago from her parents & any other family, no one else in their cult would lift a finger to help her (most especially other patri-arses, whatever they think of DPIAT's behavior), and she probably doesn't even have the basics for making her own way, including credit, income, savings, etc.

Who are the biggest victims? The kids, of course. While one can hope that the daughters will be allowed to have the choices their mother & their aunts (Doug's sisters) have had, it may be too late for the older boys who have been steeped in the toxic brew of VF patriarchy forever.

I completely disagree with JA's opinion here. Hero was not without agency. I came to my conclusion based on what was presented thus far, life experience, knowledge of fundamentalism, and observations on human behavior. Take the emotions out of it. Look at the timeline and you'll see that actions of Doug and Hero, especially in relation to the kids, are foul. I have no dog in this fight. As such, I will not bend to popular religious thought about keeping silent about Doug, nor brainlessly supporting an alleged adult victim. (An alleged victim who had enough intelligence to try and cover her tracks. Whether told to or not, hiding stuff implies knowledge of wrongdoing. )

That's the benefit of being an atheist. So I wouldn't call her a Jezebel. That doesn't fit. I read the story. I'd call her actions wrong. I hope she doesn't do something like this again. Time will tell. Doug is a snake and from my experience, probably beyond hope.

[debrand]

It isn't fair to blame any of his victims and that includes his wife, children and ex lover. Doug seems to be a manipulative man who does not care who he hurts as long as he gets his way. My only surprise is that more young women or men haven't come forward because I find it hard to believe that Hero was his first affair.

Remember this is a man who tried to climb into a woman's window. He sounds obsessive and selfish. That one incident took his behavior from just a man having an affair(bad enough) to stalker territory and that makes me worry for anyone who is involved with him.

The one thing that causes me to have a little less sympathy for Hero is that she wasn't repulsed when Doug told her that she would eventually be wife number two when Beall died. For lack of a more mature word, that just seems icky and would have terrified me in her place.

CnD said that Darnell felt that his efforts to win a wife was hampered by those in the church. Was Hero the potential object of Darnell's affection?

[lilith]

If Dougie had really taught Joshua Titus and Justice the "Christian doctrine of women and children first" and all the other crap he goes on with about protecting the poor helpless women, they, as adult men, would assist their mother in separating from her adulterous husband with dignity and give their sisters the option of removing themselves from a situation that must be devastating for them right now. They wouldn't be posing with their mother, putting on big false smiles so Doug can project an image of family unity.