Doug Phillips is a Tool and Vision Forum is Dead - Part 6

[ILoveJellybeans]

He didn't know her in the Biblical sense because he didn't pay her father a goat for her. Anything else was fair game for him.

[lemonhead]

I'm not surprised by the climbing through the window incident. Narcissists tend to be obsessed with their victims (i.e. narcissistic supply) and also have a strong sense of entitlement. Dougie believed he should have complete access to her at all times, and it probably never occurred to him that his behavior, if caught, would be considered inappropriate. In his mind, he owned her.

What a douchebag.

[Queen Of Hearts]

I really have to feel sorry for Beall. If Hero is seen as a victim due to the things taught in the fundy lifestyle, then the same should be said of Beall. Here she knew for years that her Tool of a husband was cheating with her trusted babysitter and there was little she could do about it. Divorce was not allowed in their messed up culture. Plus she had 8 kids to care for. And now it comes out that Tool was planning ahead for her demise. I sure hope in the few years since she became wise to Tool's actions she made his life a living hell... and I hope now she has wised up and leaves him and takes whatever resources he has squirreled away with her.

The thought of the Tool climbing through Hero's window would be comical, if it were not true. Tool looks so much like a little troll as it is, that the thought of him trying to hoist himself up into a window is funny. The sad thing is, I would bet money that this was not the first time he did that. I suspect this was a regular occurrence and likely just the first time he was caught. it is too bad Hero's family didn't actually fire off a shot and ping DP in his toolish behind.

[tropaka]

Is anyone else thinking that Tool wasn't really lining up Hero as his next wife, but simply just telling her this to keep her around? Pretty typical for a guy having an affair to tell the "other woman" that they would marry (of course, this is also a case of abuse).

[Queen Of Hearts]

Is anyone else thinking that Tool wasn't really lining up Hero as his next wife, but simply just telling her this to keep her around. Pretty typical for a guy having an affair to tell the "other woman" (of course, this is also a case of abuse).

In non-fundy this would be the equivalent of "My wife doesn't understand me. I am going to leave her... soon...."

[Flossie]

So Doug was getting a back-up in place for the early demise of Beall. This could have been either a) Doug just whispering sweet nothings to Hero b) As CND said, Beall was having medical issues that were serious enough for Doug to believe she would not live much longer (but perhaps pulling through in the end) or c) Doug had it in for Beall.

A seems to be the most likely, but B seems to be a possibility as well. Though if Beall was seriously ill, wouldn't his knowledge be more public?

Doug Phillips is a Tool would probably be diagnosed as a Narcissist if examend by a qualified professional. As such, he'd be capable of rewriting his family history to suit his wishes, and most likely thought the Beall would die. Then he could go through a public show of grief, followed by a period of sad acceptance of her death. Then he'd realize that Hero was sent from God to be his next wife. Everyone rejoice! Magical thinking is the real God of narcissists.

[DomWackTroll]

I think it is plausible that Beall's health may have been deteriorating with each successive childbirth. Slimy anaconda that he is, DP may have been anticipating the possibility of Beall becoming a birthing martyr, as those true women of old he admires so much sometimes did.

It would have been like Michael Billings x 1 million. "My beloved bride, Beall, gave her life for our godly seed-- but alas, I must accept it! Hard as it may be, it is my duty to continue my 200-year-plan with a new wife half my age. Please pray for us as we continue to live out this vision for God's covenant people."

[Othello]

As such, he'd be capable of rewriting his family history to suit his wishes, and most likely thought the Beall would die. Then he could go through a public show of grief, followed by a period of sad acceptance of her death. Then he'd realize that Hero was sent from God to be his next wife. Everyone rejoice!

All in the 200–year–plan folks, it's all in the 200–year–plan.

Edit: It appears DomWack and I thought the same thing at the same time!

[nokidsmom]

I can't help not laughing at Doug climbing in a window like a teenage boy and then getting chased down the street with angry family carrying firearms.

I have to admit I find the idea of Dougie doing this pretty laughable too. OTOH, it really exposes how pathetic he is. A grown man, married, father of 8 and a leader within his church doing something so....teenage? Beall's probably got a lot on her plate emotionally as it is, but knowing her husband behaved like a juvenile? Ugh.

Regarding Beall, I do think it's plausible that her health could have been adversely affected by birthing so many kids as Aretejo has pointed out. However, if she was in a health situation where her survival was questionable, I would think there would have been something said about it, even if it was in vague terms and asking for prayers. Even as Dougie was carrying on with Hero, I wouldn't put it past him to still talk openly about any health challenges she was facing and getting sympathy and support for it.

No, I suspect what Dougie told Hero as far as becoming his wife was a bunch of sweet nothings meant to keep her on the hook. Even if in the event of Beall's untimely demise, would he have even been trusted to follow through? Even so, Beall's has got to be furious just knowing he told Hero something like that, whether he meant it or not, on top of everything else.

Beall may have had to turn a blind eye for many reasons (stuck in marriage, nice lifestyle, unable to support 8 kids, estranged from her family) but at this point she really needs to kick his sorry ass big time. I hope she can mend things with her family and get some support.

[Joan of Snarc]

Least surprising news ever: Dougie really does view himself as some romantic, swashbuckling hero full of derring-do, all the while making up rules that apply to his followers, but not him.

:roll:

Most comical picture ever: Diminutive Dougie being chased down the street by shotgun-wielding fundie followers, cover blown.

:lol:

He really was the leading man, starring in his own production in his own head, complete with multiple costume changes. And more cellos! Always more cellos! And shotguns, maybe....

Being an internet voyeur into these peoples' lives is just so goddamn entertaining. If I wrote this as fiction, it would come off as unbelievable and cliched.

8-)

[nausicaa]

I have to admit I find the idea of Dougie doing this pretty laughable too. OTOH, it really exposes how pathetic he is. A grown man, married, father of 8 and a leader within his church doing something so....teenage? Beall's probably got a lot on her plate emotionally as it is, but knowing her husband behaved like a juvenile? Ugh.

Regarding Beall, I do think it's plausible that her health could have been adversely affected by birthing so many kids as Aretejo has pointed out. However, if she was in a health situation where her survival was questionable, I would think there would have been something said about it, even if it was in vague terms and asking for prayers. Even as Dougie was carrying on with Hero, I wouldn't put it past him to still talk openly about any health challenges she was facing and getting sympathy and support for it.

No, I suspect what Dougie told Hero as far as becoming his wife was a bunch of sweet nothings meant to keep her on the hook. Even if in the event of Beall's untimely demise, would he have even been trusted to follow through? Even so, Beall's has got to be furious just knowing he told Hero something like that, whether he meant it or not, on top of everything else.

Beall may have had to turn a blind eye for many reasons (stuck in marriage, nice lifestyle, unable to support 8 kids, estranged from her family) but at this point she really needs to kick his sorry ass big time. I hope she can mend things with her family and get some support.

I know Beall is not the most sympathetic character on this board, but I can't imagine finding out that your husband was flippantly (perhaps even hopefully?) discussing your untimely demise with a young woman to assure her that she could take over as his wife (and step-mother to your young children). That is so cold. If I were in that situation I think that would hurt me more than the sex/non-sex/whatever the hell Doug is labeling his rumpy-pumpy as. It will be interesting to see what steps Beall takes next.

[nokidsmom]

Least surprising news ever: Dougie really does view himself as some romantic, swashbuckling hero full of derring-do, all the while making up rules that apply to his followers, but not him.

Yes, he's the man, dontcha know.

Being an internet voyeur into these peoples' lives is just so goddamn entertaining. If I wrote this as fiction, it would come off as unbelievable and cliched.

I know. I mention a number of the stories I read here with Mr. No and sometimes he looks at me as if I am making this stuff up. Dougie and the Pecan Thief are the best ones.

[Talitha Cumi]

I'd love for some of our lawyers to weigh in here.

Questions for our legal eagles:

1. Looking at the World article reporting on Dougie's threatening letter of March 13: What grounds (not including insanity/narcissistic rage) does DPiaT have to sue Bradrick, Muela, and Renaud. Defamation ( :lol: don't make me laugh, because it's the truth and Doug confessed.) WTF is "conspiracy" to bring down VF, DP, and family -- what crime has been committed in exposing an illicit relationship between a "Pastor" and a vulnerable lamb in his flock?

As people have said, truth is an absolute defense to defamation. No case here. Conspiracy, legally, means conspiracy to commit an illegal act. Assuming he's viewing defamation as the illegal act, again, there's no case. "They said something about me I didn't like" is not a valid legal claim. :lol:

2 and 3 I don't know, but I have a theory about 4...

4. On mediation, The Peacemaker people sound like bad news, but why in the name of doG would Hero, Bradrick and Co., or the BoD of VFM have any incentive to go to mediation? Would there be any advantage in court?

The advantage to mediation would be to keep it out of the court. And the only incentive anyone who wasn't on the Tool's side would have would be to refrain from suing a fellow believer. Which at this point, if Toolio really thought that was going to be a consideration with them, he was deluding himself. (Which he does, so not really surprising.) He's so used to being able to intimidate people with threats of legal action that he can't adjust to the fact that they'll stand up to him.

[nokidsmom]

I know Beall is not the most sympathetic character on this board, but I can't imagine finding out that your husband was flippantly (perhaps even hopefully?) discussing your untimely demise with a young woman to assure her that she could take over as his wife (and step-mother to your young children). That is so cold. If I were in that situation I think that would hurt me more than the sex/non-sex/whatever the hell Doug is labeling his rumpy-pumpy as. It will be interesting to see what steps Beall takes next.

Re: the bolded, exactly what I was thinking. Whether or Dougie really meant what he said he said in that discussion, and frankly I have my doubts that he did mean it, it's still got to hurt that it was discussed at all. So it goes beyond just the relationship and all it's activities, whatever they were, though that hurts enough. It's that your own husband actually discussed your untimely demise with his paramour and at least pretended to have a plan.

I know Beall hasn't garnered a lot of sympathy in the past and I have refrained from discussing her as I am torn between her being stuck in her role as wife to this cheating idiot and all the pain she's got to be going through and at the same time, she has actively participated and peddled the same nonsense as her husband, so I am not sure that she's the helpless, dependent helpmeet either. But now, I really hope she can dump this guy and move on to a happier life. She's going to need support though. Lots of it.

[whackadoodle]

Hi all,

Fairly new poster here. Anyways, I will offer my opinion on why someone in the VF culture may not have talked about Beall being physically unwell. The whole backbone of Vision Forum was a front: perfect family; smiling and perfectly coiffed children; happy, radiant wife; virile man able to do a perfect manly stance. Right? Well, what happens to a woman and her body after so many children? Many times the woman's body pays for all the pregnancy, birthing and breastfeeding. It takes its toll. (I know this first hand!) What more to ruin that front for VF than a broken-down, ill wife whose problems were caused by maintaining that quiverfull?

Of course, surely DP could have blamed Beall's illness (which, speculation as it is, wouldn't surprise me one bit) on any number of things, but it is fairly certain that any person with a decent IQ could put two and two together to see the real reason for a woman's physical problems.

Anyway, that is MHO only. ;-)

edited for misspelling

[nokidsmom]

Hi all,

Fairly new poster here. Anyways, I will offer my opinion on why someone in the VF culture may not have talked about Beall being physically unwell. The whole backbone of Vision Forum was a front: perfect family; smiling and perfectly coiffed children; happy, radiant wife; virile man able to do a perfect manly stance. Right? Well, what happens to a woman and her body after so many children? Many times the woman's body pays for all the pregnancy, birthing and breastfeeding. It takes its toll. (I know this first hand!) What more to ruin that front for VF than a broken-down, ill wife whose problems were caused by maintaining that quiverfull?

Of course, surely DP could have blamed Beall's illness (which, speculation as it is, wouldn't surprise me one bit) on any number of things, but it is fairly certain that any person with a decent IQ could put two and two together to see the real reason for a woman's physical problems.

Anyway, that is MHO ony. ;-)

You have a point about keeping any illness quiet as part of maintaining the approved VF facade. It's pretty plausible that Beall's health would be impacted by pregnancy, nursing whilst taking care of a growing family. And it would get more difficult with each successive pregnancy. I can see Dougie or anyone in VF not wanting to allude to the real state of her health if that were the case. At the same time, Dougie did have a way of making exceptions for himself so I wouldn't be surprised if he could have tried to spin anything going on with Beall's health in a way that wouldn't make him or his family look "lesser" in VF eyes because he was the leader. And by virtue of being the leader, anything he does or happens with him or family is OK even if it's not for anyone else.

I guess I am saying that I can see it going either way.

[dawbs]

You have a point about keeping any illness quiet as part of maintaining the approved VF facade. It's pretty plausible that Beall's health would be impacted by pregnancy, nursing whilst taking care of a growing family. And it would get more difficult with each successive pregnancy. I can see Dougie or anyone in VF not wanting to allude to the real state of her health if that were the case. At the same time, Dougie did have a way of making exceptions for himself so I wouldn't be surprised if he could have tried to spin anything going on with Beall's health in a way that wouldn't make him or his family look "lesser" in VF eyes because he was the leader. And by virtue of being the leader, anything he does or happens with him or family is OK even if it's not for anyone else.

I guess I am saying that I can see it going either way.

There's also still the Calvanist 'conduit' theory that illness is a sign of sin.

Can't admit anything other than perfection, that implies you sinned!

[bumblebee]

Is anyone else thinking that Tool wasn't really lining up Hero as his next wife, but simply just telling her this to keep her around? Pretty typical for a guy having an affair to tell the "other woman" that they would marry (of course, this is also a case of abuse).

Yeah I think reports of Beall's illness/ theoretical demise might be being highly exaggerated from this. It pretty much sounds like the equivalent of "when I leave my wife". And yeah, whether he meant it or not, that's got to be one of the most gut punching things about it if she's reading or heard any of this.

[Palimpsest]

As people have said, truth is an absolute defense to defamation. No case here. Conspiracy, legally, means conspiracy to commit an illegal act. Assuming he's viewing defamation as the illegal act, again, there's no case. "They said something about me I didn't like" is not a valid legal claim. :lol:

Oh yes! I'm one of the people who have been pointing out that he has no case for defamation because the truth is a trump card. I just can't think how even in Doug's twisted brain the "conspiracy" is defamation here. What skeleton's could he be referring to instead?

[Letgo]

Is anyone else thinking that Tool wasn't really lining up Hero as his next wife, but simply just telling her this to keep her around? Pretty typical for a guy having an affair to tell the "other woman" that they would marry (of course, this is also a case of abuse).

I totally think this is what he was doing. He would almost certainly have to tell her something to get her to continue with this for years. She probably did have doubts that she expressed to him from time to time and this was one of his manipulative answers.

This book has been mentioned before but I'll recommend it again-The Witness Wore Red: The 19th Wife Who Brought Polygamous Cult Leaders to Justice. The effect that years of isolation and conditioning has on people is astounding. The women (and men, really) of the FLDS gave up themselves to the cult leaders in every way possible. Reading it helps me now understand Hero. And Beall.

[Palimpsest]

Just an FYI.

Beall's supposed ill-health just seems to be an unfounded rumor based on Doug's (alleged) statement to Hero that Beall would die early. Over on SSB a couple of people are saying that there is nothing wrong with Beall's health, and Julie Anne concurs.

I don't know what to make of Beall. I wish she'd dump Doug's butt after getting all his remaining assets, but I'm not optimistic about that.

[nokidsmom]

Yeah I think reports of Beall's illness/ theoretical demise might be being highly exaggerated from this. It pretty much sounds like the equivalent of "when I leave my wife". And yeah, whether he meant it or not, that's got to be one of the most gut punching things about it if she's reading or heard any of this.

Yeah, most of us know that that the whole "when I leave my wife, I will....." is one of the oldest tricks in the book. And being that he can't, according to VF rules anyway, divorce his wife, therefore the only way he can work this particular one is promising things in the case of his wife's death. And maybe play up the whole "my wife isn't a well woman" (whether true or not) to further the whole deception lest Hero realize that Beall's not going anywhere, certainly not the great beyond.

[ILoveJellybeans]

He didn't really mean he would marry Hero. Narcissists lie to people a lot, and will say all sorts of things to keep you around to use until theyre done with you and can throw you away like youre the bad guy. Both Hero and Beall are just toys to him, someone he can use for sex and have worship him.

[congusto]

Jen has a new DPIAT post up. TW appears in the comment section with this:

The reason Doug Phillips had his attorney send threatening letters to Peter Bradrick, Bob Renaud and Jordan Muela is because they know where the bodies are buried, and that worries Doug Phillips greatly. Joe Morecraft and Mark Weaver are not in the know.

Jen also pipes in with regard to Beall:

Although I have had very little interaction with Beall in the last nine years, when I knew her during our time at BCA, she would bend over backward to support her husband in everything he said and did. Did she ever question him privately? If so, she would have been sinning (according to her). so she has brainwashed her own self into blindly following her husband no matter what. They also believe that ALL divorce is sin, so that is not an option either. Does she consider how her husband’s actions influence her children? Absolutely. But not in the way you are thinking. No, even though he committed adultery against her, I am certain that she still fully believes that he has brought his children up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord and that we are all their enemies. Nothing could be further from the truth, unfortunately. At this point, she is in some serious emotional bondage that she has no interest in letting go.

Despite the sources, :? it sounds plausible to me....

**sorry about the walls o'words in the quotes, but I know some don't like to click over there. Mods, please edit as you wish if it's too much.

[Evil Feminist]

The reason Doug Phillips had his attorney send threatening letters to Peter Bradrick, Bob Renaud and Jordan Muela is because they know where the bodies are buried, and that worries Doug Phillips greatly. Joe Morecraft and Mark Weaver are not in the know.

What 'bodies'?