Duggars, Duggars Everywhere - general discussion Part 4

[doubleT]

Jana really looks beaten down to me. Sad, depressed, non motivated ... not sure what to do.

As the second oldest and the first girl, I wish she had found a passion like Jill did and acted upon it.

Now I think she is stuck in a "no man's land". No job to go to, no where to turn .. stuck at home.

Maybe she is getting to know a young man, but we won't know until they are officially courting.

I hope I am wrong about all the above. I hope she is really happy and enjoys doing whatever it is that she does every day. I'd really like to see her happy and enjoying a life of her own.

[floridiot]

Jana really looks beaten down to me. Sad, depressed, non motivated ... not sure what to do.

As the second oldest and the first girl, I wish she had found a passion like Jill did and acted upon it.

Now I think she is stuck in a "no man's land". No job to go to, no where to turn .. stuck at home.

Maybe she is getting to know a young man, but we won't know until they are officially courting.

I hope I am wrong about all the above. I hope she is really happy and enjoys doing whatever it is that she does every day. I'd really like to see her happy and enjoying a life of her own.

This. It makes me really worried if Got Hard has shown Jana some special attention at one of her many JTTH's. She is his "type", after all. her demeanor could be the result of either shame for something that she feels she did to cause it OR anger that it happened and she is feeling disillusioned with the whole system (coupled with the likeliness that her parents would've brushed it aside and suggested she was a liar). I hope and pray not but I can't help but wonder.

I also can't help but wonder what recourse she would take if she decided one day she was done bull-shitting it and wanted out. Call Amy or her aunt and ask of she could crash with them for a while? She likely has no friends outside of ATI that she could turn to. Does anyone hold out hope that Amy or her Mom would take the wrath of JB if they decided to help a fleeing Duggar child?

[nellautumngirl]

This. It makes me really worried if Got Hard has shown Jana some special attention at one of her many JTTH's. She is his "type", after all. her demeanor could be the result of either shame for something that she feels she did to cause it OR anger that it happened and she is feeling disillusioned with the whole system (coupled with the likeliness that her parents would've brushed it aside and suggested she was a liar). I hope and pray not but I can't help but wonder.

I also can't help but wonder what recourse she would take if she decided one day she was done bull-shitting it and wanted out. Call Amy or her aunt and ask of she could crash with them for a while? She likely has no friends outside of ATI that she could turn to. Does anyone hold out hope that Amy or her Mom would take the wrath of JB if they decided to help a fleeing Duggar child?

I think anger is definitely an emotion she feels/has felt in the past. I don't know what or who she's angry with, maybe just herself for not praying these thoughts away, but if you just look at her expression in some photos, there's resentment. The raised eyebrows, the smile, the muscles.

[Coconut Flan]

I'm sorry but I don't see it. I can't begin to read resentment into those photos. I might detect resentment from what someone says or does but the photos devoid of context aren't doing it for me.

[Rescinded and Mended]

This. It makes me really worried if Got Hard has shown Jana some special attention at one of her many JTTH's. She is his "type", after all. her demeanor could be the result of either shame for something that she feels she did to cause it OR anger that it happened and she is feeling disillusioned with the whole system (coupled with the likeliness that her parents would've brushed it aside and suggested she was a liar). I hope and pray not but I can't help but wonder.

I also can't help but wonder what recourse she would take if she decided one day she was done bull-shitting it and wanted out. Call Amy or her aunt and ask of she could crash with them for a while? She likely has no friends outside of ATI that she could turn to. Does anyone hold out hope that Amy or her Mom would take the wrath of JB if they decided to help a fleeing Duggar child?

It's no secret that Amy has always wanted to be famous via a singing career, and up to this point has always made her attempts at it by riding the coattails of her famous aunt and uncle. But I always thought that if some horrible scandal rocked the Duggar family, something involving the fall of Gothard or a sex scandal, she would gladly play the part of the rat escaping the sinking ship and have a Duggarling or two in tow to show the world how supportive she is of her cousins in a time of crisis.

I don't doubt for a moment that Amy genuinely loves her cousins, but I also don't think she would ever help any of them get out unless there was something in it for her, like headlines or a book deal.

[MamaJunebug]

(Snipped for brevity)

Either way it sucks to be in an oppressive situation and controlled by fear. I feel for them and was not trying to make light of their situation. SORRY

FWIW, it didn't offend me nor did I think you were making light of the sitch -- I thought you were just engaging in some ironic speculation about how the Nike rule could go wrong (in Jim Bob's mind, anyway). I don't get out much anymore, but I know three very devout Christian gay men, who thankfully found churches that accepted them as fellow believers. The Duggers and other extremists really don't realize how they are jeopardizing the souls of roughly 10% of the population by their insistence that a certain way of being is damnable. I'm a hopeless optimist, and I really hope that they figure it out sooner than later.

ETA - I don't think it's within policy to speculate here on any kid's sexual orientation, even if they are above the age of majority. Just the rules as I understand them, you might want to check with the mods.

[Toothfairy]

I highly doubt what they are refering to is full on sexual awareness. The fundie view of sexuality is that women are dainty delicate flowers whose petals are bruised through ungodly sexual interactions, whose hearts fall apart in pieces over heartbreak. A fundie gal thinking of boys is likely desiring to fully hug, hold hands, enjoy chaste kisses, and while I'm sure the thought of having a sexual experience has crossed their minds it is likely plagued by fear, a sense of duty, very little accurate information, and I'm sure a focus on procreation rather than the sexual fulfillment of a woman. They arent having dirty fantasies about men, more dreams of being emotionally intimate with another person.

Men on the other hand are shallow physical beings. Their sexualities are like irreversible switches, if a man is turned on he will be so overcone with desire that he will have difficulty resisting, and if he can avoid touching he will undoubtedly not be able to resist having dirty sexual fantasies about them. So its best if the fairer sex avoid being temptresses to begin with. A guys sexuality isnt emotional, its a purely physical pleasure.

While fundies take it to the extreme the same logic is the route of mainstream rape culture, they arent unique in their ignorance of human sexuality. Most of society is right there with them.

Yes because men cannot control themselves.

[Toothfairy]

Cosmopolitan reviews the book - specifically, the "Nike" thing: http://www.cosmopolitan.com/celebrity/n ... ook-quotes

"Like Arkansas' very own morality police, they're also on the look out for ladies (perhaps words like "jezebel" and "harlot" were edited out in early drafts) who aren't subscribing to a similar dress code. Sure, they don't arrest people, but the family have a special code word for these provocative women, which is "Nike." Really, there's a code word:

"That’s a signal to the boys, and even to Dad, that they should nonchalantly drop their eyes and look down at their shoes as we walk past her... It’s meant to help keep the guys’ eyes from seeing things they shouldn’t be seeing. By using the single-word signal, the warning can be given quietly and discreetly."

:o you can't be serious :angry-banghead: so men are so overcome by lust that they can't control themselves. The real world doesn't work like that Duggars

[Toothfairy]

Jana is a very pretty girl(woman is not a term I would use) As a person who drunk some of the Duggar/fundie koolaid and did grow up in a religious home, I think she is sad and has resentment towards her parents. She's not allow to show her emotions and is to be seen and not heard. From the looks of it she seems very shy and sweet and wants to please her parents. I think growing up she got the bulk of responsibilities because she is the oldest girl and probably been raising kids all her young life. It has to be taking a toll on her. Now with the filming of the show she's seeing things and might be realizing how much of a world is out there outside her little box. I do feel sorry for her because all JB and Michele does is send her to gothard every time she might show some resentment or bad feelings. I would love to see her get away and live how she wants to live. She might think the only way out is through marriage and having a bunch of kids. She might not want that for herself. I would pay to see JB and Michele on a Dr.Phil episode since they love attention.

[nellautumngirl]

I'm sorry but I don't see it. I can't begin to read resentment into those photos. I might detect resentment from what someone says or does but the photos devoid of context aren't doing it for me.

No need to apologize, obviously there's no way to know for sure, but I see anger, contempt and even a hint of aggression in the third photo. I know they're trained to smile wether they feel like it or not, but ususally Jana's smiles at best look convincing and at worst a bit sad. Not here imo

[16strong]

Jana always looks like to me a girl who is in perpetual mourning. I don't know if that makes sense, and mourning what, I don't know, but possibly the childhood she wanted, but didn't get? The life she wants to lead, but never can have? I get the sense she's a huge dreamer, but is too nice and meek to ever rock the boat.

[bal maiden]

I've never seen it before, but in this picture Jana looks SO much like JimBoob. I've always thought Jinger looks like J'Uterus, but didn't think the other kids look like JB, until now.

[Alachantal]

Jana always looks like to me a girl who is in perpetual mourning. I don't know if that makes sense, and mourning what, I don't know, but possibly the childhood she wanted, but didn't get? The life she wants to lead, but never can have? I get the sense she's a huge dreamer, but is too nice and meek to ever rock the boat.

I get the same sort of feeling. It's like she never got a childhood (which, admittedly, she probably didn't) and she's lost and searching for something. I wish there was something that she could find to make her happy, but it's hard for me to even picture an acceptable hobby for someone so quiet, especially with no alone time allowed.

[jaynie]

Every time I see Jana now, I think - "There's a little Johannah trapped somewhere in there, struggling to get out." The fact that Michelle alleges that the two were alike as children upsets me. It's another thing entirely from a naturally shy and unassuming fundie gal looking sad, because there is the implication of deep repression. It also makes me fear for Hannie (and Joy), although I think their different circumstances make them slightly less vulnerable.

Here's hoping the spirited little girl Jana once was fights her way back to the surface someday soon.

[thepinkleprechaun]

Do you guys think that any of the girls will marry boys who are similarly disillusioned with the lifestyle and end up regressing toward the mean?

[VixenToast]

Do you guys think that any of the girls will marry boys who are similarly disillusioned with the lifestyle and end up regressing toward the mean?

It is something I fervently hope for. But if they don't pass the fanatical litmus test (which it appears Ben has) they won't get any shot of marrying into Duggarland. Ergo, SAHD or SAHM is likely their options.

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

I get the same sort of feeling. It's like she never got a childhood (which, admittedly, she probably didn't) and she's lost and searching for something. I wish there was something that she could find to make her happy, but it's hard for me to even picture an acceptable hobby for someone so quiet, especially with no alone time allowed.

I couldn't agree more. Jana's mouth is smiling, but her eyes look sad. I remember being depressed as a teen/young adult, and hating it when family members or other people pointed a camera at me and demanded that I smile. Jana is constantly on camera, whether it be family appearances or the show. I doubt she ever had a say about being in the public eye. She is not only expected to be the responsible eldest daughter/head J'Slave, but also to be an example to other young women. She must be under an immense amount of pressure, and likely never gets to express how she truly feels without the Biblical guilt trips.

I wish Jana could go and find what makes her truly happy. Chances are if this were to happen, her smile in photos would look completely different.

[Mama Mia]

No need to apologize, obviously there's no way to know for sure, but I see anger, contempt and even a hint of aggression in the third photo. I know they're trained to smile wether they feel like it or not, but ususally Jana's smiles at best look convincing and at worst a bit sad. Not here imo

I am very, very glad I was never put in the public eye for the minutest bit of every facial expression to be analyzed.

[nellautumngirl]

I am very, very glad I was never put in the public eye for the minutest bit of every facial expression to be analyzed.

It's not likely she will ever see it and I don't care if her parents see it, how could they make her life worse at this point.

[lizziesmom]

I've never seen it before, but in this picture Jana looks SO much like JimBoob. I've always thought Jinger looks like J'Uterus, but didn't think the other kids look like JB, until now.

Don't insult Jana like that. Isn't it bad enough that as the oldest daughter she's had to raise 17 siblings?

[Mama Mia]

It's not likely she will ever see it and I don't care if her parents see it, how could they make her life worse at this point.

That wasn't my point. In most photos I see of myself I am sure someone could read something into them....I'm not smiling enough ( I must be depressed!), I'm squinting ( must be angry!) my arms are crossed ( omg, I must be distant/repressed/resentful) and on and on. And I only have an occasional photo taken at family gatherings. I can't imagine if I was caught on film all the time! Yes I'd probably be more conscious of my facial expressions and posture, but I'm sure people would still read something into every single muscle movement. If my arms are crossed its because it's more comfortable, if I'm squinting it's because the light is in my eyes or I'm thinking of something else. If I'm not smiling it's because I happen to not be smiling.

[nellautumngirl]

That wasn't my point. In most photos I see of myself I am sure someone could read something into them....I'm not smiling enough ( I must be depressed!), I'm squinting ( must be angry!) my arms are crossed ( omg, I must be distant/repressed/resentful) and on and on. And I only have an occasional photo taken at family gatherings. I can't imagine if I was caught on film all the time! Yes I'd probably be more conscious of my facial expressions and posture, but I'm sure people would still read something into every single muscle movement. If my arms are crossed its because it's more comfortable, if I'm squinting it's because the light is in my eyes or I'm thinking of something else. If I'm not smiling it's because I happen to not be smiling.

I get what you're saying. I'm speculating, I'm not saying what I see is the absolute truth.

I'm not a photogenic person at all, but I also haven't been trained to smile in all situations since I was little. I think if smilling is the only accepted expression, other feelings will show through that as well. Again, just my opinion.

[LadyPriss]

Is that Josiah to the left of the guy with the jumbo arms? He looks thrilled. And it looks like he has only 15 days left (red carpet day/advancement is March 21st).

alertacademy.com/alert/wp-content/uploads/20140219-154058.jpg

[Handmaiden of Dog]

I am very, very glad I was never put in the public eye for the minutest bit of every facial expression to be analyzed.

But this is exactly why most people don't put their family on Reality TV shows. JB can talk about the "ministry" all he wants. The bottom line is he has sold his entire family to TLC and the public spotlight follows them where ever they go and whatever they do. He is a pimp and I hope his children come to know the truth about his harmful actions at some point.

[DuggarTime]

I think a lot of the Duggar girls LIKE being on Reality TV. And they like their family. Jana does not seem particularly scarred from her upbringing. In the episode where Jana and John-David went to Asia on a mission trip, Jana was practically crying because she would miss Michelle so much. If she really wanted to escape, she would have been happy to be away for 2 months.