Lori thinks it's okay to hit a 5 month old with a switch

[Koala]

Because according to her (in comments): " A little pain worked great for us!"

One of the biggest arguments against the Pearls that I hear is that they spanked their five month old daughter with a switch. The switch was the size of this twig I found in my backyard. {I put a quarter by it so you can better determine the size.} It is 12 inches long and 1/8th inches wide, the size the Pearls say they used. I tried hitting myself with it over and over again and could barely even feel it. Have you ever been beaten with a twig?

They used this twig to try and train their daughter to stop climbing up the stairs. They used only two swats on her upper leg which produces almost no pain. Yes, they could have put a barrier to stop her or continued to pull her down but they wanted to train her to understand what "no" meant from a very young age.

When our babies began crawling and wanted to put their fingers in a light socket, we would slap their hand and say "no!" They learned very quickly what "no" meant and that they were not suppose to touch light switches.

The Pearls and our sole purpose in training our babies was to protect them and learn obedience at a young age. Many parents immunize their children. They take them to the doctor and the doctor sticks sharp needles into their babies that hurt the babies. The babies cry and many times have a fever for a few days afterwards. They do this to protect their babies from future disease. Are these parents abusing their babies?

We cannot protect our children from pain. It is a part of life and many times pain is used to protect children in the future. The Pearls whole premise for their book To Train Up A Child is to train their children to grow up and become disciplined, productive adults who walk with Jesus.

Their children loved their childhood. Michael and Debi Pearl created a fun environment for them to grow up in. The children knew to obey their parents. Michael and Debi obeyed Scripture where it commands children to obey your parents in ALL things: for this is well-pleasing unto the Lord. {Colossians 3:20}

They teach parents to NEVER discipline in anger. They continually remind parents the purpose of raising children is to train them to obey them so when they grow up it will be easy to obey authority, namely God. If you want a happy, healthy household filled with obedient, happy children, I encourage you to read their book. You may not agree with everything they teach, but most of what they teach is very good and the fruit of their teaching is in the lives of many children who have grown up to be productive adults in society.

***HERE is Michael Pearls defense of his book which some in Britain are trying to ban.

I am becoming very concerned about Lori's fascination with spanking. If you don't believe Lori is obsessed with spanking, try scrolling through her old posts. TONS of posts on pain and spanking. In one of her posts she even refers to Debi Pearl "spanking her with her words" :wtf:

Praise the Lord there was someone out there who spanked me with her words and explained to me how ugly my behavior was and what true, biblical submission looked like.

On Sunshine Mary's blog she refers to Ken saying he would spank her. Something is very off with this woman. Very, very off.

[lilwriter85]

I just saw that posting awhile ago, it looks like it was spurred on because Britain is trying ban TTUAC. Lori defends the Pearls any time the media or others call out on the Pearls on their sick beliefs. I remember when she did that "Pray for Michael Pearl" blog after Anderson Cooper covered the Pearls.

[sparkles]

Because it can't be said enough...

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

Lori Alexander is a monster.

[docmom]

I tried hitting myself with it over and over again and could barely even feel it. Have you ever been beaten with a twig?

Why then, Lori, do you suppose it "works"? If the baby can hardly feel it, why do they stop the behavior? Of course it hurts, you monter. Michael Pearl is absolutely clear in his assertion that beating children should hurt them.

Lori does appear to have a spanking fetish, which is fine if it's between 2 consenting adults who each have the ability to stop it when they want. What Lori does is to impose her fetish on young children which is definitely not fine. And the vaccine analogy, I just can't...

[SpeakNow]

Why then, Lori, do you suppose it "works"? If the baby can hardly feel it, why do they stop the behavior? Of course it hurts, you monter. Michael Pearl is absolutely clear in his assertion that beating children should hurt them.

Lori does appear to have a spanking fetish, which is fine if it's between 2 consenting adults who each have the ability to stop it when they want. What Lori does is to impose her fetish on young children which is definitely not fine. And the vaccine analogy, I just can't...

Pain definitely does teach, but it is certainly not the only method. When I was younger I touched the hot stove and burned my hand. I immediately learned not to touch the hot stove. Yet, but the same token, I also learned not to stick my finger in an outlet not because I was spanked, not because I stuck my finger in it, but because my parents baby-proofed the outlets, and, when I was old enough to understand, explained to me why you shouldn't put your finger in the outlet. No spanking or pain required.

[2xx1xy1JD]

As a baby, my middle child would crawl into the cabinet under the bathroom sink, bump her head, crawl out, and then repeat the process 47 times.

She also tried jumping off the kitchen table, and bumped her head. It didn't stop her from jumping off another piece of furniture the next day.

Obviously, pain wasn't such a great teacher for her.

I'm sure that these methods do produce children who are obedient to authority. Does it occur to these people that unquestioning obedience and an inability to say no are not good things?

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nuremberg_defense

[guidedbybobafett]

Pain is not "a great deterrent" for a very young child, because they often can't remember what caused the pain! But what can you expect from an insane cult that believes infants are capable of actively manipulating their mothers by crying? More completely bonkers, unsupported, nightmarish nonsense.

[GeoBQn]

My parents spanked me and my brother one time. They immediately felt so horrible about it that they never did it again. We both somehow grew up to be respectful, productive, law-abiding people without being subject to violent punishments.

The part where she basically says that spanking is better for your children and less harmful than vaccines made me ill.

[Cora Persephona]

We cannot protect our children from pain

That doesn't mean we should be the ones to cause them pain.

[Emme]

if it sounds like a baby needs a safe word, it is NOT a parenting technique.

[Koala]

She posted the same thing on facebook. Here are some of the comments:

C:

Of the all the controversial items that have been brought forth regarding the Pearls' teachings, spanking infants (or striking them at all, with anything) is the least defensible. It is never OK to strike a baby, for any reason. I don't understand how this can be viewed as acceptable, not matter the circumstances.

Lori:

It is called training them. It is like smacking yourself with a pencil. No matter how hard you tried, it wouldn't really hurt. I didn't want my babies to bite me while I was nursing them, wiggle around while I changed their diaper, or putting things in electrical outlets. I couldn't reason with them about any of these things, you can't with a baby, but a little bit of pain solved every single problem almost immediately.

So which is it Lori? Does it cause pain or not?

From Ken:

Our children at six to twelve months were 10 times smarter than our three year old dog and cat, and all three of them were trained to control what they could control. It is not an adult issue to lay still and not squirm all over while your diaper is being changed. Ken

I hope the people at the nursing home you go to take note of this sentiment where you are concerned Ken...truly I do.

Lori and Ken Alexander and the land of contradiction:

The small amount of pain was always for a purpose, a good purpose since they are too young at that age to reason with.

Here she hits because they are too young to reason with.

I couldn't reason with them about any of these things, you can't with a baby, but a little bit of pain solved every single problem

Again, she hits because she can't reason with them.

But wait for it. They are about to become baby Einsteins when she needs to justify hitting them. Watch how fast it happens:

They understand. Mine sure did and a tiny bit of pain taught them very quickly.

Even a 5 and 6 month old can be trained to know right from wrong. They are very smart and learn very quickly. Mine sure did! One or two smacks on the hand and they never touched an electrical outlet again.

Our children at six to twelve months were 10 times smarter than our three year old dog and cat, and all three of them were trained to control what they could control.

I also find it odd that she is goes back and forth between saying that hitting them with a switch causes no/almost no pain, to saying pain worked great for her kids.

Finally, I thought this interaction was interesting (watch how fast Lori bitch slaps her followers when they stray):

Lori to S:

SXXXX, I want you to know you are liking people's comments that are not regular readers of mine. They say I teach the way I raised my children is the only way. They use the derogatory term of "hitting" instead of spanking implying I teach abuse. They say I teach children should blindly obey all authority. You know I don't teach these things. Whenever I teach on the Pearls, I get attacked by evil websites who hate the Pearls so be careful who you "like", okay?

I think Lori must have deleted the comments S liked.

[docmom]

I'd like to hit Lori with a switch but I'm worried she'd enjoy it too much.

[twin2]

Well here you go Lori and all you Pearl followers, if hitting with a switch doesn't hurt the next time a baby puts its fingers near an outlet, tries to climb the stairs or attempts to touch a hot stove, hit yourself with it for being too stupid to put a cover over an outlet, put up the baby gate or provide easy access to a hot surface. Babies don't have the mental capacity to understand those things are bad, however THE ADULTS should be smart enough to put the proper protections in place.

I can not comprehend why anyone thinks it is acceptable to HIT A BABY!

[FloraKitty35]

Hey let's go to San Diego and beat Lori with a switch, so she can get feel for it. Sadistic cunt!!!!! :twisted:

[GeoBQn]

I think its telling that even the commenters who are in favor of spanking are calling out Lori for thinking that it's ok to hit a 5-month-old.

[debrand]

Pearl supporters often claim that spanking doesn't hurt but that doesn't make any sense. If hitting doesn't hurt, why pick it as a form of 'teaching' over another method?

[twinmama]

OH MY GOD. Do not compare protecting your child with immunizations with BEATING A FIVE MONTH OLD so they won't climb the stairs. Babies are supposed to explore for fuck's sake.

Also, damn that is one advanced 5 month old.

Pearl supporters often claim that spanking doesn't hurt but that doesn't make any sense. If hitting doesn't hurt, why pick it as a form of 'teaching' over another method?

I don't know why they would hit a 5 month old, but in an older child perhaps its the humiliation that "works." Either way it's a horrifying thought. Hitting an infant teaches them one thing, that mom or dad is not a source of love or comfort, they are a source of pain and fear.

[debrand]

OH MY GOD. Do not compare protecting your child with immunizations with BEATING A FIVE MONTH OLD so they won't climb the stairs. Babies are supposed to explore for fuck's sake.

Also, damn that is one advanced 5 month old.

I don't know why they would hit a 5 month old, but in an older child perhaps its the humiliation that "works." Either way it's a horrifying thought. Hitting an infant teaches them one thing, that mom or dad is not a source of love or comfort, they are a source of pain and fear.

Just for the record, I think that the Pearl supporters are being dishonest. I was switched as a child and it hurt like hell. Lots of people on this forum don't have experience with switches so I should have been more clear.

[Conuly]

When I was a kid, I once was in a museum gift shop with a friend. They were selling these long, flexible pencils. Same width as normal pencils and "twigs". I picked one up and flicked it at my friend, as a joke. Not hard, but you know, you can't really hurt somebody by hitting them with a fucking pencil, right?

It raised a god damn welt. And yeah, I believe it *really hurt*.

I hadn't meant for that to happen, had not realized that I could do actual damage with just a pencil, even a flexible one.

The thought of doing anything like that to a baby makes me sick. And it's not any more effective than other methods of teaching either. If it really were more effective, that'd be one thing, but it sure as hell is not.

[Trynn]

As someone who has hit herself with a pencil very often (in school we used to break them against our foreheads because... we were 11, I don't know) IT HURTS. Badly. Unless you hit yourself JUST RIGHT and the pencil actually breaks, then it's painless. but if you do it wrong and it stays unbroken, then, um, ow.

My dad got me #3 pencils, and I could break those, but they didn't seem to hurt more than the #1 pencils he also bought me. (He saw them in the store and wondered why everyone always buys #2 pencils, so he got me different ones.)

The only time it is ok to hit a baby is, if I remember correctly from EMT class, if they are choking, there is a spot between the shoulder blades where you are supposed to smack them to make the object come out. Maybe this is not recommended anymore, I don't know, it's been a while. I would love to be corrected if I am wrong.

Anyone who lays a hand on my child for any other reason than that is going to pull back a stump. Or go to jail, if I can manage it.

[lilwriter85]

I think its telling that even the commenters who are in favor of spanking are calling out Lori for thinking that it's ok to hit a 5-month-old.

I haven't looked at Lori's blog FB, but I do know people who are like that. They believe in spanking, but they don't think babies or toddlers should be hit. About 10 years ago, I was working in a grocery store floral department. One of my co-workers used to talk about her kids. At the time, her two older kids were out of the house and her third child was 6. She said that believe in spanking, if her kids did something that she viewed as really bad. But she said would never hit a child or a toddler. This women had been working at the store for several years before I worked there. She told me about an incident when she used to do stocking in the store, she said she witnessed a woman hit her toddler daughter because the daughter was biting on the woman's purse straps. My former co-worker said she went and told one of the store managers who called the police, but they never heard anything from the police.

[Trynn]

Actually, I would say most people who believe in slamming don't believe in starting until... I've heard anywhere from 2-5, with the general consensus being that it should stop before the age of 8. Nobody I've talked to IRL would "spank" a baby.

[GeoBQn]

Lori is insisting on FB that a 5-month-old baby is "no longer an infant."

[emiliawasframed]

Lori is insisting on FB that a 5-month-old baby is "no longer an infant."

Nope. Etymologically, "infant" means "unable to speak," which is why the infant cutoff is around one year, when most wee ones learn to talk in understandable phrases and sentences. So unless Lori's kids talked at 5 mo., nope.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

A baby has no idea what an electrical outlet is or why squirming while changing a diaper is inconvenient for you. You inflicting pain on them just scares and hurts them. It is never necessary. These people are mentally disturbed.