Lay off Josh Duggar's Weight?

[keeperrox]

I look at it this way:

I wouldn't go to a Vegan board and try to convince people to eat meat, whether or not I agree with them.

I wouldn't go to a Michael Jackson fan board and try to convince people that he was a pedophile, even though I think he was.

And I certainly wouldn't go to a snark board and try to convince people not to make fun of their main target, even if it makes me cringe.

[Jencendiary]

But if the snark is based in certain concepts of social justice and the targets main offenses are playing to the deep-seated 'isms' in the country. . .isn't it fair game to call the posters on their isms as well?

[keeperrox]

But if the snark is based in certain concepts of social justice and the targets main offenses are playing to the deep-seated 'isms' in the country. . .isn't it fair game to call the posters on their isms as well?

Call them on it all you want where appropriate, but starting a holier-than-thou hand-slapping thread is insulting bullshit no matter how you spin it, so expect some vitriol back.

[LynnKaboom]

But if the snark is based in certain concepts of social justice and the targets main offenses are playing to the deep-seated 'isms' in the country. . .isn't it fair game to call the posters on their isms as well?

The problem is that turns members of the board into the PC Police. I do try to be a decent person most of the time- I personally don't snark on people's weight because I just don't give a flying fuck. They're not me- if they're fat they're fat, and as Thomas Jefferson said, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. But there's a HUGE difference between someone saying something racist and going "lol ur fat," and I think it's extremely disingenuous to try to conflate them. And that's how it's coming off here- the PC Police is here to arrest you for calling someone fat because that's totally as bad as racism and homophobia!

There's a difference between telling someone "you're out of line" if they get... well, out of line, and trying to make everything perfectly politically correct. I've run into a variation of this problem in fandom, and it's a bit disappointing to see it infiltrating snark of all things. The point of snark is to be snarky.

[Buzzard]

Call them on it all you want where appropriate, but starting a holier-than-thou hand-slapping thread is insulting bullshit no matter how you spin it, so expect some vitriol back.

And then editing the original post so that the people downthread have no idea exactly how "pearl clutching" your original post (which I responded to) was.

"Lay off Josh Duggar's Weight?" is the title of this thread. My response: "FUCK NO."

We've had this type of discussion regarding "crotch fruit", snarking on awkward children on youtube, and various other things that "offend" others. Snark isnt nice. Snark isnt PC. Snark is meant to offend. Can it be low class, yup. It can be damn funny too (see the pic regarding before/after chicken etti).

Our rules pretty much say we have no rules. If you dont like something thats said, skip it. The only rule I'd change as a result of this thread is adding one banning "please dont snark on this" threads.

[justlurking]

The problem is that turns members of the board into the PC Police. I do try to be a decent person most of the time- I personally don't snark on people's weight because I just don't give a flying fuck. They're not me- if they're fat they're fat, and as Thomas Jefferson said, it neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg. But there's a HUGE difference between someone saying something racist and going "lol ur fat," and I think it's extremely disingenuous to try to conflate them. And that's how it's coming off here- the PC Police is here to arrest you for calling someone fat because that's totally as bad as racism and homophobia!

There's a difference between telling someone "you're out of line" if they get... well, out of line, and trying to make everything perfectly politically correct. I've run into a variation of this problem in fandom, and it's a bit disappointing to see it infiltrating snark of all things. The point of snark is to be snarky.

THIS x 1000

[Austin]

There's a difference between telling someone "you're out of line" if they get... well, out of line, and trying to make everything perfectly politically correct. I've run into a variation of this problem in fandom, and it's a bit disappointing to see it infiltrating snark of all things. The point of snark is to be snarky.

We have a large, diverse community here. There are bound to be issues, like this one, over which people will disagree. I really don't think that hyper-PC attitudes have infiltrated the board. People can state their positions, but that's all anybody can do, and personally, I don't believe handslapping works. Of course, it's not prohibited, and posters should say what they want. There's not much that can't be said on FJ as long as it doesn't break forum rules (see Forum Rules in red letters above).

I just wanted to be clear that no one school of thought has or is going to "infiltrate" FJ.

[LynnKaboom]

We have a large, diverse community here. There are bound to be issues, like this one, over which people will disagree. I really don't think that hyper-PC attitudes have infiltrated the board. People can state their positions, but that's all anybody can do, and personally, I don't believe handslapping works. Of course, it's not prohibited, and posters should say what they want. There's not much that can't be said on FJ as long as it doesn't break forum rules (see Forum Rules in red letters above).

I just wanted to be clear that no one school of thought has or is going to "infiltrate" FJ.

I probably used the wrong word there- maybe "showing up" would be better. I don't think it's hyper-PC up in here either, but occasionally, things like this topic ping my radar.

I didn't intend for my post to come across as HOLY SHIT PC POLICE UP IN HERE!!!! ABANDON SHIP!!!!! Sorry if it did.

[Lainey]

I'm not trying to hand slap anyone. I just stated that it hurts my feelings when the topic turns to certain things about weight--not just saying that someone's fat, but the attitude that always comes out on these kinds of threads that if fat people would just get off their fat ass and work out, and eat less, that would be problem solved. In theory, yes, I agree completely. In reality, it's not that simple. I desperately wish it was. There are psychological and emotional things that go along with weight gain.

In my family, there wasn't really enough food. I never realized this until about a year ago, actually, when I mentioned to my friends about how I ate growing up (I was very skinny), and they pointed out that I really didn't have much food. My mom didn't really keep anything "snacky" in the house, and once the meal was gone, it was gone. No seconds. I have IBS, and sometimes I would be sick before breakfast, but if I wasn't at the table, my brother would eat it, and my mother wouldn't stop him. Now I have MAJOR issues if someone eats something in the house that was supposed to be mine. I could see Josh having similar issues.

That said, I don't really care about Josh; I don't know the guy. I do think his upbringing is the reason he's Smuggar now. I don't care what anyone says about him, but I do wish people would consider other people when they generalize (yeah, I know--wishes, horses, beggars, etc.). I don't know what the original post said; I only saw it after it had been edited about 8 times. I don't know; I don't believe in censorship, so I'm not going to try to tell anyone what they should and shouldn't say. Snark away.

Signed,

Insecure, pearl-clutching fatass and puffin-lover.

[Austin]

I probably used the wrong word there- maybe "showing up" would be better. I don't think it's hyper-PC up in here either, but occasionally, things like this topic ping my radar.

I didn't intend for my post to come across as HOLY SHIT PC POLICE UP IN HERE!!!! ABANDON SHIP!!!!! Sorry if it did.

No, it didn't really. I just thought now would be a good time to speak as a mod about what will or will not be allowed to infiltrate FJ. We mods presume, as we always have, that members will police themselves and we step in as little as is possible. :)

[Beeks]

I don't really think it's crazy PC to state the opinion that it's wrong to bash people for the way they look (even if they CHOOSE to look that way, as so many seem to think it's really that simple).

[LynnKaboom]

Oh, Lainey. *hugs*

My dad has some of the same issues- he has a thyroid condition and my grandmother was always really weird about food (she still is, kind of, only according to my dad and my aunt she's calmed down A LOT over the years). As a result of his crazy food-hoarding habits and thyroid problems, he's very overweight. I love my dad and I know how hard it is for him, I'd imagine that's it's similar for a lot of other people.

But I really don't think anything anyone's saying is meant to reflect on you, or my dad, or anyone else who isn't the intended target of the snark. I certainly haven't meant to hurt anyone's feelings with what I've said in this thread and others. :(

[thoughtful]

No I definitely understand that! As I said before, I think the Dougie jokes are totally fine and relevant.

It's more the point that if simply making fat jokes is enough to hurt feelings I would think simply making gay jokes should be in the same category. It's pretty clear that Josh's lifestyle is at the very least a major factor in his weight gain, so to me it seems the fat jokes are (while a cheap shot and not really that funny a lot of the time) are also relevant to people snarking on his lifestyle. My problem is that people seem to be picking and choosing what should or should not be used for snark because it's hurting feelings - with no regard for other things we do all the time that could be hurting feelings. Like I said before, either be concerned for everyone or just let it be.

I supect that PBrooke answered, as I felt compelled to answer originally (and answer again now, since my quote was still in your latest post), since you used my pointing out how snarking on Doug's mannerisms was more tempting for me, in a way that had nothing to do with what I was saying.

It still sorta sounds that way.

I would have had no problem with what you said, if you had quoted and answered someone who was actually arguing that snarking on Josh's being fat was not OK at all. Or someone who had posted that mocking gay people was OK, but mocking fat people was not (happily, there were none of those to answer!).

And I still feel a bit responsible to make myself clear, since you or someone reading may still not get why the LOLDougs are more tempting for me than Joshschmaltz jokes.

Josh has not proclaimed himself a fitness guru - he is not selling a zillion items to promote being slender. Doug does sell The Image of Perfect Manliness (TM :lol: ).

To take it completely out of the realm of FJ, weight and sexuality, let me put it this way:

If I worked with some fellow teachers who were bitchy, judgmental and generally obnoxious to peers, but who did their jobs well, I wouldn't want to snark on the way they teach, although other things about them might dismay me.

But, if I worked with someone who was obnoxious to colleagues, and specifically set themselves up as The Great Expert on teaching math, and then I could clearly see that they were practically innumerate, pricking that bubble would tempt me more.

It's the direct hypocrisy aspect that seems juiciest for funny snark to me - when arrogant people are hoisted by their own petard (and I just love using that expression, too! :D ).

Hope that makes it clear.

BTW, some of the information in this thread has been interesting and relevant.

The idea that Gothard frowns on fat, that food may well be used in a very controlling way in some of the families we discuss (and we know for sure it is, in some), the inability of kids raised in controlling atmospheres to handle freedom -- all of those are worth discussing, I think.

I think that's interesting, whether one is grossed out by Josh's fat, see it as Karma for his arrogance, or sympathetic, feeling his inability to regulate himself is because nobody ever taught him.

I also think it ties in with the great discussion about whether these kids ever really grow up, and by what definitions they could appear "mature" or "immature."

Maybe we need a new thread.

[Lainey]

But I really don't think anything anyone's saying is meant to reflect on you, or my dad, or anyone else who isn't the intended target of the snark. I certainly haven't meant to hurt anyone's feelings with what I've said in this thread and others. :(

Thanks, LynnKaboom. No, it's not the---hmmm, I don't quite know how to explain this. It's not the snark, exactly. It's the general fat-bashing that tends to come with these sorts of threads. Not by everyone, by any means. But there are always people--who have no idea what they're talking about because they've never had to deal with it--who have to come along and opine that it's actually really easy to lose, you just have to put your mind to it, etc. I used to think like that, when I was skinny. Damn karma. :evil:

And just because I feel like mentioning it, I seriously started packing on weight when I went on the pill. Going off it didn't help, either; it just screwed up my cycle.

[StarrieEyedKat]

Thanks, LynnKaboom. No, it's not the---hmmm, I don't quite know how to explain this. It's not the snark, exactly. It's the general fat-bashing that tends to come with these sorts of threads. Not by everyone, by any means. But there are always people--who have no idea what they're talking about because they've never had to deal with it--who have to come along and opine that it's actually really easy to lose, you just have to put your mind to it, etc. I used to think like that, when I was skinny. Damn karma. :evil:

And just because I feel like mentioning it, I seriously started packing on weight when I went on the pill. Going off it didn't help, either; it just screwed up my cycle.

Completely O/T, but same here - I started the pill when I was about 17, and I was about 22 when I went to a new OB-GYN and asked about what BC would have less of an effect on my weight. He went on to say that BC doesn't cause weight gain, it must just be "all the pizza and beer" I consumed. For the record, I'm a vegetarian and I didn't drink, my eating habits hadn't really changed, and once I went of the BC, I lost about 30 lbs. (That gyno also caused some major bleeding issues by botching up my routine pap, but I'm pretty sure he's not practicing anymore, thank god.) Anyhow, just thought I'd share my story since the pill made me gain a ton of weight too.

Back to your argument everyone! :whistle:

[Austin]

And I gain weight if I go off the pill. Go figure. :)

[LynnKaboom]

On the subject of the pill, which I take for my endometriosis- it didn't cause weight gain for me, but it did give me epic zits. Apparently I'm in the like 2% of people whose acne didn't improve after going on it. Of course.

[DamnPrecious]

I'm going to be honest. I hate political correctness. I honestly believe truth often get shoved aside in fear of being politically incorrect. Not that I think people should be running and being purposely mean. People get offended, always have and always will. I refuse to walk on eggshells.

[ladypuglover]

I'm going to be honest. I hate political correctness. I honestly believe truth often get shoved aside in fear of being politically incorrect. Not that I think people should be running and being purposely mean. People get offended, always have and always will. I refuse to walk on eggshells.

[Guest Anonymous]

LOL!

"I just can't understand the apparent lack of sensitivity for anybody who doesn't share this perspective - they're bleeding hearts and pearl clutchers and insecure fatties. What made you people so bitter and callous"

Yeah we're horrible and bitter and callous and whatever. Because it isn't like you joined a snark board. You would never do anything like that.

Right? Right?

I don't like that there are people here with legitimate arguments that are being reduced to "pearl clutchers" and "trolls" and being told "the fact of being fat should not be an insult to a fat person!" And you can't hide behind the argument that "this is a snark board!!1!" just because you don't have a good excuse for being closed minded. Yes, this is a snark board, but does that mean we're not open to any discussion or debate as to what is acceptable to be snarked on without someone being called "The PC police"? FTR, I don't even care either way how people talk about Josh Duggar. I think fat jokes are cheap shots, but hey, some people get their kicks from low-hanging fruit, so whatever. My problem is the way this argument, by the first response, was already a mudslinging match because someone expressed a difference of opinion.

[Quiverless]

You have a right to your opinion and I have a right to mine.

Oh, good lord. I hate when people say that. Really? We have a right to our opinions? The only worse line is "Well, that's you're opinion." Um, yeah, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

[LynnKaboom]

Oh, good lord. I hate when people say that. Really? We have a right to our opinions? The only worse line is "Well, that's you're opinion." Um, yeah, otherwise I wouldn't have said it.

Sorry, sorry, I couldn't resist. :mrgreen:

[3 is enough]

Here's a thought: I don't think I would have ever commented on Josh's weight had he always been overweight.

There is a big difference, in my mind, about snarking on an overweight teenager and snarking on an adult who gained more weight during his wife's pregnancies than she did.

Bingo. I could stand to lose a pound (or twenty) myself, and I don't make fun of people who are overweight.

But Josh is different, because he is so smug. He's a young guy, and barring a medical condition we know nothing about, his weight gain seems to be a result of him having no self control, which is ironic for such a holier-than-thou jerk. Posting photos of all the fast food meals he eats on his facebook page doesn't help either.

Maybe it is true that food was rationed in the Duggar home, and the unlimited portions available to him when he left home did him in. It's certainly a common enough issue. If he wasn't so smug, I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

And BMI can be very inaccurate. My son is 5'8", and weighs 225 lbs. According to his BMI, he is obese, but he most definitely is not. His weight comes from muscle. He plays hockey, and has thighs like an Olympic speed skater.

[Kelya]

I don't like that there are people here with legitimate arguments that are being reduced to "pearl clutchers" and "trolls" and being told "the fact of being fat should not be an insult to a fat person!" And you can't hide behind the argument that "this is a snark board!!1!" just because you don't have a good excuse for being closed minded. Yes, this is a snark board, but does that mean we're not open to any discussion or debate as to what is acceptable to be snarked on without someone being called "The PC police"? FTR, I don't even care either way how people talk about Josh Duggar. I think fat jokes are cheap shots, but hey, some people get their kicks from low-hanging fruit, so whatever. My problem is the way this argument, by the first response, was already a mudslinging match because someone expressed a difference of opinion.

Can you really not get it through your head that the OP has significantly edited the post at least five times? (she's even changed the title at least three times!) The post I responded to originally was one of the most judging, shaming, handslapping, pearl clutching posts I've ever read here. It rivaled Elle's "be nice to a rude bitch" thread.

ANYTIME someone posts with the aim of controlling anyone else's behavior, its gonna be an issue. OP didn't post HER opinions on fatphobic comments or on any of the issues raised in the ensuing discussion. She posted a one off bitch fit about how everyone should be nicer and then edited it down when everyone didn't fall all over her in praise.

[Lainey]

Can you really not get it through your head that the OP has significantly edited the post at least five times? (she's even changed the title at least three times!) The post I responded to originally was one of the most judging, shaming, handslapping, pearl clutching posts I've ever read here. It rivaled Elle's "be nice to a rude bitch" thread.

ANYTIME someone posts with the aim of controlling anyone else's behavior, its gonna be an issue. OP didn't post HER opinions on fatphobic comments or on any of the issues raised in the ensuing discussion. She posted a one off bitch fit about how everyone should be nicer and then edited it down when everyone didn't fall all over her in praise.

I'm just dying to know what the original post said. Pity nobody quoted it at the time. :(