Lay off Josh Duggar's Weight?

[PBrooke]

I'm still not getting why weight is something that we need to lay off because it hurts some people's feelings, but topics that might hurt other people's feelings are totally fine.

This, to me, makes it seems like the gay jokes are equally cheap - if not more - as the fat jokes. He sucks as a person, likes faux history and his interns, so it's okay to call him gay? You even think he's probably straight but since "gay" is the ultimate insult to him and his lifestyle it's fair game. [Note]

Whoa, whoa, I think there might be some misunderstanding about where the lulz come from in LOLDoug. The joke is two-fold: one, he probably is gay, so it's funny because then he's such a hypocrite; two, it's funny that he pretends to be an authority on "straight male manliness" but comes off effeminate, ridiculous, the complete opposite of what he's trying to be. It's funny because he fails so hard, not because we think being gay is an insult.

[thoughtful]

Whoa, whoa, I think there might be some misunderstanding about where the lulz come from in LOLDoug. The joke is two-fold: one, he probably is gay, so it's funny because then he's such a hypocrite; two, it's funny that he pretends to be an authority on "straight male manliness" but comes off effeminate, ridiculous, the complete opposite of what he's trying to be. It's funny because he fails so hard, not because we think being gay is an insult.

Yep.

[Guest Anonymous]

Chalk me up as another one who sees the fat jokes as kind of juvenile. As others have said, Smuggar himself has never (as far as we know) commented on anyone's weight and we have no reason to believe he's fatphobic at all, so comparing the snark on his weight gain to the snark on the blatantly homophobic agenda of The Fabulous Dougie seems to me to be a bit of creative justification. Personally, when I see comments like that in a Smuggar thread, it just cheapens the person's whole argument for me, because the comments on his weight just aren't relevent.

I get that some people just like to snark and get all their "mean" out on this board, and it's cathartic, or whatever. I'm not going to try and deny them the right to comment however they wish. I just think that with all the legitimate material Smuggar serves up, the fat jokes are pretty weak.

Just my 2 cents.

[ThisOlGirl]

I've made comments about Smuggar's chunk, and I don't feel bad about it, but this thread did get me thinking. Do you think the Duggar kids are just allowed to grab a snack whenever they want to, or is food kind of restricted to set meal/snack times? Do you think there's strict portion control where food is concerned so as to stretch a buck? And I'm guessing with all those kids, they didn't eat out a lot pre-TLC. What I'm saying/thinking is that Josh is finally out of the house and he realized, "Hey, I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want as much as I want, and I can go out to eat whenever I want." Maybe food is one of the many things in his life that has been restricted, and he's just going crazy, thus the weight gain

Edited to add missing words.

[Witsec5]

I have been wondering about the availability of food in the Duggar household. Smuggar takes pics of restaurant meals and puts them on his FB page or so I have been informed. Strikes me as sad with him coming from a family where men are assumed to have no self control. Well I would be sad if he did not think he was so superior to everyone else giving marriage advice etc. So it is not that he is fat because I have no problem with that...it is more like he is a child who sees something he wants and cannot say no.

[Beeks]

I've made comments about Smuggar's chunk, and I don't feel bad about it, but this thread did get me thinking. Do you think the Duggar kids are just allowed to grab a snack whenever they want to, or is food kind of restricted to set meal/snack times? Do you think there's strict portion control where food is concerned so as to stretch a buck? And I'm guessing with all those kids, they didn't eat out a lot pre-TLC. What I'm saying/thinking is that Josh is finally out of the house and he realized, "Hey, I can whatever I want, whenever I want as much as I want, and I can go out to eat whenever I want." Maybe food is one of the many things in his life that has been restricted, and he's just going crazy, thus the weight gain.

It might be the fundie equivalent of the Freshman 15...a lot of people go overboard when they first get out on their own.

[Rachel333]

I have been wondering about the availability of food in the Duggar household.

That's an interesting point. With that many people to feed, I wouldn't be surprised if there's not enough food for the kids to be able to snack or have much freedom to decide what to eat. Even if they have the money, that would take a tremendous amount of food. A lot of kids whose parents tightly control what they eat tend to go crazy once they're on their own. I knew some kids whose mom never let them eat any sugar who would stuff their face with candy whenever they had the chance and she wasn't there.

[marmalade]

I've made comments about Smuggar's chunk, and I don't feel bad about it, but this thread did get me thinking. Do you think the Duggar kids are just allowed to grab a snack whenever they want to, or is food kind of restricted to set meal/snack times? Do you think there's strict portion control where food is concerned so as to stretch a buck? And I'm guessing with all those kids, they didn't eat out a lot pre-TLC. What I'm saying/thinking is that Josh is finally out of the house and he realized, "Hey, I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want as much as I want, and I can go out to eat whenever I want." Maybe food is one of the many things in his life that has been restricted, and he's just going crazy, thus the weight gain

Edited to add missing words.

Gothard does not like fat. I've read enough stories about young adults being deprived of food at his facilities (at which the families pay the privilege for their kids to work) or even sent home for being overweight. For a guy who preaches so much about wavy hair attracting one to the bright eyes of the countenance, he has major dictates about appearance. Since Smuggar never worked at a Gothard training center and is now a married man, he is no longer bound by those strictures, but I remember how skinny he was after he returned from the Gothard camp when he was around 16 (the special when they moved from their old house to the rental, before moving into the TTH). Yeah, 16 year olds tend to be skinny because they're growing, but that was the one time when he seemed almost....normal...in his attitude.

For me, the moment he got married, he became a monster and his weight gain, probably about the only form of rebellion he can exercise since as we all know, for all the talk of "leave and cleave," he's still under Daddy's thumb and deep down that's gotta hurt. The other issue I have is that Anna, who was 21 and breastfeeding, also did not lose most of her baby weight; she was rail thin when they married and at that age should easily be able to regain her pre-baby figure. It's great they feed the baby organic foods, but my problem is that they have the money and she has the time to learn to cook healthy meals, but it's like they're blithely ignoring this because it's the only thing they can control and since they never really grew up, they're being very childish.

So yeah, until Smuggar and Anna (since she's the one cooking the stuff he likes) have a change of heart, I will snark on the bloat.

I think O Latin mentioned something about how TWOP interprets this and as a regular there for the last 5 years, I have to disagree. I see little difference in the Smuggar snark. I don't frequent the TLC boards (I'd be banned in 60 seconds), but the only place I frequent that has much sympathy for Smugs is DWOP. He brought it all on himself and yes, I'm a bitch when it comes to people whose feeling of superiority oozes from every pore; if he were a more likeable guy, he'd certainly get a pass. FWIW, the stuff that has come out of JD's mouth of late makes me wish he'd shut it again.

An asshole is an asshole, skinny or fat.

[darareaksmey]

Gothard does not like fat. I've read enough stories about young adults being deprived of food at his facilities (at which the families pay the privilege for their kids to work) or even sent home for being overweight. For a guy who preaches so much about wavy hair attracting one to the bright eyes of the countenance, he has major dictates about appearance. Since Smuggar never worked at a Gothard training center and is now a married man, he is no longer bound by those strictures, but I remember how skinny he was after he returned from the Gothard camp when he was around 16 (the special when they moved from their old house to the rental, before moving into the TTH). Yeah, 16 year olds tend to be skinny because they're growing, but that was the one time when he seemed almost....normal...in his attitude.

For me, the moment he got married, he became a monster and his weight gain, probably about the only form of rebellion he can exercise since as we all know, for all the talk of "leave and cleave," he's still under Daddy's thumb and deep down that's gotta hurt. The other issue I have is that Anna, who was 21 and breastfeeding, also did not lose most of her baby weight; she was rail thin when they married and at that age should easily be able to regain her pre-baby figure. It's great they feed the baby organic foods, but my problem is that they have the money and she has the time to learn to cook healthy meals, but it's like they're blithely ignoring this because it's the only thing they can control and since they never really grew up, they're being very childish.

So yeah, until Smuggar and Anna (since she's the one cooking the stuff he likes) have a change of heart, I will snark on the bloat.

I think O Latin mentioned something about how TWOP interprets this and as a regular there for the last 5 years, I have to disagree. I see little difference in the Smuggar snark. I don't frequent the TLC boards (I'd be banned in 60 seconds), but the only place I frequent that has much sympathy for Smugs is DWOP. He brought it all on himself and yes, I'm a bitch when it comes to people whose feeling of superiority oozes from every pore; if he were a more likeable guy, he'd certainly get a pass. FWIW, the stuff that has come out of JD's mouth of late makes me wish he'd shut it again.

An asshole is an asshole, skinny or fat.

**applauding wildly**

Of course, it's low-hanging fruit to call a fat person fat. In Smuggar's case, it's also an unassailable fact. Is there anyone out there who doesn't think Josh is overweight? Fat is fat. As someone once said, the word "bastard" is only an insult to a person who is unclear on his parentage. As a fat person who's been fighting the tonnage my whole life, my *last* concern is whether someone calls me fat. If they did, they'd be right, so how could that bother me? Calling Smuggar fat is the same as calling him a young married guy--a factual statement. Is it the only thing I can think to say about him? No, but it isn't libelous; and if it hurts his feelings (if he cared what I had to say about him, which I sincerely doubt) then perhaps he ought to embark on a campaign to lose a few lbs. so people wouldn't have that FACT to comment on anymore.

[Eponine]

Whoa, whoa, I think there might be some misunderstanding about where the lulz come from in LOLDoug. The joke is two-fold: one, he probably is gay, so it's funny because then he's such a hypocrite; two, it's funny that he pretends to be an authority on "straight male manliness" but comes off effeminate, ridiculous, the complete opposite of what he's trying to be. It's funny because he fails so hard, not because we think being gay is an insult.

No I definitely understand that! As I said before, I think the Dougie jokes are totally fine and relevant.

It's more the point that if simply making fat jokes is enough to hurt feelings I would think simply making gay jokes should be in the same category. It's pretty clear that Josh's lifestyle is at the very least a major factor in his weight gain, so to me it seems the fat jokes are (while a cheap shot and not really that funny a lot of the time) are also relevant to people snarking on his lifestyle. My problem is that people seem to be picking and choosing what should or should not be used for snark because it's hurting feelings - with no regard for other things we do all the time that could be hurting feelings. Like I said before, either be concerned for everyone or just let it be.

[Beeks]

**applauding wildly**

Of course, it's low-hanging fruit to call a fat person fat. In Smuggar's case, it's also an unassailable fact. Is there anyone out there who doesn't think Josh is overweight? Fat is fat. As someone once said, the word "bastard" is only an insult to a person who is unclear on his parentage. As a fat person who's been fighting the tonnage my whole life, my *last* concern is whether someone calls me fat. If they did, they'd be right, so how could that bother me? Calling Smuggar fat is the same as calling him a young married guy--a factual statement. Is it the only thing I can think to say about him? No, but it isn't libelous; and if it hurts his feelings (if he cared what I had to say about him, which I sincerely doubt) then perhaps he ought to embark on a campaign to lose a few lbs. so people wouldn't have that FACT to comment on anymore.

This is ridiculous. It is in no way the same, because being fat has so many negative connotations in today's society. Nobody would try to use "unmarried guy" as an insult. It's the difference between stating that a gay person is homosexual, or hurling "YOU'RE GAY!" at them as an insult. It's not the same thing at all. I have no problem with people commenting "Hey Josh has put on a few pounds" - the problem I have is when it's used as an insult: "fat fuck!" etc. That hurts more than just Josh Duggar, it hurts all fat people by perpetuating the idea that it's ok to make fun of fat people simply for being fat. It's not.

[JesusFightClub]

These people are enemies. They just are. It might be funny to lol at them now and again but we should not lose sight of where people like VF or the adult Duggars now are, which is a very bad place. What do you think they would say about you?

It would be wrong to just call random fat people an insult. Granted. But this is a snark board, where are we supposed to stop? Every time we might offend someone? Yeah that will work well with snark.

They have set their whole lives on public view. Like bloggers we chat about, too bad if they are discussed.

[Jencendiary]

This is ridiculous. It is in no way the same, because being fat has so many negative connotations in today's society. Nobody would try to use "unmarried guy" as an insult. It's the difference between stating that a gay person is homosexual, or hurling "YOU'RE GAY!" at them as an insult. It's not the same thing at all. I have no problem with people commenting "Hey Josh has put on a few pounds" - the problem I have is when it's used as an insult: "fat fuck!" etc. That hurts more than just Josh Duggar, it hurts all fat people by perpetuating the idea that it's ok to make fun of fat people simply for being fat. It's not.

Co-signed.

[Boogalou]

I just think it is kind of sad that we live in a society where calling someone fat is mean, insulting and passes for a joke, but none of that really relates to Josh. Obviously, this site is for snarking and people will say what they want. These handslapping posts are always incredibly ineffective, but they are fun to read.

Does anyone have a copy of the original unedited post though? I can't stand not knowing what was said!

[Guest Anonymous]

Co-signed.

This, precisely

[keeperrox]

I just think it is kind of sad that we live in a society where calling someone fat is mean, insulting and passes for a joke, but none of that really relates to Josh. Obviously, this site is for snarking and people will say what they want. These handslapping posts are always incredibly ineffective, but they are fun to read.

Does anyone have a copy of the original unedited post though? I can't stand not knowing what was said!

+1

[Angri-la]

These people are enemies. They just are. It might be funny to lol at them now and again but we should not lose sight of where people like VF or the adult Duggars now are, which is a very bad place. What do you think they would say about you?

It would be wrong to just call random fat people an insult. Granted. But this is a snark board, where are we supposed to stop? Every time we might offend someone? Yeah that will work well with snark.

They have set their whole lives on public view. Like bloggers we chat about, too bad if they are discussed.

This is the last time I post on this topic, because my point remains the same: it is all fair game, whether it makes someone uncomfortableor not.

They are all enemies, and the bicker about SMUGGAR is derailing the fact that he is a smug, lazy face of the Quiverfuller/ATI lifestyle. They think we are hellbound. I respect that many are passionate about not taking the low blow. I purpose to avoid it when I can, however, sometimes when I get angry. Post in haste, repent at leisure.

[darareaksmey]

Very respectfully, I could not disagree with you more. Is Smuggar not fat? How is the fact of being fat an insult to a fat person? I am a fat person, and if someone called me fat, how is that supposed to bug me? I would consider it descriptive, not insulting. Do fat people not know that they are fat? If not, the the reasons behind the obesity epidemic just became very, very clear. And BTW, the "fuck" is in no way related to the "fat" except by way of alliteration. He could be a slender fuck, also, but he isn't. I know lots of fat people, myself included, who aren't fucks at all.

The gay analogy does not fly. It might if I were calling Josh a gross, quivering, slobby, obese bowl of fatness. which would be roughly the equivalent of yelling "You're gay!" to a nongay person. But I am identifying him as fat, just as I might identify him as gay if I knew he were gay. MIght his feelings be hurt? I gravely doubt that Smuggar gives a rat's ass what I or any of us say about him, but let's just suppose he were insulted by being linked with this objective term. Perhaps then he ought to consider losing a few lbs. in order that the fact of fat no longer applies to him.

Again, being called a bastard is only an insult if you don't know who your parents are. Sheesh and whatever. Sign me, Factually Fat and not so far in denial about it that my feelings would be hurt if peole used that word around me.

**edited to change "nonfat" to "nongay"

[Effie]

Josh seems to be aware of his weight problem. Taken from his facebook: "Dinner...and a show! (Get it? Ok...If you eat fried foods too much...it'll show!!!)"

[Maul the Koala]

Gothard does not like fat. I've read enough stories about young adults being deprived of food at his facilities (at which the families pay the privilege for their kids to work) or even sent home for being overweight.

Wow, what a recipe for disaster. That is messing up their metabolisms to the point where they finally do get a decent meal they're going to gain weight like crazy.

I'm much like ladypuglover. I'm on two medications that cause weight gain like you would not believe. I have my choices. I could go off them and be skinny as a rail again, but risking my life. I've tried committing suicide more than a few times without them. Not going back to that place. I've been working out 3-5 times a week, I'm eating decently. The pounds will not come off. I am springing for a personal trainer to see if that helps, but it's still very very difficult to deal with. People who say "You can lose weight if you put your mind to it!" need to go on the medications I'm on. It's more than just putting your mind to it, there are days I feel like I'd have to devote my entire life to it in order to get this excess weight off.

I'm actually in pretty good shape too for being overweight too.

That being said I think there's probably a lot of issues related to his weight. All of a sudden he has unlimited access to food. Glorious glorious food. With a farm of people in his previous living arrangements he probably didn't get a lot of food. My dad grew up in a large family and he still hides food because that's the only way he'd get any extra food when he was living at home. I'm not kidding. They weren't well off as it was and had to send away one of the kids to be raised by the grandparents since they couldn't afford to keep him. All of his siblings (except the one that was sent away) have huge issues with food to this day.

[Guest Anonymous]

There seem to be an awful lot of people on this thread who are of the impression that if something doesn't bother them, it shouldn't bother anyone else. And not only should it not bother anybody else, but anybody who is bothered by it and expresses such discomfort deserves nothing but disdain.

How is the fact of being fat an insult to a fat person? I am a fat person, and if someone called me fat, how is that supposed to bug me? I would consider it descriptive, not insulting.

Of course, I forgot that you're the only fat person in the world and only your reaction matters.

I just can't understand the apparent lack of sensitivity for anybody who doesn't share this perspective - they're bleeding hearts and pearl clutchers and insecure fatties. What made you people so bitter and callous?

There's always so much talk on this board about how it's soooo terrible that the fundy lifestyle is messing these kids up, brainwashing them and creating fanatical zombies. Why does this supposed 'empathy' stop the minute the children are 18, married off and living on their own? If anything, I'm even more sorry for them because they're sorely unprepared for life outside of their little bubble and it must leave them scrambling and overwhelmed.

[slickcat79]

Me. I have had weight issues all my life and I would jostle anyone out of the way to be the first to call Josh Smuggar a fat fuck. He is fat, and he's a fuck, and I don't have a problem with calling a spade a spade.

I'm fine with it too. I don't take any personal offense.

I've never personally snarked on Josh's weight because I think it'd be hypocritical, but I have no problem with other people doing it. This is a snark board, and the fact that people can say what they want is one of the things that make it most appealing to me.

I do think Josh's fast weight gain says something about the Duggar diet in general. The food that Anna is making for him is not particularly different from the food Michelle the J'slaves were making for him, and I think that if portion size were not an issue for them, all of the Duggar kids would be overweight. The older ones do have more active work to do, and the little ones do a lot of running around so that helps keep weight down, but I think if they didn't have 20 other people to share food with they'd all face more weight issues.

We've even seen them address weight on the show...but not with Josh, who seems to have the biggest problem. We know that Josh can and does participate in any activity he wants that can earn him more camera time, so why was Jana being dragged along to Weight Watchers and not Josh? I would not be at all surprised to find a double standard about weight in the ATI world. They have one about everything else, so why not that?

[Boogalou]

Very respectfully, I could not disagree with you more. Is Smuggar not fat? How is the fact of being fat an insult to a fat person? I am a fat person, and if someone called me fat, how is that supposed to bug me? I would consider it descriptive, not insulting. Do fat people not know that they are fat? If not, the the reasons behind the obesity epidemic just became very, very clear. And BTW, the "fuck" is in no way related to the "fat" except by way of alliteration. He could be a slender fuck, also, but he isn't. I know lots of fat people, myself included, who aren't fucks at all.

The gay analogy does not fly. It might if I were calling Josh a gross, quivering, slobby, obese bowl of fatness. which would be roughly the equivalent of yelling "You're gay!" to a nongay person. But I am identifying him as fat, just as I might identify him as gay if I knew he were gay. MIght his feelings be hurt? I gravely doubt that Smuggar gives a rat's ass what I or any of us say about him, but let's just suppose he were insulted by being linked with this objective term. Perhaps then he ought to consider losing a few lbs. in order that the fact of fat no longer applies to him.

Again, being called a bastard is only an insult if you don't know who your parents are. Sheesh and whatever. Sign me, Factually Fat and not so far in denial about it that my feelings would be hurt if peole used that word around me.

**edited to change "nonfat" to "nongay"

Calling someone fat is not merely descriptive, there are all kinds of negative connotations that come along with that word. Saying that calling someone fat is not insulting and only true is similar (these are going to be extreme examples, fat and the following words are not equivelantly rude) to calling a gay person fag, a Chinese person Chink, etc. While they may be technically true, it is also mean. Again, we are a snark board, not a fuzzy happy rainbow in shiny pony land board, so we will sometimes be mean, it is part of the point.

ETA: I re-read this and have just now realized that not everyone is in my head and can fill in the thought between the rest of the post and the last sentence. My point was that I think calling someone fat is mean and not merely descriptive but, because we are a snark board, being mean sometimes happens and is somewhat expected. I just don't try to mask this behind "it's not mean, it's true".

[JesusFightClub]

LOL!

"I just can't understand the apparent lack of sensitivity for anybody who doesn't share this perspective - they're bleeding hearts and pearl clutchers and insecure fatties. What made you people so bitter and callous"

Yeah we're horrible and bitter and callous and whatever. Because it isn't like you joined a snark board. You would never do anything like that.

Right? Right?

[Eponine]

There seem to be an awful lot of people on this thread who are of the impression that if something doesn't bother them, it shouldn't bother anyone else. And not only should it not bother anybody else, but anybody who is bothered by it and expresses such discomfort deserves nothing but disdain.

This is really not it at all. There are things on this board that bother me personally but...I try to avoid them and I certainly would not tell people to stop discussing them.

The problem is, when do we stop discussing or snarking on a topic because it bothers people? Should we stop making jokes about any group of people because it might hurt feelings? Where is the line here - does it start and end at someone's weight?