Williams Abuse Trial - Hana Alemu/Hannah Williams - Merge

[Dysfundamental]

chaotic life, I just finished The Child Catchers, and I had been wanting to thank "Jo" for helping Kathryn Joyce shine light on so many cruelties and injustices. So, thank you so much for your courage in speaking out.

[Palimpsest]

Apparently Carri lost her cool today and got stabby with the prosecution.

Specifically, she is still victim-blaming Hana who she says just caused her own death, and (when asked to look at pictures displaying Hana's weight loss) told the prosecutor that she was looking at a picture of her beautiful family that had been ripped apart by the case. No shit, Sherlock. In actuality your kids were rescued before you could do even more damage than merely killing Hana.

The prosecution went after Carri hard, per Twitter. She snarled back. The press reports are going to be really hard to read tomorrow.

The cynic in me says that this could play either way. The jury "could" see Carri as put upon and persecuted. They "could" buy her crap.

I don't pray (I lost my faith years ago). I hold in the light and I find that meaningful. If you do pray, please do. Pray, light candles, cross your fingers or do whatever floats your particular boat. Do whatever you can to hope that this jury is composed of decent people.

Decent people:

-- Do not spank, switch or hit any child (let alone an adopted child) or use any Pearl-like euphemism for beating the crap out a child..

-- Would not lock a child in a closet (for any infraction, because, hello, child abuse!)

-- Will see that portapotties and freezing showers outside are just NOT acceptable. Ever.

-- Will see the difference in the way Carri and Larry treated Hana and Immanuel from their own children.

-- Will see the victim-blaming for what it is.

-- Do not starve children or give them frozen food and inedible soaking wet sandwiches.

-- Do not summon a Deaf child by stamping on a concrete floor (a concrete floor!) and punish him for not responding. That just broke my heart.

-- Do not tell their children to lie about all of the abuses they perpetrated. (Yes, Carri admitted to this,)

Decent people do not approve the multiple other abuses that may have escaped this list because I'm typing through tears.

If the jury is composed of decent people they will also see Hana as the vulnerable child she was and toss away the questionable evidence that she was older than 16.

I hope the Judge sees this right and instructs a jury of decent people to find Larry and Carri guilty of all charges. Including the Homicide by Abuse.

We will have to wait to see whether justice is done.

[AuntCloud]

I hope the jury sees what we've all been screaming about. Nothing will undo the horrors that Larry+Carri brought about in that house, but the jury has the power to bring karma, who is a royal bitch, to their doorstep a little sooner.

[FreeJosie]

I hope the jury sees what we've all been screaming about. Nothing will undo the horrors that Larry+Carri brought about in that house, but the jury has the power to bring karma, who is a royal bitch, to their doorstep a little sooner.

Juries tend to not like defendants who act hostile on the stand, so hopefully Carri shot herself in the ass with her demeanor. I hope she and Larry receive the harshest sentence that is applicable under the law.

Chaotic Life, you're awesome.

[RachelB]

Testimony from witnesses is over. They're talking about jury instructions now.

From a reporter's (Gina Cole with the local paper) twitter on today's testimony:

Carri, on Hana: "I believe that she unintentionally killed herself."

That is the rankest bullshit. :evil:

[WonderingInWA]

Here is just a local news clip from part of today's testimony by Carri. That woman is evil.

http://www.kirotv.com/news/news/parents ... rri/nZhtt/

[Peas n carrots]

CF, :worship:

I would be feeling more positive about the jury if it there hadn't been a juror that was removed for FALLING ASLEEP. How the fuck one could sleep through something so horrific I have no idea. I don't think I would be able to get a good night's sleep for a long time if I sat in during the trial.

And Carri thinks Hana unintentionally killed herself. The woman hasn't a shred of remorse.

[WonderingInWA]

The fact that Carri says, through tears, "I did the best I knew how to do". Oh, really? After having 7 children of your own, you don't have any better tools in your toolbox for dealing with behavior you don't like? Uh, I don't think so. Spin again, Carri.

[Hane]

You know something, Carri? When you're on trial for torturing and killing your own child, accusing the prosecutor of being "rude" isn't your smartest move.

[WonderingInWA]

You know something, Carri? When you're on trial for torturing and killing your own child, accusing the prosecutor of being "rude" isn't your smartest move.

What I'd like to know is what the prosecutor said just prior to that that triggered her comment. Anyone know?

[starfish]

A couple of interesting tidbits from the FB page were that the oldest son is in the military serving in Korea. Because he probably can't do anything else with that fundie homeschooling background. Possibly he wants to make it as difficult as possible to be prosecuted for assault against Hana.

And that Larry was fired from Boeing because he brought a big hunting knife to work. Supposedly he had been receiving death threats at work, and brought the knife for protection. Boeing has a strict no weapons on campus policy. Someone told on him, and he was escorted out.

[JesusFightClub]

You know something, Carri? When you're on trial for torturing and killing your own child, accusing the prosecutor of being "rude" isn't your smartest move.

Oopsie!

Has the mean howwid fiscal said something you don't like, Carri? Isn't it a shame you can't hose fiscals down with cold water, refuse them food, send your sons out to beat them and then withdraw so you don't have to see the icky sight of them dying? I mean, like you did with your daughter?

[Peas n carrots]

I watched the video bits from the local TV stations and I actually thought the prosecutor was extremely professional, to the point where I was a bit disappointed she didn't go after Carri harder. But I suppose she is thinking why does she have to work so hard when Carri Williams is doing such a good job making herself look like the evil, self absorbed human being she is.

[BravaAmica]

A couple of interesting tidbits from the FB page were that the oldest son is in the military serving in Korea. Because he probably can't do anything else with that fundie homeschooling background. Possibly he wants to make it as difficult as possible to be prosecuted for assault against Hana.

And that Larry was fired from Boeing because he brought a big hunting knife to work. Supposedly he had been receiving death threats at work, and brought the knife for protection. Boeing has a strict no weapons on campus policy. Someone told on him, and he was escorted out.

I think Boeing was looking for an excuse to fire him. I'm so glad Larry provided one.

[splork]

I wonder if her complete lack of remorse and combativeness is calculated to help her husband get off the hook, get back in the house and get the kids back.

The dad did manage to say that he was sorry for Hana's death on the stand, but he did beat her, set up the the elaborate apparatuses they used to humiliate and torture her, and certainly didn't help her when it counted.

His bail was revoked in January because he violated the no contact order with some of his children. The details weren't made public, but in the newspaper story (behind a paywall on the Skagit Valley Herald) the prosecutors argued that he seemed to be framing himself as a martyr to his children. He reportedly wrote them a letter that included some verses from Timothy 2 in which he replaced the Apostle Paul's name with his and Timothy's name with his children's. No one reported the exact verses, but it's not exactly a long book. It boils down to: Paul is a prisoner and is being persecuted (I'm no bible scholar, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think it was for beating his kid to death) and is urging this guy to be loyal to him and keep the faith.

Larry Williams puts on a better public face but he is a sick fuck.

edited for clarity

[starfish]

These two morons just don't get it.

Is anyone from the fundie community standing by them?

[WonderingInWA]

These two morons just don't get it.

Is anyone from the fundie community standing by them?

You can bet if they are, they are staying awfully quiet. They likely don't want to be dragged into any of this as character witnesses.

[RosyDaisy]

They are fucking monsters!

[WonderingInWA]

I'm interested to know how much control the attorneys have over the testimony schedule and the effect that daily stress has on defendants. Does anyone know if this is a courtroom strategy? This trial has been going since the beginning of August, and they finished the testimony this week (and of course by Friday Carri was showing that she really isn't always pleasant). They are now resting until Wednesday, which is a nice break for everyone. But was that done on purpose?

I apologize for my naivety regarding the courtroom process, but it seems likely that stressing the defendants out daily would be one way to wear them down to their core to show who these demons really are.

Anyone?

[JesusFightClub]

I'm interested to know how much control the attorneys have over the testimony schedule and the effect that daily stress has on defendants. Does anyone know if this is a courtroom strategy? This trial has been going since the beginning of August, and they finished the testimony this week (and of course by Friday Carri was showing that she really isn't always pleasant). They are now resting until Wednesday, which is a nice break for everyone. But was that done on purpose?

I apologize for my naivety regarding the courtroom process, but it seems likely that stressing the defendants out daily would be one way to wear them down to their core to show who these demons really are.

Anyone?

I sort of suck when it comes to the US, but I can tell you how Scottish courts run, and I would guess it's similar in America. The basic answer is neither fiscals (prosecutor) or agents (defence) have any control at all over the court scheduling. If they did, then that would render the entire trial open to challenge.

Court scheduling is a. a gigantic pain in your LIVING ARSE (ask me how I know this) and b. down to bureaucrats. You're essentially shepherding your sheriff/judge from trial to trial and also giving them space to do their paperwork. You're not thinking at all about who's in the trial, who the defendants are or anything else. The demands of the law as to how trials should be run and the fear of your sheriff getting a sulky petted lip are paramount. The fiscals and the agents just have to deal (although of course if there are legit reasons to delay that's a different matter).

[Lillybee]

These parents are evil and unlike the Schatz parents, they do not understand that they are evil.

[WonderingInWA]

I sort of suck when it comes to the US, but I can tell you how Scottish courts run, and I would guess it's similar in America. The basic answer is neither fiscals (prosecutor) or agents (defence) have any control at all over the court scheduling. If they did, then that would render the entire trial open to challenge.

Court scheduling is a. a gigantic pain in your LIVING ARSE (ask me how I know this) and b. down to bureaucrats. You're essentially shepherding your sheriff/judge from trial to trial and also giving them space to do their paperwork. You're not thinking at all about who's in the trial, who the defendants are or anything else. The demands of the law as to how trials should be run and the fear of your sheriff getting a sulky petted lip are paramount. The fiscals and the agents just have to deal (although of course if there are legit reasons to delay that's a different matter).

I'm sure it runs the same way here in the US, mostly. Court dates that have to be scheduled are largely due to the availability of time of the court calendar (at least I think). I am not an attorney nor have I ever had to appear in court, but from what I understand the defendant is just given a date of appearance and that's just IT. PERIOD. But I guess what I didn't know was whether more high-profile cases were given a block of time to work with so that the attorneys know how to plan their strategy over the block of time they are scheduled. And for the prosecution, for example, to make sure to schedule the testimony of the defendant(s) non-stop toward the end in order to break them down emotionally.

[JesusFightClub]

I'm sure it runs the same way here in the US, mostly. Court dates that have to be scheduled are largely due to the availability of time of the court calendar (at least I think). I am not an attorney nor have I ever had to appear in court, but from what I understand the defendant is just given a date of appearance and that's just IT. PERIOD. But I guess what I didn't know was whether more high-profile cases were given a block of time to work with so that the attorneys know how to plan their strategy over the block of time they are scheduled. And for the prosecution, for example, to make sure to schedule the testimony of the defendant(s) non-stop toward the end in order to break them down emotionally.

It is a very interesting question and a good point.

How it works in Scotland is that you do know the block of time but fiscals or agents CANNOT choose when people will be called. Anything which looks like biasing the court is open to challenge. High-profile cases have to be treated exactly the same as someone being charged for nicking sausages.

Planning strategy to show that the defendants are basically horrible people would be prejudicing the court here. The defendants are 100 percent innocent until the guilty verdict comes in. Defendants should be treated with respect until the hammer goes down.

Before anyone says I am a weak liberal, I was a witness in a murder trial where I had to sit through the horror of the description of how a loved one died. It was so graphic that I still have nightmares about it. I still hope that the murderer can have a good, positive life on release.

[WonderingInWA]

It is a very interesting question and a good point.

How it works in Scotland is that you do know the block of time but fiscals or agents CANNOT choose when people will be called. Anything which looks like biasing the court is open to challenge. High-profile cases have to be treated exactly the same as someone being charged for nicking sausages.

Planning strategy to show that the defendants are basically horrible people would be prejudicing the court here. The defendants are 100 percent innocent until the guilty verdict comes in. Defendants should be treated with respect until the hammer goes down.

Before anyone says I am a weak liberal, I was a witness in a murder trial where I had to sit through the horror of the description of how a loved one died. It was so graphic that I still have nightmares about it. I still hope that the murderer can have a good, positive life on release.

Thanks for your explanation! I've been called for jury duty only 3 times in my life (and I'm 47!) and only had to show up once and it turned out there were no jurors needed for the day (in Las Vegas, mind you!), so we just sat around all day and then paid $9 for our time and were dismissed. So other than television programs and documentaries, I have no idea how this all works.

[starfish]

The judge/judge's clerk is in charge of the scheduling. The parties can ask for continuances, but it's within the trial judge's discretion to grant or deny them.

This trial is a little unusual in that 1) it's been fairly lengthy and 2) the judge has been lenient about letting the parties call witnesses out of sequence and have numerous days and afternoons off. You never see either of these two things, for example, in a federal criminal trial. Federal judges tend to be intolerant of delays and they are impatient.

Folks on the FB board have commented on how great the trial judge is, but she sure has given both parties a lot of leniency on presenting their case. Part of it may rest with that weird way Washington state has the homicide by abuse statute written up, where the element of being under 16 is included. The state lege needs to go back and rewrite that thing.

I think it probably does show something that the judge appears to be letting this part of the charge proceed to the jury instead of dismissing it and just allowing the lesser charge to proceed. I hope she doesn't waver on that issue. The state has enough to take it to the jury.