Williams Abuse Trial - Hana Alemu/Hannah Williams - Merge

[copper]

I almost started a new thread for this, as it is complete speculation, and this topic until now has mostly been discussion regarding events of the trial.

But I am starting to wonder about the strategy of Larry and Carri, in comparison to the Schatz family. The S family plead guilty and went to jail remorsefully. Larry and Carri each have their own representation. So far the prosecution is painting a bleak picture against Carri, but Larry is not such a dark character. If Carri is shown more to blame than Larry, is there any potential Larry could escape with not much beyond time served, and get the kids back?

I can *almost* see HSLDA rushing to his defense to ensure he gets the kids at a later time. At what point would/could parental rights be revoked?

[AuntCloud]

There's a lot going for some form of biblical punishment here. I wish for a court decision banning the extended Williams family, including L&C's siblings and their descendants, from adopting - internationally, domestically, foster-to-adopt, you name it - for three generations. A family that has zero compassion for a terrified young girl in a foreign country, heck, zero compassion for a weaker human being, obviously has something very wrong that runs very deep. Carri didn't grow her sociopathic tendencies out of thin air, and her children can't be expected to learn normal human compassion or teach it to their own children. A child would be better off anywhere in the world but with these twisted people. I know that the odds of this happening are slim-to-none, but a girl can hope as this story has sent chills down my spine - and I've read numerous holocaust survival stories in my day.

Oh, and a complete re-haul and deep cleansing of the international adoption process is in order.

[Peas n carrots]

There's a lot going for some form of biblical punishment here. I wish for a court decision banning the extended Williams family, including L&C's siblings and their descendants, from adopting - internationally, domestically, foster-to-adopt, you name it - for three generations. A family that has zero compassion for a terrified young girl in a foreign country, heck, zero compassion for a weaker human being, obviously has something very wrong that runs very deep. Carri didn't grow her sociopathic tendencies out of thin air, and her children can't be expected to learn normal human compassion or teach it to their own children. A child would be better off anywhere in the world but with these twisted people. I know that the odds of this happening are slim-to-none, but a girl can hope as this story has sent chills down my spine - and I've read numerous holocaust survival stories in my day.

Oh, and a complete re-haul and deep cleansing of the international adoption process is in order.

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I know it sounds horrible but I don't think there is hope for the bio kids. They were raised so isolated by Carri that I can't imagine being unable to do the damage at this point.

[JesusFightClub]

There's a lot going for some form of biblical punishment here. I wish for a court decision banning the extended Williams family, including L&C's siblings and their descendants, from adopting - internationally, domestically, foster-to-adopt, you name it - for three generations. A family that has zero compassion for a terrified young girl in a foreign country, heck, zero compassion for a weaker human being, obviously has something very wrong that runs very deep. Carri didn't grow her sociopathic tendencies out of thin air, and her children can't be expected to learn normal human compassion or teach it to their own children. A child would be better off anywhere in the world but with these twisted people. I know that the odds of this happening are slim-to-none, but a girl can hope as this story has sent chills down my spine - and I've read numerous holocaust survival stories in my day.

Oh, and a complete re-haul and deep cleansing of the international adoption process is in order.

Totally agree.

My "life verse" is Malachi 4.1, which begins: Surely the day is coming: it will burn like a furnace.

[starfish]

I know it sounds horrible but I don't think there is hope for the bio kids. They were raised so isolated by Carri that I can't imagine being unable to do the damage at this point.

[niagarahauls]

There's a lot going for some form of biblical punishment here. I wish for a court decision banning the extended Williams family, including L&C's siblings and their descendants, from adopting - internationally, domestically, foster-to-adopt, you name it - for three generations. A family that has zero compassion for a terrified young girl in a foreign country, heck, zero compassion for a weaker human being, obviously has something very wrong that runs very deep. Carri didn't grow her sociopathic tendencies out of thin air, and her children can't be expected to learn normal human compassion or teach it to their own children. A child would be better off anywhere in the world but with these twisted people. I know that the odds of this happening are slim-to-none, but a girl can hope as this story has sent chills down my spine - and I've read numerous holocaust survival stories in my day.

Oh, and a complete re-haul and deep cleansing of the international adoption process is in order.

While I have nothing but a strong desire to see both Larry and Carri Williams suffer only the harshest legal punishments I disagree with this opinion that their descendants also deserve to suffer also. The children adopted and biological are all victims of L&C's controlling and abusive parenting.

My father was a criminal. And a terrible father. Yet, I still think I am a good parent.

I do agree the international adoption process needs some rehauling and rehabilitation though.

[Palimpsest]

There's a lot going for some form of biblical punishment here. I wish for a court decision banning the extended Williams family, including L&C's siblings and their descendants, from adopting - internationally, domestically, foster-to-adopt, you name it - for three generations. A family that has zero compassion for a terrified young girl in a foreign country, heck, zero compassion for a weaker human being, obviously has something very wrong that runs very deep. Carri didn't grow her sociopathic tendencies out of thin air, and her children can't be expected to learn normal human compassion or teach it to their own children. A child would be better off anywhere in the world but with these twisted people. I know that the odds of this happening are slim-to-none, but a girl can hope as this story has sent chills down my spine - and I've read numerous holocaust survival stories in my day.

Oh, and a complete re-haul and deep cleansing of the international adoption process is in order.

This is all true. These people should never have been allowed to adopt. The children Larry and Carri abused and trained to abuse were, at the time of the abuse of Hana, still minors. The damage runs deep though.

A complete re-haul of international adoptions is definitely in order. Some "Christian" adoption agencies should be put out of business. Home studies should be improved. And follow-up should be mandated. Decent adoptive parents will welcome follow-up. Abusive adoptive parents will resist.

But lest we think that Hana's murder and the Williams family is an outlier . . .

The Barbour trial after a delay is scheduled for October. It should hit the headlines if the perpetrators do not accept a plea bargain. A "Fundamentalist Christian" Deputy Attorney General and his wife in PA adopted two Ethiopian children. A baby and a six year old boy.

They did not actually succeed in killing them. But not for want of trying . . .

http://triblive.com/news/adminpage/3860 ... z2ckW6XfAI (news source, link not broken)

The little girl is merely blinded in one eye and has paralysis due to multiple skull fractures incurred in her adoptive home. She was 19 month old. Who the fuck beats an infant?

The 6 year old boy nearly died of hypothermia and had urine burns down his legs because he was punished for incontinence by being placed in a cold bathroom in his soiled clothes . . . His admission to the ER saved his adopted sister.

I'll post a separate thread on the Barbours if the case comes to trial.

Hana's death is just the tip of the iceberg.

[starfish]

The defense in the Williams case is trying to throw the jury off on Hana's age. They had a forensic dentist

testify that she was older .

But there is no remorse or sorrow from the Williams' camp. I find that strange. They just don't think they did anything wrong.

[chaotic life]

The defense is arguing that Hana had an eating disorder and H.pylori and killed herself by her refusal to eat.

Thing is, it is possible she may have developed an eating disorder. In the face of that level of abuse and control, there are only two points of courage and defiance she had available to control herself, one was her bathroom/hygiene and the other is eating habits. It is not uncommon for severe abuse survivors to develop both body dysmorphia and full blown eating disorders as a form of self determination and fight. Even if they can prove Hana had both an eating disorder and the infection, both were things normal parents in normal circumstances would seek medical help for. If your choice was soggy, frozen, insufficient caloric foods or go hungry, the hunger pains eventually fade but the chance to prove that you will NEVER fully submit to their abuse and control is often worth forgoing what nasty food options your abuser DOES offer you.

Their defense theory does not prove they didn't kill her. To me, it just adds even MORE guilt to them.

[Peas n carrots]

The defense is arguing that Hana had an eating disorder and H.pylori and killed herself by her refusal to eat.

Thing is, it is possible she may have developed an eating disorder. In the face of that level of abuse and control, there are only two points of courage and defiance she had available to control herself, one was her bathroom/hygiene and the other is eating habits. It is not uncommon for severe abuse survivors to develop both body dysmorphia and full blown eating disorders as a form of self determination and fight. Even if they can prove Hana had both an eating disorder and the infection, both were things normal parents in normal circumstances would seek medical help for. If your choice was soggy, frozen, insufficient caloric foods or go hungry, the hunger pains eventually fade but the chance to prove that you will NEVER fully submit to their abuse and control is often worth forgoing what nasty food options your abuser DOES offer you.

Their defense theory does not prove they didn't kill her. To me, it just adds even MORE guilt to them.

Thank you. I always appreciate your insight CL.

I think you have a great point...caring parents would have TRIED to help their child. Carri Williams suffers from pride in it's most extreme form - this isn't unlike the cases where people try to "cure" their child through prayer.

I'm just so stunned the utter lack of empathy this entire family had towards children in a new country who had gone through significant trauma. I can understand periodically getting very very frustrated as a parent when you can't seem to get through to a child...but that is when you reach out for help. You don't systematically humiliate and torture a human being in response.

CL, in a way I hope you are right that Hana was not eating because she wanted to be able to stand her ground in at least one area. It's just so sad she had to lose her life to be free of these evil people.

[Palimpsest]

Thank you. I always appreciate your insight CL.

I think you have a great point...caring parents would have TRIED to help their child. Carri Williams suffers from pride in it's most extreme form - this isn't unlike the cases where people try to "cure" their child through prayer.

I'm just so stunned the utter lack of empathy this entire family had towards children in a new country who had gone through significant trauma. I can understand periodically getting very very frustrated as a parent when you can't seem to get through to a child...but that is when you reach out for help. You don't systematically humiliate and torture a human being in response.

CL, in a way I hope you are right that Hana was not eating because she wanted to be able to stand her ground in at least one area. It's just so sad she had to lose her life to be free of these evil people.

The lack of empathy for the children and lack of remorse demonstrated by the Williamses are chilling.

I agree, one of the worst things about the Williamses is that they never got help for the things that they are now claiming contributed to her death. It is hardly a good defense and the prosecution will probably wipe the floor with them.

Hana may have had an eating disorder, but I am skeptical. If she was refusing food and losing weight they should have taken her to a doctor! Also, an H. Pylori infection could have made the restriction of food even more exquisite torture for Hana. Untreated H. Pylori can give you gnawing and burning stomach pain and this is temporarily relieved by ingesting food.

[Palimpsest]

FYI, Janet Heimlich is following this trial. She wrote Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment and is a former NPR journalist. She has debated Michael Pearl on air and may be doing a follow-up book and articles.

My speculation, and I'm thinking worst case: the jury will not convict on the homicide by abuse charge because there is doubt about Hana's actual age. I believe she was under 16 but the jury may not, as the defense has produced a forensic dentist who says she is older than 16. Her cousin disappearing (I hope he is OK) also casts doubt on her age.

The jury will convict on all the lesser charges. Although the defense strategy has been to blame Hana and Immanuel for the abuse they suffered, the evidence given by their biological children is damning.

[starfish]

Will the judge be doing the sentencing? This judge had better not give some long-winded speech about how evil the

Williams' actions were, and then give them probation. It needs to be the max.

[Palimpsest]

Will the judge be doing the sentencing? This judge had better not give some long-winded speech about how evil the

Williams' actions were, and then give them probation. It needs to be the max.

This is a very good question. State laws and mandatory sentencing, or sentencing guidelines vary greatly. I wish I knew the answer.

I'm assuming that the judge will do the sentencing and, even if the jury throws out the "Homicide by Abuse" charge because they decide that Hana was over 16, they could (and should) still convict on manslaughter and assault. In theory those charges also carry long sentences. The Williamses will still have "time served" to shorten their sentences.

Is anyone here from WA who could clarify this? Does the judge have a history of leniency? Is there mandatory sentencing in WA? Thanks in advance.

[Marian the Librarian]

Washington State Superior Court judges come up for election every 4 years. The judge in this case, Susan Ward Cook, ran unopposed in 2008 and again in 2012, and thus received what's called a Certificate of Election - i.e., if no one's running against them, they're automatically in for another 4 years.

Cook was admitted to the Washington State Bar in 1985. There's not much information out there about her - once a lawyer becomes a judge, they are no longer rated by the Washington State Bar Association.

Based on my reading of the Revised Code of Washington, Judge Cook will be doing the sentencing in this case.

RCW 2.08.190

Powers of judge in counties of his or her district.

Any judge of the superior court of the state of Washington shall have power, in any county within his or her district: (1) To sign all necessary orders and papers in probate matters pending in any other county in his or her district; (2) to issue restraining orders, and to sign the necessary orders of continuance in actions or proceedings pending in any other county in his or her district; (3) to decide and rule upon all motions, demurrers, issues of fact, or other matters that may have been submitted to him or her in any other county. All such rulings and decisions shall be in writing and shall be filed immediately with the clerk of the proper county: PROVIDED, That nothing herein contained shall authorize the judge to hear any matter outside of the county wherein the cause or proceeding is pending, except by consent of the parties.

Finally, FWIW, here's a news story about another case presided over by Judge Cook (this is the part that gives me hope):

MOUNT VERNON, Wash. (AP) - Michael McGuffey, a former Brownwood, Texas, resident captured in Mexico last fall after eight years on the run following his ex-wife's shooting death, has been sentenced to nearly 27 years in prison.

The 26-year, eight-month sentence from Skagit County Superior Court Judge Susan Cook was the maximum allowed under state sentencing rules. It followed a suggestion by McGuffey that his wife may have provoked her own death.

"I'm not too sure if she wasn't pushing me to do this," McGuffey told a state prison official during a mandatory evaluation before his Wednesday sentencing.

The statement demonstrated that McGuffey lacked remorse, the judge said.

"I am flabbergasted by Mr. McGuffey's statement," she said. "That statement, in and by itself, demonstrates without a doubt that you haven't even come close to grips with what you've done."

McGuffey's words in the presentence hearing contrasted with apologies he gave in the courtroom Wednesday, and with a remorseful guilty plea he signed last month. There, he said he snapped during an argument with his ex-wife, Michele Torres.

Torres, 25, was shot several times in the head, neck and chest as she sat in her car outside the Mount Vernon restaurant where she worked.

Friends and relatives of the victim, Michele Torres, asked the judge for an exceptional sentence. But Cook said that because allegations of spousal abuse were not proven in court and McGuffey had no other criminal history, a sentence outside standard guidelines could not be justified.

McGuffey, 37, was captured in Guadalajara, Mexico in November. He had remarried and was raising an infant son.

Torres had obtained a restraining order against McGuffey weeks before her death. The couple had just divorced after a turbulent seven-year marriage. They had a daughter, Alysha, now 13.

A federal investigation is under way into whether McGuffey's mother aided him while he was a fugitive.

[starfish]

Marian, you magnificent Librarian. That's some great stuff.

To me, 27 years for gunning down a spouse isn't great, but it appears it was the best the Judge could

do under the circumstances. Washington must have some strange sentencing guidelines and possibly weird

appellate courts. Sounds like the judge got that one right, especially if they pled guilty.

But gunning down a spouse after they got a restraining order

and then fleeing to Mexico....I'd like to see her try to exceptional circumstances and go outside the guidelines.

Maybe the prosecutor didn't push for it.

But that' s neither here nor there for poor Hana. We'll see if they get this case wrapped up and whether either or

both of the parents take the stand.

[DarkAnts]

Hannahs age should be a non issue. The parents accepted legal responsibility of her when they adopted her. That means making a reasonable effort to support her mentally, physically and emotionally. If she had an eating disorder then her parents should have taken her to someone that could help. They failed on so many levels.

[SoybeanQueen]

The defense is arguing that Hana had an eating disorder and H.pylori and killed herself by her refusal to eat.

I hope the prosecution has an expert on disordered eating among adoptees ready to talk about how food control issues should have been expected and are not a suicide attempt. I'm curious what sort of prep these people had to do before adoption. Did they ignore it or was there none?

Adoptive parents who don't know that food can be a trouble source for kids from tough backgrounds are willfully ignorant, as far as I'm concerned. Three of my kids have been through or are going through that, so I feel pretty well qualified to be judgmental on this topic.

[AuntCloud]

Niagarahauls, my sincere apologies. Sorry my words have offended you. They were directed specifically to the Williams family, that is a class in itself. If every family that had a member who was less-than-ideal parent or citizen was blanket-banned for adoption, there wouldn't be any adopting families left.

The Williams family, unlike yours, has a chilling dynamics and no one in the family has shown any compassion towards a human being who was being tortured right in their house. That is an entirely different story from most other families, regardless of the criminal record of the parents.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks Marian the Librarian!

That was some excellent information on both the law and the Judge. I hope she throws the book at the Williamses, but first we have to wait on the jury. In the case that you found, it does sound as if she has little patience with blaming the victim.

[Palimpsest]

Hannahs age should be a non issue. The parents accepted legal responsibility of her when they adopted her. That means making a reasonable effort to support her mentally, physically and emotionally. If she had an eating disorder then her parents should have taken her to someone that could help. They failed on so many levels.

While I agree with you that Hana's age at the time of her death should not be an issue, it is a key component of the defense in this case.

There are several charges including homicide by abuse, manslaughter and assault (of Immanuel).

The Homicide by Abuse carries the longest sentence, but Hana's age is key. It is a very weird law, IMO, and seems to assume that a person over the age of 16 is capable of removing themselves from the threat.

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.32.055 (govt site, no need to break link)

RCW 9A.32.055

Homicide by abuse.

(1) A person is guilty of homicide by abuse if, under circumstances manifesting an extreme indifference to human life, the person causes the death of a child or person under sixteen years of age, a developmentally disabled person, or a dependent adult, and the person has previously engaged in a pattern or practice of assault or torture of said child, person under sixteen years of age, developmentally disabled person, or dependent person.

(2) As used in this section, "dependent adult" means a person who, because of physical or mental disability, or because of extreme advanced age, is dependent upon another person to provide the basic necessities of life.

(3) Homicide by abuse is a class A felony.

The defense argument is that Hana's age was misrepresented to the Williamses by the adoption agency and she was older than her represented age.. They are trying to create reasonable doubt in the jury. If they decide that Hana was older than 16, the jury will not be able to convict on that specific charge.

I don't think that the defense has managed to establish reasonable doubt, but I usually assume that juries are very cautious in interpreting the law in general, and over-interpret the meaning of "reasonable doubt" frequently. It doesn't mean a case has to be proven "beyond any doubt whatsoever."

I'm not optimistic that the jury will convict on Homicide by Abuse. They may convict on manslaughter. Unless they are a jury like the Pinellas 12!

[AuntCloud]

But how on earth can you compare poor Hannah to a typical 16 year old?! She was not on par with her peers, had no family or friends or sympathetic teachers thanks to her isolationist paranoid adoptive people (I refuse to use the word "parents"), and her English was probably limited as well (apparently severe, prolonged stress is not conducive to learning) - not to mention her chronic state of starvation. She was not able or expected to act like a healthy 16 yo who can tell their teacher, aunt or doctor that things are not all that peachy at the family home. To me she totally qualifies as a dependent, whatever her age is, as she was never provided with the means to make a difference in her life.

[Palimpsest]

But how on earth can you compare poor Hannah to a typical 16 year old?! She was not on par with her peers, had no family or friends or sympathetic teachers thanks to her isolationist paranoid adoptive people (I refuse to use the word "parents"), and her English was probably limited as well (apparently severe, prolonged stress is not conducive to learning) - not to mention her chronic state of starvation. She was not able or expected to act like a healthy 16 yo who can tell their teacher, aunt or doctor that things are not all that peachy at the family home. To me she totally qualifies as a dependent, whatever her age is, as she was never provided with the means to make a difference in her life.

Sometimes the law is an ass. This law is extremely strange to me and may be WA specific. Usually, a child is a dependent until 18. I agree with all your points but, unless Hana had been determined to be developmentally disabled prior to her murder, they are not relevant to the interpretation of this specific law. Her specific conditions (possible lack of English, isolation, stress, starvation, etc.) just don't count here.* :cry:

Unfortunately, the judge has to instruct the jury in the law as it stands. If they decide that she was older than 16 then they won't be able to convict on this charge.

I honestly don't think that the defense has managed to cast enough doubt on her age. I think the testimony of the doctor from Ethiopia and her cousin's testimony and the entry in the family bible are fairly definitive. Unfortunately the cousin disappeared and that might make the jury doubt him. Even the forensic dentist the defense put on the stand can't say conclusively that Hana was older than 16.

To be clear, I think the jury should convict on Homicide by Abuse. I'm just braced for them chucking out the charge and finding for manslaughter instead. I think juries can be swayed by the defense and the cousin doing a runner was bad.

I hope the prosecution is doing a good job. I think that the defense is weak in this case. On the other hand, I thought OJ and Casey Anthony would get guilty verdicts too. Juries are very unpredictable sometimes.

However, if this jury doesn't find the Williamses guilty of at least manslaughter, torture and assault I will be really angry!

*ETA to clarify: The specific conditions (isolation, starvation, torture, stress, etc . don't count for that specific homicide charge. They absolutely do count when it comes to the jury's consideration of the manslaughter charges. We just have to hope that the prosecution is hammering all those issues home for the jury and that the judge considers them during sentencing.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The judge may need to issue a legal ruling on the age issue.

Before her death, everyone believed that she was under 16. As a result, Hana's ability to leave the family was pretty much non-existent. They had legal control over her. Regardless of biological age, if you do not have documents to show that you are 16, you can't legally leave home without facing the possibility of police returning you, obtain a place to live, get a job, open a bank account, get credit, get welfare, etc.

Also, the law refers to "dependent adults" as well. She was clearly dependent. If they really want to say that she was suffering from mental or physical illnesses, that itself may define her as a dependent adult.

I don't see any way that the defense can justify the lack of medical care. There isn't a competent child expert anywhere who would suggest that weight loss and incontinence are issues which should not be medically investigated, and that they should be handled through harsh discipline only. These weren't stupid people who became parents by accident. They adopted. They knowingly took on a responsibility.

[Palimpsest]

The judge may need to issue a legal ruling on the age issue.

Before her death, everyone believed that she was under 16. As a result, Hana's ability to leave the family was pretty much non-existent. They had legal control over her. Regardless of biological age, if you do not have documents to show that you are 16, you can't legally leave home without facing the possibility of police returning you, obtain a place to live, get a job, open a bank account, get credit, get welfare, etc.

Also, the law refers to "dependent adults" as well. She was clearly dependent. If they really want to say that she was suffering from mental or physical illnesses, that itself may define her as a dependent adult.

I don't see any way that the defense can justify the lack of medical care. There isn't a competent child expert anywhere who would suggest that weight loss and incontinence are issues which should not be medically investigated, and that they should be handled through harsh discipline only. These weren't stupid people who became parents by accident. They adopted. They knowingly took on a responsibility.

2xx1xy1JD As you are a lawyer, questions: Why didn't the judge issue a legal ruling on the age issue much earlier if Hana was so clearly a dependent? Can the judge issue a ruling this late in the trial that Hana would be covered under the Vulnerable Adult Statute? I hope so.

An awful lot of time during the trial has been wasted on the age question with witnesses flown in from overseas, forensic dentists, etc.

It strikes me as a problem with the legislation. I quoted above . http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.32.055

" (2) As used in this section, "dependent adult" means a person who, because of physical or mental disability, or because of extreme advanced age, is dependent upon another person to provide the basic necessities of life."

My interpretation of that is that the Homicide by Abuse charge only covers children under 15, and vulnerable adults (physically or mentally disabled) or over 60.

Here is the WA definition of Vulnerable Adult in more detail:

"A vulnerable adult is defined by law as:

a person 60 years of age or older who lacks the functional, physical, or mental ability to care for him or herself;

an adult with a developmental disability per 71A.10.020;

an adult with a legal guardian per 11.88 RCW;

an adult living in a long-term care facility (an adult family home, boarding home or nursing home);

an adult living in their own or family’s home receiving services from an agency or contracted individual provider; or

an adult self-directing their care per law (74.39.050 RCW)"

I'd really like the jury to convict on the Homicide by Abuse charge, but the longer this trial goes the lower my optimism.

I think the defense strategy stinks, but they don't have much of a leg to stand on. Larry and Carri are abusers and have no excuse for what they did. However they try to twist all of this, they should have got help if they were having problems with the adoptions. It was definitely available to them.