Williams Abuse Trial - Hana Alemu/Hannah Williams - Merge

[2xx1xy1JD]

Yes, I'm a lawyer, but not in Washington state so can't comment too much on the legal details in this case. The Homicide by Abuse offense doesn't exist in Canada.

Her age is a disputed fact, so some evidence is needed, but I think that the judge will need to rule, or at least give some direction in the address to the jury, on how to deal with it. Is it enough that everyone thought she was under 15 and treated her that way while she was alive? Or, does the prosecution need to prove all elements of the offense - including her biological age - beyond a reasonable doubt?

I'd certainly hope that even if Homicide by Abuse isn't on the table, there is a manslaughter conviction.

[niagarahauls]

Niagarahauls, my sincere apologies. Sorry my words have offended you. They were directed specifically to the Williams family, that is a class in itself. If every family that had a member who was less-than-ideal parent or citizen was blanket-banned for adoption, there wouldn't be any adopting families left.

The Williams family, unlike yours, has a chilling dynamics and no one in the family has shown any compassion towards a human being who was being tortured right in their house. That is an entirely different story from most other families, regardless of the criminal record of the parents.

Oh no reason to apologize! But thank you anyway. And I completely agree with your assessment of the Williams family dynamic.

[sonja_kat]

Hana was often "disciplined" for "stealing" food according to the affidavit and the testimonies of the bio kids. I am not sure how the eating disorder angle is going to hold water. I hope the prosecution does not let this slide. The child was given inedible food and systematically starved.

[SoybeanQueen]

Hana was often "disciplined" for "stealing" food according to the affidavit and the testimonies of the bio kids. I am not sure how the eating disorder angle is going to hold water. I hope the prosecution does not let this slide. The child was given inedible food and systematically starved.

And again, if they had done any research at all, they should have known that discipline of the style they used would not likely be effective against "stealing" food for a child who was previously or currently neglectfully hungry. That food hoarding urge is essentially hard-wired into the brain when kids experience chronic hunger, even very early in life.

One of my sons is particularly affected by this type of food issue, and he was extremely young when the neglect happened. He doesn't even remember it consciously, but it still controls a lot of his behavior about food. Weirdly, what seems to be working best is allowing him to collect seeds from fruits and other edible plants and planting them. Having it in the back of his mind that he could grow his own food is really helping him relax about hunger fears. I didn't try beating the fear out of him, but I'm certain that wouldn't have worked. :smh:

[Palimpsest]

Yes, I'm a lawyer, but not in Washington state so can't comment too much on the legal details in this case. The Homicide by Abuse offense doesn't exist in Canada.

Her age is a disputed fact, so some evidence is needed, but I think that the judge will need to rule, or at least give some direction in the address to the jury, on how to deal with it. Is it enough that everyone thought she was under 15 and treated her that way while she was alive? Or, does the prosecution need to prove all elements of the offense - including her biological age - beyond a reasonable doubt?

I'd certainly hope that even if Homicide by Abuse isn't on the table, there is a manslaughter conviction.

Thanks for your response. I wish FJ had a member who is a litigator in WA to comment on this too

As I said, the under 16 requirement is very strange to me. If I lived in WA I'd be trying to get an amendment filed to address some of the issues with the legislation as it pertains to children like Hana. Although her situation was extreme, there must be many potential victims of Homicide by Abuse who are also unable to defend themselves or remove themselves from abusive homes.

However, it seems that the age is crucial to the Homicide by Abuse charge as the legislation now stands, which may explain why the judge has not issued a ruling before. There must have been hearings about it because the body was exhumed. If the judge thought that her actual age was not relevant the exhumation would not have been permitted, I think.

I'm anticipating that the judge will tell the jury that they must decide beyond a reasonable doubt that Hana was under 16 at the time of her death to convict on the Homicide by Abuse charge.

To the bolded, I agree. Manslaughter would be better than nothing, but I fear it is up to the jury on the Homicide charge.

[Palimpsest]

And again, if they had done any research at all, they should have known that discipline of the style they used would not likely be effective against "stealing" food for a child who was previously or currently neglectfully hungry. That food hoarding urge is essentially hard-wired into the brain when kids experience chronic hunger, even very early in life.

One of my sons is particularly affected by this type of food issue, and he was extremely young when the neglect happened. He doesn't even remember it consciously, but it still controls a lot of his behavior about food. Weirdly, what seems to be working best is allowing him to collect seeds from fruits and other edible plants and planting them. Having it in the back of his mind that he could grow his own food is really helping him relax about hunger fears. I didn't try beating the fear out of him, but I'm certain that wouldn't have worked. :smh:

I hope the jury has half the brains and insight shown by FJ posters. One of the frustrating things about following this trial is that the lack of media coverage doesn't give much of an idea of how well the Prosecution is performing.

They have had expert witnesses, but we don't know whether the food issues common to neglected children have been covered in detail. The torture expert witness seemed fairly good. There is also fragile skull syndrome, where Hana and Immanuel would have been even more negatively affected by the abusive methods of discipline than the bio-children.

We also don't know how effective the Prosecutors are on cross examination. I hope Larry and Carri do take the stand in their own defense. A decent Prosecutor could rip their stories apart and expose their lack of remorse to the jury easily.

[sonja_kat]

And again, if they had done any research at all, they should have known that discipline of the style they used would not likely be effective against "stealing" food for a child who was previously or currently neglectfully hungry. That food hoarding urge is essentially hard-wired into the brain when kids experience chronic hunger, even very early in life.

One of my sons is particularly affected by this type of food issue, and he was extremely young when the neglect happened. He doesn't even remember it consciously, but it still controls a lot of his behavior about food. Weirdly, what seems to be working best is allowing him to collect seeds from fruits and other edible plants and planting them. Having it in the back of his mind that he could grow his own food is really helping him relax about hunger fears. I didn't try beating the fear out of him, but I'm certain that wouldn't have worked. :smh:

Testimony from an orphanage official in Ethiopia suggests that Hana was reasonable well nourished. Those monsters withheld already rationed food as a form of punishment for minor infractions such as not making their beads properly. The adopted children were given inedible food such as wet sandwiches and frozen vegetables as punishment as well. They were routinely sent to bed, or in Hana's case a closet or barn outside, with no food at all. So I think we are talking about two different issues here. Hana was caught "stealing" food at night because she was hungry; I don't think she was hoarding. Towards the end of her life she was locked in the closet to prevent her from going into the kitchen. Hana and Immanuel were "stealing" food because of hunger here in the USA and not because of any trauma that they encountered in their home country.

As someone mentioned earlier in the thread, Carri's total disdain for this child kicked into full gear when Hana started her menstrual cycle. She was not prepared to deal with a child with Hepatitis and she was deadly afraid of this child spreading the disease, so she treated her like an animal. Hana was not allowed to sit with the others, stand too close to them, or use the same bathing/toilet facilities. The child bathed outside with a hose and used a Por O Potty in the barn that was never serviced. Carri's plan, as told to a member of her knitting circle, was to kick Hana out at 18. What evil people these Williamses are!!!

Sorry about the rant, but this whole situation just pisses me off, and I feel like the prosecution is missing too many golden opportunities at exposing the lies of these two freaks and their defense team.

[Palimpsest]

Sonja_cat, rant on!

I agree. Actually, I don't think that Hana had an eating disorder or was hoarding food either. These possibilities have been raised as part of the defense strategy, and they are effective because they do affect some children who have survived neglect and starvation. I hope the jury took note of the testimony of the orphanage official and the doctor who pointed out that Hana and Immanuel were well nourished at Kidane.

Regarding the prosecution, Light of day stories has an interesting new post. She demolishes the testimony of the forensic dentist called by the defense. Here is the link: lightofdaystories.wordpress.com/category/hanna-williams/

I hope the prosecution also brought up the studies Maureen mentioned.

[JesusFightClub]

I totally agree with your rant. Who has a female child and expects them not to menstruate? (The hepatitis thing aside, women have periods, soz).

The idea that Hana was disgusting or dirty for having hepatitis and periods is utterly bizarre to me. Hepatitis is an illness and one just has to deal. Periods are natural and not gross or disgusting. A child with hepatitis who had begun her menstrual cycle would need the same loving help all girls need when they have their first period, to understand what's going on and to be reassured it's all OK. The issues with hepatitis should be dealt with in a way that wouldn't embarrass her or make her uncomfortable.

I don't know what it is about this story (aside from its tragic end) but it really gets to me that it was Hana menstruating which kicked the whole thing off. I live in a one-bedroom flat (on and off) and have various issues which mean I am not suitable to be a parent. But when I heard Hana's story I was literally thinking "If only she'd lived with me. It would be kind of precarious but she'd always have a bed, enough to eat and no shaming for her bodily functions." A stupid idea, but I was sorrowful enough that I thought of it.

I just wish there had been someone out there for her who could have given her a half-decent life.

[Palimpsest]

Well, damn.

I just checked Gina Cole's twitter (reporter covering the trial). I was afraid that the cousin's testimony would be thrown out.

I'm assuming it is OK to quote the twitter of a reporter, so here goes.

Dan King â€@DanKingImages 1h

The defense is asking for the homicide by neglect to be dismissed! #Williamstrial pic.twitter.com/73kHPtCc25

Gina Cole â€@Gina_SVH 1h

Judge instructs jury to disregard all testimony from Hana's biological cousin. My story from today will explain why. #Williamstrial

Gina Cole â€@Gina_SVH 4h

Lots of crying in the courtroom (Carri Williams and audience members) as Hana's autopsy photos are again shown to the jury. #Williamstrial

elisa hahn â€@ElisaHahnK5 4h

Carri Williams, Hana's adoptive mother, breaks down in court seeing photos of Hana's body. Others become emotional too. #Williamstrial

Gina Cole â€@Gina_SVH 4h

Pediatrician who specializes in child abuse cases says Hana wasn't just malnourished; she was starved. #Williamstrial

[chaotic life]

Hana's age is a red hearing they have drug out because they HAVE NO DEFENSE FOR WHAT THEY DID.

Here's my problem with it. When you adopt a child, if you truly believe that the child's age is inaccurate, then you have the ability to bring that concern up when you finalize the child's adoption in the US. While I detest the practice, it is actually rather common especially in fundie circles, who are motived to get the children to adulthood and out of dependency faster versus those who put kids into public school and want to buy those children more time to grow and catch up, to legally increase the child's age at the time they finalize the US adoption.

It was done to my newest son, and honestly I would age him back down to the age he was declared when he was in the orphanage except HE will not allow that now.

If the Williams really thought Hana was older than her documents indicated, then they had YEARS to correct her legal age and demonstrate that she was older than they originally thought she was. They NEVER brought up her age as an issue until they were charged with a crime that is age specific. Larry and Carri Williams believed Hana to be 13. Hana believed Hana to be 13. Legally, she is declared to be 13. Her LEGAL age should stand and they should not be allowed to turn this into a legal technicality to distract from what they did to her while they believed she was 13!

As for food issues, I have gotten into fights with some adoptive families over the food issues. Children who have been deprived and gone hunger have food issues. That's just the reality of the legacy for them. The ONLY way you help a child heal and eliminate those food insecurities is to give them control over food, with ways to know there is ALWAYS food available. I had one who for years would eat until he would literally puke. He was the only one I ever even considered controlling his food, only because I didn't know how to get him to stop before he overate and puked.

However, I realized this was an emotional response to food. So, I appealed to his emotions. I used the smallest plate in the house and piled it high with food, but that amount of food was usually 1/3-1/2 what I thought he needed to truly feel full. That allowed him to get second, thirds and fourths before he would reach the puke point. There was no control placed over his eating. He was still fully in control but his allowed him to feel more secure and fuller before his body was actually overfilled. He STILL has the ability to overeat and vomit. However, he is consciously aware of that tendency. When he gets really emotional, he wants to overeat until he pukes. So, we talk about this is his emotions and whether he wants to feed his emotions to help him feel better, while risking puking. Sometimes he slows down on eat, but sometimes he goes ahead and does it knowing what he is doing. It fills his soul even though he knows he's eating those emotions. He's super skinny so it doesn't hurt him at all, and he knows what it is so he makes a deliberate choice to do it or not. When his brother died last year, he did it on purpose twice. Most of the time, he doesn't like puking and won't do it when he realizes what he is doing.

When our newest son came home, I had a social worker evaluating us (we had to have a safety evaluation done by CPS due to the circumstances under which he came into our home and our getting the state and lawyers involved against the first adoptive family). The social worker was terrified that he had food insecurity behaviors due to his neglect and abuse and that they might not be getting met properly. She asked me if he had shown any hoarding or food insecurity behaviors. I told her not anymore. We tried keep a backpack stocked with non-perisables and it wasn't helping him. So, we put a dorm fridge into his bedroom and we keep it stocked.

It's so EASY to address these food insecurity issues. It involves understanding that yes your food budget IS going to go up, and a LOT initially. But, giving them control over their food and keeping food stocked and available to these kids WILL calm the problem down. The more you control their eating and food, the more they will be insecure and push back. I was abused as a kid and food was and is a HUGE trigger for me. I hate, hate, hate seeing people perpetuate that on these kids when they need to know they are safe and will NOT be hungry again. Instead, Hana was starved to death. She wasn't safe. Withholding and controlling her food, while she was forced to watch the Williams family eat well in front of her, was a special kind of torture they reserved for a girl who NEVER deserved it.

[Palimpsest]

Chaotic Life, your posts here are very valuable and show excellent insight.

However, I want to reiterate: Hana's age is only relevant to getting a conviction on the Homicide by Abuse charge. As it carries a greater penalty than the manslaughter charge, the defense is fighting tooth and nail to prove that she was older than 16.

I agree that the Williamses have no defense and should be found guilty on all charges. Sadly, the reality is that they may get away with convictions on manslaughter and assault. This is the way trials go whether we like it or not. Larry may even get off scot-free if they throw Carri under the bus for all counts.

It is also all very well to point out that food issues are common in previously neglected and abused children. This is what the defense is doing and you are supporting this viewpoint because of your own experiences.

I'd like to point out something else though. We have no evidence whatsoever that either Hana or Immanuel were starved, neglected and abused prior to their adoption by the Williamses. Please don't let your own experiences make you leap to the conclusion that Hana had an eating disorder or hoarded food simply because she came from Ethiopia or was adopted from an orphanage.

Certainly they were surrendered by their family of origin, but not all children surrendered to orphanages are abused by their families. Also, not all orphanages are places of horror and deprivation. Kidane orphanage actually has a very good reputation and both children apparently thrived in the care they had there. They were not neglected or starved. They were given some education.

Unfortunately for Hana and Immanuel they probably would have done better if they had stayed in the orphanage.

Look, the international adoption movement wants the world to believe that all African children would be better off adopted into "First World" families. Immanuel is living proof that this depends on the family. Some adoptive families do a great job, but the Williamses did not. And the abuse they handed out is sadly not unique.

Hana's death proves that she would have been better off staying at the orphanage, cared for, fed, loved by staff, and given better education than that provided by Larry and Carri. She died under Larry and Carri's abuse.

I am just as enraged as you over this. I'm also following a similar trial, the Barbours, as I mentioned above. Hana's death is not an isolated incident.

Larry and Carri Williams deliberately starved and tortured that child to death. They didn't care how old she was. They had no intention of getting her help.

You are right on the red herring of her age, but don't fall for the second red herring of her supposed "eating disorder" or the third red herring of her "disobedience."

[Black Aliss]

Today's Seattle Times has an article that at least mentions that Carri and Larry Williams were following the disciplinary advice of the Pearls.

http://blogs.seattletimes.com/opinionnw ... one-wrong/

[wild little fox]

I totally agree with your rant. Who has a female child and expects them not to menstruate? (The hepatitis thing aside, women have periods, soz).

The idea that Hana was disgusting or dirty for having hepatitis and periods is utterly bizarre to me. Hepatitis is an illness and one just has to deal. Periods are natural and not gross or disgusting. A child with hepatitis who had begun her menstrual cycle would need the same loving help all girls need when they have their first period, to understand what's going on and to be reassured it's all OK. The issues with hepatitis should be dealt with in a way that wouldn't embarrass her or make her uncomfortable.

I don't know what it is about this story (aside from its tragic end) but it really gets to me that it was Hana menstruating which kicked the whole thing off. I live in a one-bedroom flat (on and off) and have various issues which mean I am not suitable to be a parent. But when I heard Hana's story I was literally thinking "If only she'd lived with me. It would be kind of precarious but she'd always have a bed, enough to eat and no shaming for her bodily functions." A stupid idea, but I was sorrowful enough that I thought of it.

I just wish there had been someone out there for her who could have given her a half-decent life.

QFT. I didn't have children for much the same reason and I have often thought that despite my issues I would have made a good home for Hanna and the other children who have met the same kind of abusive situation. She would have someone who loved and accepted her unconditionally and would help her get her feet under her so she could blossom into the woman she was born to be. It makes me sad.

[bpobst]

I have very little knowledge of eating disorders in general so hopefully someone more educated can explain a few things to me to help me understand. I do understand that if a child has experienced food insecurity in early age that they are more likely to develop an eating disorder such as what was described above. But since we have no evidence that Hana had experienced anything like that before she arrived in the US, would it be possible for her to have developed these tendencies if she had food insecurity issues AFTER being adopted?

I don't know how long the food deprivation/inedibility would have been in her case. Did it start soon after her adoption or after the menstruation issues? I would imagine that Hana and Immanuel were experiencing quite a bit of abuse before she began menstruating as it just seems to me that someone capable of that amount of abuse would have been doing so long-term/from the beginning and not just after a particular situation.

It just seems to me that no matter when the food issues started in her life, that they could have caused her to try to steal or hoard food. If I was being starved to death, I would try to get food anyway possible as well. On the flip-side I can also understand if she were to become anorexic because I can understand her wanting to try to have something in her life to control. I can also realize that she could have been feeling extremely depressed, suicidal, and hopeless and perhaps that was her way of trying to speed up the process of her eventual death if she thought she had no other way to escape the torture.

So would it be possible for her to have had some sort of eating "disorder" if the food issues started after the adoption? How long would that type of food insecurity/abuse have had to happen before it could have resulted in these types of issues? Would it make a difference if she first started having food troubles in late childhood or early teens and not from the time she was very young? What if the food insecurity only lasts a relatively short amount of time and then returns to normal? Could that possibly still trigger "disordered" eating?

*I put disordered in quotes because I do not know if she actually had any of these types of alleged issues and also because I don't consider stealing food to be abnormal when you are starving to death.

[2xx1xy1JD]

The judge seems to have a shred of decency and common sense. She has refused to grant the motions to dismiss. According to her, even with the evidence of the cousin thrown out, there is enough other evidence that a jury could find that Hana was under 16.

http://lightofdaystories.wordpress.com/ ... -williams/

[WonderingInWA]

I am watching this case closely as it happened near where I live. It is all so sickening. I hope this couple goes to prison for a long, long time.

[sonja_kat]

Larry testified today that he feels "responsible" and "ashamed". I feel something sinister about him.

[chaotic life]

Even good orphanages tend to have less food available than a normal family life, regardless of whether that child is in a family in the US or in their home country.

Two of my sons were in excellent orphanages, where they were well cared for and well fed compared to other options. However, they still were not fed as much as they needed, they were fed on a strict schedule and not allowed to get food in between serving times if they were hungry and both came home with food insecurities because of those inherent institutional issues. My younger son was in one of the BEST orphanages in his country. His orphanage was hand picked by the Ministry because of his medical conditions and specific concerns of what orphanage could possible manage his medical condition, in a country that has done a LOT of reforms and consequently most of their adoptions are now domestic and NOT foreign because they are doing so much better with caring for their children. His birthfamily loved him dearly, placed him in the orphanage because keeping him was going to cost him his life due to his medical issues, and called monthly until they were informed that he was matched with an American family and would get the medical care he desperately needed.

I don't come at this with the assumption that all orphanages are bad, that they abuse and neglect children and that children are always better off with American families. However, there are institutional issues inherent in even the best orphanages and food insecurity is one of those institutional issues. It is very unlikely that Hana and Immanuel suffered anything close to what they suffered at the hands of the Williams in their orphanage and birth homes. However, they would have suffered from insufficient food, food shortages, possibly some neglect and grief from losing both family and country. These are normal things that international adoptees go through, not because anyone intended to leave them suffering but because you don't end up in an orphanage and adopted internationally because there is NO shortages in your life prior.

Part of the horror is that Hana and Immanuel were both placed first in the orphanage and then into an international adoption so that they could have a BETTER life, and in their case they were far, FAR better off had they not been placed for adoption. The intention of their first families and their orphanage was to provide them with a better life though. They all live with the guilt that their good intentions left those babies suffering and in Hana's case led to her death. That was trust the Williams defied when they were entrusted with those children, not that I think they give a whit, but there is tremendous trust placed by first families, birth countries and domestic orphanages when they place these children.

I can stand and honestly tell all of those people who entrusted me to make a good life for my children that I have done EXACTLY what I was entrusted to do. The Williams killed her instead of doing what they promised to do.

I understand the issue that they are going to argue on her age as a defense and as a matter of legal record. My point is that because Larry and Carri never ONCE argued or showed any disagreement with her age prior to her death, I personally think they should not be allowed to argue it now. They never tried to claim she was over 16 and accepted her legal age until she died. Now that it matters, they want to argue it. However, Hana had a legal age, one she believed herself to be and one that couple believed her to be. How they treated Hana and what options Hana had were dependent not upon biology but legality, and thus were dependent upon her LEGAL age. That is the age that should be required to stand in this trial, and that age was well below 16.

[Alice_Fraggle]

chaotic life - I always enjoy your insights into these things.

I agree that Hana's age shouldn't matter at this point, and I truly hope that the jury decides that she's under 16 (I'd love it if they said they think she was 15 years 11 months and 29 days old - just to spite that stupid law), and that her "parents" get the book thrown at them. This whole case is disgusting.

Count me among those that don't have / don't want kids, but who would have gladly taken these two beautiful kids in so that they had a great home life.

Quick question - how long before her death did Hana start her period? If it was semi-recently before her death couldn't they say that she must be under a certain age based on when she got her first period? I'm not a doctor (clearly LOL), but don't most girls start their period before age 16, except in rare cases?

[2xx1xy1JD]

JFC, I understand how you feel.

Right after my first miscarriage, a teen who did some work in my office confided in me about some horrific abuse that she had experienced in her family. She was really a great kid, even with all that she'd been through, and part of me just wanted to adopt her and take her home.

Part of my job also involved reading local cases of kids who had been starved or abused to death. I remember a few cases in which kids received horrific punishments for soiling themselves or throwing up, and it developed into a vicious cycle. At the time, I also had a baby, and those cases just broke my heart. My reaction was to do the exact opposite with my kids - I'd worry until they got chubby, and when my kids puked or had accidents, I remember looking into their eyes and seeing how they obviously felt sick, sad and scared. No, it's not fun to have a toddler puke up 13 fish sticks into your hair, but you suck it up and deal with it when you see those eyes, when you're haunted by those other cases, and when you realize that it's up to you to make that small, scared child feel better.

[chaotic life]

Girls can start their period at all kinds of ages. I believe averages are 11-15 in the US. I believe Hana was 11 when she started, approximately 18 months after homecoming and two years prior to her death. The same time frame that Carrie stopped feeding her properly and taking her to the doctor.

[splork]

The dad testified today.

He said that the night Hana died was the first time he had seen her without clothes on and he was shocked at how thin she was. Not sure how he missed the shaved head or missed how bony she was getting while he was beating her and locking her in the closet all those times, but there you go. He testified that he and his wife argued about the treatment of the children and that it was Carri's idea to get the portable toilet and lock the kids in the closet. He just went along with it. He also testified that Hana told him she was 16 back in 2010.

I've found myself relaxing (? I don't know if that's the right word? ) a little bit now that it's time for the defense to present their case. I can't see these kind of flimsy justifications and the parents pointing fingers at each other carrying a lot of weight with the jury.

Then the oldest kid testified. It was just a few minutes to establish that he has heard his parents disagree about discipline. Here's the detail of the day that horrified me the most. He has joined the Army. This kid often switched the other children (including Hana while she was lying on the ground out in the rain the day she died) and participated in spoiling their food and that kind of abuse. I get that he wasn't charged with a crime and it's got to be near impossible for the military to look into someone's background that thoroughly but someone who has prior experience helping torture a child to death was allowed to join the Army.

edited: I'm wrong. I originally stated that the kid who testified today got some kind of immunity. This isn't the case, he wasn't questioned about his participation in the abuse (unlike his brothers) and therefore didn't need any guarantee of protection.

[Marian the Librarian]

komonews.com

Larry Williams: "Possibly I could have done something to stop it."

No shit, Sherlock.

[WonderingInWA]

And if she hadn't died, they'd still be doing it.