Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[DomWackTroll]

Jordan is among the smuggest of the smug, given all his good fortune (born to a successful entrepreneur, born male, married to a good-looking woman who shares his .... interests) and he's intriguingly metrosexual in appearance, demeanor and voice. A train wreck in the "I can't look away" sense of train wreck.

He also has a few decent skills at movie-making, none of which were ever recognized by the SAICFF (San Antonio International Christian Film Festival), which prompted Jordan and his cute li'l posse (mainly his wife's brothers and his friends like Evil Jakey G. That's not the guy's real name. I know DomWackTroll can provide it, luvya DWT!)....

Anyhow, somewhere along the line, apparently figuring that nothing cinematic was going to receive Doug's accolade, Jordan and his posse made a cute short about whether or not Doug should wear facial hair. My guess - and it is nothing more than a guess - is that Doug didn't see the humor, and that Jordan saw a side of Doug that took quite a bit of the bloom off the rose, so to speak.

I don't see that Jordan missed that much. Winners of the SAICFF prize had to sign away distribution rights to their winning film (see the link in the thread about Doug Phillips MO) and he and Melissa Lee, Beautifully got featured prominently in the Titanic video. As well, Doug's recent focus on food and healthy eating prompted ML,B to make a healthy cooking DVD which the couple still market.

Jordan's dad is the creator of the Brain Typing method which pro sports teams pay big money for, to figure out which prospective athlete will provide the biggest return in competition. His father-in-law is, IIRC, a well-employed chemical engineer with some kind of ordination (Mr. Thomas married Jordan and Meliss).

Unless there was a great mutual attraction, I can't imagine Doug sniffing around any of those two families, comely though they all might be. Old Mr. Niednagel well may have outranked Doug economically in Doug's best of times, and Mr. Thomas -- well, check out a photo of him, there are numerous on niednagel.com. The man's appearance fairly screams Puritan preacher/enforcer.

That would be eternal bachelor Nathaniel Darnell, who has made no comment aside from some cryptic scriptural references. He used to really look like Jake Gyllanhal (sp?)-- hence the nickname Evil Jake G.-- but now not so much.

facebook.com/nathanieldarnell.jd?fref=ts

[DomWackTroll]

Well, look at this post from Petey's newly public FB page.

Anyone else not finding it a mere coincidence that suddenly once Peter decides, with his Pops Scotty to start going after Dougie's lost disgruntled ilk to speak out about Dougie, his FB is magically public?

Creepy, like he's trying to lure Peter back in.

ETA: Peter "Liked" it, so I wonder what that means. Was it before Peter found out, or was he just dazed and confused and didn't know what else to do. The fact that he left no reply to Doug makes me think the latter.

ETA: Wait, he did leave a reply: "Wow! How utterly beautiful and heart warming! Sure missed being with you this year. So proud of Faith! ...and you!" Guess he didn't know yet.

[SamuraiKatz]

Well, look at this post from Petey's newly public FB page.

Anyone else not finding it a mere coincidence that suddenly once Peter decides, with his Pops Scotty to start going after Dougie's lost disgruntled ilk to speak out about Dougie, his FB is magically public?

So this is going to turn into a Patriarchal Facebook war? That.is.so.manly. Christmas has come a little early....

And taking note of the missed you....February post date and "It's Time to Say Goodbye" theme, could this confrontation between Sippy and Doug taken place months ago?

[hoipolloi]

A former VF intern (visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2004/08/838/), Nathan Barnes weighs in on Peter's FB page:

Nathan Barnes: Praying for you and your dear family, my friend. I am incredibly grateful for your faithful friendship both to me and to our mutual friend. You did the right thing even when it was incredibly difficult, and I pray that God will comfort your heart and continue to bring about His perfect will.

[DomWackTroll]

Someone named Jonathan Kayser reams Petey a new one:

"I may agree with your words, but let me be clear: There is no nobility in calling a man to repentance. It is simply too tragic. Proceed with the truth. Knock it off with the drama. There's no hero in this situation. So stop trying to be one."

"Knock it off with the drama"? Who the hell do you think his drama coach was? Sheesh!

[SamuraiKatz]

A former VF intern (visionforum.com/news/blogs/doug/default.aspx?path=/2004/08/838/), Nathan Barnes weighs in on Peter's FB page:

And one again not one word of support for Hero. Atleast the family got amention.

[DomWackTroll]

A commenter on Jen's last post says:

"In an email my wife received this morning from Vision Forum it stated this near the bottom: 'By placing an order you will be participating in our inventory liquidation sale. This means great prices for you as we liquidate our entire remaining inventory. Due to the nature of this sale, all purchases are final and returns will no longer be accepted. This is your last opportunity to buy our books, CDs, DVDs, and toys for you and your family, so get them before they’re gone!'"

[WonderingInWA]

That would be eternal bachelor Nathaniel Darnell, who has made no comment aside from some cryptic scriptural references. He used to really look like Jake Gyllanhal (sp?)-- hence the nickname Evil Jake G.-- but now not so much.

facebook.com/nathanieldarnell.jd?fref=ts

I am interested to know why Nathaniel Darnell has (so far) flown under the radar on this situation, as well. He was a prominent leg-humper in Dougie's royal court and was one of 5 interns that graduated that inaugural year of the program in 2003 (Nathaniel Darnell, Peter Bradrick, Nathaniel Cordz, Caleb Hayden, and Tim Horn). He went on to become a perpetual bachelor and an attorney. I'm guessing he's got some knowledge but is trying to figure out which side of the fence he's on (in more ways than one). Darnell has a website called perseveronews.com but so far, nothing posted specifically about Dougie.

[mnwnwmwmn]

This much I know... Doug was out of BCA leadership in February. Peter was at the History of America conference in July, so obviously he was still on speaking terms with Doug at that point. However, the young lady in question was NOT at said conference, even though she's been cast as "Native American Girl" in many of Doug's productions up to this point. None of the Brown/Bradrick crew have been spotted in any of the Greece pics from late September. The sequence of events lends credibility to the T.W. Eston claim that Bradrick intervened only when it became obvious that the Phillips ship was sinking, and Bradrick had no intention of going down with it. Doug's character is such that he never would have resigned on his own accord just to spend time with family. His sin had been discovered by February, but nobody fled until recently. The story they're telling about immediately confronting him about his sins just doesn't fit the timeline. Also, I'm convinced that Eston has to be either Jen's ex husband, or Jen herself. How else could this fundie insider have just appeared out of nowhere, and immediately get approval privileges on Jen's blog?

Re: Darnell... He's been trying to shake off the Phillips connection for a while now. I don't think that they were on the best of terms, even before this fiasco. My guess is he will continue to distance himself as far as possible from Phillips.

Sorry if this is rambling. I'm in dire need of a nap.

[nelliebelle1197]

No, as far as I know, the Niednagel/Thomas clan is pretty clean (scandal wise). I think Jordan is just doing the humble "we're all sinners" thing so that he can go on begging for details.

I don't have Jordan's blog handy but google. Bizarro VF micro-verse. Jordan is an entitled pompous dick and probably gets the most hurtsies 'cause he is JORDAN!

[hoipolloi]

This much I know... Doug was out of BCA leadership in February. Peter was at the History of America conference in July, so obviously he was still on speaking terms with Doug at that point. However, the young lady in question was NOT at said conference, even though she's been cast as "Native American Girl" in many of Doug's productions up to this point. None of the Brown/Bradrick crew have been spotted in any of the Greece pics from late September. The sequence of events lends credibility to the T.W. Eston claim that Bradrick intervened only when it became obvious that the Phillips ship was sinking, and Bradrick had no intention of going down with it. Doug's character is such that he never would have resigned on his own accord just to spend time with family. His sin had been discovered by February, but nobody fled until recently. The story they're telling about immediately confronting him about his sins just doesn't fit the timeline. Also, I'm convinced that Eston has to be either Jen's ex husband, or Jen herself. How else could this fundie insider have just appeared out of nowhere, and immediately get approval privileges on Jen's blog?

Re: Darnell... He's been trying to shake off the Phillips connection for a while now. I don't think that they were on the best of terms, even before this fiasco. My guess is he will continue to distance himself as far as possible from Phillips.

Sorry if this is rambling. I'm in dire need of a nap.

Good summary. Nathaniel Darnell left VF & Doug some years ago and returned to his home state of GA where he works for a similar outfit called American Vision: americanvision.org/author/nathaniel/

Just guessing here but we probably shouldn't look for someone who works at a "Biblical Worldview Ministry" to call out & renounce Doug Phillips Is A Tool.

I say again: these people are all fucking assholes.

ETA: Will be interesting to see T.W. Eston's timeline, promised for publication this coming week.

[DomWackTroll]

This much I know... Doug was out of BCA leadership in February. Peter was at the History of America conference in July, so obviously he was still on speaking terms with Doug at that point. However, the young lady in question was NOT at said conference, even though she's been cast as "Native American Girl" in many of Doug's productions up to this point. None of the Brown/Bradrick crew have been spotted in any of the Greece pics from late September. The sequence of events lends credibility to the T.W. Eston claim that Bradrick intervened only when it became obvious that the Phillips ship was sinking, and Bradrick had no intention of going down with it. Doug's character is such that he never would have resigned on his own accord just to spend time with family. His sin had been discovered by February, but nobody fled until recently. The story they're telling about immediately confronting him about his sins just doesn't fit the timeline. Also, I'm convinced that Eston has to be either Jen's ex husband, or Jen herself. How else could this fundie insider have just appeared out of nowhere, and immediately get approval privileges on Jen's blog?

Re: Darnell... He's been trying to shake off the Phillips connection for a while now. I don't think that they were on the best of terms, even before this fiasco. My guess is he will continue to distance himself as far as possible from Phillips.

Sorry if this is rambling. I'm in dire need of a nap.

I totally agree. Something was long ago torn asunder, though I da'st not speculate! (See how I'm talking all Doug-like there?)

[J'ean Skirt]

From Peter's blog bold emphasis mine...

Maybe it's me and my jaded life experiences, but I'm speculating that based on the bolded language, Douggie knocked up one of his victims, and left her to wear the scarlet letter ("turn them out like so much garbage"). There's also the possibility that he provided no ("weak drowning in icy water"). He, perhaps, kept mum about what he had be up to, even denying it when confronted by Peter and pals. That's my guess. Just my speculation based on Peter's post and the other "sources."

Edited to add quote script.

This really pisses me off. Hundreds of women and children were LOCKED BELOW DECKS on the Titanic and died. (Plus, men did push into life boats in front of women and children.) Where was the care and concern for those third class passengers? Oh. Right. They were lower class, they didn't count.

Yeah, just like Dougie the tool. :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :pull-hair:

[DomWackTroll]

Eric "Boomer'" Blomgren not at all happy about Barbara Roberts' advice that Peter study the true nature of evil: "Wow Barbara Roberts ... gloat much?"

Translation: "When Scott and Voddie speak the truth about Doug it's not gloating, but when you speak the truth about Doug it is gloating because vagina."

[Drunkenbutterfly]

Good summary. Nathaniel Darnell left VF & Doug some years ago and returned to his home state of GA where he works for a similar outfit called American Vision: americanvision.org/author/nathaniel/

IIRC, KISA weighed in on this...they had a fallout or something. :think:

ETA: Can't find the post. Didn't KISA do some scrubbing? I'm pretty sure that he answered a question that he would be surprised to see ND's book in the next years VF's catalogue. I think he was speculating on this and had no real evidence.

[DomWackTroll]

KISA said this about Darnell on October 15, 2011:

"Ego. He's too good for anyone but the royalty of the movement, but he's not the kind of guy they're looking for. He's just a bit immature and full of himself. I said it more poetically and carefully in another post, but from what everyone says, this is his biggest problem. Also, I wasn't around when he 'retired' from Vision Forum, but I have my suspicions it was a less than peaceful separation, based on some hushed tones about his moving on. I look forward to the new VF catalog. If Nathaniel's movie isn't included in the products, it'll almost guarantee I'm right."

http://freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic. ... &start=300

Well, what KISA said may be perfectly true, but I think there's more to it than just "ego."

[nelliebelle1197]

This much I know... Doug was out of BCA leadership in February. Peter was at the History of America conference in July, so obviously he was still on speaking terms with Doug at that point. However, the young lady in question was NOT at said conference, even though she's been cast as "Native American Girl" in many of Doug's productions up to this point. None of the Brown/Bradrick crew have been spotted in any of the Greece pics from late September. The sequence of events lends credibility to the T.W. Eston claim that Bradrick intervened only when it became obvious that the Phillips ship was sinking, and Bradrick had no intention of going down with it. Doug's character is such that he never would have resigned on his own accord just to spend time with family. His sin had been discovered by February, but nobody fled until recently. The story they're telling about immediately confronting him about his sins just doesn't fit the timeline. Also, I'm convinced that Eston has to be either Jen's ex husband, or Jen herself. How else could this fundie insider have just appeared out of nowhere, and immediately get approval privileges on Jen's blog?

Re: Darnell... He's been trying to shake off the Phillips connection for a while now. I don't think that they were on the best of terms, even before this fiasco. My guess is he will continue to distance himself as far as possible from Phillips.

Sorry if this is rambling. I'm in dire need of a nap.

Eston is not Jen. He is either her ex or a member of the church. He is not from "out of nowhere" - that has always been obvious. Piecing together a timeline by conflating revelation of the affair to VF'ers like BRADRICK!! and Doug stepping down may be a false trail. As I understand it, most of the VF'ers live far from San Antonio and are not part of this church. The few elders at the church could have easily kept the resignation from the public and even the church body in SA by just keeping quiet and not announcing anything other than Doug is stepping back here to step up over there. The secrecy would explain the hurt and betrayal exhibited by BRADRICK! and others.

[Drunkenbutterfly]

KISA said this about Darnell on October 15, 2011:

"Ego. He's too good for anyone but the royalty of the movement, but he's not the kind of guy they're looking for. He's just a bit immature and full of himself. I said it more poetically and carefully in another post, but from what everyone says, this is his biggest problem. Also, I wasn't around when he 'retired' from Vision Forum, but I have my suspicions it was a less than peaceful separation, based on some hushed tones about his moving on. I look forward to the new VF catalog. If Nathaniel's movie isn't included in the products, it'll almost guarantee I'm right."

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=3942&start=300

Well, what KISA said may be perfectly true, but I think there's more to it than just "ego."

:worship: Thanks!

[Palimpsest]

[Eston is not Jen. He is either her ex or a member of the church. He is not from "out of nowhere" - that has always been obvious. Piecing together a timeline by conflating revelation of the affair to VF'ers like BRADRICK!! and Doug stepping down may be a false trail. As I understand it, most of the VF'ers live far from San Antonio and are not part of this church. The few elders at the church could have easily kept the resignation from the public and even the church body in SA by just keeping quiet and not announcing anything other than Doug is stepping back here to step up over there. The secrecy would explain the hurt and betrayal exhibited by BRADRICK! and others.

I agree with the bolded re. the false trail potential. Unless we take Eston's word for it we don't know precisely when and why Doug stepped down from Boerne or whether the reason was discussed with more than a few people. It could have been early 2013. We also don't know when Bradrick's supposed confrontation took place. Or when the Board finally clamped down and forced Doug out of VFM. We do know that W.T. Eston and Bradrick waited to come out of the woodwork until AFTER Doug officially "confessed" and the Board took over at VFM.

Two things:

1. Who is Bob Renaud and was he in the party that Bradrick claims confronted Doug? This is what he seems to be implying. From Bradrick's Facebook comments on Nov. 28.

Bob Renaud This is why we did what we did brother. We were not going to sit by and allow the weak to be victimized. I still believe in this doctrine even if my mentor and friend rejected it.

2. Who is T.W. Eston? As far as I'm concerned he is "out of nowhere" and I'm still not sure he isn't full of shit. He actually isn't posting much that I couldn't figure out on my own when it comes down to it. He is not on my usual list of VF suspects. Of course, he may be a local church member and another person excommunicated by VF. Martin Selbrede seemed to know who he was, but he hasn't impressed me much so far. He is largely telling me things I already suspected were wrong about the running of VFM and VFI. :shrug:

As for this sort of thing in the comments on Jensgems:

Donald Says:

November 28, 2013 at 2:40 pm

Perhaps I missed it somewhere in the OP. What or where is the source that announces the closing of VF.inc? As much as I’d like to think this is the case I’d prefer to hear it from a credible source. Link, or it didn’t happen.

Reply

T.W. Eston Says:

November 28, 2013 at 3:31 pm

Sources? Insiders.

Credible source? If not us then just who might that be?

Yeah, T.W. that tells me nothing about your credibility. Why should I take your word for anything. Jen vouches for you, but that is not necessarily a good reference as I think she has reason for bias (good reason, but still) and is a conservative nut-case in her own right. He may well be Mark Epstein under a pseudonym, likewise biased and unreliable. But why would he need to use a false name? That seems silly.

Which is not to say that I won't keep reading T.W. Eston in case he comes up with things that other people can independently verify under their own real names, or the whole mess goes to court. 8-)

Oh, and a third thing, re. Bradrick's whining about wolves in sheep's clothing! I pointed out a couple of pages back (and T.W. later agreed with me) that the Board of VFM as a 501©(3) is also in fairly deep shit if Doug was cooking the books. Scott Brown is on the Board.

Honestly reading the reactions of VF followers to this is nauseating because of the total lack of concern for the true victim(s) of Doug Phillips. The Scotts and Bradricks were/are collaborators, fellow travellers, enablers, and rats running away from the sinking ship. Bradrick crying victim? Oh give me a break! I don't consider Scott Brown or Bradrick to be in need of any sympathy.

[WonderingInWA]

And maybe that's why Scott Brown has remained rather silent, at least in writing (the sermon is really all we have heard from him). He may be in line to take a hit by being on the board at VFM and he has to keep his mouth shut until what is ultimately coming out actually does. Another reason why I think he's employed Bradrick! to be his spokesperson, why Bradrick! opened his FB page to the public. It's Scott's voice through his little red-headed minion.

[Elinor]

Wait... named their children after Robin Hood characters? Need more info! :violence-bowandarrow: :violence-duel:

Their children are named William Locksley, Philip Huntington, and Marian Katharina.

[thoughtful]

Bob Renaud is listed as "Vision Forum Staff," or Doug's "personal assistant" in several things I found. He wrote some articles for VF.

visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/sen_john_mccains_position_on_a.aspx

visionforumministries.org/issues/rule_of_law/empathy_impartiality_and_justi.aspx

puritanboard.com/f34/expose-doug-phillips-22056/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vision-Forum-Ch ... 1184685605

And here he is with the Morecrafts, in several pictures:

becky-gracenotes.blogspot.com/2009/06/empathy-impartiality-and-justice-vision.html

I think this is his LinkedIn profile:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-renaud/10/a7/913

And:

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Bob-Renaud/220720992

[hoipolloi]

Unless we take Eston's word for it we don't know precisely when and why Doug stepped down from Boerne or whether the reason was discussed with more than a few people. It could have been early 2013. We also don't know when Bradrick's supposed confrontation took place. Or when the Board finally clamped down and forced Doug out of VFM. We do know that W.T. Eston and Bradrick waited to come out of the woodwork until AFTER Doug officially "confessed" and the Board took over at VFM.

The following Q & A appeared on Voddie Baucham Ministries FB page:

Voddie, do you know if Doug Phillips has stepped down as elder at his church?

Like · Reply · November 2 at 10:01am via mobile

Voddie Baucham Ministries: As I said, that happened months ago. That, however, I do not believe that was not related to this issue.

Like · November 2 at 4:40pm

Voddie Baucham Ministries:One is a ministry, the other is a 'for-profit' corporation. That's why they have different names.

Like · Reply · November 1 at 1:59pm

Voddie Baucham Ministries I don't know what's going to happen with The Vision Forum. I just read the letter like everyone else. I had heard about him stepping down at his church prior to this, but didn't know why. In fact, I still don't know if that was connected to this.

Like · November 1 at 2:03pm

2. Who is T.W. Eston? As far as I'm concerned he is "out of nowhere" and I'm still not sure he isn't full of shit. He actually isn't posting much that I couldn't figure out on my own when it comes down to it. He is not on my usual list of VF suspects. Of course, he may be a local church member and another person excommunicated by VF. Martin Selbrede seemed to know who he was, but he hasn't impressed me much so far. He is largely telling me things I already suspected were wrong about the running of VFM and VFI. :shrug:

Best guess here is that Eston = Mark Epstein, Jen's former husband. He goes by another name now which appeared here in one of the earlier threads but escapes me at the moment. If Eston = Mark, that certainly explains the intimate knowledge, the steady flood of information, Eston's claims of knowing Doug Phillips Is A Tool over 7 years ago, etc.

[Palimpsest]

Bob Renaud is listed as "Vision Forum Staff," or Doug's "personal assistant" in several things I found. He wrote some articles for VF.

visionforumministries.org/issues/ballot_box/sen_john_mccains_position_on_a.aspx

visionforumministries.org/issues/rule_of_law/empathy_impartiality_and_justi.aspx

puritanboard.com/f34/expose-doug-phillips-22056/

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vision-Forum-Ch ... 1184685605

And here he is with the Morecrafts, in several pictures:

becky-gracenotes.blogspot.com/2009/06/empathy-impartiality-and-justice-vision.html

I think this is his LinkedIn profile:

http://www.linkedin.com/pub/robert-renaud/10/a7/913

And:

http://www.zoominfo.com/p/Bob-Renaud/220720992

Good sleuthing. Yep, that's him according to both linked in and his FB he is in MO and working for his family business. So when will he spill the beans?

[Palimpsest]

The following Q & A appeared on Voddie Baucham Ministries FB page:

Best guess here is that Eston = Mark Epstein, Jen's former husband. He goes by another name now which appeared here in one of the earlier threads but escapes me at the moment. If Eston = Mark, that certainly explains the intimate knowledge, the steady flood of information, Eston's claims of knowing Doug Phillips Is A Tool over 7 years ago, etc.

Yes, Voddie did independently verify Doug stepping down as Elder, but not precisely when. And certainly not why.

I think there is a 99.99% chance that T.W. Eston is Mark Epstein and, yes, that would explain the knowledge. What doesn't make sense, and in fact seems sleazy, is that if "T.W." is Mark Epstein he isn't just flat out saying so.

Instead we have "mystery man" T.W. Eston calling out Chalcedon for being mean to Jen, and verifying her story -- when it is his story too. Silly.