Ding Dong, VF is Dead! And Doug Phillips is a Tool - Part 3

[uber frau]

Is Jeff Brower any relation to Ben and Emily Brower (BE Brower blog)?

[Marian the Librarian]

Jordan Niednagel is getting downright handslappy!

At this point I believe these posts are only adding to the confusion, and may not be the best way of going about this. We have a man who has publicly repented, and admitted his wrong, which indeed the board of Vision Forum has also concurred (according to my understanding, and I have some other ties). Unless your posts take a drastic turn in nature, we can only conclude that you believe them all to be in error, and that Mr. Phillips has not sufficiently repented. I hope I'm wrong. At any rate, I question the wisdom of what you are doing here on Facebook in this manner, though believe me I am not here to defend VF's or Mr. Phillip's innocence. Far from it (believe me, I above most anyone could desire to cast the first stone). But, to drag this out as you are doing ... I don't see the wisdom in it. Since you have decided to go public on this public platform, I suggest you address these issues in your next post. If the board of VF needs to be publicly called out, do so. If not, much more needs to be explained, and I think as soon as possible. Anyway, praying for you all and for wisdom.

Funny, how he doesn't seem to express any concerns for the victim...

[WonderingInWA]

Jordan Niednagel is getting downright handslappy!

Funny, how he doesn't seem to express any concerns for the victim...

Yep, there's quite a pattern here, isn't there?

[fuglyexfundy]

From Peter's blog bold emphasis mine...

When those who champion “women and children first†hide behind smooth words instead of “suffering for the weakâ€... When the strong take of the weak, and then turn them out like so much garbage… When the strong seize the lifeboats and leave the weak drowning in the icy water… it leaves no choice for men of God other than to rise up and oppose them when they discover the truth. Woe to those that do not.

Maybe it's me and my jaded life experiences, but I'm speculating that based on the bolded language, Douggie knocked up one of his victims, and left her to wear the scarlet letter ("turn them out like so much garbage"). There's also the possibility that he provided no ("weak drowning in icy water"). He, perhaps, kept mum about what he had be up to, even denying it when confronted by Peter and pals. That's my guess. Just my speculation based on Peter's post and the other "sources."

Edited to add quote script.

[WonderingInWA]

From Peter's blog bold emphasis mine...

Maybe it's me and my jaded life experiences, but I'm speculating that based on the bolded language, Douggie knocked up one of his victims, and left her to wear the scarlet letter ("turn them out like so much garbage"). There's also the possibility that he provided no ("weak drowning in icy water"). He, perhaps, kept mum about what he had be up to, even denying it when confronted by Peter and pals. That's my guess. Just my speculation based on Peter's post and the other "sources."

Edited to add quote script.

I've wondered about that, too. Maybe there was a baby and it took a long time to figure out it was his?

Apologize to the victim, Doug Phillips Who is a Tool.

[Cleopatra7]

On Jan's Gems, Easton said that Doug committed multiple affairs and other unspecified crimes. Was Hero the only nanny or were there others? I can't see the Phillips having just one servant.

[WonderingInWA]

On Jan's Gems, Easton said that Doug committed multiple affairs and other unspecified crimes. Was Hero the only nanny or were there others? I can't see the Phillips having just one servant.

And why isn't Jeff Brower (whoever he is) bombing Jen's Gems? Maybe he's spending tonight reading up on all this there. Hmmm.

[hoipolloi]

Is Jeff Brower any relation to Ben and Emily Brower (BE Brower blog)?

Judging from Jeff's FB friends list, yes.

[DomWackTroll]

Jordan Niednagel is getting downright handslappy!

Funny, how he doesn't seem to express any concerns for the victim...

Jordan is loving this. He's salivating for the next "dainty morsel."

[uber frau]

Judging from Jeff's FB friends list, yes.

I've also worked out that he's closely affiliated with the group I grew up in. He probably knows my dad. Good lord, there's only two degrees of separation between anyone in the Reformed fundie world, even if you're on a completely different continent. Arggh.

[fuglyexfundy]

TW (Mark Epstein?) strikes again at Jen's Gem's "Vision Forum Inc. to Permenantly Close..." bold emphasis mine.

T.W. Eston Says:

November 29, 2013 at 9:03 am

...The entire time Doug was bringing us his messages of hope, he was living a lie, and the lie is much bigger than just the one sex scandal. I’ve known for seven years that Doug Phillips was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and I had suspicions of it for much longer. I knew Doug personally. We were friends. Doug Phillips has many former friends. But my definition of friendship is much different from Doug’s. Sociopaths define friendship on strategic terms — on what they can get out of it — how they can use people. Once your usefulness is used up, you’re discarded. Thankfully I was able to see this early on in my relationship with Doug and I didn’t allow him to use me for long. Many others haven’t been so fortunate.

Stay tuned for more, Angela. By Monday or Tuesday I anticipate posting a story that will likely be a bombshell.

Now according to Jen's story, she joined BCA in 2000. http://jensgemsdotwordpress.com/2006/12 ... ct-church/

Sometime in early 2005, she and her family were booted. http://jensgemsdotwordpress.com/category/jens-story-08/

If you start at 2006 when Jen and Mark's interactions with Doug are likely over....I'm just guessing that Mark Epstein in probably TW.

Maybe he'll reveal his identity in hopefully Monday or Tuesday's episode.

[thoughtful]

Yep, there's quite a pattern here, isn't there?

None of them seem to care about her/them.

Peter comes sort of close, in all of this blather, but still seems to be writing more as if Doug personally betrayed him, and using it as yet another excuse to talk about what Brave Manly Men must do.

[WonderingInWA]

None of them seem to care about her/them.

Peter comes sort of close, in all of this blather, but still seems to be writing more as if Doug personally betrayed him, and using it as yet another excuse to talk about what Brave Manly Men must do.

Yep, he wants to come out of this the brave manly man hero, showing that he's got enough backbone to shun his sinning mentor (see how brave and manly I am?).

[fuglyexfundy]

None of them seem to care about her/them.

Peter comes sort of close, in all of this blather, but still seems to be writing more as if Doug personally betrayed him, and using it as yet another excuse to talk about what Brave Manly Men must do.

And as a parent, I wonder how good it feels Peter's dad to have one of his kids turn to Doug as a "spiritual father" as opposed to his real one. I remember reading in one of Peter's other posts that he pretty much dedicated his life at the time to serving Doug's Vision and dreams. Betrayal maybe equals regret for time wasted. Perhaps he's feeling hurt that he fell for a con artist.

[DomWackTroll]

TW (Mark Epstein?) strikes again at Jen's Gem's "Vision Forum Inc. to Permenantly Close..." bold emphasis mine.

Now according to Jen's story, she joined BCA in 2000. http://jensgemsdotwordpress.com/2006/12 ... ct-church/

Sometime in early 2005, she and her family were booted. http://jensgemsdotwordpress.com/category/jens-story-08/

If you start at 2006 when Jen and Mark's interactions with Doug are likely over....I'm just guessing that Mark Epstein in probably TW.

Maybe he'll reveal his identity in hopefully Monday or Tuesday's episode.

I have no doubt that it's Epstein-- none. Jeez, what does his rabidly right-wing second wife think of him still being close enough to Jen that he can approve comments on her blog? Who knows, but I do know all three of them are batshit crazy, so...

[WonderingInWA]

And as a parent, I wonder how good it feels Peter's dad to have one of his kids turn to Doug as a "spiritual father" as opposed to his real one. I remember reading in one of Peter's other posts that he pretty much dedicated his life at the time to serving Doug's Vision and dreams. Betrayal maybe equals regret for time wasted. Perhaps he's feeling hurt that he fell for a con artist.

Petey's dad shipped him off to VF for the internship program. It was the first year the program was offered, so his dad must have been following Dougie for awhile anyway. And then he shipped off Petey's younger brother, Phillip, after that. So, he obviously drank Dougie's koolaid for a long time, too.

[uber frau]

None of them seem to care about her/them.

Peter comes sort of close, in all of this blather, but still seems to be writing more as if Doug personally betrayed him, and using it as yet another excuse to talk about what Brave Manly Men must do.

I don't see Petey's blather as anything other than an exercise in throwing Doug under a bus. He's merely pointing out the ways Doug is a hypocrite. I don't think he's showing any concern for the woman/victim in this affair, just pointing out that Dougie said X (protect your daughters from all kinds of things, including sexual impropriety) and did the opposite (found a daughter who was supposedly 'protected' and had a sexually inappropriate 'affair' -in Peter's eye's I doubt he sees it as any more than an affair- with her.)

[hoipolloi]

Peter Bradrick doesn't give a shit about the woman mentioned in Doug Phillips' statements or any other victims of VF or Doug's abuse over the years.

Peter Bradrick's posts are all about and only about Peter. That's it.

His supporters -- as revealed by their comments on his FB page -- actually understand this which is why none of them give a shit about the victim of Doug's sexual abuse.

They are all fucking assholes.

[WonderingInWA]

Peter Bradrick doesn't give a shit about the woman mentioned in Doug Phillips' statements or any other victims of VF or Doug's abuse over the years.

Peter Bradrick's posts are all about and only about Peter. That's it.

His supporters -- as revealed by their comments on his FB page -- actually understand this which is why none of them give a shit about the victim of Doug's sexual abuse.

They are all fucking assholes.

Right. He's trying to spin himself as a hero (what a surprise). That he was manly enough to stand up to his mentor. So it's really about marketing himself.

[hoipolloi]

Re: hot water. If you scroll down Peter's timeline to November 2011, there's a photo of pots with steaming water & the following comment from Peter:

This is how we get the bathwater hot in our house on chilly mornings! 1920s un-insulated ramshackle farmhouse + 20 gal hot water heater + wood heat + creative frugality = fantastic daily adventures. And we’re lovin’ it! Did I mention that I have an unusually rare and amazing wife?! — with Kelly Bradrick.

[WonderingInWA]

Re: hot water. If you scroll down Peter's timeline to November 2011, there's a photo of pots with steaming water & the following comment from Peter:

And BINGO! There's the post about the water heater! Good find! So I was wrong, they did have a water heater, but not one big enough for a family of 7.

[JellyHope]

I have no idea how this business venture failed.....

FIrc4UFoS_E

1. Thank God it's Christian men coming to save me. I don't know if I could be saved by a Jew or Muslim or atheist.

2. Can't. Stop. Looking. At. The. Ears.

3. Oh good, it's called 'Bradrick'. I'm glad your emergency response team isn't under the name of something easy to remember, like 'emergency relief' or 'call us for help' or 'disaster r us.'

4. I'll definitely look to you for the national news on what's happening. Not any of the big 24 hour news stations, because they are controlled by the ebil gubernant.

[nelliebelle1197]

James McDonald published an article on his church's website with a very interesting title:

providencecpc.org/2013/11/14/how-to-emotionally-affair-proof-your-marriage/

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think something like "what about that women and children first stuff, eh, Doug?" was the first thing I posted when this first came out (well, after posting George Takei saying "oh, my!").

I don't know if I should be thinking "see, even his former worshippers see the irony" or "eww, eww, eww -- I think like Peter Bradrick -- eww!"

I hope he is referring to the strong taking advantage of the weak in the way that Doug should not have used his power to take advantage of "Hero" in what seems like an obviously uneven pairing-a powerful rich man sleeping with a woman who was part of his cult and strongly worshipped him, who is a lot younger than him and was likely underage when it started. Or that he shouldn't have taken advantage of Beall by cheating on her, and should be putting women and children first by not breaking up his family and causing such emotional distress to his wife and kids.

Im guessing he is implying that he was not happy when he found out and instantly told Doug he was being a toolish tool and that anyone who knew about this and didn't do anything about it is in the wrong. Whether it happened like that or not, we don't know. Probably not, cause surely he must have known about this before it came out, Im sure it is perfectly obvious considering it had been going on for so many years.

Unless he feels he is the weak party in this. Which he is not. He is just a man, a friend of Doug's. Yes, it hurts when a friend turns out to be someone they are not and does awful things, but the real victims here are the ones Doug personally did something to.

Bob Renaud This is why we did what we did brother. We were not going to sit by and allow the weak to be victimized. I still believe in this doctrine even if my mentor and friend rejected it.

Sounds like the Tool is losing his followers very fast now.

It disgusts fundies as much as it disgusts us to find out what Doug did. Probably for different reasons though. I hope he is left with nobody and spends the rest of his life as a mere mortal who isn't worshipped anymore. And has to do a normal job with no money for dressing up and going on vacation. His hazardous journeys will be limited to dealing with heathens at the supermarket and getting rid of the cockroaches infesting his kitchen.

Doug needs to tell all now (but not name "Hero", she is fine just as she is under a pseudonym), and give a proper apology to everyone he has wronged or upset by his toolish actions. That means everyone. "Hero", Beall, all of the kids, the employees of VF who are probably going to lose their jobs when it inevitably shuts (and their families too, hope they don't end up sharing two chicken breasts between ten kids), all of his followers who bought from him under the impression that he was a good, honest Christian man who loved families. Anyone who was directly affected by any of the other toolish things he has done but not admitted to yet. Any other women who he has made to handle his anaconda.

...The entire time Doug was bringing us his messages of hope, he was living a lie, and the lie is much bigger than just the one sex scandal. I’ve known for seven years that Doug Phillips was a wolf in sheep’s clothing, and I had suspicions of it for much longer. I knew Doug personally. We were friends. Doug Phillips has many former friends. But my definition of friendship is much different from Doug’s. Sociopaths define friendship on strategic terms — on what they can get out of it — how they can use people. Once your usefulness is used up, you’re discarded. Thankfully I was able to see this early on in my relationship with Doug and I didn’t allow him to use me for long. Many others haven’t been so fortunate.

Doug does sound like a sociopath who uses others. Hes not such a family man, he just used that impression for the money.

Much bigger than one sex scandal? Do tell. How many other women are we talking about here? Or men? Are there men too? And what else? Lying, stealing, using VF money to pay off women he has wronged (whether it is "I will give you $500 if you keep quiet and don't tell anyone", paying for abortions for women he has gotten pregnant, cause why not, every other value he promoted was just an act, going out on expensive dates with women and buying them gifts using VF money...), using VF money to pay for silly things for himself?

[browngrl]

Jordan Niednagel is getting downright handslappy!

Funny, how he doesn't seem to express any concerns for the victim...

I'm not familiar with J. Niednagel, why would he "above most anyone could desire to cast the first stone". Could a relative of his or he himself been involved in the latest scandal or perhaps a prior scandal?