Sparkling Adventures in Child Neglect: Vive La France

[ladyaudley]

Gotta love how the Sparkling One is the only one wearing shoes...

Schools are not oblivious to the idea of learner participation, self-determination and choice. Sure, the implementation isn't always there to the level that it should be, but as a teacher I find it incredibly insulting that the unschoolers have this attitude that all normal schools follow the "knowledge deposit" approach, as Paulo Freire describes it. Yes, that used to be the approach. Yes, some teachers still swear by it. But in many countries, education authorities are trying their hardest to work individual choice into a system that was never meant for it in the first place. There are many things wrong with Scotland's new Curriculum for Excellence, for example, but you cannot fault it for its rather noble intentions in the way of including and consulting the learners in and on their own learning experiences.

/personal rant

. A friend of mine told me a few weeks ago that her daughter (11 years) can choose between languages in school. She decided to learn italian instead of english. Well, italian is a lovely language, but no english?? For YEARS? Of course she might not need it in the future - but what IF she needs it and starts to learn much later than everybody else? This concept is absolutely bs. :snooty:

edited to break the link correct (hopefully)

that depends on how it is done. Do they live in an english-speaking country? If so, then the 11-year old should have both conversational and academic fluency in english to a certain degree already and being in an immersion programme will actually be beneficial for her. Studies about that include http://www.scilt.org.uk/Portals/24/Libr ... ichton.pdf, http://strathprints.strath.ac.uk/26270/ and in Johnson, R.K. & Swain, M. (1997). Immersion education: International perspectives. Just google scholar "language immersion programmes". / teacher hat

[August]

Anna, even with my kids at school it's barely economic for me to work, if I need to utilise after school care. If I had three kids I would be working to pay for care.

I guess I'm in the minority, but I'm really not a fan of unschooling. I'm not saying it doesn't work for some kids, but I don't think it could work for very many for their entire schooling careers. One year? Two? Awesome, that's a really cool idea. But for the entire time they're supposed to be learning very necessary aspects of functioning as an adult? Count me out. I guess I just don't trust that the average kid is going to do with unschooling exactly what a lot of adults wish that they would.

Why not? Provided to parent has the energy and intelligence and screen time is restricted, why shouldn't it work much better than traditional schooling?

[church_of_dog]

:lol:

whoops, sorry, dunno why that image worked at first but then not. It was a poster from the movie Nell.

Oh well, not that funny anyway...

[shaylahc]

I have homeschooled in the past, but I am not a fan of unschooling. Pretty much all of the unschoolers I met were deficient in academic skills and or social skills. I think unschooling becomes the "lazy parents" homeschooling method. Who wouldn't love to not be responsible for their kids' education?

If "unschooling" really worked, illiteracy would not exist. Children need guidance when it comes to education. Just waiting for them to show an interest in Calculus is not going to happen. Many of these kids will grow up to work blue collar jobs, because that's all they're really qualified to do. Of the unschooling families I met, most were happy with that outcome, because they wanted their kids at home anyway (as long as possible).

Love homeschooling, dislike unschooling.

[Lissa1481]

Besides, it seems to me that when your names are Hellena and Currawong, google will find whatever's out there on you, even if your entirely ordinary last name is omitted from the search... :lol:

I just found the thread here about them - omg insane. I still wish I could see the blog itself. It might give me one massive headache though.

Free jinger people you are hilarious. I'm at my daughters o.t. Laughing my ass off. They must think I'm nuts.

[Chicken bones]

Oh if only those girls could just stay at H&C's. they look more unkempt and uncared-for than usual. It is nice to hear about the 'dong family again...their exit from the public blog world was so dramatic....

[Black Aliss]

I have homeschooled in the past, but I am not a fan of unschooling. Pretty much all of the unschoolers I met were deficient in academic skills and or social skills. I think unschooling becomes the "lazy parents" homeschooling method. Who wouldn't love to not be responsible for their kids' education?

Love homeschooling, dislike unschooling.

I, too, have homeschooled in the past. Back then, "unschooling" didn't mean "let the kids do whatever they want", it meant not having a formal curriculum, but using the child's interest in something to form the basis for inquiry and learning. For example, if your 5 year old has an obsession with firetrucks, you can not only use that for reading comprehension by reading books about firetrucks and firefighters, but you can introduce math, physics, and chemistry (water pressure, friction coefficient of the brass pole, what does a fire need in order to ignite and burn, etc.) biology (why do firefighters need to wear respirators, insulated clothing, carry oxygen, what does "stop, drop, and roll" accomplish), PE (running up and down stairwells carrying heavy backpacks, climbing ladders). For an older child you can teach more math, more science, and add in social studies, history (historical fires that changed the rules of society) initiate discussions about the common good (why are fire departments supported with tax money rather than by private providers, why are building codes important)

If/when the child's interest turns to, say, fish, the engaged, creative, intelligent parents then leverages that interest into every subject.

I think that kind of unschooling is a great approach up through middle school at most. Eventually a child's interests may not lead them in every direction they need to go; algebra, trig, calculus are hard to work into this kind of learning; and most homes don't have the kind of lab equipment you need to teach high school science.

Edited to fix bad tag.

[August]

I have homeschooled in the past, but I am not a fan of unschooling. Pretty much all of the unschoolers I met were deficient in academic skills and or social skills. I think unschooling becomes the "lazy parents" homeschooling method. Who wouldn't love to not be responsible for their kids' education?

If "unschooling" really worked, illiteracy would not exist. Children need guidance when it comes to education. Just waiting for them to show an interest in Calculus is not going to happen. Many of these kids will grow up to work blue collar jobs, because that's all they're really qualified to do. Of the unschooling families I met, most were happy with that outcome, because they wanted their kids at home anyway (as long as possible).

Love homeschooling, dislike unschooling.

That's like saying schooling never works because you know an illiterate kid who kept being sent up a grade so as not to hurt their self esteem. Or parenting doesn't work because you know someone who spanks.

Again, how could proper unschooling not be better than normal schooling? I'll definitely pay the socialisation argument. You learn so many life skills spending day after day with people you don't choose (hard though it may be atthe time). But academically it would be streets ahead.

Molly, I have friends who are unschooling high school science, but we live in a very very large city, with incredible resources.

[mamallama]

Interesting that you mentioned calculus. I was about to post about my friend's son who was unschooled but in their case I think the reason it worked was because he was the only child at home and they had no TV so for long stretches of time his only entertainment was reading. In 7th grade he transitioned to a school for gifted and talented kids and then went to a special boarding school for math and science. Funny thing is between 8th and 9th grade he decided to teach himself calculus and was able to test out of it for high school.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I only homrschooled for one year, but I met a ton of people and am still friends with them and in a book club with them. Their kids are all older and they are all unschoolers. Seriously, I've never met such cool kids. They are nice and very intelligent. Most start college like at 15. Many college graduates but also many artist types. But it's not lazy unschooling like you see on Wife Swap. These moms work ridiculously hard providing classes and field trips for their kids. They nurture their passions. It's a total lifestyle and requires a good support system. It helps that these are well off SAHMs. Maybe the kid can't read at age 6 but who cares, by age 9 they are devouring books based on what they love. They have a natural desire to know things. Lauren is doing it all wrong. That death camp girl didn't even know what a period or comma was. How does that never come up in life?

[Blahblah]

The unschooling/schooling debate comes down to this for me: the quality of the parent/teacher supervising the exercise and their guidance of the child.

Unschooling: Annasopinion, your example of the surgeon's kid is not unschooling in my opinion because they brought in tutors and ensured that learning occurred. Unschooling as per Lauren seems to involve zero lesson planning, zero resources other than those damn kippis, and zero effort or intervention from Lauren.

Homeschooling on the other hand, as per Molly Trolley's post above, requires the responsible adult to know their child, be acutely aware of a topic of interest and steer the child into other areas of exploration around that same topic. It requires care and attention to ensure that the basic areas of knowledge are covered such as Maths, English, science etc in order to give their child a rounded education.

In short, Lauren is not educating her girls. She is neglecting them.

[shaylahc]

I guess I don't see unschooling as being much different than parenting. I mean, if my kid showed an interest in Greek Mythology, for example, I'm going to nurture that interest by buying books, taking them to museums, buying DVDs, etc, even traveling, to nurture that. I think most parents do that, don't they? But to call it "unschooling", and to claim it replaces a regular education is a stretch, IMHO.

I homeschooled off and on for years.....k-8th grade, with kids who were in and out of school. I have several kids who are off the chart brilliant, and several kids who have significant learning disabilities. I really do think that it's important for children, especially older children (high school age) to attend school. You simply cannot reproduce that kind of an education in the hopes that your child will "show an interest" in the knowledge they will need to be successful in life.

I do think it is a wonderful gift to be able to homeschool small children. That is extra time I will always cherish that I had to spend with them. BUT....I want my kids to go to college, and get good, well-paying jobs. I think it's my duty as their mom to send them to school to get a well-rounded education outside of their own interests.

[happy atheist]

I just found the thread here about them - omg insane. I still wish I could see the blog itself. It might give me one massive headache though.

I have a backup of the whole blog, or at least most of it. I might not have the very last entry or two when she started posting videos.

If you're nice to me I can probably post a sample or two for your amusement. The wall o' text is guaranteed to make your eyes bleed!

[chaotic life]

I have one out of eight who will homeschool until he goes to college, and a certain component of his education IS unschooled. However, he has profound dyslexia and therefore if I were to strictly unschool him, I would absoulutely, 1000% be committing educational neglect. This is a child who starting at age 3 used to stare longingly at books because all he ever wanted to do was READ them and only gained independence on actually reading them when he got a Kindle that allowed him to utilize text to speech.

I absolutely believe that there some huge advantages to delight led education. Every child, whether you formally homeschool them or not, should be encouraged to seek out education for it's own sake and to pursue areas of personal interest on their own. I just do not believe this should be the only way you educate a child.

I'm fairly unschool oriented in the early homeschooling years, which I have done for eons. As the child gets older, I add more structure, but I still retain some choices of unschooling in their education. I know of NO unschoolers grown up who do not cite at least one major educational gap in their lives that has in fact impacted their lives. They mostly assert that learning how to self study gave them the tools to know how to fill those gaps when they arise, but I know quite a few adult unschoolers and it is pretty standard that educational gaps DO exist unless parents are careful to not strictly unschool and fill those gaps as they arise.

I do not see indication that Lauren does unschooling in ANY capacity of how it should occur. Successful unschooling involves a lot of behind the scenes work for the parents to set the child's world up so that it seems organic that they are presented with education and learning. It requires space, commitment and a very involved parent. Handing your kid an ipad does not constitute an education in any way, shape, or form. Lots and lots of field trips can provide some education, but I don't see any evidence that Lauren backs up the actual field trips with getting the KNOWLEDGE that can be accessed through such field trips. It involves not only religiously reading all of the information at the field trip location to the child, but also researching so that you can competently answer any and all questions that said field trips bring forth from the child. In short, in order for field trips to be educational for a child, they must by their very nature be EXHAUSTING for the parent.

[Lissa1481]

I have a backup of the whole blog, or at least most of it. I might not have the very last entry or two when she started posting videos.

If you're nice to me I can probably post a sample or two for your amusement. The wall o' text is guaranteed to make your eyes bleed!

I'm nice I promise! Especially to admin. :worship:

[Patsy]

I just found the thread here about them - omg insane. I still wish I could see the blog itself. It might give me one massive headache though.

Free jinger people you are hilarious. I'm at my daughters o.t. Laughing my ass off. They must think I'm nuts.

What are you doing at an OT? That's inauthentic interfering! Just wait for her issues to magically resolve themselves. After all, kids learn to walk and talk without tutoring.

[August]

I guess I don't see unschooling as being much different than parenting. I mean, if my kid showed an interest in Greek Mythology, for example, I'm going to nurture that interest by buying books, taking them to museums, buying DVDs, etc, even traveling, to nurture that. I think most parents do that, don't they? But to call it "unschooling", and to claim it replaces a regular education is a stretch, IMHO.

I homeschooled off and on for years.....k-8th grade, with kids who were in and out of school. I have several kids who are off the chart brilliant, and several kids who have significant learning disabilities. I really do think that it's important for children, especially older children (high school age) to attend school. You simply cannot reproduce that kind of an education in the hopes that your child will "show an interest" in the knowledge they will need to be successful in life.

I do think it is a wonderful gift to be able to homeschool small children. That is extra time I will always cherish that I had to spend with them. BUT....I want my kids to go to college, and get good, well-paying jobs. I think it's my duty as their mom to send them to school to get a well-rounded education outside of their own interests.

For me the difference between the way I parent my kids and how I'd unschool is that I can be slack because I know the school has all the basics covered. My kid's dissecting a yellow flashlight next to me ATM. If I were an unschooler I'd have the eletricity basket out of the science area tout suite and be talking electron flow. We do lots of discussions about stuff like critical thinking and science things because we're that sort of people. But no grammar like we would if we were unschoolers, not really any math (cooking doesn't count as math past the age of 3), like we'd have if we were unschoolers.

[happy atheist]

Be careful what you wish for. Here is the complete "Natural Birthing of Twins" saga.

Perhaps tomorrow I will post an example of her less than coherent ramblings on quantum physics, or something.

This is going to take several posts, because I had to take 17 screenshots to get it all.

[happy atheist]

More Hellena

[happy atheist]

More more Hellena

[happy atheist]

And finally.

[miffy]

Oh if only those girls could just stay at H&C's. they look more unkempt and uncared-for than usual. It is nice to hear about the 'dong family again...their exit from the public blog world was so dramatic....

Yeah, they would be fed, have a proper bedtime, be allowed to grieve & show emotion.

[happy atheist]

Yeah, they would be fed, have a proper bedtime, be allowed to grieve & show emotion.

I read that as "grieve in slow motion." :lol:

[miffy]

I read that as "grieve in slow motion." :lol:

Thats probably due to my lazy bad grammar.

A montage? :lol:

[Cheetah]

Thanks for posting those, Happy Atheist! I've never read a birth story where twins were delivered so far apart. I would have been a nervous wreck. Or an exhausted wreck. Or really, at the hospital.... But it was interesting to read.