The Proverbs Family shuts it all down

[marmalade]

He has no memory of the indecents, and passed a lie detector...WTF???

Of course you would pass if you have no memory.

As for the rest, holy incosistencies, Batman! That blase attitude about indoctrination really pissed me off. I'm voting PM wrote it, purposely different from her normal writing style, to try and throw people off the scent. But who else would know all these deets? A friend from the church? I don't think so.

[lilith]

Can we start a Google thing for Proverbs Mom?

This is a very bad idea while there are CPS and criminal investigations open. FJ really can't be associated with it. It's different to the Doug Philips (is a tool) campaign, for obvious reasons.

[FJismyheadship]

This is a very bad idea while there are CPS and criminal investigations open. FJ really can't be associated with it. It's different to the Doug Philips (is a tool) campaign, for obvious reasons.

Ok thanks! Just curious. Didn't think about the implications.

[Curious]

Surely CPS will be familiar with kids changing their stories to protect their parents, if this is what really happened and not a lie of her mothers to make it seem like she is lying. I bet it happens a lot, with kids like K who have a parent who will hate and not believe them for speaking out about what their partner is doing to her, or have been told that it was all their fault and that nobody will believe them. Or kids who have been told that if they ever tell anyone they are going to be beaten up even worse, or have been scared with stories of what happens in foster homes, or kids who are worried about getting split up from their siblings and never seeing them again, or think they deserve to be treated this way and that everyone else hates them too.

They also probably know that you cant write off a kid as a liar for being abused if their parents say they are a bad kid who is rebellious and trying to tear the family apart, as kids who have been abused are more likely to act out. Theres also the case of parents who dont like their kids very much and use little things theyve done to justify their abuse of them or are bringing up things in the past or making things up to make their kid look bad and the kind of kid who would lie.

Im sure she wont be written off as a liar, theyre used to speaking to frightened kids who have been abused, abusive parents who are desperately trying not to get their kids taken away, and people who are in denial of their partner abusing their kids. I hope they believe her, it doesnt matter if her parents believe her or not, as long as CPS does as theyre the ones with the power to get her to safety. She needs the chance to speak up about what happened and be listened to. The truth will come out eventually.

I hope she is being looked after and isnt being treated badly at home by her mother because of it :(

Please let her be protected and end up somewhere safe away from her molesting stepdad and victim blaming mother. Shes never going to get the chance to heal from it in that house with her mother not believing her and making her feel like crap for it.

I would hope since there are allegations of sexual abuse that K is taken for a dr. exam of some kind, by CPS. At that point, someone should notice the marks from her cutting. That alone should trigger some kind of warning bells for them, since normal, happy teenagers do not routinely cut.

[ThisOlGirl]

I can't believe that K's mom--excuse me--JoseJose could sit there and say "Oh, well she came on to her stepdad multiple times"(paraphrasing) and think that's ok. If my daughter started acting out sexually to a husband or SO of mine, I'd get her some help, because obviously, she needs help. It's like mom--excuse me--JoseJose is saying since K allegedly came on to stepdad, he can't be at fault for anything he might have done. You're a shitty mother, JoseJose.

[Koala]

I would hope since there are allegations of sexual abuse that K is taken for a dr. exam of some kind, by CPS. At that point, someone should notice the marks from her cutting. That alone should trigger some kind of warning bells for them, since normal, happy teenagers do not routinely cut.

Exactly. I also think when PM runs the whole "defiant since birth" line by them, that will raise alarm bells as well.

Something else about the fb post bothered me. The writer implies that PM has been allowed to continue running her in home daycare. I mean surely to god not, right? Even if the husband has been removed from the home, there are allegations that PM was aware of this abuse and did nothing to remove her children or the children in her care from the source of danger. You just can't convince me that they gave her the go ahead to continue caring for those kids.

It was also implied that Proverbs Stepfather was cleared to stay with a family with minor children in the home. Something is really off about that. I don't care how sick he is, until he is cleared of the charges that have been made against him, he does not need to be living with children.

Either way, at least authorities are involved now, and I have a lot of respect for the members of FJ who went the extra mile to make sure that this came to their attention.

One day, when this mess is all over I hope K will look back and see that there are decent people out there who genuinely care about the well being of others. I hope she realizes that she did nothing, nothing at all to instigate her own abuse, and that she does not deserve the pain she brings herself through cutting. My heart breaks for her because I know the road ahead is long, but with help and therapy she can work through this horrible thing she has had to go through.

[FJismyheadship]

I wanna know what she meant by Before you get banned from FJ....

Who was she talking about? I haven't seen anyone being threatened with a banning...

I forgot to mention the cutting when I called CPS, but hopefully Curious is right and someone will see the marks and ask questions.

[LeopardLady]

There's a new response to the facebook post from someone who appears to be the mother. However, they posted earlier trying to say that Duggar Family news was Valeria... So does that mean the mother has been reading here for a while? Or is this just an elaborate hoax? I'm confused.

[marmalade]

I saw the Valeria post as well, but couldn't figure out who that was supposed to be. I'm fairly new to the PM saga; if I saw PM's name, I don't remember it.

I wanna know what she meant by Before you get banned from FJ....

Who was she talking about? I haven't seen anyone being threatened with a banning...

I forgot to mention the cutting when I called CPS, but hopefully Curious is right and someone will see the marks and ask questions.

I think she meant when FB banned her for (possibly) changing the name on her account, which FB appears to monitor. I changed the name of my sock ages ago and they finally got around to sending me a message about it. I had to confirm my "real" name before I was allowed to log in again.

[DarkAnts]

There's a new response to the facebook post from someone who appears to be the mother. However, they posted earlier trying to say that Duggar Family news was Valeria... So does that mean the mother has been reading here for a while? Or is this just an elaborate hoax? I'm confused.

Its a smoke screen. PM is trying to make people think that the first post was not from her. She must be reading here. I dont see how else she could pick up on that suspicion.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Im confused? First ahmigad accuses Val of being a bad mom and then posts a response from her?

[Curious]

I have no clue what is going on, but posting on the facebook page is accomplishing nothing, IMO. If someone wants to engage with us, they need to register for an account and do it here, as I explained yesterday to the Duggar Family News person.

I do know for an absolute fact that Valeria knows about FJ and the FJ facebook page.

[marmalade]

Still confuzzled: is Val PM or the Pickles and Hairspray person?

[copper]

Ok, so the last response to Jose's comment, that seems to be PM....

The complaints against the church sound very similar to a post PM had on her blog before everything blew up...not helping other ppl, etc.

Regardless of who the poster on FB is, PM has a history of "I heard of this situation" type stories that really sound like they happened to her, rather than an alluded to, vague entity.

[Curious]

Still confuzzled: is Val PM or the Pickles and Hairspray person?

Valeria = ProverbsMom (not to be confused with Penn Mommy or Possummomma).

I don't know who the pickles and hairspray person is either. She says she's been banned, but she's clearly still reading here, as well.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think PM is lying (is there anyone with those initials who doesnt, lol). There is something going on at home, there has to be. Why would a kid lie about being molested if nothing was going on at home. Why would a kid be cutting herself if nothing was going on at home-its not like shes away from home long enough to be doing it for other reasons like being bullied at school. Its not like these things appear out of thin air.

It would take a lot for a kid to be evil enough to accuse someone of abusing them, even in cases where kids have done, a lot of the time theyve said it because someone else is. Theres no smoke without fire, its not something most kids would come up on their own. Yeah, K is 17, but shes quite sheltered as well, so its unlikely she saw anything on TV dealing with an issue like this and decided to use it in a plan to get rid of her stepdad. Shes not an evil genius, she is a teenage girl who is obviously troubled by something and crying out for help.

I know fundies think of kids as these evil sinful beings who need to be beaten into obedient robots before it is too late, but theyre not, kids come into this world completely innocent, and how they grow up depends on what values their parents teach them, either directly (setting boundaries and teaching them good manners) or indirectly (neglecting a child would teach them that nobody cares about them). Yeah, I am sure sociopaths come from somewhere, and there have been murderers as young as 10, but most kids dont just think "I really dont like my stepdad, maybe if I lie about being molested by him, I can make him go away". Kids arent evil, the thought of something so terrible wouldnt even cross their minds.

I wonder if they use the Pearl methods as well, as I imagine that would make quite an interesting conversation with CPS.

[Mama Mia]

I think PM is lying (is there anyone with those initials who doesnt, lol). There is something going on at home, there has to be. Why would a kid lie about being molested if nothing was going on at home. Why would a kid be cutting herself if nothing was going on at home-its not like shes away from home long enough to be doing it for other reasons like being bullied at school. Its not like these things appear out of thin air.

It would take a lot for a kid to be evil enough to accuse someone of abusing them, even in cases where kids have done, a lot of the time theyve said it because someone else is. Theres no smoke without fire, its not something most kids would come up on their own. Yeah, K is 17, but shes quite sheltered as well, so its unlikely she saw anything on TV dealing with an issue like this and decided to use it in a plan to get rid of her stepdad. Shes not an evil genius, she is a teenage girl who is obviously troubled by something and crying out for help.

I know fundies think of kids as these evil sinful beings who need to be beaten into obedient robots before it is too late, but theyre not, kids come into this world completely innocent, and how they grow up depends on what values their parents teach them, either directly (setting boundaries and teaching them good manners) or indirectly (neglecting a child would teach them that nobody cares about them). Yeah, I am sure sociopaths come from somewhere, and there have been murderers as young as 10, but most kids dont just think "I really dont like my stepdad, maybe if I lie about being molested by him, I can make him go away". Kids arent evil, the thought of something so terrible wouldnt even cross their minds.

I wonder if they use the Pearl methods as well, as I imagine that would make quite an interesting conversation with CPS.

I know nothing about this particular family, and of course the vast majority of the time kids who say they are being abused are in fact being abused. But it really isn't unheard if for a kid to lie about molestation. Kids aren't evil, but a few will do evil things. Just like adults. And it isn't necessarily due to something terrible going on, or having awful parents.

I am not saying this girl is lying, not at all. But I do know of teens who have made allegations of abuse who made it up. Just speaking from professional experience ( worked in social service agencies that provide service to families for over 20 years )

[ILoveJellybeans]

Yeah, some kids can do terrible things, Im not denying that-there are even 10 year old murderers, kids who have bullied other kids to suicide, kids who steal and set things on fire, kids who are good liars...yeah, it is possible that in a few cases kids can make it up, its just something most normal kids would never even think of.

She doesnt seem like the sort of person to lie about it-the worst they could say about her is that she ran outside naked once when she was a child and that she didnt like doing chores until she was brainwashed into it.

[nelliebelle1197]

What a confused mess. The Facebook page postings are just bizarre. Sounds like PM is really a pathetic creature all 'round

[mrs]

Im confused? First ahmigad accuses Val of being a bad mom and then posts a response from her?

I think she posted later that she was just "passing along" an email Val sent her.

Also, Ahmigad posted that Val is asking for Ex-ATI/IBLP resources like Recovering Grace.

I do not mind sharing anti-ATI information. I recommend:

thatmom.com - particularly Karen's podcast series on Patriarchy and Quirverfull movements. She also has an interesting series on spiritual abuse.

homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/

ETA: I have no clue if Ahmigad is a real person or if she/he has made contact with Val via email.

[littlemommy]

"Ahmigad" is a little too close to "Ermagerd" for me to take seriously. Not that I would believe any of it anyway.

[Koala]

I can't figure out what's going on or why so much focus is being placed on Gothard at this time. If I were in PM's shoes I wouldn't give a damn about FJ, the internet, or my church. I am very confused about how she would even find time to take to social media given that she has all of these children to care for (including daycare kids if that's to be believed) and running back and forth to her husband.

I am thinking I would just go right ahead and have a nervous breakdown or spiral into some horrid depression. I can't fathom that I would give a fuck what anyone on the internet had to say about me.

[ladyamylynn]

Valeria = ProverbsMom (not to be confused with Penn Mommy or Possummomma).

I don't know who the pickles and hairspray person is either. She says she's been banned, but she's clearly still reading here, as well.

I'm fairly certain I know who P&H is. She was banned for being a sock puppet a while back.

[mrs]

Ok, so the last response to Jose's comment, that seems to be PM....

The complaints against the church sound very similar to a post PM had on her blog before everything blew up...not helping other ppl, etc.

Regardless of who the poster on FB is, PM has a history of "I heard of this situation" type stories that really sound like they happened to her, rather than an alluded to, vague entity.

I have been looking through old threads (freejinger.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15634) about the Duggar Church. I agree about the similar complaints. She wrote about how her family ate rice and beans a few times a week so the would able to donate food to the church. While others would donate nothing.

[flojo]

I can't believe that K's mom--excuse me--JoseJose could sit there and say "Oh, well she came on to her stepdad multiple times"(paraphrasing) and think that's ok. If my daughter started acting out sexually to a husband or SO of mine, I'd get her some help, because obviously, she needs help. It's like mom--excuse me--JoseJose is saying since K allegedly came on to stepdad, he can't be at fault for anything he might have done. You're a shitty mother, JoseJose.

This exactly. IF she were acting out sexually toward her step father, that should set off HUGE alarm bells, as that is not normal or healthy preteen/teen behaviour. It should not be used as an excuse as to why a grown man shouldn't take responsibility for his actions. This victim blaming is horrific.