Erin & Chad are offical...

[singsingsing]

I don't understand NOT 'planning to get engaged'. I can't think of anyone I know who didn't know they were going to get engaged until the second it happened. I can't imagine getting engaged to someone who I hadn't been talking about marriage with already. The guy obviously knows marriage is coming (he has to buy the ring and plan the proposal) so what you're basically saying is that the woman should be kept in the dark. How does that make any sense at all?

[erunerune]

I don't understand NOT 'planning to get engaged'. I can't think of anyone I know who didn't know they were going to get engaged until the second it happened. I can't imagine getting engaged to someone who I hadn't been talking about marriage with already. The guy obviously knows marriage is coming (he has to buy the ring and plan the proposal) so what you're basically saying is that the woman should be kept in the dark. How does that make any sense at all?

My proposal didn't include a ring, so I don't believe that is a requirement for engagement. I don't get "Tell me what day you will ask me so I can plan my day around it and we can seal the deal with flowers and ring, etc."

The asking is just a formality at that point, since both parties have already consented to marry one another. Nothing wrong with that, I guess, just seems like a lot of posturing for pictures.

My husband and I have been married over 12 years. We never specifically talked about getting married prior to getting engaged, although we were definitely not planning on *not* being with one another in the future. I don't think the woman OR the man should feel "kept in the dark" about the status of their relationship. When my husband asked me, it was a happy surprise, and I especially like that it wasn't something I was expecting or impatient for. It was just organic that way for us.

*Editing to add that I'm not dissing people who enjoy the "planning to get engaged" stuff. I think I've read too much internet where it gets taken to convoluted extremes, and it starts to seem really staged, thus losing some sincerity in the translation. I'm sure Erin's hair is thrilled to be marrying that guy.

[anjulibai]

I really don't understand the "planning to get engaged" part. Erin & her fiancé already *knew* they were planning to get married, which sort of makes them de facto engaged from that point on, right?

Bear with me for a sec :)

So, because of the tradition and pageantry associated with "getting engaged" (even though IMO opinion they were essentially engaged as soon as they had a mutual understanding that they genuinely wished to follow through with marriage to each other), they basically pretend they are not engaged until the pageantry requirements have been fulfilled. Then they are for realz engaged, according to their worldview or community expectations or whatever.

Zach & Whitney are also in the "pretending not to be engaged really yet" stage. Even tho they are, according to everyone.

I honestly had no idea that mr. erunerune wanted to marry me until he proposed (it took me a while to even figure out he was proposing, srsly). So I have not personally experienced the "we both know darn well we are getting married yet won't consider it official until a certain number of boxes have been checked to make us official" stage.

Help me understand this!

Well, being a little less judgy would help...

My husband and I had been discussing marriage for quite a while. When we got engaged we'd decided together we had decided together the fact that we were sure we were ready to be married.

So, we planned a day to make it official and my husband and I planned to go have a special day for it. We picked a day that had some meaning to us and went to a place that had meaning to us, and my husband got down on one knee with a ring we picked out together.

Sure it was a formality, but it still needed to happen in some way. So we planned it out.

And we are not conservative by any stretch of the imagination. We'd been dating for over two years and living together nearly a year when we officially became engaged.

We simply decided to do something special to mark the move from boyfriend and girlfriend to fiances.

[erunerune]

Well, being a little less judgy would help...

My husband and I had been discussing marriage for quite a while. When we got engaged we'd decided together we had decided together the fact that we were sure we were ready to be married.

So, we planned a day to make it official and my husband and I planned to go have a special day for it. We picked a day that had some meaning to us and went to a place that had meaning to us, and my husband got down on one knee with a ring we picked out together.

Sure it was a formality, but it still needed to happen in some way. So we planned it out.

And we are not conservative by any stretch of the imagination. We'd been dating for over two years and living together nearly a year when we officially became engaged.

We simply decided to do something special to mark the move from boyfriend and girlfriend to fiances.

That sounds lovely, I've no issue with intentional sentimentality. The intent of my original post was to express my lack of understanding regarding the extremes to which fundies take such things: i.e. "engagement denial" regardless of much evidence to the contrary.

[mockingbird]

This is conjecture but I think maybe with the fundies, official engagement tends to mean 1) they are actively planning the wedding and 2) the wedding will happen in a relatively short amount of time. So then like Erin/Chad they can be totally sure they are going to get married, but until it is convenient to really start planning for the wedding and committing to getting married soon (rather than "someday"/far in the future [for them]), they won't get officially engaged?

[SoSoNosy]

So, when half the clan has to tag along as chaperones, does poor Chad have to pick up the tab for all of them?

[erunerune]

This is conjecture but I think maybe with the fundies, official engagement tends to mean 1) they are actively planning the wedding and 2) the wedding will happen in a relatively short amount of time. So then like Erin/Chad they can be totally sure they are going to get married, but until it is convenient to really start planning for the wedding and committing to getting married soon (rather than "someday"/far in the future [for them]), they won't get officially engaged?

This makes sense! In kind of a fundie black-and-white way, they might need to be able to say there is a specific, concrete wedding date in the near future to qualify for "engaged" status. The other stuff: two adults deciding they wish to spend their lives together, getting their future home ready, talking about important pre-marital stuff, etc. isn't enough by itself. If they can't spread the word about the wedding date, it carries less weight maybe.

[sunshine]

I just don't get why it was inappropriate for him to touch her hand long enough to put a ring on it. Does hand holding like, automatically lead to crack and heroin and Hitler riding dinosaurs pissing on Christianity?

Also, they've been engaged what, a week? Two weeks? And they're already doing registries? Took us six months to even decide WHERE to register.

Well, I believe they are getting it from the bible verse 1 Corinthians 7:1--Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman KJV.

[Guest]

Actually, when it comes to engagement, I think fundies are more realistic about things. Kelly has said that Zach and Whitney very much intend to get married and are putting together the details. They don't pretend like they haven't already talked about it. I know lots of mainstream people though who really play it cool until he's on one knee- dodging any incriminating questions or acting like they don't talk much about the future. In the same page, fundies treat courting couples very seriously. Meanwhile, many people treat a couple who is dating, even if it has been for years and years, as much less serious than a couple who is engaged, even if there seems to be no wedding date in sight.

I'm not saying one way is better than the other, but I think the comparison is interesting.

[Dandruff]

It's like I can read fundie minds!!!

Kelly mentioned in the comments that Erin will only have 3 sisters as bridesmaids and a couple flower girls. I did not expect that!

She also mentions that Zach has a ring and is waiting to propose to Whitney... Does anyone else think it's kind of weird that she broadcasts that? Whenever someone I know has gotten married, everything, including when and if they have a ring yet, is pretty hush hush until the day of.

These folks are thinking marriage before they've even gone on their first post-courting agreement 'date', so perhaps secrets are just in the details for them?

Erin may only have 3 sisters as bridesmaids, but that doesn't necessarily mean she won't also have a handful or two of Duggars in the wedding party. If it's going to be filmed, I'm sure the Duggars will be all over it.

[redcurls]

Does hand holding like, automatically lead to crack and heroin and Hitler riding dinosaurs.

Wait... That didn't happen for you?

[marmalade]

I think that might be where Chad proposed to Erin. I find it weird that Erin wanted to know when the "big day" was going to be instead of being surprised. Then again, I know some people who started planning their wedding before getting engaged, so whatever makes them happy.

I think the reason why Kelly brought up Zach buying a ring and planning a March wedding is because Whitney and Zach have been planning since they started courting. Kelly mentioned something about them talking about getting engaged around October. If that's the case then Zach and Whitney will be courting for just 3 months before popping the question. Since he bought the ring already, it means the proposal will happen pretty soon.

Ha, not shocked that their website is "Chadloveserin.com". Shocking that Erin isn't going to have a bunch of bridesmaids like how David and Pris, Josh and Anna, Valerie and Adam, etc have had.

She only has a few sisters who are really old enough to be bridesmaids. There is at least one boy between Tori and Carlin; that's probably where she drew the line. Carlin and those middle girls will have some sort of role and the littles will be flower girls. There are a couple of Paine girls to fill out a wedding party, but if they go huge, she may pick a Duggar or two. I hope not.

[Justme]

In one of the engagement comments, Kelly said that parts of the engagement where filmed for possible use in the Duggar's show.

[nokidsmom]

She only has a few sisters who are really old enough to be bridesmaids. There is at least one boy between Tori and Carlin; that's probably where she drew the line. Carlin and those middle girls will have some sort of role and the littles will be flower girls. There are a couple of Paine girls to fill out a wedding party, but if they go huge, she may pick a Duggar or two. I hope not.

I actually hope not either. Maybe for once, the Duggars can stay out of this one but if any of this engagement / wedding is filmed, they will probably be involved.

[Justme]

I would rather they are bridesmaids than sing. Please, please no singing or violin screeching.

[DarkAnts]

I hope it was Chad and Erins idea to be on the show. I kind of doubt it though. I also hope that Erin gets the wedding of her dreams because she sold her privacy to TLC.

[Mela99]

In one of the engagement comments, Kelly said that parts of the engagement where filmed for possible use in the Duggar's show.

Normally I'd be annoyed, but I hope this lights a fire under Boob and he starts letting the girls go.

[xReems]

I don't see anything wrong talking about marriage before getting engaged. My boyfriend and I have been together for 5 1/2 years now and we've been talking about marriage a lot-just things like where want to live, how we're going to be after marriage, etc, but he's not telling me when he's proposing nor do I want to know. Even though I know he's going to propose, I don't know when so it could be today, next week, next year, etc.

Anyways...apparently, Zach is getting super excited over proposing to Whitney, which I think is going to happen soon. Here's Kelly's response:

Dear Gary,

LOL!!…Actually, Zach told her he got it…he’s SOOOOOOOO excited he can’t keep a secret! He even sent her a pic! I couldn’t believe it! He was bubbling over like a kid! If he spoils his engagement plans and doesn’t surprise her, his family is gonna oust him..LOL! I think he’s told everyone in the world, but her! Love, Kelly

[Pretzel]

Oh how I am tempted to go for the trash cans.... Nothing says " congratulations! You have successfully eliminated any remaining individuality from your fundie life " than picking the trash cans on the fundie registry :D

[Odd1Out]

I completely get talking about marriage, seeing if its both what you want and the time is right and all. I just don't get basically already asking the person to marry you but saying "we're not engaged yet". Then saying you'll do the whole get down on one knee with a ring on a certain planned day that she's scheduled her other things around. Seems just like its a ritual that must be done. I guess I see it kind of like planning your own surprise party. I'm not saying the girl should have absolutely no clue beforehand. And I completely understand others see it totally different than me.

[singsingsing]

I don't see how it's a problem if both the people involved are happy. There isn't really a 'right' way to get engaged. The one thing I strongly believe is that both people should be on the same page, and should have discussed marriage and future plans beforehand. After that, whether you want the actual engagement to be a complete surprise, leave elements of it as a surprise, or just not bother with it at all, it doesn't really matter.

[snickerz]

I think the actual engagement may also mean a change in the amount of contact allowed -- going from no-touch to hand sex for example.

[Odd1Out]

I don't see how it's a problem if both the people involved are happy. There isn't really a 'right' way to get engaged. The one thing I strongly believe is that both people should be on the same page, and should have discussed marriage and future plans beforehand. After that, whether you want the actual engagement to be a complete surprise, leave elements of it as a surprise, or just not bother with it at all, it doesn't really matter.

I get what you're saying and if that's how they want to do it that's fine. I'm just making a comment is all. It would be weird for me to plan out the day when we had already agreed to be married and then know every single step that would happen during the "proposal". Everyone's entitled to do things their own way. Just like most people think its odd for sibling chaperones and parents to tag along for the engagement but to Erin and Chad it's completely normal.

[HereticHick]

I can't understand why on earth the Bates/Payne engagement was filmed for the Duggars show--no Duggars were present as far as I can tell.

UNLESS--bear with me here--there will be some sort of "the Duggar Gals explain Goodly Relationships" episode and this footage will be used, since they can't cough up any real life examples of their own.

[its a shame you can't get your publishing act together, ladies, and have it as a book tie in as well!]

[Justme]

I can't understand why on earth the Bates/Payne engagement was filmed for the Duggars show--no Duggars were present as far as I can tell.

UNLESS--bear with me here--there will be some sort of "the Duggar Gals explain Goodly Relationships" episode and this footage will be used, since they can't cough up any real life examples of their own.

[its a shame you can't get your publishing act together, ladies, and have it as a book tie in as well!]

They filmed the son's engagement (don't remember his name) for the Duggar's show.