Cleveland Captives & Ariel Castro Suicide - Merge

[crazyforkate]

What do people think of the notion that the guy might be tried for murder over the pregnancies he forced them to miscarry? I'm highly uncomfortable with this notion (though absolutely favour any assault charges related to the mechanism of abortion), unless there is evidence that any of them were born alive. Does anyone know Ohio law about this? Can a fetus be considered a murder victim?

[bananacat]

What do people think of the notion that the guy might be tried for murder over the pregnancies he forced them to miscarry? I'm highly uncomfortable with this notion (though absolutely favour any assault charges related to the mechanism of abortion), unless there is evidence that any of them were born alive. Does anyone know Ohio law about this? Can a fetus be considered a murder victim?

He shouldn't be charged for murder. He should be charged for assault - of the women. Being pro-choice means that I don't support forced abortion any more than I support forced childbirth. It goes both ways and it was wrong of him to do, but still not murder. I know nothing about Ohio law though, so that's just how I think it should go.

[tropaka]

I guess under Ohio law he can be charged with murder for terminating the pregnancies. Personally, I think if someone forces someone to abort they should be charged with an offence (don't know about murder, but in this case only Ohio law really applies).

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Real nice

huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/05/09/sylvia-brownes-amanda-perry-psychic_n_3240157.html

"Browne told Louwana Miller, the mother of Amanda Berry, on "The Montel Williams Show" in 2004: "She’s not alive, honey. Your daughter’s not the kind who wouldn’t call," The Atlantic Wire reported. Berry was kidnapped 10 years ago and was found alive on Monday.

Browne responded with an official statement to The Huffington Post earlier this week that included this line: "Only God is right all the time."

[Lainey]

Real nice

huffingtonpost.com/mobileweb/2013/05/09/sylvia-brownes-amanda-perry-psychic_n_3240157.html

"Browne told Louwana Miller, the mother of Amanda Berry, on "The Montel Williams Show" in 2004: "She’s not alive, honey. Your daughter’s not the kind who wouldn’t call," The Atlantic Wire reported. Berry was kidnapped 10 years ago and was found alive on Monday.

Browne responded with an official statement to The Huffington Post earlier this week that included this line: "Only God is right all the time."

She is despicable. :evil: I have to wonder if Louwana Miller would still be alive today, if Fraudlia Browne hadn't told her there was no hope.

[Coy Koi]

Sylvia Browne is a horrible person. If she ever deluded herself that she was really psychic, she has long since been proven wrong enough times to know she isn't, and it doesn't stop her from being callous with people's emotions about the most sensitive things imaginable.

I feel horrible about Amanda Berry and her mom. I wonder if Amanda knew her mom had died before she escaped, because if not, what a horrible surprise :( I guess she likely did know though, since judging by her 911 tape she seemed to be aware that she'd been in the news all these years.

[Lainey]

I wondered that too. I think she probably did know. I hope so, anyway. But how helpless must she have felt? Ugh, what a horrible crime.

I haven't really heard anything new about it today. Have there been any new developments? Did anyone look at those links I posted on the last page, about the girls' disappearance before they were rescued? I just thought it was interesting that they said Amanda Berry got into a car with three men, and originally, the brothers were also charged.

Oh, actually I did hear a bit more today--that Ariel Castro wrote a letter (possibly a suicide note?) in which he mentioned all the women, and that he blamed them for accepting a ride from him in the first place. :roll:

[dianapavelovna]

I did, Lainey. I didn't know that Gina DeJesus has some kind of what sound like developmental delays. The Charley Project page said that she was in special education and still learning to read. I also thought it was interesting that there was a report of seeing Amanda get into a car with three men. I'm curious about so many of the details, but of course respect and privacy for the women and their families is more important. I did read a horrible detail - apparently he would give them cakes on the day they were taken each year and tell them "happy abduction day." Just sick.

I've also been thinking about Michelle Knight. It seems that her family has been pretty dysfunctional since well before she was kidnapped, and I can't help but hope that she has a soft place to land, especially since she's remained hospitalized and has been described as having "mental problems." I was also wondering about the child she apparently lost custody of just before she was kidnapped. What happened to him? Who did she lose custody to, exactly? Does he live with relatives or his father or was he in the foster care system? Where is he now?

[Coy Koi]

I'm so sad that Amanda Berry's mom didn't live to see this. How happy she would have been! The picture of Amanda with her sister and daughter is great and they look so happy, but this has to be a huge dark cloud over it all.

I'm also quickly growing tired of people calling the escape a miracle and praising God for it. No, what happened before the escape was unthinkable and the victims may never recover (although obviously I hope they do). It never having happened at all would not be a miracle, it would be the default. That they were tortured for a decade is pure evil. That it ever ended is a small consolation.

[salex]

I also thought it was interesting that there was a report of seeing Amanda get into a car with three men.

Eye witnesses are so unreliable. I served on a jury that had both eye witnesses and a film of a the robbery. The witnesses were sincere, but what they saw vs what the camera caught was very different.

[Lainey]

I did, Lainey. I didn't know that Gina DeJesus has some kind of what sound like developmental delays. The Charley Project page said that she was in special education and still learning to read. I also thought it was interesting that there was a report of seeing Amanda get into a car with three men. I'm curious about so many of the details, but of course respect and privacy for the women and their families is more important. I did read a horrible detail - apparently he would give them cakes on the day they were taken each year and tell them "happy abduction day." Just sick.

:whaaa: :shock: :pink-shock: Geez. I hadn't heard that before. WTF?

I've also been thinking about Michelle Knight. It seems that her family has been pretty dysfunctional since well before she was kidnapped, and I can't help but hope that she has a soft place to land, especially since she's remained hospitalized and has been described as having "mental problems." I was also wondering about the child she apparently lost custody of just before she was kidnapped. What happened to him? Who did she lose custody to, exactly? Does he live with relatives or his father or was he in the foster care system? Where is he now?

I really feel for her, as well. She seems to almost be like the "forgotten" one. :(

What kind of mental problem can make you confused by your surroundings? I'm confused about that. That's what they said she had problems with in the report when her mother reported her missing, I think. Speaking of her mother, has she actually refused to see her? I have heard it implied, but haven't seen anything saying that she won't see her mother, just that she hasn't (yet?).

What I have heard and understand (if it's true) about her son, is that she lost custody of him due to her mother's (that would be Barbara's) then-boyfriend, who, I guess, thought it was funny to abuse/injure the child? I'm not sure what else happened there. That doesn't really make much sense to me. There has to be more to that. And I also heard that he went into foster care, but that was just from a commenter on one of the articles, so who knows?

[mockingbird]

I really feel for her, as well. She seems to almost be like the "forgotten" one. :(

What kind of mental problem can make you confused by your surroundings? I'm confused about that. That's what they said she had problems with in the report when her mother reported her missing, I think. Speaking of her mother, has she actually refused to see her? I have heard it implied, but haven't seen anything saying that she won't see her mother, just that she hasn't (yet?).

What I have heard and understand (if it's true) about her son, is that she lost custody of him due to her mother's (that would be Barbara's) then-boyfriend, who, I guess, thought it was funny to abuse/injure the child? I'm not sure what else happened there. That doesn't really make much sense to me. There has to be more to that. And I also heard that he went into foster care, but that was just from a commenter on one of the articles, so who knows?

I've been following her where I can because I also feel like she has been "forgotten". There are so many headlines that only mention Amanda and Gina.

Anyway, in an interview her mom said the detective was supposed to give her Michelle's new contact information and she hasn't gotten it yet nor has she been invited to the hospital room. So it's unclear whether that's a miscommunication on the part of the detective or whether it's purposeful on either side.

I thought the abusive boyfriend was Michelle's boyfriend, but I think the article I read just said "she" in that part of the article, so I'm not really sure.

[FiddleDD]

One article stated that her twin brother (who was kicked out of the house at 14 and says he never knew she was kidnapped) saw her the first night she was in the hospital. And there have been several mentions of an 'incident' when she was a teen that one place claimed was a gang rape, of which her son was apparently the product of. :shock:

It seems abundantly clear this girl did not come from a very nice family. One of the other girl's family members (I think it was Gina DeJesus's father) said all the girls were now family. I hope he meant it, it sounds like Michelle could us some family.

[Nothing2CHere]

Concerning the Michelle Knight coverage, this is my personal opinion as a Clevelander - I don't think the news stations (at least our local ones) are trying to purposely treat her as the "forgotten one." I think they'd love to play up her angle more but have been having a really hard time finding out information about her backstory. Amanda and Gina have been kept in people's consciousness by their families for the past ten years. All those photos that were shown over and over those first few days I'd seen several times over the years; they were all photos the families had previously released to the media. Whereas most of us don't remember ever hearing about Michelle's abduction, and as others have pointed out on this thread, her family seems to have been rather dysfunctional from even before her kidnapping. There are finally a few photos of Michelle circulating, and most of them look like old yearbook photos to me.

Here's an article from one of our local stations concerning the latest on Michelle: http://www.19actionnews.com/story/22211 ... e-hospital

ETA: I meant to also say that I, too, was a little leery when I heard about the potential murder charges for the forced miscarriages. Even though I live in Ohio, I'm not all that familiar with our laws concerning this. Last year one of the anti-choice organizations was trying to push a "heartbeat bill" through our state government, but it never came up for a vote. I don't recall if a new version is making the rounds yet or not (I had heard rumors that the group was going to try again). Although Ohio has some very conservative areas, the area around Cleveland almost always votes democrat.

[Rowan]

Concerning the Michelle Knight coverage, this is my personal opinion as a Clevelander - I don't think the news stations (at least our local ones) are trying to purposely treat her as the "forgotten one." I think they'd love to play up her angle more but have been having a really hard time finding out information about her backstory.

I absolutely agree with this. And they (hopefully) may be trying to treat her situation with kid gloves as there are all these mentions of developmental or emotional issues. She has enough to deal with without rampant speculation by the press. It's enough to know that things are complicated and hope that she is able to recover to some semblance of a normal life.

They said last night that Castro confessed to "some" of the things but because things are still ongoing, they weren't specific.

And um, Anderson Cooper did his broadcast last night from Castro's street. Too bad it's obviously closed off to all but residents and people with permission, because YUM! :dance: lol

[Nothing2CHere]

I suppose it's too much to hope that he just pleads guilty to everything and spares these women the horror of having to speak at a trial.

[itaintmebabe]

She is despicable. :evil: I have to wonder if Louwana Miller would still be alive today, if Fraudlia Browne hadn't told her there was no hope.

This.

I came here to post about this and glad someone beat me to it.

This is why I will never trust "psychics."

[Flossie]

I suppose it's too much to hope that he just pleads guilty to everything and spares these women the horror of having to speak at a trial.

Well, you can hope, but Ariel Castro seems to be a sociopath or a psychopath (don't know what the difference is), and I can't see him pleading guilty to spare these women from having to testify. He also seems to be a NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder). Look that up online and you'll see that while Narcissistics feel that they're superior to others, when they can't prove their perceived superiority, they immediately go into victim mode. Read on, and you'll see what I mean.

It makes a twisted sort of sense, that while the women were held captive he reportedly bought them cakes to 'celebrate' the date of their kidnapping. If the kidnapping and rapes weren't enough to drive the point home, the cakes were there to accentuate the point that he was the master and they were under his complete control. But there are also numerous reports that a suicide note was found in his home that was written several years ago. In the note he said that he was a sex addict and that he needed help, but at the same time he also claimed that the women themselves were at fault for accepting rides from him, thereby allowing him to kidnap them. I wonder what happened at that time that he was already setting up a defense whereby he was blaming the victims for what he did to them. Something happened to make him think that the authorities might be about to discover what he'd done, and he was preparing his defense. I hope that the threat of the death penalty makes him cooperative, as I think that learning as much as possible about his motivations could only help law enforcement when dealing with people like him in the future.

[Madge3]

http://www.10tv.com/content/stories/201 ... atest.html

This was just posted on our local news. DNA testing confirms Castro is the father of the 6 year old that was held in captivity too. Not that there was much of a doubt I don't think.

[Dollypeeps]

I wish they would blank out the 6 year olds face so she can some privacy at least cos they are all going to be hounded by the press for months if not years. JMO?

[Lainey]

They did pixelate the kid's face at first, but then they stopped. I don't know why. I agree she should have her privacy preserved as much as possible.

Regarding that link that Nothing2CHere posted, I wonder just how bad Michelle's facial injuries are? I hope that reconstructive surgery can help her. She's going to have enough to deal with, with the memories of her captivity, without a reminder of the beatings every time she looks in the mirror. I wonder if her hearing loss can be fixed or at least improved? Also, I see that they say the meeting of her and her mother was strained, and that she asked her mother to leave. Poor girl.

They also name the man who broke her child's arm: David Feckley. Is this the guy? If so, good lord.: http://statecasefiles.justia.com/docume ... o-3667.pdf

:shock:

[Nothing2CHere]

They did pixelate the kid's face at first, but then they stopped. I don't know why. I agree she should have her privacy preserved as much as possible.

The first few times I saw the image on local Cleveland news, the girl's face was shown. The first time I saw it pixilated was by a national news source (I don't remember which one). So it appears that the decision whether to block her face or not was determined by each news outlet. Now, when news of this first broke here, the girl was never referred to by name. I assumed that was to protect her privacy. It appears it was only because the news outlets didn't know her name yet. They (Cleveland local news) revealed her name on Wednesday, I think was when I first heard it.

[Belle0000]

So the brothers seem to be completely uninvolved. I wonder how they were ever implicated in the first place. Both their lives ruined by this association and initial finger pointing.

There have been reports that they had outstanding warrants unrelated to the kidnappings.

[redhotmess]

This whole kidnapping thing is so horrible. I hope Michelle Knight has some sort of support system. Her whole story is just heart breaking.

[Lainey]

I'd really like to know who the first woman was, if that's accurate. The one that it was reported that Michelle Knight saw when she was first there. Ans whose name is scrawled on the basement wall with "R.I.P?" That's worrisome.