Cleveland Captives & Ariel Castro Suicide - Merge

[Lainey]

Sorry to bump this again, but regarding him having visitation rights...is it common for a rapist to have visitation rights to the child he fathered as a result of rape? When Jaycee Dugard was rescued, she had two children by Philip Garrido, but he didn't get any visitation rights that I'm aware of. I hope Ariel Castro can't get visitation rights. He would just be doing it to retain control. I think there would be a HUGE public outcry.

[dianapavelovna]

Sorry to bump this again, but regarding him having visitation rights...is it common for a rapist to have visitation rights to the child he fathered as a result of rape? When Jaycee Dugard was rescued, she had two children by Philip Garrido, but he didn't get any visitation rights that I'm aware of. I hope Ariel Castro can't get visitation rights. He would just be doing it to retain control. I think there would be a HUGE public outcry.

I was thinking of Jaycee's kids, too. I don't recall ever hearing even a hint of the idea that Garrido might have access to them. I really expect this situation'll end up largely the same. If Castro really pushes the issue, I imagine that there would be no shortage of lawyers and advocates lining up to help Amanda fight it.

[dawbs]

Sorry to bump this again, but regarding him having visitation rights...is it common for a rapist to have visitation rights to the child he fathered as a result of rape? When Jaycee Dugard was rescued, she had two children by Philip Garrido, but he didn't get any visitation rights that I'm aware of. I hope Ariel Castro can't get visitation rights. He would just be doing it to retain control. I think there would be a HUGE public outcry.

Sadly enough, it varies state to state.

There was lots of discussion on it a year ago or so (not breaking link because, news):

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... hts/56118/

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/ ... ve_custody

Ohio is on the list of states that doesn't, by default, limit them.

[starfish]

That's something that is fairly horrific for rape victims. It is totally possible they have to comply with visitation

set in the court judgment which include taking their children to the jail to see their rapist dads. If a state has grandparents' rights, they could also be forced to comply with visitation with the various relatives who obtained visitation rights. The politicos who scream loudest about "no abortions ever" even in the case of rape apparently

have no problem with this arrangement, or don't understand all the ramifications because they are not smart people.

Or possibly they just don't care.

[Lainey]

Sadly enough, it varies state to state.

There was lots of discussion on it a year ago or so (not breaking link because, news):

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national ... hts/56118/

http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_news/ ... ve_custody

Ohio is on the list of states that doesn't, by default, limit them.

This is horrible.

The politicos who scream loudest about "no abortions ever" even in the case of rape apparently

have no problem with this arrangement, or don't understand all the ramifications because they are not smart people.

Or possibly they just don't care.

My guess is that it's this one. Or all three.

[Patsy]

That's something that is fairly horrific for rape victims. It is totally possible they have to comply with visitation

set in the court judgment which include taking their children to the jail to see their rapist dads. If a state has grandparents' rights, they could also be forced to comply with visitation with the various relatives who obtained visitation rights. The politicos who scream loudest about "no abortions ever" even in the case of rape apparently

have no problem with this arrangement, or don't understand all the ramifications because they are not smart people.

Or possibly they just don't care.

Yes. YES. I've seen some shit, and yes.

Speaking personally, I'm one of those people who never say they would or wouldn't have an abortion, because y'know..haven't been there, can't be sure. But if I was pregnant from rape and could not receive a GUARANTEE he could never ever get any parental rights, I WOULD abort. It's the one scenario I feel comfortable with being so definite.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

I remember reading those rape articles but I couldn't find anything where a rapist actually DID win visitation?

The grandparents should have no rights as they've never established a relationship with the child.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Here's something I just read, about a man facing murder charges for tricking his girlfriend into taking abortion pills

kjrh.com/dpp/news/national/FBI-Florida-man-John-Weldon-charged-with-murder-for-tricking-girlfriend-into-taking-abortion-pill

[Nothing2CHere]

Resurrecting this thread to share that the kidnapper had actually taken a plea deal - life without parole plus 1,000 years (yes, one thousand years). He's being sentenced right now. Here's some info from the local paper if anyone wants to read: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... hat_w.html

[Jesus Camp Counselor]

Did you watch his statement? It was sickening. He blamed his acts on sexual addiction. He brought up the fact that the girls got in his car when they should have known better. Also, he thinks is apparently relevant that they weren't virgins. He claimed that the sex was all consensual. The more he spoke about being a victim, the more I knew that his sentence was going to be closer to the recommended 1000 years.

When the judge began speaking again, he mentioned Castro's daughter was in the house and witness to the horrors. Castro denied that she saw anything.

Of course the fact that he blames the victims had me thinking of FJ. I suppose SSM will be his new prison pen pal.

[Alice_Fraggle]

Did you watch his statement? It was sickening. He blamed his acts on sexual addiction. He brought up the fact that the girls got in his car when they should have known better. Also, he thinks is apparently relevant that they weren't virgins. He claimed that the sex was all consensual. The more he spoke about being a victim, the more I knew that his sentence was going to be closer to the recommended 1000 years.

When the judge began speaking again, he mentioned Castro's daughter was in the house and witness to the horrors. Castro denied that she saw anything.

Of course the fact that he blames the victims had me thinking of FJ. I suppose SSM will be his new prison pen pal.

I didn't hear any of that! (Well, I heard about the sex addict thing - which is bullpoop!) I do have to admit that I love the sentence of 1000 years! Not really long enough in my opinion, but either way he'll (hopefully) die alone.

Is there a chance that he can be paroled or try to have the case re-tried?

[tuckerphez]

Michelle Knight got to call out Castro in the courtroom.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ss ... kni_1.html

This part was heartbreaking though:

"The years turned into eternity. I knew nobody cared about me," Knight said. "He told me my family didn’t care. Christmas was the most traumatic day because I never got to spend it with my son."

[Nothing2CHere]

I did not watch his statement, but a Facebook friend posted something about how he just needed to shut up, right now, so I went searching and did find a live feed. I caught the tale end of the judge basically calling bullshit on Catro's excuses, saying that if he was addicted there was help he could have gotten.

The sentence is supposed to be no parole.

[Jesus Camp Counselor]

I didn't hear any of that! (Well, I heard about the sex addict thing - which is bullpoop!) I do have to admit that I love the sentence of 1000 years! Not really long enough in my opinion, but either way he'll (hopefully) die alone.

Is there a chance that he can be paroled or try to have the case re-tried?

It was life without the possibility of parole, plus 1000 years. He's not getting out. There was no trial because of the plea deal.

[merrily]

I don't understand how someone that is caught doing something as awful as imprisoning/raping/torturing people still pulls the victim card. Shades of Bundy... only he's not charismatic at all.

[FiddleDD]

I caught bits and pieces of him talking today, it truly was sickening. He is obviously not repentant at all.

I just watched Michelle Knight's statement. She is amazingly strong to have stood there in front of him, especially when it seems she had it the worst out of the three. It was sad because I don't know if her family cared about her. I just read an article that said someone was still cashing her SSI checks while she was missing.

The article also said the officer who rescued her thought she was just a little girl when he first saw her, she was so emaciated. On the video of her statement today you can see how TINY she is. That poor girl didn't have a chance of fighting back. It sickens me to think of him beating that fragile young woman.

[wild little fox]

Actually I think the child(ren) will manage to cope with the situation better than the others. I'm thinking of Felix Fritzl, who apparently did very well after being imprisoned in the basement for his whole life (5 years).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/artic ... z2Sn2cwdhf

4 years later:

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/fe ... z2Sn25iwdN

FWIW I don't agree. In the case you stated, the boy was sheltered from the horrors that were going on. IMHO, after living in a semi isolated violent home, it is worse because I have no idea what real life is, even after all these years. I mean look how I fit in here? I don't. I experience this often in my life. That's just my opinion. FWIW.

[wild little fox]

I feel like murder implies malicious intent. So you can murder a fetus if the mother desired to carry the pregnancy to term, because that's a malicious action, but a woman who aborts a fetus is (in the vast majority of cases, I guess there might be psychopaths out there who do it for fun) not doing it with malicious intent, so it's not murder. It's kind of like, if a family decides to take a loved one off life support, it's not murder... but if someone else comes along and yanks the cord out of the wall without the family's consent, it is murder.

I think it should be considered murder. It is well documented in homes where the male is an abuser the abuse escalates during pregnancy. Also, IIRC, a woman is more likely to die (or is it murdered?)* when she is pregnant. She is murdered by her partner.

* I don't recall if it is all deaths of women (including accidents, murder and illness) or all women who are murdered.

[sparkles]

No matter how many years in prison this animal receives, it will never, ever make up for the years he stole from these three incredibly strong survivors--Amanda, Gina and Michelle. Ever.

May he rot in hell for all eternity.

[Dinaberries]

I know a lot of people here are anti death penalty but with cases this heinous, I wish that the perpetrators would get death. The conditions in prison are too humane for Ariel Castro. But really, the process of lethal injection is to humane for him as well. I hope he's kept in general population. Does anybody know about that?

[jenny_islander]

I know a lot of people here are anti death penalty but with cases this heinous, I wish that the perpetrators would get death. The conditions in prison are too humane for Ariel Castro. But really, the process of lethal injection is to humane for him as well. I hope he's kept in general population. Does anybody know about that?

I don't think wishing agony and torment upon him is good for a person, and I don't want prisons to be used as instruments of agony and torment. But he has demonstrated by his actions that he is devoted to things that destroy other people and willing to kill in order to get what he wants, and he has made it clear by his statements that he would do it again if he hadn't been caught. I think that is the kind of person the death penalty should be for. I think he should die, not as a deterrent or punishment, but to remove him.

[Dinaberries]

I don't think wishing agony and torment upon him is good for a person, and I don't want prisons to be used as instruments of agony and torment. But he has demonstrated by his actions that he is devoted to things that destroy other people and willing to kill in order to get what he wants, and he has made it clear by his statements that he would do it again if he hadn't been caught. I think that is the kind of person the death penalty should be for. I think he should die, not as a deterrent or punishment, but to remove him.

You're right. I just often have a hard time removing my emotions from some of my views. My grandfather was actually a corrections officer for years and he often told me how opposed to he was to prison violence being used as punishment, and hated that lots of co's would encourage and even facilitate it. But when someone hurts vulnerable people and shows no remorse, I have a hard time not wanting them to hurt similarly. I'm trying to work on that because I want to be a more noble person and not allow people like Ariel Castro to bring out the worst in me.

Edited because of a typo that looked like poor grammar. =p

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't approve of prison violence or the death penalty per se....but if a guard should happen to turn his back, and Castro ended up dying with his head in a toilet like Dahmer did, I don't think the earth would miss him.

Michelle Knight is an amazing woman. I hope she find the love and support she'll need.

[bananacat]

I think it's ok to have those feelings of wishing harm on him. It's a normal reaction and you generally can't just stop feeling something, and you don't even need to feel guilty for having those thoughts. The important thing is to remember that although you have those feelings, it wouldn't actually be a good thing to to have a system that would torture and/or execute Castro.

[Lillybee]

Castro still wants his daughter by rape to visit him.