How to fit as many children as possible into a bedroom

[HoneyBunny]

I agree with the egress issue. I'm sure that CPS would have something to say about that, even if they'd consider everything else she espouses just fine.

She's way too proud of herself for my taste. No self-deprecating humor at all. Reminds me of Mrs. Always Learning (aka Preaching). She really lost me when she felt compelled to go into her beauty regimen and tell us where, how often and what products she purchases. She's completely convinced her way is best.

I've never, in my entire life, felt that way. :?

[Feberin]

It's not that I have anything wrong, in principle, with several children sharing a room, especially if that's what they prefer. Two bunk beds don't take up that much more space than two regular beds, and many families do find it practical to keep the toys out of the bedroom and limit the bedroom to sleeping.

I have no issue with kids sharing rooms. While I didn't share with a sibling growing up I did share with my grandmother who lived with us for half the year. I do think I learned skills that came in handy later when I was in a tiny college dorm with roommates. We have a three bedroom house and want a third child. But one of the bedrooms in the same size as a master bedroom so two kids could easily share that bedroom.

I'm also a big believer in bedrooms for sleeping or quiet activites. My three-year-old son has a fairly large room that has extra space but we keep very few toys (just a set of wooden blocks, stuffed animals, baby dolls and accessories) in his room. He does keep his large collection of books in his room. Every day he has to go up to his room for a little while to try to nap but it's only a couple times a week that he'll actually sleep. However if he had tons of toys up there he'd probably never sleep. He's encouraged to look at books and generally be quiet. If he starts getting too crazy then I'll go up and read to him to try to help him calm down. He gets cranky in the evenings so he needs time to rest his body even if it's looking at books not actually sleeping.

I wonder why Erika's three year old couldn't have a similar naptime routine? It totally beats caging a child with a crib tent and keeping them up until 10:30 PM to ensure a nap each day. It sounds like her two year old son naps without issue so why not have him sleep in the walk in closet or *gasp* in her bed!

[patsymae]

"I'm also a big believer in bedrooms for sleeping or quiet activities."

That. Houses used to be much smaller, and the idea that every child needs their own room, with a bathroom attached, in order to have space to "live"--ie, individual study space, do their hobbies in their own room, their own Tvs, etc.--really came about only in the greed/spend/building boom/money boom era of the '80s. If you grew up then, which would make you a young parent now, that would influence your idea of what a home should be--big problem, as nobody has any money now either, and people have to live in the houses and apartments that they can afford. There's IMO nothing wrong with children sharing (if age and sex appropriate, rooms, or even beds (not Duggar style, but two kids in a double/queen bed). The 4-year-old twins in my family share a bed by choice (sure that will change as they grow older). If bedrooms are used for sleeping, changing clothes, and quiet activities such as reading, studying, or probably even incessant texting to friends, there's no reason for people to feel bad that they can't provide each kid with their own private hotel. That does mean, though, that the children need to have other spaces, both within and without the home, to engage in normal human activities.

Times are tough now and many (most?) of us have to live with what we have. I don't see the problem with that. It's not the space, it's the attitude and the way the family lives. The Duggars have plenty of space to give the older girls and the older boys their own sleeping quarters, even if shared with the siblings of their own age. They don't do it because they don't want their children to have any moments of physical or psychological privacy. The blogger won't just come out and say "This is what we can afford, so this is what we are doing,"--which so many people could identify with now--but instead has to pontificate on how this arrangement is just so, so much holier than those of the "other" people.

Send your kids to school. Let them spend time outside the house with friends. Let them be part of a sports team or the chorus or the orchestra or the chess club. Let them leave the house before their early/mid-20s, and do things like volunteer at a coffee shop without having to get parental agreement and pre-negotiations with a sibling "accountability partner." Have dinner with the family at a set time if that is important to you, and have a family game night, or church attendance, or whatever is important to you, as a family.

Then the tired children can go to bed in a shared room.Won't kill them. People who live outside US MacMansions do it all the time, and everybody is just fine.

[Feberin]

ciaquote="patsymae"]

That. Houses used to be much smaller, and the idea that every child needs their own room, with a bathroom attached, in order to have space to "live"--ie, individual study space, do their hobbies in their own room, their own Tvs, etc.--really came about only in the greed/spend/building boom/money boom era of the '80s. If you grew up then, which would make you a young parent now, that would influence your idea of what a home should be--big problem, as nobody has any money now either, and people have to live in the houses and apartments that they can afford.

[Maggie Mae]

*SMILE* Is it gone? *WINK*

[Wolfie]

That. Houses used to be much smaller, and the idea that every child needs their own room, with a bathroom attached, in order to have space to "live"--ie, individual study space, do their hobbies in their own room, their own Tvs, etc.--really came about only in the greed/spend/building boom/money boom era of the '80s. If you grew up then, which would make you a young parent now, that would influence your idea of what a home should be--big problem, as nobody has any money now either, and people have to live in the houses and apartments that they can afford. There's IMO nothing wrong with children sharing (if age and sex appropriate, rooms, or even beds (not Duggar style, but two kids in a double/queen bed). The 4-year-old twins in my family share a bed by choice (sure that will change as they grow older). If bedrooms are used for sleeping, changing clothes, and quiet activities such as reading, studying, or probably even incessant texting to friends, there's no reason for people to feel bad that they can't provide each kid with their own private hotel. That does mean, though, that the children need to have other spaces, both within and without the home, to engage in normal human activities.

Times are tough now and many (most?) of us have to live with what we have. I don't see the problem with that. It's not the space, it's the attitude and the way the family lives. The Duggars have plenty of space to give the older girls and the older boys their own sleeping quarters, even if shared with the siblings of their own age. They don't do it because they don't want their children to have any moments of physical or psychological privacy. The blogger won't just come out and say "This is what we can afford, so this is what we are doing,"--which so many people could identify with now--but instead has to pontificate on how this arrangement is just so, so much holier than those of the "other" people.

Send your kids to school. Let them spend time outside the house with friends. Let them be part of a sports team or the chorus or the orchestra or the chess club. Let them leave the house before their early/mid-20s, and do things like volunteer at a coffee shop without having to get parental agreement and pre-negotiations with a sibling "accountability partner." Have dinner with the family at a set time if that is important to you, and have a family game night, or church attendance, or whatever is important to you, as a family.

Then the tired children can go to bed in a shared room.Won't kill them. People who live outside US MacMansions do it all the time, and everybody is just fine.

There is a big difference between "every child needs their own room" and putting kids in sleeping situations that are unsafe- like beds in front of windows, cribs under heavy objects on the walls, mini cribs for babies who are too old, and crib tents.

[Queen Of Hearts]

Good news for anyone who follows Erica's blog *smile*... today on Facebook she mentioned they are looking to get two parakeets! Now, this woman hates a mess and detects all kinds of odd smells (she has said she smells dust in her home) so how she will cope with birds is beyond me. I know from past experience that feathers and seed get everywhere, and the droppings don't have the pleasant aroma that Erica desires. *laugh* I can't wait to hear about the strict schedule she puts those poor birds on!

[Salamander]

The Facebook status:

PARAKEET OWNERS - We are looking to buy 2 birds (blue and/or green) with a cage and supplies from someone local if anyone knows of someone who wants to sell! =) And, we would love to receive any ADVICE from you experienced parakeet owners! Things to do or not to do, buy or not buy, etc.

I've never had parakeets. Are the blue- and green-colored birds associated with a certain temperament? Like, are they calmer or more sociable or something?

One of her comments on the Facebook status:

[Tag 1], great thanks! So no "treats" necessary? But fresh fruit or veggies good/necessary? [Tag 2], we live in Mount Vernon Washington (by Seattle). [Tag 3], we won't be training them outside of the cage (I don't want poop anywhere, and don't want to deal with the kids handling them anyway), thanks though! [Tag 4], we use Teflon every day right now (on a special diet for the next several months). ={ But I've heard people say that it's not big of a deal, and if our kitchen is well ventilated it'll be fine (open to dinning room and family room, forced air heat...)???

I replaced the names she tagged in the post with Tag # in brackets.

As for the bolded: I've never owned small indoor birds. But my family has chickens :animals-chicken: (fuck yeah smilies) and they shit everywhere. Birds are messy: chickens love taking dirt baths and caged birds scatter bedding. It is complicated but possible to potty train birds to crap where you want them to, though at some point she will have bird poop outside the cage. I don't really get it. If she doesn't want to deal with poop or the kids handling them, why not get a fish? :animals-fishgreen: (Hot damn do I love smilies.) Assuming she wants a decorative pet, lots of fish species fit the bill, and they'll also help teach the kids responsibility if that's what she's after in getting an animal, though I don't agree with either of those being the sole or primary reasons for getting a pet, especially in a fundie family. I really don't think parakeets are the best choice for them.

[formergothardite]

So she wants a pet that doesn't make a mess and the kids can't touch. Has she considered a pet rock? That might suit her personality better.

[ILoveJellybeans]

Erica will go insane with the parakeets.

Not a very good idea for someone who hates any form of mess or dirt.

She should get a fish, theyre less mess.

[thoughtful]

Salamander, your comment is on the money. Birds as ornaments is one of my pet peeves about pet owners.

Most birds are social, and they need interaction, affection, stimulation, and the opportunity to move. I guess they think they are "solving" that problem by getting two, but it's really not enough.

Budgerigars (what Americans call parakeets) need to be busy, and can learn a lot:

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Not to mention, budgies and their supplies are very easy to find in pet stores -- it's incredibly cheap of her to try to find "used" birds and a cage.

At least they are not getting a parrot -- that would be hell for all concerned.

edited for clarity

[Rita]

So much for her undisturbed nights and her afternoon quiet times. I could never sleep once the danged parakeets woke up. Turned me off birds as pets forever. (The roosters didn't help the case, either.)

I can't see her with these birds. How did she get manipulated into getting them, and how fast will she do a 180? How will she explain it?

edited: because I forgot my point

[Hane]

Love parakeets! My sister had one that learned to talk. We'd hear him calling out, in Dad's voice, "Reveille! Rise and shine!" and in Mom's, "Ya wanna sandwich?" He also quoted from commercials.

Another one she had used to do tricks.

[littlemommy]

I've had budgies off and on since I was a teenager. They don't stink, but birds have a smell, a definite "bird" odor. And messy? Hells yes. Even with the seed catcher on the cage they are messy. I haven't had a bird in four years but I still occasionally find a bird seed.

[Maggie Mae]

Oh no no no. She needs to do her research. Birds are not for everyone.

And yes, the Teflon pan IS a big deal. Those birds, if they get any, will be dead. Please don't ask me how I know.

At least she doesn't want to get a full sized macaw.

[SpinachandChickpeas]

I just looked through this blog briefly and this woman consistently spells the word "straight" as "strait." Multiple times in multiple blog posts. It's so scary to me how many of these home-schooling moms seem unable to pass third grade.

[Lulu]

Just looking over at our cage and 3 cockatiels and I laugh at the mess. Birdie poop down the wall, poop and seed in a 1m radius round the cage. And I cleaned it yesterday! And the noise, oh boy the noise! The louder the kids get the louder the birds are which makes the kids louder and then the birds louder GAH! Nope definately not a pet for a quiet or clean loving person.

[chaotic life]

When all of the kids are gone DH and I talk about getting parrots. When I only had a few kids, I had parakeets. However, they are SO noisy and take SO much work that I refuse to have them with all of the kids now. I love birds. I really do. I just recognize that they will add more noise to this zoo than anything but the children and I cannot handle that right now. For now, the kids will have to settle for the vocalizations of the guinea pigs and toads cause I cannot properly care for birds and the children.

NO idea what she is thinking, and yes the teflon is a VERY big deal.

[Salamander]

When all of the kids are gone DH and I talk about getting parrots. When I only had a few kids, I had parakeets. However, they are SO noisy and take SO much work that I refuse to have them with all of the kids now. I love birds. I really do. I just recognize that they will add more noise to this zoo than anything but the children and I cannot handle that right now. For now, the kids will have to settle for the vocalizations of the guinea pigs and toads cause I cannot properly care for birds and the children.

NO idea what she is thinking, and yes the teflon is a VERY big deal.

How are parakeets (and other indoor birds, I assume) more work than guinea pigs? I'm curious because the only birds I've ever had have been chickens, which are really low-maintenance.

[browngrl]

The woman who writes this blog is a tool *smile*.

I have no kids and so I don't have any experience in housing children but my sister and her husband are paediatricians (her husband is an emergency medicine pediatrician). When they were furnishing their cottage - my sister thought about getting bunk beds (so the children would have a place for friends to sleep when they brought company to the cottage). Her husband POINT BLANK refused to even consider a bunk bed. He said he sees too many children who fall from the top bunk and suffer broken bones or head injuries. They ended up getting two trundle beds instead.

[Arete]

How are parakeets (and other indoor birds, I assume) more work than guinea pigs? I'm curious because the only birds I've ever had have been chickens, which are really low-maintenance.

Not speaking for chaotic life, just giving my experience as a multiple keet owner in my wicked youth. Parakeets actually need quite a bit of human affection. It's not just change the water, take care of the seed, keep the cage clean. They love hoping on your fingers or landing on you knee, mine particularly loved the finger-thumb belly move-they would hop on my finger and expect me to stroke their "bellies". And I am talking about this was a routine, and if that routine was not met within 15 minutes of my getting up and coming home from school, much outraged sqwaking would ensue. The need a bit of one on one time with their humans to learn to vocalize some simple words. They will tweet a "song" every morning. They also enjoy putting on little "shows" for you with their toys like strings and bells. If I wasn't so set on getting a new feline headship, I would have several parakeet headships.

Back to the regularly scheduled programming.

[Magdelope]

Ugh. It hurts me that she says that they won't be trained to be outside of the cage.

I've had several budgies as a teenager. My dad helped me build a huuuuuuge cage, because I had about 11 of them at the most, but all of them got to come out and play.

Can you imagine being stuck in a cage for their ENTIRE life. Ugh, no, don't even want to think about it. It makes me too upset.

I love birds.

[Sydney Fox]

Ugh. It hurts me that she says that they won't be trained to be outside of the cage.

I've had several budgies as a teenager. My dad helped me build a huuuuuuge cage, because I had about 11 of them at the most, but all of them got to come out and play.

Can you imagine being stuck in a cage for their ENTIRE life. Ugh, no, don't even want to think about it. It makes me too upset.

I love birds.

It sounds like what she is doing to her kids as well. Got to keep all those varmints contained. Erika has major control issues, and really isn't capable of raising all those kids and birds too without her head popping off.

[longskirtlotsakids]

*Smile* How excited can you get over "mom tips?" *scratches private area* The whole "I rotate my kids clothes according to the season" subject isn't exactly worthy of a three page article. I continue to be amazed at how fascinated fundies seem to be with simple things like food and cleaning *burp* Isn't pinning back a curtain and putting a six year old's small toys out of reach of toddlers something they cover in Red Cross babysitting courses? *faaaaaart, screams at kids*

(Correcting the whole *smile* *chuckle* thing. I love how she wants the mental picture of the reader to be one of a prim and delicate quiet mother, ever patient and maternal. Um, I don't believe it, not for a second. Not with 5 kids to a room. That has got to be hell with many sleepless mights)

[bananacat]

*Smile* How excited can you get over "mom tips?" *scratches private area* The whole "I rotate my kids clothes according to the season" subject isn't exactly worthy of a three page article. I continue to be amazed at how fascinated fundies seem to be with simple things like food and cleaning *burp* Isn't pinning back a curtain and putting a six year old's small toys out of reach of toddlers something they cover in Red Cross babysitting courses? *faaaaaart, screams at kids*

(Correcting the whole *smile* *chuckle* thing. I love how she wants the mental picture of the reader to be one of a prim and delicate quiet mother, ever patient and maternal. Um, I don't believe it, not for a second. Not with 5 kids to a room. That has got to be hell with many sleepless mights)

I literally snorted while laughing at this, and I lament that I have but one "like" to give to the comment.