Close Encounters of the Fundie Kind

[August]

Yes, Brigitta was almost the hardest to listen to - she definitely felt like the one who had wrestled with having some independent thought and then succumbed to fundie-think. It was sad that she ended up landing on giving it up, staying-at-home, and then marrying young. I hope her husband gives her space to express some of that and they can build a healthier lifestyle.

I hope they're sub fertile so she has space to develop her own personality.

[neuroticcat]

The 25 year old who does nothing but housework, with a mother who also does nothing but housework, in a house with four adults. What a waste. What an empty, sad, wasted life.

Did she look like she'd catch the eye of a young man who'd be willing to jump through her father's hoops?

It's so tough to say. One was recently married. One other seemed to have some personality - she is the one who took doula classes and is doing correspondence Bible school and loves hospitality. In my opinion, she would be a "good catch", but who knows what the fundies are looking for? Perhaps she is too strong-willed. The two other young women felt like they had completely given in to the system. Docile, submissive, party line, and bland. But then that may be exactly what the young men are looking for.

I know they were doing a panel for the young men - very curious as to what they said.

I was watching Master Chef Junior tonight - such a fun show! - and was impressed by these confident, articulate, 9, 10, and 11 year olds who were pursuing their dreams. And I thought: I wish those young women could have this. Not cooking, per se, but the pursuit of their dreams, the belief in themselves, and the healthy pride in their accomplishments. I hope they break free on their own.

[Othello]

Lots of good stuff and excellent reporting

Just have to say here that NeuroticCat is a bit of brilliance! Good work going in and gathering some evidence!

On the bright side of the Close Encounters theme, I met a couple of very nice young ladies whose families had been Mennonite; they described the cyclical pattern of tradition in the community – young women are usually "asked out" when they turn 18 and are married before they turn 20. Young men stay in the community (having also married young) and are farmers etc. Thankfully for these young ladies their families had left Mennonitism and they were both wearing pants (*gasp*), NOT wearing coverings (*oh no!*), and both studying nursing in college (*horrors!*).

[stonefruit]

Through a series of random connections that I probably shouldn't share online, I met a woman who moved here with her four children and pastor husband as part of an Acts 29 network church plant. She's homeschooling two of the kids but the other two are in public school. I feel that I exercised formidable restraint in not peppering her with questions about Mark Driscoll! :)

Here = large, coastal, secular city with a very progressive bent. I truly do not understand the choice.

[Minnesota]

Not really on topic but I'm not sure where to post this (I'm new-ish).

Has anybody read the Large Families on Purpose Blog? Run by Erika Shupe, the blog is extremely fundie. Just wondering what you all thought about it?

[RachelB]

Not really on topic but I'm not sure where to post this (I'm new-ish).

Has anybody read the Large Families on Purpose Blog? Run by Erika Shupe, the blog is extremely fundie. Just wondering what you all thought about it?

There are some posts about her on the forum:

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=20997

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=16752

Maybe start there, then see if there's something you want to add-- there are a number of posters who follow her.

[tankgirl]

Not a real life encounter but excitement none the less, a very liberal friend just posted a warning from a liberal site, calling PP on his crazy rants. It was such a small world moment, FJ never seems to cross over, never thought it would come through her, though she should totally know about his crazies.

[FJismyheadship]

I just learned through a friend who used to be fundie, but has relaxed a lot since being out in the world that students who went to Champion Baptist DID used to sneak out after curfew! And the alarm on the door they used hasn't been fixed yet, so probably students still are haha. Although the college has actually relaxed a lot of rules in the last few years (girls can wear pants! Music that isn't Christian is allowed!) My dad thinks they are trying to get accredited.

Which makes me wonder. If someone got their teaching degree through that college when they weren't accredited, but then the college became accredited, does that mean that the person with the teaching degree could work in a public school or somewhere that requires an accredited college degree?

[jerkit]

I went to a masters graduation ceremony yesterday. One of the physical therapy graduates had a BS from Pensacola.

1. I thought they were unaccredited. How the heck did he get into an actual university?

2. The university is catholic. Fundie goes to catholic grad school?! No, I can't believe it.

[mockingbird]

Not a "real life" encounter either, but someone I know from real life! I was creepong on a FB friend yesterday for his very long and very pretentious posts (he needs a blog, he's my new favorite person to hate-read lol). We were friends in college and he was not pretentious when I knew him lol. Just very nerdy, but not high-and-mighty about it. So anyway he got into this debate about religion and all of a sudden he mentions doing "discipleship" with men from the International Church of Christ and how they have changed some of his views. The name sounded familiar from FJ, and yep the second hit from Google was the REVEAL recovery website. Just found and re-read a thread about them too. I hope he doesn't fall for it... I kind-of think he would be vulnerable to cult tactics. I didn't even know him that well in college past freshman year but he just seems to me like the type of person who is being pretentious not because he is truly arrogant, but to cover up for insecurities - and a culty church that makes him feel important and pushes pseudointellectualism (ala his FB posts*) through bible study seems right up his alley. I don't know if it would be appropriate to post a link to the REVEAL site on his page or if it would just make him cling to the discipleship group more. I think he probably just didn't find a Bible Study or young adult group for his religion easily and was lovebombed, and was like "sure why not, who cares if they are a different denomination, we can engage in intelligent debate and learn from each other!" EXCEPT CULT.

*He's actually smart and if he got out of his head/toned down the pretentiousness a bit, he could probably run a very intelligent pop culture criticism blog or something to that nature.

[for_the_Kitties]

My fundie-lite relative strikes again: Despite having a graduate degree from a prestigious university and marrying into a military family with science backgrounds, She INSISTS on believing this hoopla (linked below) about creationism! :pull-hair:

http://creation.com/is-evolution-anti-r ... wbgSM.like

(link not broken because I doubt they care)

I cannot understand her ignorance.

The best part is, when VF went under and they started selling everything off on their website, she (being the good christian she is) shared it on FB saying "Great resources for my dear friends with little ones so they can purpose their learning to be good Christians" or some other fundie-speak filled phrase. They were not VF but I am afraid for her children if she is now pumping them full of VF garbage. :angry-banghead:

[Howl]

I think I've have some fundie-lite encounters recently but I'm not sure.

The first is Gabrielle Reese, wife of surfer Laird Hamilton. Although I have not seen religion referenced in ANY of the articles about her latest book, My Foot is Too Big for the Glass Slipper, there are many on line articles like this one:Gabrielle Reece defends her comments about being ‘submissive’ in marriage (The volleyball star spoke to Chelsea Handler about the way ‘feminists got up in arms’ with her definition of the woman’s role in a marriage.)

Some quotes from the article:

She defended her words on "Chelsea Lately" Wednesday when she told Chelsea, “What I said was that I was choosing to take on this service or submissive role [in my marriage]. The feminists got up in arms because they took it out of context.â€

“I think it’s a blessing for us that we’ve gone through a bunch of different things in our relationship, which has allowed us to arrive here today,â€

“I think the idea of living with a partner is ‘How can I make their life better,’†she said when asked if women need to serve or please their men better. “If I’m the woman and he’s the man then yes that’s the dynamic I’m willing and I choose to serve my family and my husband.â€

“[being submissive] creates a dynamic where he is then in fact acting more like a man and masculine and treating me the way I want to be treated,†she added. “I like to be cherished and I’d like someone to look after me as well in that role.â€

She is also a firm believer in sex a minimum of 3 times a week whether she feels like it or not, because man.

*****************************************************************************************************

The second possible encounter was at the produce section of Whole Foods. There was a woman with two children (boy and girl, maybe twins, probably around 4 years old). She was dressed in expensive, tasteful hippy chic (think Anthroplogie) with a long cotton skirt like this and her daughter was wearing an identical long skirt. What caught my attention was her children's behavior. I saw them several other times as I was searching for various items. The kids kept their hands in their pockets the ENTIRE time, followed closely behind their mom and never let out a peep the ENTIRE time and the kids were not interacting with each other as most siblings do. I guess I can characterize their behavior as subdued.

I can't tell you how remarkably unusual this is in ANY store or any public setting.

Had I not been reading FJ for the last few months, I wouldn't have thought anything about it. Maybe she is totally secular and her clothing just reflected her particular taste on that day and she is some miracle mom, but the long skirt and the kids' behavior twanged my newly emerging fund-dar.

[Dandruff]

I had a fundie encounter at Walmart. Another woman and I started randomly chatting about clothing, which led to her telling me that she's saved and owes everything to Jesus. Normally I'd detach myself ASAP but I didn't mind the distraction from my shopping experience (I really don't enjoy shopping there). She of course wanted to know what I believe, and I told her. What was interesting is that we had a good conversation despite very different beliefs and her eventual realization that she couldn't get me to budge. She seemed intelligent and pleasant, was willing to listen - as was I, and wasn't pushing too hard. We agreed to disagree on a bunch of things. Maybe she also wanted a distraction.

Anyway, this was the first time in my life I've had more than a brief conversation with a fundie without feeling, at the least, very imposed upon. I don't expect it to ever happen like that again.

[shard1118]

Here is my Fundie story...There was a nerdy guy from high school...over 35 years ago I might add who found me on Facebook. He had a habit of sending me private messages commenting on a post or comment on a post in which he felt he had to "teach" me the errors of my thoughts, he did this many times and I would generally not respond. In February he private messaged me after I had commented on Gay marriage as a right as an American citizen , My comment was not to him but to an actual friend who posted something....

He private messaged me with..."I saw your reply to the post about gay marriage. As a Christian with the gift of prophecy, let me share with you a few Bible passages regarding the practice of homosexuality...."

I responded back to him...

"You are certainly entitled to your beliefs, and I see how committed you are to your faith, but your word is not absolute and neither is mine; it's God's. The Bible was not handed to mankind by God, nor was it dictated to human stenographers by God. It has nothing to do with God. In actuality, the Bible was VOTED to be the word of God by a group of men during the 4th century. These corrupt men decided what they would keep and what they would banish based on what was best suited for them at the time. There are The Gnostic Gospels; the Gospels of Thomas, The Gospels of the Lord, The Gospels of Mary, The Gospels of the Pistis Sophia, the Coptic Gospels which were real and existed but not included in the bible that Constantine wanted included. If your going to use the Bible as the word of God, shouldn't all of the Gospels be included?

Consider all of the people who live in the remote regions of the world who have never even heard the gospel of Jesus Christ. Consider the people who have naturally adhered to the religion of their parents and nation as they had been taught to do since birth. Are we to believe then that all of these people will perish in the eternal fire for not believing in Jesus if they never knew he existed? It does not matter how just, kind, and generous they have been with their fellow humans during their lifetime: if they do not accept the gospel of Jesus, they are condemned? I believe a just God would judge a man by his actions how he lived his life, if he was a loving and kind person who did good works, loved his fellow man and tried to make the world in which God created a better place. Do you know anyone who practices a different faith than you do? I do, and they are loving, caring people who live life trying to be good examples and do good works and be devoted to the faith that they do believe.

My personal belief is that God loves us despite religion not because of religion. Zealous Religious beliefs has caused more wars, more hate more suffering to humanity than people just loving and accepting each other ever will. Pope Francis quoting from the Gospel of Mark recently said that "The Lord created us in His image and likeness, and we are the image of the Lord, and He does good and all of us have this commandment at heart: do good and do not do evil. All of us". Jesus didn't reserve those words for self-proclaimed Christians. I believe that God who would disapprove of using him as an excuse to hate. Do good works, love one another and don't judge other people; it is not our place.

This is my last discussion with you on religion. Despite your views, I choose not to judge you. Quoting the bible to me is not going to change my mind, or save my soul. I truly have been blessed by God by virtue of the fact that he has given me a wonderful family, the chance to live a life in comfort and do good works for other people. I am not concerned about my eternal soul. I have peace with who I am and what I believe. No one on this earth is perfect so I will continue to give praise and thanks to God for all that he has given me and to be a good example as a loving compassionate person."

And with that...he has not contacted me since...

[Howl]

"As a Christian with the gift of prophecy....."

I'm sure he has no idea of the complete arrogance inherent in that statement, or that he sounds delusional.

Thank you for sharing your beautiful and reasoned response to him.

[yetanothermeg]

"As a Christian with the gift of prophecy....."

I'm sure he has no idea of the complete arrogance inherent in that statement, or that he sounds delusional.

Thank you for sharing your beautiful and reasoned response to him.

If he REALLY had the gift of prophecy, he would have known you would tell him to buzz off.

[paintergurl]

Years ago I ran into the wife of one of my high school friends at Walmart. It took some long moments to process what I was seeing. She was alone, leading a herd of 7 or 8 children, all under age ten. She could not have been more than 30 years old, was neat and clean and perfectly composed, as were every one of her eerily silent children. I spoke to her for a minute or 2, but she was clearly uncomfortable. As was I, with 2 toddlers of my own to wrangle. And I am certain that I was looking as frazzled as a young mother should be with 2 babies. At Walmart. I remember being extremely creeped out. By her politely cool, somewhat unfriendly behavior. But mostly by her silent, way-too-well-behaved adolescent children. They made me think of little zombies.

I did find out later that my high school friend, her husband, had become a Baptist minister. Now I know that there was probably much more to it than that. Last I heard, they had more than 10 children, and that was a few years ago.

[mockingbird]

Ahaha. My fundy Facebook friend is going to see Sara Bareilles this summer ("Love Song", "Brave"). I don't think she's aware that Sara's favorite word is "fuck" (which, if you spend any time at all watching videos of her non-TV performances or have listened to her EP, you should know). I saw her in concert and she was amazing, but lots of swearing. I am looking forward to the fallout after my friend goes to this concert... lol

[anti-antichoice]

I was riding the bus in Chicago today and saw of group of people who I can only assume were Mennonites, one of them was carrying a Coach purse.

[redcurls]

Every time there is an update to this thread, I hope/expect to hear from someone who has run into Doug Phillips Is A Tool And A Rapist. Seriously, SOMEONE has to have seen or heard something about his new everyday life. He can't hide forever!

[ViolaSebastian]

I was riding the bus in Chicago today and saw of group of people who I can only assume were Mennonites, one of them was carrying a Coach purse.

Once I went on a trip to Amish country in Ohio with some of my cousins. We were on the porch of the hotel relaxing and I remember seeing a young Mennonite woman walking along and she pulled out at iphone! We were so surprised and still laugh about it to this day.

Another interesting part of that trip was that we were invited into the house a swartzentruber Amish family, which is one of the more extreme sects of Amish. It was utterly fascinating to see how this family lived, particularly because one of the woman's grandchildren was a man with Down's Syndrome whom she watched for his mother. So that was a fascinating dynamic. Of course, being the person that I am, the best bit was when she let me try her old Bernina that she had redone and put on a TREADLE. It was really something and took a great deal of coordination to get moving!

[Vivi_music]

I also have a FB ''acquaintance'' (knew her from high school but haven't really talked to her since so she's not really my friend) that I suspect is becoming fundie lite. She got married recently, moved to another province and slowly started posting about her Bible study group, posting Bible quotes very often on FB. At first I wasn't suspicious of anything. Okay, most of the people I know aren't religious, so it's unusual for me to see Bible quotes on my FB newsfeed. But considering everything I read on fundie blogs, it's not too extreme. It's only recently, when I saw her wearing long frumpy skirt in all of her pictures, that I wondered if she might have turned fundie lite. I decided to do a little investigating of my own and called some of my hs friends I still keep in touch with. Apparently, she became religious before marrying this guy, but since then, they both got really into it. She also stopped working, which really saddened me. Oh and she's pregnant too.

The only thing that reassures me is that I went to high school with her and I know she wasn't raised fundie. So she really chose this lifestyle.

[Hane]

My daughter will be playing Maria in The Sound of Music at a community theater this month. Yesterday she told me that the guy playing the Captain is refusing to kiss her because he and his wife are Born Agains and object on religious grounds. (She also said that he keeps using this inconsistent fake British accent and she hopes the director can get him to knock it off.)

[anniebgood]

On our journey to deliver my daughter to her new home in Chicago, we drove I-40 from Barstow to Oklahoma and then up 44 towards IL.

Anyway, we drove across the Panhandle of TX and stopped in Amarillo at a nice welcome center to pick up our free map and see what kind of stuff they had to give away. We got a brochure about The Cross at Groom.

http://www.crossministries.net

It's this huge cross that can be seen for miles and around it are the 13 stations of the cross, a representation of the Pieta and St Michael slaying the dragon. There is also an empty tomb with an angel praying as well as a replica of the Shroud of Turin.

It wasn't very busy, but a person there said that the previous Sunday (Easter) it was packed. Most of the people we saw were older but very respectful. I don't know if the fundies would stop since a heathen Catholic built it. My mom was really impressed and it was a topic on our way back to CA.

It's not your usual fundie sighting but it was pretty in your face Catholicism.

[Hane]

I work for a utilities company. One of the guys who emails me the dispatch schedule adds a Bible verse reference (something like John 4:13) to the signature line of his emails. (His announcements re the schedule tend to be douchey and condescending.)

I SO MUCH WANT to start emailing him back with some random and meaningless Biblical verse (like Exodus 29:14).