Close Encounters of the Fundie Kind

[EmiGirl]

Wacky. What do they do for their date then? Walk around together? Sit next to each other?

I've often thought that booze-free, dance-free weddings would be ridiculously boring. What are you supposed to do at the reception? Eat a piece of cake and then talk politics?

I have no idea! I think it's completely crazy.

I had a booze and dance free wedding. Our church doesn't allow it in the Family Life Center. People seemed to enjoy the 2 chocolate fountains, lots of desserts and cakes though! I still get comments almost 5 years later that it was the best one they've been to - including those who had their receptions away from the church with dancing and alcohol.

[Hane]

I went to a dance-free, not quite booze free wedding a couple of months ago. The reception lasted about 3hrs, and I shared a table with several other girls in their late teens/early twenties. When we weren't eating or listening to long, boring speeches, we gossiped.

Friends of mine had their wedding reception in their (Methodist) church hall because they were buying a house and wanted to save money. There was a full dinner, a band, and dancing--but, per church policy, alcohol was limited to the champagne toast. I was sad to see how many people bailed the second dinner was over because they were pissed off at the lack of liquor.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I saw someone who looked so much like Joshua Titus today. Obviously it wasn't him, because he worked in a clothes shop in Manchester, UK.

[elsabee]

I just had a conversation with my Catholic friend and I'm feeling really sad now. She converted last year and has been spending more and more time with the Catholic group on campus... and is starting to feel really confused by how different the Catholic and "secular" worlds are. She was told on this retreat that she needed to start proclaiming how much she loves Jesus (because, said the speaker, people talk about how much they love bacon, so why not Jesus? Sound logic.) But she said that no secular person understands, and that she feels like she's torn between two worlds, and can't have both, that maybe she has to choose the Catholic world in order to be a good person, with all the many rules and requirements and things that separate her from the rest of the world.

I tried to kind of bring her around, but I can tell how much it's weighing on her.

I hate Catholicism.

[Hane]

elsabee, I'm 61 and from a Catholic family, and your friend's brand of Catholicism matches the one I was raised in as much as Puritans resemble hippies.

[elsabee]

elsabee, I'm 61 and from a Catholic family, and your friend's brand of Catholicism matches the one I was raised in as much as Puritans resemble hippies.

Okay -- sorry for that, then. It's good that your version of Catholicism was/is less harsh. It's just making me furious, how much this particular Catholic group at least has trapped her.

[snarkopolis]

I just had a conversation with my Catholic friend and I'm feeling really sad now. She converted last year and has been spending more and more time with the Catholic group on campus... and is starting to feel really confused by how different the Catholic and "secular" worlds are. She was told on this retreat that she needed to start proclaiming how much she loves Jesus (because, said the speaker, people talk about how much they love bacon, so why not Jesus? Sound logic.) But she said that no secular person understands, and that she feels like she's torn between two worlds, and can't have both, that maybe she has to choose the Catholic world in order to be a good person, with all the many rules and requirements and things that separate her from the rest of the world.

I tried to kind of bring her around, but I can tell how much it's weighing on her.

I hate Catholicism.

Raised Catholic, Catholic school(s) and have no idea of what you are talking about. And I have no idea of what rules your friend is talking about. We are really only required to do 1. Mass on Sunday with Communion), 2. Uhhh......oh Confession (I skip this along with every one of my friends who are Catholic), 3. No meat on Fridays during Lent, and I don't recall any other rules except Treat others the way you wish to be treated but I don't think that is exclusive to Catholics.

[elsabee]

Raised Catholic, Catholic school(s) and have no idea of what you are talking about. And I have no idea of what rules your friend is talking about. We are really only required to do 1. Mass on Sunday with Communion), 2. Uhhh......oh Confession (I skip this along with every one of my friends who are Catholic), 3. No meat on Fridays during Lent, and I don't recall any other rules except Treat others the way you wish to be treated but I don't think that is exclusive to Catholics.

See above. I was too harsh on Catholicism as a concept. I should have said, I hate this particular branch of Catholicism that she's gotten herself involved in.

Basically, they're trying to separate her from the "secular" world.

[snarkopolis]

See above. I was too harsh on Catholicism as a concept. I should have said, I hate this particular branch of Catholicism that she's gotten herself involved in.

Basically, they're trying to separate her from the "secular" world.

Honey, we aren't like Baptists. The only branches are the religious Orders. Jesuits, Benedictines, Franciscans, Carmelites. These Orders are for the religious--monks, nuns, priests. There are NO branches. Now is this religious Order trying to get her to become a nun or something?

[elsabee]

Honey, we aren't like Baptists. The only branches are the religious Orders. Jesuits, Benedictines, Franciscans, Carmelites. These Orders are for the religious--monks, nuns, priests. There are NO branches. Now is this religious Order trying to get her to become a nun or something?

I'm just repeating what she told me.

[jtd]

It sounds like she's involved with one of the weirder societies.

I have friends who are lay members of societies such as the Dominicans (yes, you can be a married Dominican, you just can't take Holy Orders and be a monk, nun or priest) and they'd regard this as extremely weird.

It might be Opus Dei, which is recognised by the Vatican, or it might be one of the anti-Vatican II societies, which are not.

Has your friend talked to a religious adviser outside of this group? It sounds incredibly unhealthy and something that is not good for her health, both mental or spiritual, according to most Catholic teaching.

If it was a genuine enclosed order, they'd be shoving her out in the world first. Convents are very particular these days, especially the enclosed ones, and they expect postulants to have proved that they know what they're giving up, to a greater or lesser extent.

[mockingbird]

There aren't official branches of Catholicism, but some areas are definitely more conservative than others. There was a thread recently about the Lincoln, NE bishop's stance on contraception. That diocese is like night and day with Omaha, and pretty much the rest of American Catholicism, IMO. I now live on the edge of the Bible Belt and I think Catholicism here has been heavily influenced by the huge local population of Evangelicals/non-denominational and fundy Christians. I feel like I was raised in a different religion sometimes when I talk to Catholics here. Also, I think sometimes youth groups and college groups can attract the more zealous members just out of virtue of being a "extra" (non-required) religious activity/group - the people who are really into their religion will gravitate towards religious activities. (Not to say that everyone who is very invested in their religion is going to be inappropriately zealous, but that those type of people WILL fall in the "interested in my religion so much I get involved with it beyond just going to church" category, so you'd have a higher percentage of them in those groups vs. the church population as a whole.) HTH... maybe (I don't know what the priests are like in your area) you could gently suggest that if she is feeling so conflicted, she could talk to a priest outside of the group she is meeting with, maybe from a different church so he's unbiased. Or contact a nun/sister.

ETA: I also think sometimes youth groups (including college) try to be more relatable by adopting the "hipster Christian" type practices or messages... like they try to make it more appealing but it tends to fall into that type of verbiage ("on fire for the Lord", "personal relationship with Jesus" type stuff), they use worship songs (obviously just the first step on the road to Protestantism i.e. false religion!!!!), and I've even seen more of the extreme modesty/waiting for marriage type stuff lately (possibly because there are more materials for teens from an Evangelical perspective so those have been adopted in? IDK, like, the Catholic Church preaches no sex before marriage, but the theology isn't the same as "giving away pieces of your heart" and that attitude would be frowned upon by most priests IMO).

[realist51]

Honey, we aren't like Baptists. The only branches are the religious Orders. Jesuits, Benedictines, Franciscans, Carmelites. These Orders are for the religious--monks, nuns, priests. There are NO branches. Now is this religious Order trying to get her to become a nun or something?

I know a Catholic family (in California) who behave very much the same way as the fundamentalist Baptists we talk about here do. Large family with a baby or two every 2-2 1/2 years; long denim skirts on the girls, homeschooling. They ARE allowing their older kids to go to small Catholic colleges, though. I don't know what order or group they belong to, but they attend services at a very small Abbey that is know for its conservative beliefs.

[FJismyheadship]

I saw someone last night downtown in a limo who looked like Doug Phillips (Curious, I typed Dough by accident and its all your fault). Anyway, after passing by a considerable distance, I yelled out loud "DOUG PHILLIPS IS A TOOL!"

I'm sure it wasn't Doug. But just in case...

[ADoyle90815]

On a recent trip to the Grand Canyon with my mom, we happened to drive through Colorado City/Hilldale which is known as the home of the FLDS cult. That was especially creepy, and when we got off the highway, we were expecting their cops to follow us around, but that didn't happen.

[jerkit]

I just found out that my mother-in-law's denomination is unabashedly fundie-lite. She attends a Bible Presbyterian church. I never thought much of this but on a lark I googled today. I cannot believe that my executive professional, pants-wearing, sweet mother-in-law belongs to this church. They believe in the doctrine of separation. What shocked me most, though, was that they believe that the pope is the anti-Christ. This is so shocking because my father-in-law is Catholic and they married in her church. Granted, she was pregnant with my husband at the time, so it could have been a one-time exception for this reason.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. It does explain a lot about some of my husband's theological and social belief tendencies.

[Hane]

Not a sighting but a dream: In it, my cousin (who owns a huge house and piece of property in the outskirts of an upscale suburban area and who has always had a housekeeper) had hired an FLDS woman (with the pastel prairie dress and updo) as a housekeeper, and was sheltering several others. They were all living in secret with my cousin after having fled the cult.

[NotALoserLikeYou]

Yesterday I took my kids to a birthday party at one of those indoor trampoline parks. It was directly next door to a church I used to sometimes go to, which closed/moved. In its place now? A Mars Hill Church. I looked it up and it's part of Mark Driscoll's group of churches. You know Driscoll: misogynist in hipster clothes who literally used church $200k of church money to buy enough of his books do he would make the best seller list. The church with the severe church discipline policies (google those for a shock)

wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Hill_Church

I think young, rock n roll churches are on the rise, especially in "cool" places like Orange County, CA. I wonder if new members know or care about the history. It's a HUGE building. I won't be attending :)

[neuroticcat]

I really loathe Mars Hill. I am near Seattle, so it's all over the place here. Definitely think it is totally fundie but with hipper clothing. Stay FAR AWAY!

[elsabee]

There aren't official branches of Catholicism, but some areas are definitely more conservative than others. There was a thread recently about the Lincoln, NE bishop's stance on contraception. That diocese is like night and day with Omaha, and pretty much the rest of American Catholicism, IMO. I now live on the edge of the Bible Belt and I think Catholicism here has been heavily influenced by the huge local population of Evangelicals/non-denominational and fundy Christians. I feel like I was raised in a different religion sometimes when I talk to Catholics here. Also, I think sometimes youth groups and college groups can attract the more zealous members just out of virtue of being a "extra" (non-required) religious activity/group - the people who are really into their religion will gravitate towards religious activities. (Not to say that everyone who is very invested in their religion is going to be inappropriately zealous, but that those type of people WILL fall in the "interested in my religion so much I get involved with it beyond just going to church" category, so you'd have a higher percentage of them in those groups vs. the church population as a whole.) HTH... maybe (I don't know what the priests are like in your area) you could gently suggest that if she is feeling so conflicted, she could talk to a priest outside of the group she is meeting with, maybe from a different church so he's unbiased. Or contact a nun/sister.

ETA: I also think sometimes youth groups (including college) try to be more relatable by adopting the "hipster Christian" type practices or messages... like they try to make it more appealing but it tends to fall into that type of verbiage ("on fire for the Lord", "personal relationship with Jesus" type stuff), they use worship songs (obviously just the first step on the road to Protestantism i.e. false religion!!!!), and I've even seen more of the extreme modesty/waiting for marriage type stuff lately (possibly because there are more materials for teens from an Evangelical perspective so those have been adopted in? IDK, like, the Catholic Church preaches no sex before marriage, but the theology isn't the same as "giving away pieces of your heart" and that attitude would be frowned upon by most priests IMO).

This is pretty much exactly how it is -- I've seen it in action. I don't think she's in a stage where she'll talk to anyone in the Church about it yet, and there's nothing I can do to help, but I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that she realizes she can live her own life.

[for_the_Kitties]

My grandparents (not fundies) live in a part of Indiana that is full of Amish, Mennonites and Fundies. Last year around the holidays I was visiting them and we ran into some fundies at their Baptist Missionary Church. I thought they were Mennonites (head coverings, frumpers, etc) but I recently found the Seven Sisters blog and SWEAR that it was them. Not sure what church they attend, but maybe they were visiting? (this is one of the biggest churches in the area). And the hometown of the SS is very close to the church and my grandparents.

My plan for this summer when I visit them again? See if I can drive through the seven sister's town to catch a sighting or try and find them again at my grandparents church. They aren't crazy fundies, but it still is exciting to see some real life fundies! And those frumpers - can't get enough of them. :lol:

[itsnotmeitsu]

I see Mennonites every family reunion, but I don't consider them to be fundies. No one I'm related to dresses cray-cray, the just dress simply and wear tiny caps. And cook well. I've had dealings with Amish most of my life, and they don't strike me as fundies maybe because they don't have that element of crazy I associate with fundies, they just want to worship how they want to worship.

[HereticHick]

A big differences between the Amish & Mennonites (and other Anabaptists) and the Gothard followers-- Amish and Mennonites don't proselytize and don't get involved in politics. For the ATI crowd, every waking moment is considered an opportunity to "minister"(aka try to convert) to others AND to force your desire for a biblical patriarchial theocracy on everyone else.

I'll take Amish and Mennonites over Gothardites every day.

[yetanothermeg]

I was just talking with a neighbor whom I really like but she kind of threw me for a loop. She told me they put their home in a trust and "used a Christian lawyer so there is even a Rapture clause," which apparently spells out who would get the house depending on who is left behind!

[Rebelwife]

I was just talking with a neighbor whom I really like but she kind of threw me for a loop. She told me they put their home in a trust and "used a Christian lawyer so there is even a Rapture clause," which apparently spells out who would get the house depending on who is left behind!

:lol: That is hysterical. (Plus, aren't you pretty much making a list of who you think isn't getting into heaven?)