Transgender 6 year old banned from bathroom

[Artemis]

I don't understand why it is so impossible to accept what the child knows. If she knows she's in the wrong body, then she knows that. Why can't she be respected for it?

For those of us who are cisgender, (e.g. female genitalia, female-identifying) our identification of ourselves as cisgender is never questioned. That's our privilege, and it's so deeply entrenched as a privilege, we don't even see it as one. It shouldn't be a privilege: self-identification should be a right, whatever your gender.

No-one questions whether we are correctly identifying as cis. No-one asks us to wait until puberty to confirm our gender. No-one says, when we automatically align ourselves to cisgender parameters, 'Oh, are you sure you're cisgender? Are you sure you're old enough to make that choice? Are you sure you're not transgender? Hadn't you better wait until puberty to see if this is just a phase, and you're really transgender?'

But people ask that of transgender individuals all the time, especially when they're young, and it's wrong.

Cisnormativity, for want of a better word, is as wrong as heteronormativity. The fact that more people experience themselves as cisgender does not invalidate the fact that some people experience themselves as transgender nor does it give cisgender people the right to question or invalidate their transgender peers' experience of their own gender.

Thankfully, fewer and fewer people question people's sexual orientation, or imply that it is somehow a 'choice'. We mostly accept homosexual people of any gender explaining that they have always known about their sexual orientation. The same should be true for transgender people, because, just as a cisgender identification or a heterosexual orientation, or a homosexual orientation is not questioned, neither should a transgender identification be.

[Conuly]

No-one questions whether we are correctly identifying as cis. No-one asks us to wait until puberty to confirm our gender. No-one says, when we automatically align ourselves to cisgender parameters, 'Oh, are you sure you're cisgender? Are you sure you're old enough to make that choice? Are you sure you're not transgender? Hadn't you better wait until puberty to see if this is just a phase, and you're really transgender?'

And what gets me is that the same people who are so sure that a child "can't know" their gender at a young age (even as old as ten or twelve for the most extreme!) will, almost in the same breath, declare that the only reason for a preschool child to suddenly insist on wearing gender normative clothing and playing exclusively with "girl" or "boy" toys is because that's just how girls and boys ARE. (Funny thing, it always starts in preschool. Whenever the kid starts preschool, that's when the extreme gender conformity starts. This act of following strict rules regarding gender is obviously social to me, but what do I know?) But they cannot see the contradiction inherent in their two statements. (Conversely, the statement that many gender norms are learned does not really contradict with the statement that most children are developing their gender identity at three and four years old. Little girls want to act like other little girls and grown women. Their ideas of how to do this are influenced by the girls and women around them. The two statements logically align, which is not the case for these other people. Even if one of their statements were correct, they couldn't both be.)

And really, what if it IS a phase? Children do go through those, yes, and they pass all the more quickly if you don't make a fuss over it. If your penis having child goes through a year insisting on being referred to as Princess Jessica and wearing frilly pink dresses whenever possible, and then next year and ever after reverts to being called Joey*, what harm does it do to just go along with the pink dresses and name? Temporary or otherwise, loving and accepting your child unconditionally is bound to pay dividends as they get older.

* I have no idea what the odds might be for this scenario, it's just hypothetical. I don't really care what the odds are, because I don't think it should be relevant to how you treat your kid.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I don't understand why it is so impossible to accept what the child knows. If she knows she's in the wrong body, then she knows that. Why can't she be respected for it?

For those of us who are cisgender, (e.g. female genitalia, female-identifying) our identification of ourselves as cisgender is never questioned. That's our privilege, and it's so deeply entrenched as a privilege, we don't even see it as one. It shouldn't be a privilege: self-identification should be a right, whatever your gender.

No-one questions whether we are correctly identifying as cis. No-one asks us to wait until puberty to confirm our gender. No-one says, when we automatically align ourselves to cisgender parameters, 'Oh, are you sure you're cisgender? Are you sure you're old enough to make that choice? Are you sure you're not transgender? Hadn't you better wait until puberty to see if this is just a phase, and you're really transgender?'

But people ask that of transgender individuals all the time, especially when they're young, and it's wrong.

Cisnormativity, for want of a better word, is as wrong as heteronormativity. The fact that more people experience themselves as cisgender does not invalidate the fact that some people experience themselves as transgender nor does it give cisgender people the right to question or invalidate their transgender peers' experience of their own gender.

Thankfully, fewer and fewer people question people's sexual orientation, or imply that it is somehow a 'choice'. We mostly accept homosexual people of any gender explaining that they have always known about their sexual orientation. The same should be true for transgender people, because, just as a cisgender identification or a heterosexual orientation, or a homosexual orientation is not questioned, neither should a transgender identification be.

I agree that children should not be shoe-horned into gender roles which make them uncomfortable.

What I am questioning is the idea of labelling a young child as trans-gender in a definitive way. It seems like a more rigid, black and white characterization than merely accepting that gender identity can be a very fluid concept in some children.

This family has been in touch with professionals, and we obviously don't know the entire background. From the very limit information given, though, I'm really not sure how it's possible for a blanket preference as a baby to be seen as an indication of gender identity. (And if it is, someone forgot to tell my very boyish son who is still super-attached to his pink teddy-bear blankie.)

Are there any good studies on what percentage of young children who express identification with the other gender go on to identify as trans-gender adults? Puberty is a period of such profound hormonal and physical changes that I can see it having an impact.

If I had a child that was trans-gender, I would want to make sure that the identification was correct. I would be accepting of my child however they identified, but I would be concerned that being trans carries with it some really major medical decisions that cis-gender children usually don't face.

[Gil]

a thread in which the 4th survivor struggles with the concept that children have thoughts and feelings

[JesusFightClub]

Hmmm, Artemis, but Coy's not saying she's "transgender" is she? That's a big heavy label to put on a small child - and I don't like that society has made it that way, but it has, and it is.

My opinion is, Coy reckons she's a girl in a boy's body and she wants to dress as girls do and be accepted as a girl. In all of these things she should get to take the lead where it won't put her in actual physical danger (just as with any six year old). But the concepts of "cis" and "trans" are not ones she has. 2xx put it much better than I can, but I would be inclined to go with the flow with a child like Coy and not say to them "You're transgender, sweetheart" any more than you should tell a cis boy over and over again "You're a little boy, sweetheart" or a cis girl "Remember you're a little girl, darling."

It can work in reverse too after all...the cis girl (to all intents and purposes) can realise later in her life that the missing part of her was the fact she's really a boy. While some people know always, not all people do.

I also find the "She liked pink and didn't like toy cars" stuff to be really off. That's not how you know, especially at five months old.

[sableduck]

Sorry but I think a 6 year old is too young to make a decision like that because at that age they really don't know what they want. Sure they can say "I want to be this, I want to be that" but lots of children that age say outrageous things like they want to be an astronaut or a cowboy or a princess. That doesn't mean you let your kid go to school in a spacesuit or a princess outfit now does it? This kid is a boy and I think he should have to use the guy's bathroom. The reason we don't have boys using the girl's bathroom is not because of superficial stuff like boys having shorter hair or whatever. It's because they have male parts and most girls don't feel comfortable using the same bathroom as boys. Why should this kids rights come before theirs?

Well, actually, even though I will be homeschooling, if my kid wants to go to school or the grocery store or anywhere else in a princess costume or a spacesuit, I would probably let him. As long as he is properly clothed for the elements, I don't care what kind of costume or clothing he chooses. Even at 2 1/2.

[skeptifem]

Most of the time gender identity is developed very young and fixed for life. I have heard of genderqueers who never really felt strongly one way or the other, but I have never heard of someone with a strong gender identity changing it post puberty.

[Feberin]

I think what bugs me in this case is the parents labeling her so young. I think don't think children identify with any gender at 18 months and that 5 month blanket thing better be a random recollection not something they viewed as important at the time. My son is three and he only started a few months ago to really start saying he was a boy and such. Perhaps he was late coming to that realization but 18 months is still a baby to me. I just don't feel like they understand gender at that age well enough for you to start thinking your child is transgendered.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Most of the time gender identity is developed very young and fixed for life. I have heard of genderqueers who never really felt strongly one way or the other, but I have never heard of someone with a strong gender identity changing it post puberty.

Do we have any really rigorous scientific studies?

Yes, transgendered people will often say that they always felt that way - but how many cisgender adults ALSO had periods where they felt like the opposite gender?

Ideally, I suppose you would do a prospective study, following a group of children from infancy onward, observing behavior and play, talking to the kids as they get older, and see how they identify as adults. Only then, I think, without knowing the outcome in advance, could you really identify what behaviors were predictive of adult transgender identification and which are not.

Otherwise, I think that it is easy to tweak memories to serve current reality, or to have one group that is more likely to probe memories in a certain way than another group is. I mean, as someone who is a cisgender adult, I'm not usually asked "when did you know that you were a girl?" It's only when prompted to do so that I really think about it and realize that I can't honestly say that I did prior to age 14, and that I have trouble understanding what that even means. If someone asked me to point out instances of my young kids possibly showing trans behavior - well, I suppose I could mention my son stuffing his pink teddy bear blankie up his shirt and insisting that he was pregnant, or my middle girl being the most fearless of my kids and willing to stand up to boys (and win!) before she was two. Instead, I just figure it's part of the range of experience.

[AddieBelle]

Agreed.

Many, many, MANY trans people have stated that they knew what gender they were (and that their bodies didn't match up to that gender) around the time Coy's parents say she started self-identifying as a girl. I see no reason not to trust them on that.

As a lesbian, there were certainly signs of my non-heteronormative sexuality at around 5 or 6 years old so it doesn't surprise me that trans children recognize their true gender at that age or even earlier.

Not only does the thread make me sad but some of the posters comments make me sad. What does it hurt if she uses the girls bathroom? She is a fucking child people need to stop worrying about what's under her skirt.

[Blahblah]

Well, actually, even though I will be homeschooling, if my kid wants to go to school or the grocery store or anywhere else in a princess costume or a spacesuit, I would probably let him. As long as he is properly clothed for the elements, I don't care what kind of costume or clothing he chooses. Even at 2 1/2.

One of my daughters favourite outfits when she was two was a very frilly pink and purple fairy dress accessorised with a Bob the Builder hard hat and a pair of lovely green John Deere rubber boots. She wore it to the shops and to playgroup and no one dropped dead with horror from looking at her. In fact mostly she brought huge smiles to people's faces.

[Minerva]

Considering the 4th survivor's posts in the Neo-Nazi thread, I think you're wasting your time.

I was definitely getting that vibe after the 4th survivor's first couple posts in this thread. Is SWL still on the loose?

[Maggie Mae]

I think this leads to the question of if gender is a social construct, then do trans people really exist? Gender is more than just "girls like pink and boys like blue, I have a vagina and like blue, so I am trans" right? (I know I'm oversimplifying) Do children have a sexual preference before puberty? Can we really say that a 6 year old is trans? I don't know the answer. I personally don't understand why we divide small children into groups before they are born according to what is between their legs. I realize this isn't a popular opinion, but why does it fucking matter? My co-worker was horrified when some one refused to tell her the sex of someone else's baby for the shower because "she didn't know what to buy." Jesus, I'm so sick of the frilly pink shit for girls and the crappy girl toys that aren't anywhere near as cool as the "boy" toys, and the gender specific decorating and the overall bullshit of dividing kids into groups.

As I said earlier, unisex bathrooms are the way to go. In response to the woman who said she didn't like going in a unisex washroom in the dorms, I think dorms should move to what I had - same sex bedrooms (one had four, one had two) attached to a common living area and washroom. I hate the idea of a giant washroom shared with an entire floor as well.

TL;DR: I am irritated at gender roles. Also some questions about trans kids, but more about how gender is really assigned and what it means.

[veron1que]

The only problem with this is that when registering Coy, the school would have required her birth certificate and her immunization records since it's public. Both of those would have marked M for sex. That information goes into the school's computer system and is given to teachers for their initial rosters. If she's still legally male, the school would have known before she ever attended.

As to the 4th survivor's asshole comments, I assume you never call a woman you grew up with by her married name? After all, she could get divorced, and then maybe marry again, or decide she prefers her maiden name, and that HUGE change is too tough for you...

You are in fact correct, our legal documentation forces everyone to register as M or F. My point was that if such documentation didn't exist, by just looking at a kid you can't determine what sex they are with certainty, and so I don't understand why body parts dictate which restroom a person uses. I am of the opinion that legal sex classifications serve only to marginalize women, transgender men, gays, and other non binary gender classified individuals.

[ILoveJellybeans]

I think this leads to the question of if gender is a social construct, then do trans people really exist? Gender is more than just "girls like pink and boys like blue, I have a vagina and like blue, so I am trans" right? (I know I'm oversimplifying) Do children have a sexual preference before puberty? Can we really say that a 6 year old is trans? I don't know the answer. I personally don't understand why we divide small children into groups before they are born according to what is between their legs. I realize this isn't a popular opinion, but why does it fucking matter? My co-worker was horrified when some one refused to tell her the sex of someone else's baby for the shower because "she didn't know what to buy." Jesus, I'm so sick of the frilly pink shit for girls and the crappy girl toys that aren't anywhere near as cool as the "boy" toys, and the gender specific decorating and the overall bullshit of dividing kids into groups.

As I said earlier, unisex bathrooms are the way to go. In response to the woman who said she didn't like going in a unisex washroom in the dorms, I think dorms should move to what I had - same sex bedrooms (one had four, one had two) attached to a common living area and washroom. I hate the idea of a giant washroom shared with an entire floor as well.

TL;DR: I am irritated at gender roles. Also some questions about trans kids, but more about how gender is really assigned and what it means.

Yes, being transgender goes beyond preferring cars to dolls (or the other way round) and wanting to wear dresses. There are little boys who like playing with dolls and the colour pink, but know they are a boy and dont want a vagina. Transgender kids know that their body doesnt match their gender, and they really want to change their bodies and often feel depressed because they feel theres something wrong with their body.

And yes, kids can have a sexual preference before puberty-loads of kids have crushes on others before then. I had a crush on a girl called Amy when I was about 7.

[Maggie Mae]

Yes, being transgender goes beyond preferring cars to dolls (or the other way round) and wanting to wear dresses. There are little boys who like playing with dolls and the colour pink, but know they are a boy and dont want a vagina. Transgender kids know that their body doesnt match their gender, and they really want to change their bodies and often feel depressed because they feel theres something wrong with their body.

And yes, kids can have a sexual preference before puberty-loads of kids have crushes on others before then. I had a crush on a girl called Amy when I was about 7.

But what is gender, really? I've always heard it's a "social construct" as in, playing the roles that are defined for us from birth (or pre-birth) according to what society tells us that those of us with vaginas like. So if we somehow manage to change society so that there are no real "roles" to play (girls like pink, take care of the home, are nurturing; boys like trucks and getting dirty, are aggressive) how much of that is innate vs personality vs society?

I just know that people should be treated with respect, that what is between their legs does not define them as a person, and that if someone wants to change sex to match their gender, they can. I just don't care what other people do, nor do I judge them for it.

[formergothardite]

The 4th Survivor put me in mind of SWL too.

[RachelB]

One of my daughters favourite outfits when she was two was a very frilly pink and purple fairy dress accessorised with a Bob the Builder hard hat and a pair of lovely green John Deere rubber boots. She wore it to the shops and to playgroup and no one dropped dead with horror from looking at her. In fact mostly she brought huge smiles to people's faces.

I have been told that when I was a 3-year-old flower girl for my aunt and uncle's wedding, I had to be cajoled to take my football helmet off for the service, and that during the service, instead of distributing petals in a leisurely fashion, I tucked the basket under my arm and ran up to the front of the room as fast as I could. I have been, variously, somewhere between baby butch and sloppy femme in adulthood, but I haven't worn a football helmet (or been especially interested in football).

My brother is the reason the high school we attended has a "gender-appropriate clothing" stipulation in its dress code-- he wore a early 1990s patchwork frumper and Docs to school one day, and our father, who was on the committee working on the student handbook at the time, threw a shit fit. My brother is largely a T-shirt and jeans guy these days.

BUT... if you had asked me or my brother as 3-year-olds, we would have told you that our gender identities matched the respective sexes we were assigned at birth. That doesn't seem to be the case for Coy.

My oldest nibling is a thoughtful child, a very familiar mix of active and contemplative, silly and earnest. W isn't as stereotypically "boyish" as my middle nibling, and I am infuriated by the occasional gender-policing W's grandfathers exert on him. Part of the reason I think it's so important to listen to children's perceptions of who they are is because W is so dear to me. If the doctor who decided that W is a boy got it wrong, I want W's transition to life as a girl/woman/person of nonbinary gender to be as easy, safe, and non-noteworthy as possible. And if W does eventually decide, "Yeah, I'm a boy, but I'm a different kind of boy from my younger sibling," I want the category of "boy" to be big enough to include W, without bullshit from granddads or playground bullies or whoever the hell else.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Reading all around this story for the past few days, it strikes me that the mother finds it significant that the Coy went after a pink blanket at FIVE MONTHS OF AGE. The mother says that's evidence of preferring "girly" things. At five months. Then there's talk of Coy expressing desires to be a girl at 18 months - not liking a car toy. Yet pictures in an interview at age three show Coy as a boy, no comment about gender otherwise made and using male pronouns throughout. Most of Mom's own postings have been scrubbed, apparently, but I didn't go digging too hard.

I don't think that saying "I want to get rid of my penis" is somehow proof of innate thoughts that aren't influenced at all by the outside world, either. On another board I frequent there was discussion of a 3 year old Mormon boy (using birth sex, here) who was saying the same thing (actually asking when GOD would take away his penis), and yet it came out (willingly) that both parents were into traditional gender roles and feeling some angst about the whole thing.

If a kid has learned, very young, at a toddler or small kid age, either overtly OR not, just picking it up from the family or from the school environment, that "girls do this, boys do that, and girls don't play with boys, girls and boys line up separately at school" while at the same time just getting to realize that "boys have a penis" then it's really not a huge leap to the magical idea that getting rid of the penis is going to solve his problem, which is that he wants to play with the girls and do what they're doing but people are implying (quite possibly without meaning to and subtly) that he can't. I don't find the idea of saying "I want my body different" to be that extraordinarily out there, really. It's logical, to a kid, particularly when all the girls have similarly internalized the same messages that "you don't play with boys, they're different and they line up over there" and so are rejecting. Little kids have been known to wish for "God" to "fix" various racial traits, same deal. Or try scrubbing the color off of their skin.

Also Coy has a severely disabled triplet sister, I don't think it's all that out there that several commenters on various Denver-based sites who seemed to know her story from before were wondering how that might affect things just generally.

I do have to wonder how Coy's parents managed to get a "F" on the passport, though. Usually that goes by what's on your birth certificate, and the state actually let them change the legal birth certificate at six with only a "social transition"? Plenty of kids have gender dysphoria and DO "grow out of it," so I'm just surprised they went so official so fast (rather than just living under an alias at school, which it seems the school IS willing to allow except for this latest bathroom thing). Of course, Coy's own family has now put this all over the national news, so stealth is not gonna happen for a while.

Either way though I still think unisex bathrooms with all stalls (so, urinals in stalls too) would solve a lot of these issues.

[yewchapel]

Forgive my ignorance as you know, a be-vagina'd person, but why can men not just sit down to pee? Is it just quicker to use a urinal? Iirc it is the norm for men to sit down to pee in Germany and other countries. Certainly in the UK I've encountered gender-neutral bathrooms with no urinals and nobody seemed to mind.

[FloraDoraDolly]

An idea re: the school bathroom issue... What if ALL the children in Coy's class were allowed to use the staff bathroom?

[Micah]

Hiya, I've only posted here a couple of times, but I lurk regularly and this is a fascinating, slightly saddening topic.

From the age of about six to around eleven or so I wanted to be a boy. I asked to be called Jo instead of Joanna (I still go by Jo). I refused, sometimes kicking and screaming to wear dresses, skirts or anything pink and frilly. As I got older the thought of going through puberty absolutely disgusted me. The idea of growing boobs and getting my period was utterly foreign and terrifying.

I grew up isolated and home schooled, so I had no idea that trans gender people existed. I thought if you had girl bits you were a girl and vice versa. Fortunately my parents had outgrown their fundy stage by that point and they just let me be who I wanted to be. I never specifically asked to be called a boy, so I don't know if they would have done it or not, but I did know they loved me no matter what. If I'd known about trans gender people would I still be a boy? I can't really answer that.

These days I completely identify as female. I love being a woman, I have a son and I can even be coaxed into a dress occasionally. I do still do things that aren't considered 'normal' for a female in my culture. I have very short hair, I'll go out the bush and swing a block buster all day to get wood, I love fishing and hunting and will do all the hard work involved like cleaning and skinning and I'm physically stronger than several men I know.

My hope is that one day, in the distant future, the rigid ideals of 'male' and female' won't exist. Who cares if you have an inny bit or and outy bit, do, dress, call yourself whatever makes you happy. Kids are kids. At six my son is interested by the idea that he has a penis and I don't, but it's purely curiosity about the world. He doesn't think that his best friend (who is a girl) is better to him or inferior because of her genitalia. His only comment on her gender was that "when her Mum makes her wear a dress she can't climb trees because she gets stuck in the branches."

TL;DR Sometimes kids are wiser than adults. They don't care what genitals their friends have as long as they can climb a tree without getting stuck. Ideas about gender, race, disability, etc are imposed on children by adults. If Coy wants to be called a girl and use the girls bathroom, then who and what is it going to hurt? If she changes her mind in a few years (which she's going to find very hard to do, due to the fuss that's being made about the situation) then she should be allowed to. If she's still identifying as a girl when she's old enough to have surgery, she should be allowed to. In my mind it really is that simple.

As a side note, absolutely no offence meant to anyone....If society's rigid ideals about 'male' and 'female' didn't exist. If everyone was allowed to dress and do whatever they were physically capable of doing, would there be any need for the term transgender? I know if I had been forced into being what people typically see as 'female' I'd probably still be identifying as male.

[RachelB]

Hiya, I've only posted here a couple of times, but I lurk regularly and this is a fascinating, slightly saddening topic.

From the age of about six to around eleven or so I wanted to be a boy. I asked to be called Jo instead of Joanna (I still go by Jo). I refused, sometimes kicking and screaming to wear dresses, skirts or anything pink and frilly. As I got older the thought of going through puberty absolutely disgusted me. The idea of growing boobs and getting my period was utterly foreign and terrifying.

I grew up isolated and home schooled, so I had no idea that trans gender people existed. I thought if you had girl bits you were a girl and vice versa. Fortunately my parents had outgrown their fundy stage by that point and they just let me be who I wanted to be. I never specifically asked to be called a boy, so I don't know if they would have done it or not, but I did know they loved me no matter what. If I'd known about trans gender people would I still be a boy? I can't really answer that.

These days I completely identify as female. I love being a woman, I have a son and I can even be coaxed into a dress occasionally. I do still do things that aren't considered 'normal' for a female in my culture. I have very short hair, I'll go out the bush and swing a block buster all day to get wood, I love fishing and hunting and will do all the hard work involved like cleaning and skinning and I'm physically stronger than several men I know.

My hope is that one day, in the distant future, the rigid ideals of 'male' and female' won't exist. Who cares if you have an inny bit or and outy bit, do, dress, call yourself whatever makes you happy. Kids are kids. At six my son is interested by the idea that he has a penis and I don't, but it's purely curiosity about the world. He doesn't think that his best friend (who is a girl) is better to him or inferior because of her genitalia. His only comment on her gender was that "when her Mum makes her wear a dress she can't climb trees because she gets stuck in the branches."

TL;DR Sometimes kids are wiser than adults. They don't care what genitals their friends have as long as they can climb a tree without getting stuck. Ideas about gender, race, disability, etc are imposed on children by adults. If Coy wants to be called a girl and use the girls bathroom, then who and what is it going to hurt? If she changes her mind in a few years (which she's going to find very hard to do, due to the fuss that's being made about the situation) then she should be allowed to. If she's still identifying as a girl when she's old enough to have surgery, she should be allowed to. In my mind it really is that simple.

As a side note, absolutely no offence meant to anyone....If society's rigid ideals about 'male' and 'female' didn't exist. If everyone was allowed to dress and do whatever they were physically capable of doing, would there be any need for the term transgender? I know if I had been forced into being what people typically see as 'female' I'd probably still be identifying as male.

Yes. A person can experience gender dysphoria even if zie perceives gender as culturally defined. Being critical of your society's cultural norms doesn't necessarily mean that you'll look at your body and have it match your perception of yourself.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Forgive my ignorance as you know, a be-vagina'd person, but why can men not just sit down to pee? Is it just quicker to use a urinal? Iirc it is the norm for men to sit down to pee in Germany and other countries. Certainly in the UK I've encountered gender-neutral bathrooms with no urinals and nobody seemed to mind.

Plenty of men sit down to pee at home. My husband sits to pee (at home, pees against trees just fine outside).

It's quicker to not bother dropping pants, and if people get casual about bathroom hygiene then a urinal which is obviously NOT made for sitting is... better for later users, I guess. (But hey, you're talking to someone who grew up with squat toilets and prefers THEM for similar reasons!! :))

FWIW plenty of portable toilets (the sort you see at street fairs and concerts) in the US are effectively unisex, only one person can enter, but they have a little urinal on the wall next to the main toilet seat (both routed to the same non-flushing tank underneath of course). Speaking of the seat though, of course there are the "hoverers" who really OUGHT to be using a squat toilet considering how much they pee all over the seat (some of these people frequent the women's bathroom at my office too, which is just... yuck)

On the other hand, I worked in a building where there used to be no women's bathrooms at all and so they just converted the men's bathroom on every other floor. The one on the main floor, for whatever reason they left the urinals in it, but had converted them to PLANTERS. I have no idea why anyone thought to do that... maybe to make it really obvious it's not unisex so they don't spook anyone? very wtf.

[DarkAnts]

I know a family with a boy who wears dresses and skirts. He is 6 so his parents are not assigning him a gender just based on what he likes to wear. They will let him wear what he wants and play with what ever toy he wants. They want their son to decided these things once he is older and has a better understanding of whats going on.