David and Priscilla updates

[Sola]

Seems to me that David learned little in this incident. He insists it was gleaning when in a reality it was theft. It doesn't matter what the bible says because the law of the land states it is theft. Even if biblical law applied, David is not poor. Gleaning was meant for those who had no other way to eat. That's not David. The lesson should be that it doesn't matter if you say you're a born again christian (in fact had I been the farmer I would have said so fucking what), theft is theft.

[skinch]

Hi David, how about a visit, we're your biggest fans and we've got a lot of questions for you.

David will be prayerfully considering his reaction. Hoping that God will lay it on his heart to answer them nothing, but resolved that, when the Lord gives him a peace, he will strive forward in the knowledge that God is so good.

I wish I could believe that they're too sheltered and socially inept to be targets for snark, but the way they carry on just scares me. I said this on page one or two of this thread - their lifestyle appalls me, but it's their distortion of the Bible to justify their nonsense that is particularly disturbing to me.

Sola's right, David will learn little. He'll scurry to his bible concordance and emerge with a clutch of verses to explain how his behaviour can be shown to have, in fact, been Godly all along

[Guest Anonymous]

Seems to me that David learned little in this incident. He insists it was gleaning when in a reality it was theft. It doesn't matter what the bible says because the law of the land states it is theft. Even if biblical law applied, David is not poor. Gleaning was meant for those who had no other way to eat. That's not David. The lesson should be that it doesn't matter if you say you're a born again christian (in fact had I been the farmer I would have said so fucking what), theft is theft.

But... but... it was GOD's fault! :whistle:

As we drove down the road, I asked God, “Father, why did you allow that to happen?â€

[WonderingInWA]

If he had any kind of journalistic sense, he wouldn't have mentioned the race of the officer. What a moron. And I think it's hilarious that they probably had the shit scared right out of them. I'd love to know how it all went down with their "friends" who told them it was okay to trespass the field.

[Funky Chicken]

anyone have a screenshot of the comments? There says there are six but that has disappeared as well. I really wanna know what the peanutpecan gallery had to say about it. We have snarked tons on their blog before. Surely this time wouldn't be the time to cave unless there was inside pressure.

There, I fixed it for you.

[Funky Chicken]

David has no clue about gleaning. Legitimate gleaners ask the field owners for permission. I gleaned as an individual down in CA for many years, mostly asparagus. Some farms permitted it, and set boundaries for gleaning. Others said no.

Currently in my community we have a gleaners org. They get permission to glean from the farmers, and then they distribute to folks who need the food. As a volunteer gleaner I also get to bring home some goodies. If David could offer the grower $100 for those pecans, he didn't need to be gleaning.

My inner skeptic was wondering if the offer of $100 was a thinly disguised bribe, to make the whole nasty situation go away. Especially if, say, he was scared shitless of getting some kind of criminal (as opposed to religious!) conviction...

[Bbfamteam]

My inner skeptic was wondering if the offer of $100 was a thinly disguised bribe, to make the whole nasty situation go away. Especially if, say, he was scared shitless of getting some kind of criminal (as opposed to religious!) conviction...

Oh you can bet it was a bribe. He wasn't willing to part with fifty bucks for a hotel room. The only reason the hundred bucks was offered was to try to appease the farmer and get themselves out of trouble. I have a hard time believing either of them are literate enough to read here. (Ok exaggerating but still). I suspect someone (family or Gothard related) mentioned that teaching character while posting about stealing and trespassing wasn't a good way to further their brand.

[JesusFightClub]

Well, there is a lot of crossover here.

A good Communist is the equivalent of "the servant of all" regardless of gender.

Ask Felix Dzerzhinsky or Liu Shaochi.

I do not think fundies would like the comparison.

[nokidsmom]

Here's a HINT, dum-dum, rather than telling this story as if it's cute and a great testimony, there's another DANDY thing that far down south. It's called a roadside stand. All the way down to Florida, you can find signs for them year round. You can BUY your pecans directly from the farmers, at their roadside stand and not by trying to steal them from the fields!

Yup, and many of the signs advertising these stands are in neon-bright colors so you can't miss them either.

[nokidsmom]

Oh you can bet it was a bribe. He wasn't willing to part with fifty bucks for a hotel room. The only reason the hundred bucks was offered was to try to appease the farmer and get themselves out of trouble. I have a hard time believing either of them are literate enough to read here. (Ok exaggerating but still). I suspect someone (family or Gothard related) mentioned that teaching character while posting about stealing and trespassing wasn't a good way to further their brand.

Hmmm....that's an interesting point.

[rosamundi]

Maybe it is their first experience of...Shh apple-pinching? That thing you do as a kid (ok I did it as a kid) You know when your parents allow you to have a life and you get up to mischief. The thing you do that teaches you it is stealing. But when your friends are daring you, it seems like fun.

See now I learned that at about 12.

Do you mean "scrumping"? It was apples where I grew up (not so many pecan trees on the south coast of England). You'd maybe take one as you were walking home from school if the tree overhung the pavement, and quite often the owners would leave out a box with a sign saying "help yourself," but going onto someone's property with a shopping bag? No way.

This is a very odd story. I will eat my fundie-approved skirts if it happened as reported. Very few angry people speak in whole sentences like that.

[WonderingInWA]

As a side note, David looks like Beaker from the Muppets.

Okay, back to your regularly scheduled snark about the pecan thieving...

[Sprocket]

Dear Josh,

As much as I hate to give you ideas, please give David and Priscilla the gift of a bag of pecans with a note attached that reads, 'heard you liked pecans. Here is a legally obtained bag that has been paid in full.' And then take a picture if his face and post it to Instagram. Pretty please? It would make my year (as far as Internet glee goes.)

[Buzzard]

Reread the pecan story from the perspective of the police officers and farmer. While David and Priscilla don't look like anybody's idea of dangerous criminals, it's probably hard to tell on first glance that they are as sheltered and naive as they are. Trespassing (along with gleaning/stealing nuts from a harvested field) is hardly a serious crime in the eyes of the law. The police officers and farmer thought they'd scare the kids a bit, but had no idea they'd terrify Priscilla and David so thoroughly. The racism could have been intended as a joke (albeit not a funny one) and so could the crack about the Bible in the car.

When David and Priscilla freaked out about the possibility of gunshots (and Priscilla, obviously pregnant, started getting hysterical) they probably called in the nice officer to calm things down. He handled the situation according to professional procedure, and was being slightly patronizing when he brought David over to the farmer and let him make his "good Christian" speech. Then the farmer takes a picture so that he can prove to his friends and family that yes, a clean-cut Christian couple stole pecans from his farm in a Bible competition bag, and yes, they totally freaked out and thought they were going to get shot because of this. Who would believe him without photo proof?

It's important to keep in mind how thoroughly and completely David cracked in the face of people he viewed as authority figures (the police officers and the farmer) and gave a prostrate apology speech to the friendly police officer instead of explaining the situation and asking questions about what was going on. Most adults with the ability to think for themselves would explain that there had been a misunderstanding, that neighbors had said it was okay to walk on the property, and that they didn't realize "gleaning" was stealing. Offering to pay the farmer or the nuts was the right thing to do, but David offered the gesture as a Christian who should have known better, not as someone who wanted to correct a thoughtless mistake. These people have been taught a kind of Christianity that teaches them to roll over and die before standing up for themselves, even when they've encountered an extremely disturbing situation. How hard would it have been for David to say, "This is a really unfortunate misunderstanding - and it was a misunderstanding, not an intentional crime. We've been cooperative in every way, and want nothing more than to resolve the situation. Was it really necessary for them to threaten to shoot us? My wife is pregnant, and you can see that she's incredibly upset over this." Also there was NO REASON for them to agree to pose for a picture without asking why the farmer wanted to take it. david and Priscilla screwed up, but they aren't compelled to do whatever the person they wronged asks.

David and Priscilla reacted like abused children ... which is what they are, essentially. They don't stand up for themselves in situations where their side of things could be reasonably explained as stupidity, not malice, they don't question the behavior of authority figures, even when something strikes them as wrong, and they can't understand basic human dynamics or comprehend a proportionate response to a heated situation. (For instance, it was one thing for the farmer and police officers to be mad at David and Priscilla, and quite another to make them think gunshots were going to be fired after they were cooperating.) David also couldn't admit that this was a learning situation for him (he now knows that gleaning is wrong) and instead claims he just didn't listen hard enough to Jesus. A glimpse into headship psychology.

I've been in law enforcement for more than a decade. There is NO FUCKING WAY IN HELL this actually happened. The dialog is absolutely ridiculous, the cattle prod wouldnt and couldnt have happened, and there's no way a cop/deputy/trooper whatever would behave like that.

But lets start at the beginning.

1 - he has a state trooper responding to the first call. Troopers are HIGHWAY PATROL. The do not respond to 911 calls and they most definitely do not respond to people stealing nuts. They pull your ass over for doing 100 in a 55.

Motioning toward the red house in the distance I explained, “We are traveling through the area and just had lunch with that family over there.†The trooper asked, “Do they own the property?†I replied, “No, but they said they know the owner and he lets them walk in this grove.†The trooper replied, “Well, I just talked to the owner and he told me he does not want anyone out here. You wait right here. He wants to have a word with you.†Oh, boy, was I in for a surprise.

Bullshit. No way in hell would any sworn officer who had just spoken to an angry anyone allow the situation to escalate. He would have either given the citation or told them to get the fuck out.

2 - The second "officer" on scene is a plain clothes officer. Lets assume, for the sake of argument, that the trooper happened to be completely out of his jurisdiction and was driving aimlessly on a rural dirt road when he happened across the wallermobile parked on the side of the road. Lets also assume that the trooper went to the closest house (which wasnt the one they had lunch at) and asked about the car, the owner got pissed etc and called the real police (which could be police or a deputy depending on where in florida they are), the first officer on scene would not be out of uniform, and certainly would not be in his personal vehicle.

A pickup pulled in a short while later and out jumped a plain-clothed officer. He walked over to talk with the other officer while we waited another fifteen minutes. Finally the owner of the property pulled up. As he got out of his pickup he grabbed a slender fiberglass cattle-prod. As he walked briskly towards us he slashed at the grass back and forth as he walked. He was ANGRY!

Again, Bullshit. Parties would have been separated and NO WAY was anyone with a weapon or anything that could be perceived as a weapon going to be in anyone's hands at any point in time if real officers are involved, plain clothes or not.

3 - FINALLY we have an actual uniformed officer arrive on scene. He would have gotten out of his car, seen two blathering pitiful examples of ministers, taken their license and registration, and written a criminal trespass warning (likely the white paperwork), along with the formal citation.

Obviously this was not the first time people had wronged him. Of course we felt horrible and wanted to do anything needed to make this right. After the landowner had carried on for a time, he turned back and called out to the officers, “You got your deputy on his way out here yet? You better, because they are going to hear gunshots over their heads in a minute.†After a stern warning from the officers, a few more police came on the scene. Each one seemed to do their best to give us a talking. Finally, the deputy for the area arrived.

Clearly this area is a Sheriff jurisdiction, which further proves that there is no way in hell a trooper responded to a call. If someone yells a threat to the two other officers on scene they dont stand around with their thumbs up their asses and let someone with a cattle prod in their hand threaten people. They either diffuse the situation (by putting someone in the back of a patrol car), tell one or all parties to leave, or conclude. If the trooper and the other "officer" had no jurisdiction to arrest (which is likely true) they still had the authority to issue a criminal trespass warning. Even if they didnt want to do that they would have escorted the owner back to his house while the other ensured that the pecan thieves didnt flee.

4 -

After a stern warning from the officers, a few more police came on the scene.

What is this, a fucking bank robbery? He already has 3 hypothetical cops on scene, now they called for backup? I have no idea whatever bumblefuck pecan grove he was at, but I highly doubt they sent more than one car because they probably only have 5 total.

One of the other tall officers ended up doing the negotiations. He had to give me “a talking to†loud enough that the land owner could hear to try and appease his wrath.

Edit a paragraph out before posting david? You havent described anyone other that "large jolly African-American officer" so I'm not sure what "tall" is about. What negotiations? This isnt hard. Get the fuck off the land, dont come back, give what you stole back. 20 minutes tops.

5 -

The officer repeated it, “Did you hear that? He violated his inner peace and did what was wrong and now is offering you a hundred bucks as restitution.†He straightened up and looked at me and then at the police officer. He said, “No, you keep your money, no I don’t want your dirty money.†After a pause he looked back up and said, “No, all I want is one good picture of you and your Mrs. holding that bag of pecans.†I said, “Yes, sir. Anything you want. I have done you wrong.†After he took a picture on his little flip phone I said, “Sir, could you take a picture of us as well? I want to teach my little boy this lesson too.†We shook hands, gave us our paper-work and we were off.

Wait, hold on? A cop gives a flying fuck about your inner peace. They're also highly unlikely to get into your religious banter. Why? Because that can be considered some form of discrimination and its completely irrelevant. I dont give a shit about your inner peace and if you start talking about it in court I will stop you.

The red - huh? Who wants to teach a little boy? David has a son? The cop wanted a picture? Most jurisdictions have an SOP (standard operating procedure) which directly prohibits taking pictures on your cell phone. It keeps people from snapping pics at crime scenes and putting it on facebook.

Now, the pictures. David took A LOT of time with these. He captioned all of them.

Did you take this before or after you got busted?

Please tell me this is a stock pic and he didnt arrange the pecans!

I call bullshit on so many levels. A plain clothes officer let you take pictures of his truck? Was this before or after you were a blubbering little baby? After slipping your $100 bill into the bag you snapped pics? NO WAY.

The significance of the cost is what?

Why is he smiling? Whats up with the caption? Who cares if you got to keep them? Which car are they in front of?

My guess is that this was pulled down because its a blatant fabrication and deviated from the truth enough that it could get him in some trouble. Lying is a sin, david.

edited because I do know how to link screencaps!

[Sarietty]

Interesting breakdown from a law enforcement perspective, Buzzard. I do tend to think that David's account of events may have a lot to do with panic and lack of understanding, rather than complete fabrication. (Which isn't to say that he wasn't deliberately lying about some things, only that he and Priscilla have no idea how the world really works and are incredibly sheltered and naive.)

I think the pictures of the pickup truck, pecans, etc., were probably stock photos used without payment and accreditation - so those were stolen, too.

[EyeQueue]

The significance of the cost is what?

Could this be a back-handed way of downplaying the financial loss to the farmer?

Does anyone know if the price he quoted is accurate? Here in Northern California, pecans are pretty pricey. I haven't checked out unshelled ones, but at our co-op, shelled organic ones are around $17.00/lb, and even at CostCo I think they are about $8.00/lb.

Edited for spelling.

[slickcat79]

Could this be a back-handed wah of downplaying the financial loss to the farmer?

Does anyone know if the price he quoted is accurate? Here in Northern California, pecans are pretty pricey. I haven't checked out unshelled ones, but at our co-op, shelled organic ones are around $17.00/lb, and even at CostCo I think they are about $8.00/lb.

Yeah...I paid something like $7 for a half pound shelled last month. Which was ridiculous IMO but I needed them at the last minute. Google tells me that the national average for unshelled pecans was over $2/lb last spring. A year and a half later, during baking "season"...I think David is underestimating considerably. Or maybe quoting a wholesale price that processors would give to farmers. Or maybe pulling it out of his ass, like everything else in that "testimony" :?

[Arete]

Dear Josh,

As much as I hate to give you ideas, please give David and Priscilla the gift of a bag of pecans with a note attached that reads, 'heard you liked pecans. Here is a legally obtained bag that has been paid in full.' And then take a picture if his face and post it to Instagram. Pretty please? It would make my year (as far as Internet glee goes.)

Sprocket, I heart you so much right now. :clap: :dance:

[StacyW]

Could someone have hacked his blog and rewritten the entire story to go with the photos, as a joke? Maybe he is just holding paperwork from the Bible Bee, and the Bible Bee people gave him a bag of pecans to thank him? That makes more sense than taking it literally.

[Witsec7]

Re the truck photo: Sagebrush and tiled Spanish roofs in TN? My how unique. 8-)

[singsingsing]

Re the truck photo: Sagebrush and tiled Spanish roofs in TN? My how unique. 8-)

He definitely gathered most of the pictures from the internet to help make his blog post. Now that I look at it, I want to say the picture of the pecan grove is from Google Street View.

[JesusFightClub]

Buzzard I heart your response! Gets right to the bones of it and I thank you.

However multiple coppers isn't weird in my experience. Took eight to cuff me and my comrade last time and we weren't resisting. They were also in stab proof vests.

[Witsec7]

He definitely gathered most of the pictures from the internet to help make his blog post. Now that I look at it, I want to say the picture of the pecan grove is from Google Street View.

That certainly isn't the red house he mentioned in the original post.

TY Buzzard, excellent analysis and spot on.

[erunerune]

As a civilian I really appreciate Buzzard's professional Pecan-gate analysis.

[ceg045]

Shocking, I know, but the pickup truck photo was definitely not taken by the Wallers. I plugged the cached version of the image into TinEye and found the following:

http://tineye.com/search/194d8811a58bb5 ... dfa111984/

Not sure if that link will work, but here's a link to the picture on Wikimedia Commons (so it wasn't actually stolen, per se, since it's evidentally in the public domain). Certainly misleading, though.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 50_XLT.jpg

Nothing came up for the pecan grove, but if it is in fact from Google Earth, those images likely aren't included in the search.