Romney's Message Is Changing/Romney Secret Tape (merged)

[Sola]

Reagan brought the highest marginal tax rate down from 70% to 50% within his first year in office. And by the end of his 2nd term it was down to 28%.

http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/displayafact.cfm?Docid=213

So yes it was higher, but look where it came from!

Yes, and then what happened?

What state was the country in? How much debt was there? What about after both Bush presidents? What debt was there? Tax cuts were given to the rich at the expense of the poor and middle earners. Debt went up.

Please, explain to me how the trickle down method will finally work this time, when it's been proven not to work time and time again.

Oh and your best bud Romney? Says he isn't going to cut taxes for the rich.

[formergothardite]

So the plan is to give the rich tax breaks and just hope that they decide to pay the poor good enough wages so that they can keep food on the table and afford insurance? And this is from the man who bought a sweat shop in China and didn't seem upset at all that the works were getting paid nothing?

And since he is claiming that he will cut duplication in the welfare system, can't he even give us an idea of what this duplication is?

Are you not even a tad bit curious as to why he is refusing to release his tax info when pretty much everyone else does? What is he trying to hide? And if he wasn't trying to hide something, why won't he release it?

Quoting this so maybe jericho will answer. Just to get it straight, Mitt has no actual plans to help the poor, he has plans to help the rich and just hope that they will help the poor? Correct?

[formergothardite]

Romney says he won't cut taxes on wealthy Americans: http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/romn ... ction.html

Can you explain, Jericho?

And this post, since Mitt seems to be saying his plan is to NOT cut taxes on the rich, which is the opposite of what you are saying.

[Mythicwings]

Quoting this so maybe jericho will answer. Just to get it straight, Mitt has no actual plans to help the poor, he has plans to help the rich and just hope that they will help the poor? Correct?

I love how Romney and the GOP like to throw around the phrase about those on public assistance, that they "feel entitled" - when the whole reason they actually claim that those programs shouldn't exist is that Romney et al feel entitled to all the money they can drain away from society with no feeling for anyone who can't you know, like eat, pay for chemotherapy, have a home, as a consequence of Romeny's sense of entitlement.

[dawn9476]

I have relatives who are planning to vote for Romney, but even while they're out there stumping for him it's mostly anti-Obama talk. Namely, they're paranoid that Obama is going to slash the defense budget and they'll all lose their jobs (they work in the shipyards). Those relatives also watch Fox News 24/7. Let's just say it was quite an entertaining few days I spent at their house...!

Thing is, some of them have significant health issues, and yet they're all just adamant that "Obamacare" is going to be the death of everything and the end of the world, even WHILE lamenting that they either have no insurance or the insurance they do have is refusing to cover this or that, or that they can't change jobs because they need to keep their health insurance from the current job, etc etc ETC. I might say well, I've been under a national plan before... but then it's all about how the US is unique in the world and those sort of socialist systems from your country won't work here, etc... (to be frank it's all about Those People, that supposedly freeloading "Other" 47%. Creepy? You betcha.)

It's good to be home. :)

The defense cuts that may come at the beginning of next year passed the GOP house. President Obama would have never been able to sign that deal into law had it not passed the GOP house.

[dawn9476]

First of all the economy is NOT recovering. (mainstream media strikes again). Every month, way more people are dropping out the workforce than those who are getting jobs. That's why the jobs report, as bad as it sounds every month, is actually way worse than it looks.

Second, Romney would not just eliminate all welfare, but his plan does plan to cut it back. There is much abuse and duplication in the welfare system (and other assistance programs) that needs to be fixed. And as the economy hopefully gets fixed, this can continue to be scaled back.

Unless you polled every one of those people who dropped out of the workforce, you don't know why they do. Some retire. Some go back to school because they have to learn a new skill to find another job. Other get married and may not have to work for a while because their spouse brings in a good income. Some may also start a new business. It's a myth that everyone who drops out of the workforce do it because they have lost hope. You need to stay off the RW blogs.

[Kira]

Conservative are very delusional about Romney chances. I don't think Obama has it locked up. Romney could win, but the odds are against him. A friend of mine had an argument with a conservative friend about a poll of Washington state,a blue state that Romney won't compete in. The conservative guy couldn't believe Obama had a double digit lead. He insisted that the lead had to be lower! I would have understood questioning swing state polls, but Washington? I don't think many conservative realize that Obama is still popular(not as much as in 2008). Many who are disappointed in the president still plan on voting for him. Conservative live in their own world where Obama is the worst president ever. Election night is going to be crazy!! Gay marriage is expected to win in at least two of the four places,Maine and Washiston state, were it is up for a vote. Maryland and Minnesota gay marriage amendments are too close to call. If Obama wins conservatives wil lose thir minds!

[dawn9476]

Second, Romney would not just eliminate all welfare, but his plan does plan to cut it back. There is much abuse and duplication in the welfare system (and other assistance programs) that needs to be fixed. And as the economy hopefully gets fixed, this can continue to be scaled back.

Romney is going to give more control over to the states which is going to make the problem much, much worse because states are strapped enough as it is. He's also not going to be able to fix the economy because all the other cuts he plans on making are going to be devastating.

[singsingsing]

I couldn't believe Romney said these people feel entitled to healthcare, food, and housing... like that's a bad thing?! People ARE entitled to all of those things! My God, what kind of a society do you want to live in? Why do people like Romney even think governments exist?

[dawn9476]

Every frickin' poll except Rasmussen cooks polls for the Democrats. If you look at the percentage polled you will find way more Democrats polled than Republicans.

The WSJ, which is run by Rupert Murdoch, cooks polls for Democrats? :lol:

[Witsec7]

I couldn't believe Romney said these people feel entitled to healthcare, food, and housing... like that's a bad thing?! People ARE entitled to all of those things! My God, what kind of a society do you want to live in? Why do people like Romney even think governments exist?

Yeah WTF people want and need food? That is just soooo wrong. (>sarcasm off).

[Kira]

Every frickin' poll except Rasmussen cooks polls for the Democrats. If you look at the percentage polled you will find way more Democrats polled than Republicans.

Oversampling has never been an issue with polls. If they poll Arkansas, they'll over sample republicans. In 2008 a Washington Post poll had Virginia +6D and Obama won the state.Todays Virginia poll was +9D because Virginia is becoming more blue. Sometimes it works the opposite way. Iowa has more registered republicans and it has been blue. Earlier this year an Iowa poll that was +1R had Obama in the lead. The problem people have with Rasmussen this year is they think this will be like 2010 and therefore more republican will come out to vote. That's a bad indicator because presidential elections have a higher turnout than congressional ones.

[linnea27]

In a nutshell Mitt will cut taxes on the rich thus giving them incentive to expand/hire which will allow more jobs to be created and increase production and spending.

On the other hand, Obama wants to tax the rich to death thus giving business owners and large companies no incentive to expand or hire which will continue to keep our economy in the tank. Not only this, but Obama actually thinks that the extra taxes on the 1 or 2 percent will help pay down the national debt. LOL

I admit I was wrong about the tax info. Sorry.

This is NOT TRUE. Companies do not hire because they get tax breaks. No company says "Huh. We are getting by just fine with our existing work force. But let's hire more people just for the hell of it because we were given a tax break." You know what companies do with this money? Save it. That's it.

Why do companies hire? Supply and demand. When demand picks up, they need to hire more to keep up with that demand. You want companies to hire? Put that money in the hands of the middle class, who will go out and spend it, creating demand, and forcing companies to hire.

Second, rich people on their own do not create (many) jobs. There was a great article by Stephen King about why he and people like him do not create jobs on their own. He's rich. Who does he hire? Someone to clean his house and do the gardening, maybe. But tax breaks will not cause him to go out and create a business that hires tons of people.

[ADoyle90815]

This is NOT TRUE. Companies do not hire because they get tax breaks. No company says "Huh. We are getting by just fine with our existing work force. But let's hire more people just for the hell of it because we were given a tax break." You know what companies do with this money? Save it. That's it.

Why do companies hire? Supply and demand. When demand picks up, they need to hire more to keep up with that demand. You want companies to hire? Put that money in the hands of the middle class, who will go out and spend it, creating demand, and forcing companies to hire.

Second, rich people on their own do not create (many) jobs. There was a great article by Stephen King about why he and people like him do not create jobs on their own. He's rich. Who does he hire? Someone to clean his house and do the gardening, maybe. But tax breaks will not cause him to go out and create a business that hires tons of people.

This. Companies hire people because of supply and demand, and when those go down significantly, they start laying off people and continue to save the tax break they got when they hired those people at one point. I just got laid off recently, but I don't consider myself a victim at all since I knew it was a possibility as business was slow for a while. I'm in that 47%, but I'm anything but lazy as I worked my ass off and went to college so I could become the type of woman fundies hate as I would rather support myself instead of relying on a headship. Also, my being willing to work also improves things since when I get married, there's 2 incomes which can become a backup if one of us were to be laid off in the future.

[Peas n carrots]

This is NOT TRUE. Companies do not hire because they get tax breaks. No company says "Huh. We are getting by just fine with our existing work force. But let's hire more people just for the hell of it because we were given a tax break." You know what companies do with this money? Save it. That's it.

Why do companies hire? Supply and demand. When demand picks up, they need to hire more to keep up with that demand. You want companies to hire? Put that money in the hands of the middle class, who will go out and spend it, creating demand, and forcing companies to hire.

Second, rich people on their own do not create (many) jobs. There was a great article by Stephen King about why he and people like him do not create jobs on their own. He's rich. Who does he hire? Someone to clean his house and do the gardening, maybe. But tax breaks will not cause him to go out and create a business that hires tons of people.

Mitt and his 1% friends forget they do not live in a vacuum. Their wealth is dependent upon the labor of those who they pay much, much less. I'm sure nothing would have got done at Bain without Admins Assistants, Staff Coordinators, interns, low level analysts etc. Apparently the only Americans who are entitled to feel entitled are him and his ilk. Heaven forbid someone should get food and shelter over Mitt getting another home!

Mitt would be nowhere without the help of the 47% (who mostly pay taxes). He is a smug ass bitch who always had a safety net provided by his family's wealth, and he wants to winnow away at the already thin net the other 99% have? What a douche. I work more than the minimum of 40 hours a week, travel away from my home on a frequent basis (it ain't vacation...I'm working 14 hour days when traveling for business), and work to draw in new business. I don't take a dime nor do I expect to take a fucking dime from the government. I claim few exemptions, pay my taxes and pay my student loans bills every month. This man doesnt know what it is like to worry about losing their job and literally having nowhere to go with tens of thousands in student loans hanging over their heads.

If what Jericho said was true that companies would get tax breaks for hiring, why am I doing the work of 3 people at the moment? I work for a very large national company, and not even they get this kind of advantage. Maybe this is true for some small businesses, but in my experience this is not generally true.

[emmiedahl]

That's the overall tax rate. But Reagan made a substantial cut in taxes to the rich.

http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2012/07/10/bill-oreilly-ghost-ronald-reagan-haunting-president-obama

So it brought success under Reagan (and, you know, tripled the deficit) but it will be punitive under Obama?

[dawbs]

AKA, I hate rich people. They have too much money and don't deserve it. They should be forced by the government to give it to the poor and middle class.

The constitution never intended for it to be this way. Our God given rights allow for nobody to hold us down, NOT for the government to hold us up.

wait, we're allowed to just say "aka" and pretend it's a quote now?

AWESOME. That makes debate so much better :roll:

"[M]y job is is not to worry about those people" (FTR, I am one of 'those people' by his calculations)

AKA

MITTENS IS GOING TO KILL MY FAMILY!

[linnea27]

wait, we're allowed to just say "aka" and pretend it's a quote now?

AWESOME. That makes debate so much better :roll:

"[M]y job is is not to worry about those people" (FTR, I am one of 'those people' by his calculations)

AKA

MITTENS IS GOING TO KILL MY FAMILY!

:lol:

[Gil]

[emmiedahl]

Considering that we are still suffering the ill effects of Reaganomics, I am surprised anyone will vote for a President who wants to re-instate them.

[desertvixen]

In a nutshell Mitt will cut taxes on the rich thus giving them incentive to expand/hire which will allow more jobs to be created and increase production and spending.

Only if the money they would have paid in taxes is required to be spent on keeping American jobs in this country, and not outsourcing them. Even that's not feasible, really.

[lawfulevil]

Jericho, why don't you and me make a little bet?

If Romney wins, as you're evidently 100% positive he will, I will put a Romney sticker on my car for the entire month of December. I will prove it by uploading a new picture of my poor violated car every day, with intact EXIF data.

If Obama wins, as I am 70% positive he will, you agree to be perma-banned. That also means no sockpuppets. Banned until the Earth falls into the Sun.

Got it?

[JenniferJuniper]

"If I were Iran - a crazed fanatic - I'd say let's get a little fissile material to Hezbollah, have them carry it to Chicago or some other place, and then if anything goes wrong, or America starts acting up, we'll just say, 'Guess what? Unless you stand down, why, we're going to let off a dirty bomb'."

Mitt Romney on The Video advising terrorists how best to attack the United States.

Seriously, there are no words to describe what a fuckwad this guy is, and how utterly unfit he is to command.

[Guest Anonymous]

"If I were Iran - a crazed fanatic - I'd say let's get a little fissile material to Hezbollah, have them carry it to Chicago or some other place, and then if anything goes wrong, or America starts acting up, we'll just say, 'Guess what? Unless you stand down, why, we're going to let off a dirty bomb'."

Mitt Romney on The Video advising terrorists how best to attack the United States.

Seriously, there are no words to describe what a fuckwad this guy is, and how utterly unfit he is to command.

Well, I'm relieved. At least Mitt Romney's terrorist plans are stupid and make no sense.

[hapamama]

My family is part of the 47%. We have zero tax liability due to child tax credits. Remove the child tax credit and we'd be paying 13.4% of our income in federal income tax.

We also pay about 4% for State income tax, and that will probably increase soon.

And we pay property taxes, which include parcel taxes for school, sanitation, emergency services and some other weird measures and bonds.

And we pay tax on gas... over 50 cents per gallon where I live. Oh, and 8.25% sales tax....