Romney's Message Is Changing/Romney Secret Tape (merged)

[Sprocket]

Check the facts. No modern day president has released 10 years of taxes.

I will answer my own question. Yes you are this stupid. Here are Obama and Biden's tax returns for the last ten years.

http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/

[BlackHawk]

First of all the economy is NOT recovering. (mainstream media strikes again). Every month, way more people are dropping out the workforce than those who are getting jobs. That's why the jobs report, as bad as it sounds every month, is actually way worse than it looks.

Second, Romney would not just eliminate all welfare, but his plan does plan to cut it back. There is much abuse and duplication in the welfare system (and other assistance programs) that needs to be fixed. And as the economy hopefully gets fixed, this can continue to be scaled back.

So in other words, you did not answer the question... nice.

The economy is recovering, but that would require you to do research instead of listening to Fox news. Either way that is a moot point in this conversation.

So Mittens is not wanting to eliminate welfare but cut it back. So while he cuts it back, what happens to the people who are no longer covered? Where is this abuse and duplication? Is a woman getting food stamps AND WIC considered duplication? You didn't answer my questions about what happens to the people who lose their food stamps and government programs that allow them to keep food on the table and roof over their heads.

[jericho]

There's a reason for that. His words are at odds with reality and would alienate people who would otherwise vote for him. As mentioned, the elderly who may vote conservatively will (hopefully and SHOULD) be offended that while they may not pay a lot in federal income tax,

still pay taxes. If they own their own home, they still have to pay property tax. If they buy food or anything else at a store, they have to pay state and/or local sales tax. If their spouse dies, they have to pay estate taxes. If they get a social security check, they still have to pay taxes on it. They may get it back when they files their tax returns, but that's because they have such little money coming in. What would you have them do? Get 85 year old grandma out of her wheelchair and have her work a full time job so that Mittens can get more tax breaks? Are you really that stupid?

You are pulling an extreme example out of a hat. Of course there are some elderly who can't work need help, but that's not the majority of people in the 47%.

[jericho]

So in other words, you did not answer the question... nice.

The economy is recovering, but that would require you to do research instead of listening to Fox news. Either way that is a moot point in this conversation.

So Mittens is not wanting to eliminate welfare but cut it back. So while he cuts it back, what happens to the people who are no longer covered? Where is this abuse and duplication? Is a woman getting food stamps AND WIC considered duplication? You didn't answer my questions about what happens to the people who lose their food stamps and government programs that allow them to keep food on the table and roof over their heads.

The answer (again) is that we scale back as much as we can without hurting people who exist on welfare currently. At the same time we work on solutions that help people get off welfare and get back to work. The goal should be to shrink the population on welfare, not enlarge it like the current administration is doing. There are actually PSA's out that state that non enough people take advantage of welfare. Unbelievable!

[Sprocket]

You are pulling an extreme example out of a hat. Of course there are some elderly who can't work need help, but that's not the majority of people in the 47%.

An extreme example? Fine, how about regular people who work minimum wage jobs and have children? They pay payroll tax, property tax if they own a home, and sales tax. Tax is still tax, and everyone pays.

[BlackHawk]

I will answer my own question. Yes you are this stupid. Here are Obama and Biden's tax returns for the last ten years.

http://www.barackobama.com/tax-returns/

http://www.taxhistory.org/www/website.n ... taxreturns

There are the released Tax returns from the modern presidents. It seems just about every one of them released their tax returns, or at least a summary, when asked (exception Roosevelt). Even your precious Reagan released 6 years... couldn't that become standard for your base... whatever precious Reagan did you must do too!

[Witsec7]

So in other words, you did not answer the question... nice.

The economy is recovering, but that would require you to do research instead of listening to Fox news. Either way that is a moot point in this conversation.

So Mittens is not wanting to eliminate welfare but cut it back. So while he cuts it back, what happens to the people who are no longer covered? Where is this abuse and duplication? Is a woman getting food stamps AND WIC considered duplication? You didn't answer my questions about what happens to the people who lose their food stamps and government programs that allow them to keep food on the table and roof over their heads.

Jericho isn't able to answer the question since Mitt has given no details as to exactly how he will facilitate his cutbacks or what he deems to be a duplication of programs.

I'm going to digress a bit to make another point. I'm a senior living on income well below the poverty level. Last year I paid over 18k in federal and state income tax. This year I won't even bother to file since my income is so low. But I still pay taxes every time I write a check for a utility bill.

[StarrieEyedKat]

So in other words, you did not answer the question... nice.

The economy is recovering, but that would require you to do research instead of listening to Fox news. Either way that is a moot point in this conversation.

So Mittens is not wanting to eliminate welfare but cut it back. So while he cuts it back, what happens to the people who are no longer covered? Where is this abuse and duplication? Is a woman getting food stamps AND WIC considered duplication? You didn't answer my questions about what happens to the people who lose their food stamps and government programs that allow them to keep food on the table and roof over their heads.

And how can one avoid the "abuse and duplication" simply by cutting back on welfare entirely? Wouldn't that just screw both the people that are abusing AND the people that truly need it? Maybe he should focus less on cutting back and start worrying more about stopping the "abuse and duplication."

[BlackHawk]

Jericho isn't able to answer the question since Mitt has given no details as to exactly how he will facilitate his cutbacks or what he deems to be a duplication of programs.

I'm going to digress a bit to make another point. I'm a senior living on income well below the poverty level. Last year I paid over 18k in federal and state income tax. This year I won't even bother to file since my income is so low. But I still pay taxes every time I write a check for a utility bill.

You are so right. I bet most people don't realize exactly how often they pay taxes. You buy gas, you pay a tax. If you buy anything, you pay a tax. You pay a bill, chances are you are also paying a tax... I hate the idea that SOME PEOPLE don't pay taxes and shouldn't get anything cause they don't file a claim. It's really obnoxious.

[jericho]

An extreme example? Fine, how about regular people who work minimum wage jobs and have children? They pay payroll tax, property tax if they own a home, and sales tax. Tax is still tax, and everyone pays.

Correct, but Mitt was talking about INCOME tax in a private closed meeting not meant for public consumption. In reality, he shouldn't even be having to explain anything he said there. It wasn't spoken to or worded as for a press conference.

[singsingsing]

Jericho is typical. If dear Mitt was caught on film saying, "I hate poor people," he/she would be on here insisting that it was the best thing to ever happen for Romney's campaign.

[B5SnowDog]

According to Mittens Romney, 47% of us will vote Obama strictly to keep our "government handouts" coming.

My sister's ex-boyfriend once asked me if my husband and I were Democrats because we didn't want to lose our government handouts; I'm not sure what he meant by that because we're not on any programs. He and Mittens have a lot in common - they're both smug, privileged Mormon men. Heaven help us all if they have anything more in common and he wins the election.

[Sprocket]

Correct, but Mitt was talking about INCOME tax in a private closed meeting not meant for public consumption. In reality, he shouldn't even be having to explain anything he said there. It wasn't spoken to or worded as for a press conference.

Who effing cares? He still said it and it's obviously what he thinks. I'm glad this came out so at least we know how he truly feels rather than some scripted crap that someone else wrote.

Regular, minimum wage workers pay income tax. It's taken out of their check every, single month. However, when they are living below a certain bracket, they get their money back when they file their yearly taxes. Mitt Romney only paid 13% on what he claimed (not what was squirred away in other country's tax havens.) He thinks that fair because that's what the tax laws said he had to pay. Only he wants to pay less on his millions and minimum wage workers to pay more on their pittance.

[Witsec7]

You are so right. I bet most people don't realize exactly how often they pay taxes. You buy gas, you pay a tax. If you buy anything, you pay a tax. You pay a bill, chances are you are also paying a tax... I hate the idea that SOME PEOPLE don't pay taxes and shouldn't get anything cause they don't file a claim. It's really obnoxious.

There is a big what if for people in my circumstances. What if Mitt reveals he will limit benefits and programs to folks who pay taxes? Will my SNAP benefits be eliminated? What about the working poor family with children who get EITC, will their medical and SNAP benefits be eliminated? (BTW I receive no medical benefits and am uninsured and wait listed for the OHP).

The simple fact that Mitt or his party has failed to release any detail on what they will be cutting is what keeps me on the streets as a volunteer for the Obama campaign. I live in a blue state, but I will continue to work at educating voters ever chance I get.

[JenniferJuniper]

Great site, although I'm sure it needs to be updated hourly at this point:

Dumbest Mitt Romney Quotes

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library ... PS=837%3A6

[BlackHawk]

Correct, but Mitt was talking about INCOME tax in a private closed meeting not meant for public consumption. In reality, he shouldn't even be having to explain anything he said there. It wasn't spoken to or worded as for a press conference.

He still has to own what he said. He said it, good, bad or indifferent. He made statements while running for president of the united states of America to people who are funding his campaign. By default, those statements he makes "behind closed doors" are the most important. Those are the statements where he is showing what he truly wants for America... those are the things we are American people need to know. It's those statements that show what his true agenda are as president... and to be honest, those are the statements that will sink his ship.

Everyone has to own what they say. Those are the things that show your true character and if you are learning anything in this world. If you can't speak about something you said in a meeting to donors, then you have no business saying it.

[Sola]

These aren't gaffes. This is what he really believes and he's finally saying it. As a supporter of Mitt Romney I can tell you that we have been waiting for him to say this stuff for months! But he's been so afraid of the media attacking him on it because they are so in love with Obama and can't stand to hear the other side. Well its getting out now, and even though the media is attacking and acting like its the worst thing for Romney's campaign, its not. His voters have wanted to hear this and they are finally getting to hear it. The "secret" tape release could be the best thing to happen to Mitt. We'll see.

You know Jericho, you're right, these weren't gaffes and it is what Romney really believes. And that is what makes the prospect of him becoming the president of the USA really worrying.

I'm glad he said what he did, I'm glad it's out in the open now. Because now people can see what he really is. He can't bullshit any more and say that he gives a damn about ordinary people because now everybody knows he doesn't.

[Buggaboo]

Great site, although I'm sure it needs to be updated hourly at this point:

Dumbest Mitt Romney Quotes

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library ... PS=837%3A6

Hourly?? That's optimistic! ;) I was thinking minute to minute. :roll:

[Sola]

First of all the economy is NOT recovering. (mainstream media strikes again). Every month, way more people are dropping out the workforce than those who are getting jobs. That's why the jobs report, as bad as it sounds every month, is actually way worse than it looks.

Second, Romney would not just eliminate all welfare, but his plan does plan to cut it back. There is much abuse and duplication in the welfare system (and other assistance programs) that needs to be fixed. And as the economy hopefully gets fixed, this can continue to be scaled back.

Bullshit.

The US economy is recovering. Not quickly, not by a huge amount, but it is recovering, slowly. I suppose you expect that the economy should be all sunshine and sparkles after 4 years of Obama? Get real, the damage done to the US economy will take years to fix. Plus it affected the entire world and sent the economies of other countries in recession. The US wont recover properly until every country linked recovers. It's that simple.

Do you want to know what happens when huge cuts are made and welfare is slashed? Take a look at the UK right now. We're in a double dip recession because our wonderful conservative government thought it best to slash services and welfare to save money. Then they gave tax cuts to the rich so that the rich could 'generate wealth'. It didn't work. You know why? Those budget cuts caused more and more jobs to be lost. Because the banks are too scared to lend who might have survived the first half of recession, cannot expand and fill the gap. So there are fewer jobs all round. Those people who lost their jobs in the budget cuts are competing for fewer and fewer private sector jobs. In the meantime they are claiming welfare to survive which in turn is meaning lower tax income for the government and higher outgoings for the welfare budget.

Oh and these new welfare recipients, they suddenly have a lot less money with which to buy things. Because they aren't buying things, demand is low. Because demand is low more and more businesses are going bust and laying off more employees who in turn claim welfare.

As for the rich who got the tax cuts, they aren't creating wealth.

If you want the US to go the way of the UK and Europe, go on and vote for Romney. However if you want the US to recover then think twice about voting for any candidate who wants to give tax cuts to the rich at the expense of people at the bottom end of the scale.

[Sola]

Check the facts. No modern day president has released 10 years of taxes.

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Even I know that's not true. Google it, they are there.

[Luvchild]

I haven't read this entire thread, so forgive me if I'm duplicating. The whole recorded speech was so arrogant. Saying he went to China and women were working in a factory to earn money for marriage and they had 12 to a room. Oh, so the Chinese are better than us too? They work harder than me with my two jobs and a family to take care of? It's a different culture there!!!!! When I was unemployed, I would have gladly stood outside in line to get a job at a factory here in America!!! But there were none because of MITT and his Republican cronies. And I work hard and pay taxes. I want affordable healthcare and I want to know I'm going to be okay as a senior citizen. I can't stand Mitt Romney. He has no empathy for people not born into wealth. HE has NO UNDERSTANDING. He has no idea how lucky he is. He cannot relate to the average American. He can't. I can't believe a middle class person or a female would vote for him. I know why the dumbass racist hicks are voting for him. I am disgusted by this man.

[Linnea]

You are pulling an extreme example out of a hat. Of course there are some elderly who can't work need help, but that's not the majority of people in the 47%.

Actually, the majority of the 47% who don't pay federal income taxes are PEOPLE WITH JOBS whose income is too low, once you factor in their deductions, for them to owe any taxes.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezr ... in-charts/

[Austin]

You know Jericho, you're right, these weren't gaffes and it is what Romney really believes. And that is what makes the prospect of him becoming the president of the USA really worrying.

I'm glad he said what he did, I'm glad it's out in the open now. Because now people can see what he really is. He can't bullshit any more and say that he gives a damn about ordinary people because now everybody knows he doesn't.

Interesting that these folks never defended President Obama when he uttered his "inelegant" remarks about guns and religion with the "Hey, it was a private event" excuse. Such fucking hypocrites, it makes me sick.

[Buggaboo]

Liar, liar, pants on fire. Even I know that's not true. Google it, they are there.

But isn't it obvious that Obama owns Google, too? Oh I know, wait, wait, he owns the entire internet! :roll: ;)

[formergothardite]

Obama owns EVERYTHING! Except for maybe a Chinese sweat shop, Mitt gets that.