What's with all of these Christians claiming to be Jews?

[ilovetchotchkes]

Eh, if the troll runs away we can make Yiddish jokes. Like the one I am about to make right now....

I can tell him to go shit in the ocean in Yiddish... that one is always fun.

[SpeakNow]

Maybe we can make him/her/it answer my questions instead of repeating him/her/itself with the same "examples" that fail to prove his/her/its point.

[pomology]

I can tell him to go shit in the ocean in Yiddish... that one is always fun.

Yiddish is an excellent language. When I was little and I told my grandparents that I was bored they would tell me "Gai shlog dein kup en vant" which means "Go hit your head against the wall."

[GeoBQn]

Why the hell is Brian Susan bringing in the Book of Enoch as evidence? It's not canonical in mainstream Judaism--or Christianity, for that matter.

[Anxious Girl]

Why the hell is Brian Susan bringing in the Book of Enoch as evidence? It's not canonical in mainstream Judaism--or Christianity, for that matter.

Maybe to prove how "Biblically smart" she is? :|

[emmiedahl]

I don't even know what briansusanwhoeverthefucktheyaretoday is talking about with angels and Jesus and such. Does anyone know what their point is?

[SpeakNow]

I don't even know what briansusanwhoeverthefucktheyaretoday is talking about with angels and Jesus and such. Does anyone know what their point is?

not a clue. Maybe we can get Linda to clarify

[heinz57]

I didn't know about the Arabic.

Just my two cents:

In Hebrew Vav can be pronounced "V", or "W", or "OO" (as in "boot"), depending on the position and the surrounding letters (I can give examples if anyone's that interested).

Actually, it was explained to me that the name is never pronounced because when the niqqud system (vowel and pronunciation indications - the little dots, basically) was introduced, this word didn't get any. So we can't be certain how it would be pronounced, and it would be seriously wrong to mispronounce it - better err on the safe side with Adonai.

I never understood why faux-Jews flaunt it around so much, because if they want to pass for Jews they should avoid saying it, instead of giving us some yah-some take on the pronunciation.

[Guest Anonymous]

emmiedahl, ilovetchotchkes and other FJ Facebookers, I need you!

I don't have a Facebook account but I have been following the argument with Brian Susan and it has been infuriating. What source is Brian Susan using to claim that only God accepts worship and performs miracles? Why the fuck is Brian Susan surprised by apparent inconsistencies stemming from a non-canonical source? Why the fuck should Jews (or anyone) accept the Bible as an infallible historical record?

Can somebody please crush this idiot's stupid arguments on Facebook?!

[ilovetchotchkes]

emmiedahl, ilovetchotchkes and other FJ Facebookers, I need you!

I don't have a Facebook account but I have been following the argument with Brian Susan and it has been infuriating. What source is Brian Susan using to claim that only God accepts worship and performs miracles? Why the fuck is Brian Susan surprised by apparent inconsistencies stemming from a non-canonical source? Why the fuck should Jews (or anyone) accept the Bible as an infallible historical record?

Can somebody please crush this idiot's stupid arguments on Facebook?!

I'm the one who along with Emmie started yammering away in Yiddish... :D Nischt getoygan un nischt gefloygan means "It didn't jump up an it didn't fly" which is basically... saying "bullshit" in yiddish.

[heinz57]

emmiedahl, ilovetchotchkes and other FJ Facebookers, I need you!

I don't have a Facebook account but I have been following the argument with Brian Susan and it has been infuriating. What source is Brian Susan using to claim that only God accepts worship and performs miracles? Why the fuck is Brian Susan surprised by apparent inconsistencies stemming from a non-canonical source? Why the fuck should Jews (or anyone) accept the Bible as an infallible historical record?

Can somebody please crush this idiot's stupid arguments on Facebook?!

I haven't followed the argument, so this might be irrelevant, but as to the bolded: actually Orthodox Jews do consider the Bible as an infallible historical record. They don't believe Torah was written by men, it was written by God, so it's obviously infallible, on all counts.

ETA: That's why it's now year 5572 and some rabbis said "Jurastic Park" was unkosher, because it contradicts the Torah chronology.

[Arete]

Just my two cents:

In Hebrew Vav can be pronounced "V", or "W", or "OO" (as in "boot"), depending on the position and the surrounding letters (I can give examples if anyone's that interested).

I actually would be. I'm trying to learn some Hebrew, so every little bit is a help. I know the letters and can sound out words on a sort of kindergarten level.

[Guest Anonymous]

I should stop reading the argument but I can't. It's like a torrent of Caps Lock diarrhea. Can somebody please shut this guy down?

Also, heinz57: while Orthodox Jews do see the Torah as written by God, the Jews for Jesus plan of attack seems to be to target Jews that are not particularly religious and have limited knowledge of the scriptures and, therefore, people who probably don't think that Jewish texts were written by God.

Once upon a time, when I was young and innocent, I heard the words 'Jews for Jesus' and assumed that it was an organisation of Christians who happened to have Jewish family backgrounds (say, a Jewish father or grandfather, or whatever). I long for those innocent days. Sigh.

Edited: Wording

[ilovetchotchkes]

I should stop reading the argument but I can't. It's like a torrent of Caps Lock diarrhea. Can somebody please shut this guy down?

Also, heinz57: while Orthodox Jews do see the Torah as written by God, the Jews for Jesus plan of attack seems to be to target Jews that are not particularly religious and have limited knowledge of the scriptures and, therefore, people who probably don't think that Jewish texts were written by God.

Once upon a time, when I was young and innocent, I heard the words 'Jews for Jesus' assumed that it was an organisation of Christians who happened to have Jewish family backgrounds (say, a Jewish father or grandfather, or whatever). I long for those innocent days. Sigh.

That's what I used to think too. That's what my mother STILL thinks.

[Guest Anonymous]

NOW ABOUT PERSICUTION-Holocaust- Jews Christians Gypsies Poles and ethnic Russians were in the camps in large numbers.

If you are speaking of people in the U S today i agree that the persecution is minor. But under the emporer Dioclacian at least 10 million christians were martyred. If you want an historucal book read foxes book of martyrs. It is still in print

Grrr! Grrr! This is me growling with unspeakable rage. Grrr!

[heinz57]

I actually would be. I'm trying to learn some Hebrew, so every little bit is a help. I know the letters and can sound out words on a sort of kindergarten level.

As a general rule, if vav is in initial position, it will be pronounced as "v", if it is in mediane position it will be "o" or "u" (if you have niqquds, you know, but in modern hebrew you don't, so you have to guess), and [from my experience] if it's in final position, you take a wild guess :D

so you get:

standard initial position: ani ve'ata (me and you)

standard median position: bol (stamp), shuk (market)

final position: achshav (now), tan lo (give him), anachnu (we, us)

so if you want to start by the "u" or "o" sound you put a silent aleph in front of the vav: ulpan (hebrew class), and if you want to have a "v" sound in the middle of the word, you double the vav (though usually it will be a bet/vet) - I can't think of an example though...

BUT in initial position vav will be pronounced "u"/"w" in front of bet, vav, mem and peh. so suddenly you'll get "ani w'moshe" (me and Moshe) - though from my understanding it's more formal speech.

But vav pronounced as "w" in initial position is alive and well in imported words wikipedia, weiss, (from english), wadi (from arabic).

My first name starts with the "v" sound and I was strongly advised to spell it with a double vav to make sure I didn't get a "w" sound.

Sorry for this long explanation, you asked!

ETA that I just remembered a doubled vav in the middle: avir (air)

[ilovetchotchkes]

Grrr! Grrr! This is me growling with unspeakable rage. Grrr!

There's no way 10 million Christians were martyred because I dont' think there were that many Christians ALIVE back then. My knowledge of the history of Rome is not that great...

I just responded. The ONLY reason I'm still arguing is that my blood pressure was 68/45 today at the dr's office and I figure, if I get good and angry, maybe it'll raise it to a normal range... LOL

[Arete]

As a general rule, if vav is in initial position, it will be pronounced as "v", if it is in mediane position it will be "o" or "u" (if you have niqquds, you know, but in modern hebrew you don't, so you have to guess), and [from my experience] if it's in final position, you take a wild guess :D

so you get:

standard initial position: ani ve'ata (me and you)

standard median position: bol (stamp), shuk (market)

final position: achshav (now), tan lo (give him), anachnu (we, us)

so if you want to start by the "u" or "o" sound you put a silent aleph in front of the vav: ulpan (hebrew class), and if you want to have a "v" sound in the middle of the word, you double the vav (though usually it will be a bet/vet) - I can't think of an example though...

BUT in initial position vav will be pronounced "u"/"w" in front of bet, vav, mem and peh. so suddenly you'll get "ani w'moshe" (me and Moshe) - though from my understanding it's more formal speech.

But vav pronounced as "w" in initial position is alive and well in imported words wikipedia, weiss, (from english), wadi (from arabic).

My first name starts with the "v" sound and I was strongly advised to spell it with a double vav to make sure I didn't get a "w" sound.

Sorry for this long explanation, you asked!

ETA that I just remembered a doubled vav in the middle: avir (air)

No no no! Thank you for taking the time to write this explaination down. I very much appreciate it. *continues writing it down in her 'learning hebrew notebook* :D :D :D

[Arete]

There's no way 10 million Christians were martyred because I dont' think there were that many Christians ALIVE back then. My knowledge of the history of Rome is not that great...

They've pulled all their other "facts" out of their tailpipes, why would that be any different?

[Coconut Flan]

Ugh. What was the earth's population during Diocletian. Would they bother learning to spell also?

"Modern historians estimate that during this period, known as the Diocletianic or Great Persecution, as many as 3,000−3,500 Christians were killed by the Roman Empire." Source: Frend, Martyrdom and Persecution, 393–94; Liebeschuetz, 251–52.

ETA: I found an estimated world population of 190 million in 300 around the time of Diocletian.

[ilovetchotchkes]

Ugh. What was the earth's population during Diocletian. Would they bother learning to spell also?

"Modern historians estimate that during this period, known as the Diocletianic or Great Persecution, as many as 3,000−3,500 Christians were killed by the Roman Empire." Source: Frend, Martyrdom and Persecution, 393–94; Liebeschuetz, 251–52.

ETA: I found an estimated world population of 190 million in 300 around the time of Diocletian.

I used wikipedia (i know i know bad, but i've got a wiggly baby who keeps kicking the keyboard while she nurses, she's been nursing since 5pm and hasn't come up for air hardly!!) and they said 20,000 which i'm sure your numbers are closer to being right, but 20k is still a far cry from 10 million.

[Coconut Flan]

Yeah, 3,000 or 20,000 still isn't anywhere near 10 milion. I remember some publication, maybe a fundy one, that I saw a year or two ago and I think it mentioned 10 million Christians killed in persecutions. I kind of think that may have been since the year 33 all total though. Even so, that may not be accurate.

[ilovetchotchkes]

OH MAI EVER LOVING GAWD.

"I'm Jewish, an Orthodox person said so". Where's the "i want to bang my head against a wall until it bleeds" smiley?

[pomology]

OH MAI EVER LOVING GAWD.

"I'm Jewish, an Orthodox person said so". Where's the "i want to bang my head against a wall until it bleeds" smiley?

No no no. Tchtchkes. An Orthodox PERSON didn't tell him so. An Orthodox told him so.

And ahahahahaha. WHAT? People are Jews as long as they are an 1/8th Jewish on their mother's side? Dude, nobody defines Jews that way. Even the fucking Nuremberg laws didn't define Jews like that. They defined Jews as anybody with a Jewish grandparent. On any side. Which is why you qualify under Israel's right of return law as long as you have one Jewish grandparents and never converted to another religion if you were born to be halachically Jewish. To be a Jew, according to halachah, your entire matrilineal line has to be Jewish, or you have to have converted to Judaism. Reform Jews don't necessarily adhere to the guideline of matrilineal descent, but they also don't consider themselves bound by halachah.

I thought maybe this guy really was born and raised Jewish and then got into Jesus later and the stuff in his profile only applied to his wife, but really. This guy never was, never has been, and never will be Jewish. He is, however, a deceptive little shit who wants people to think that he's Jewish so he can proselytize Christianity.

[StarrieEyedKat]

OH MAI EVER LOVING GAWD.

"I'm Jewish, an Orthodox person said so". Where's the "i want to bang my head against a wall until it bleeds" smiley?

When I read "i am a jew an orthadox told me so" I almost died laughing. I know nothing about Judaism, so I'm only popping up in the discussion to be a complete smart ass, and I couldn't let that one go by - emmiedahl is now a unicorn thanks to me, and I'm a billionaire thanks to ilovetchotchkes.