I love my large family facebook page

[StarrieEyedKat]

Please stop breeding now if the public denouncement of the Ezzos by the American Pediatric Society and the fact that babies have had failure to thrive because of your "fabulous" program did not deter you.

A hungry baby is in pain. A baby lying alone in a crib is scared. Your own convenience should not be worth your baby being in pain and afraid. If it is, like I said, please stop breeding. You are one of the "wants to have a huge family but does not give a damn about children" people I mentioned earlier in the thread.

But emmie, they only did it to keep the baby from manipulating them. Duh. :roll:

[SoybeanQueen]

However, we used the Babywise method (by the Ezzos) for all four of our children and I don't have one bad thing to say about it.

Not going to "fire away," but I disagree that it's a positive way to raise kids. I hate that it's framed as "Biblical" or "Christian." I don't believe for one minute that the Bible wants us to be that rigid in raising our kids, to the point that we ignore cries of hunger because babies are "manipulating" us. The scripture references are crap and completely out of context, too, in my opinion. I have a copy of it here that was given to my sister in law. She was horrified by it but kept it because she didn't want someone else to pick it up out of the trash or something. I found it at her house and wanted to read it just because of the controversy. Needless to say, it couldn't be further from my own parenting beliefs.

[VVV]

http://ezzo.info/

Of especial interest may be the timeline at http://ezzo.info/top-resources/top-timeline It is worth noting that Gary Ezzo's church kicked him out, disavowed the program, and that his daughters have been estranged from their parents for a long time.

He is a liar and a fraud.

Edited to clarify one sentence.

[emmiedahl]

This conversation from an Ezzo forum is just killing me. I am almost to ugly crying. wtf is wrong with people? http://ezzo.info/resources/timeline/81- ... n-michigan

[pixydust]

I don't understand how people can do Babywise. I breastfed, and if my babies cried my milk let down (hell, it let down if I heard a baby cry in the grocery store!), so what do these women do? Just hang out in wet bras all of the time because the baby is crying and hungry, but they aren't going to be "manipulated"? I couldn't do something that goes against nature so much! When the baby and your body are saying "feed the baby", you feed the baby!

[Chavymishmacoy]

I remember being at my kids school used book sale, and seeing Babywise. A mom I know was going on and on about how great it was so I got the book for a quarter. This was for baby number three. I just couldn't do it.

The link Emmie posted was awful. How upsetting.

[debrand]

I should just start a new thread. Sorry.

[BoomerLynn]

This conversation from an Ezzo forum is just killing me. I am almost to ugly crying. wtf is wrong with people? http://ezzo.info/resources/timeline/81- ... n-michigan

I feel sick after reading that. It is just heartbreaking and cruel.

[MonkeyMomma]

We don't have a large family, and I've never been to a Gothard conference although I sure as heck was raised "fundie" (i.e. swimming in JEANS, no mixed bathing, no dancing, private christian school, etc). However, we used the Babywise method (by the Ezzos) for all four of our children and I don't have one bad thing to say about it. We only used the "eat wake sleep" thing, not the "couch time" or "sign language" etc, but it was fabulous and I would recommend it to anyone.

Fire away............

Since you asked .... :roll:

In addition to what has already been said by emmiedahl, et. al., consider this: even Dr. Richard Ferber, the doctor who is essentially responsible for our modern incarnation of "crying it out" or "Ferberizing" to help babies learn to sleep, thinks BabyWise is developmentally inappropriate and to harsh.

http://www.salon.com/1998/08/06/cov_06feature/

Please also note that BabyWise was not developed by anyone with an understanding of child development, nutrition, or sleep patterns, but by a conservative Christian with some pretty f'ed up theology about original sin and children.

When I was preparing to return to work after Monkey was born and I was looking at daycares, I fell in love with this one in-home place - hobby farm, organic garden, lots of outdoor playtime. I was sold until the owner handed me a copy of BabyWise and said how important it was that all the babies get on a good schedule. She talked about "training" the parents, as well as "training" the babies. I ran from there and never looked back. Instead, my son went to a corporate daycare center that managed the baby room thusly: feed babies when hungry, let them nap when they are sleepy, comfort them when they are distressed, and snuggle often. I think I made the right choice.

[freejoytoo]

On a side note, what's so biblical about jeans anyway? I don't think Jesus strolled around in denims.

[tankgirl]

I don't understand how people can do Babywise. I breastfed, and if my babies cried my milk let down (hell, it let down if I heard a baby cry in the grocery store!), so what do these women do? Just hang out in wet bras all of the time because the baby is crying and hungry, but they aren't going to be "manipulated"? I couldn't do something that goes against nature so much! When the baby and your body are saying "feed the baby", you feed the baby!

Most don't have this issue. On top of all the other issues this lovely program has, it also tends to mess up most BFing Moms supply. Most Moms who use Babywise from the start will end up not BFing because they never establish a good supply and most babies end up weaning super early. So most won't have a heavy let down for long, so not to many wet bras.

I wish I could reach out and shake that woman in that post or just steal little Timothy away. How can you just ignore all your natural insticts and be so cruel to a child? How does one get so get to this point to be so cruel?

[chaotic life]

Generally, Babywise mothers lack sufficient supply to continue to exclusively nurse after four months. Sometimes they are successful at continuing because they introduce early solids and/or bottles of formula. However, they almost never make it to the year mark, and if they do their supply is down to next to nothing.

Simply put, the milk supply will not survive the first big growth spurt at 12 weeks if you are not cue feeding.

I personally think Ezzo is a heartless monster who hides behind religion to get his rocks off by torturing babies and toddlers. However, even if you are more moderate in your opinion, Ezzo holds up to NO scrutiny, not religious, medical or child development standards are upheld by the man's program.

[happy atheist]

I wish I could reach out and shake that woman in that post or just steal little Timothy away. How can you just ignore all your natural insticts and be so cruel to a child? How does one get so get to this point to be so cruel?

She sounds incredibly stupid to me. She knows that this is wrong. She feels horrible leaving the baby to cry for so long. She knows it isn't working. Her doctor has told her this is a bad idea. And yet somehow she has herself convinced this is the right thing to do.

Shouldn't the doctor report her for child endangerment?

[Witsec7]

Every time I go to that page I realize how economically unprepared these folks are for large families. One woman is writing that when she takes the kids to the pool she has them shower and shampoo there to save on hot water. Another with something like 15 was taking advantage of free haircut day at JC Pennys and made apts. for each of the litter.

Today one mentioned that she saves on lunches all summer by having her kids go to summer lunch programs. Her brood is home schooled. I'm glad the kids are getting fed, but it just pisses me off that the ebil public schools aren't good for anything but free summer lunches for her kids.

Outside of financial strain a few mother's were discussing that they have no communication with adults besides their husbands for weeks on end. I wonder how they hang on to their mental health?

[ilovetchotchkes]

Me either. I was the weird kid who ate butter as a child. :roll:

I used to grab it out of the butter dish and lick it off my hands.

My son is the same. I've caught him stealing it off the counter tops and biting the end off of the stick....

[GeoBQn]

Maggie Daniels

Has anyone had a vasectomy reversal babies ? Or just had a vasectomy reversal ? Was it a positive thing ? Is anyone thinking of having a vasectomy reversal ? Pros and cons ??

Like · · 3 hours ago

Donna WeareHis I have had three VR babies + 13 additional VR pregnancies. Even with the losses, I still claim it all pros.

Is Donna counting every period as a miscarriage, or has she actually had 13 pregnancies ending in miscarriage?

[Witsec7]

Is Donna counting every period as a miscarriage, or has she actually had 13 pregnancies ending in miscarriage?

Yup sounds like a total of 13 babies in heaven.

[maybeizfundie]

Dude. :cry: That link is horrible.

What is the deal with 1 1/2 hour naps? I mean, I love it when my baby naps, and I understand the frustration of days when baby doesn't sleep (thus that controversial "Go the f--- to sleep" book. some days it just stinks and it's frustrating and all that). But really, that's life with a baby. They're all different, some don't need those long naps, as much as we'd like the down-time.

If she finds a doctor that supports GKGW, and letting an infant cry until it is bleeding and has lost its voice, that doctor needs to lose their liscense.

[Arete]

I wish I had never clicked that link. When you are overriding your own Mother's Instinct to follow a book and the results are a bleeding baby......I can't even...........

[Koala]

"I love my large family"....right. These women don't love children at all. If they did they couldn't treat them this way. They are cruel women who thrive on controlling little ones who aren't big enough to fight back. Makes me sick.

[maybeizfundie]

I do think it's worth noting that GKGW is not specific to large families, limited to large families, or practiced by all large families (even among those on the page under discussion here).

It is a stand-alone piece of crap that has been picked up by a variety of people, some fit the QF/ATI/VF bill, some don't.

[Terrie]

Ugh. Ezzo is disgusting. I want to make all those moms read Dr. Bruce Perry's "The Boy Who Was Raised as a Dog." It talks about trauma and neurological development in children and how this kind of neglect (which is what it is) can damage a child.

[pixydust]

Most don't have this issue. On top of all the other issues this lovely program has, it also tends to mess up most BFing Moms supply. Most Moms who use Babywise from the start will end up not BFing because they never establish a good supply and most babies end up weaning super early. So most won't have a heavy let down for long, so not to many wet bras.

I wish I could reach out and shake that woman in that post or just steal little Timothy away. How can you just ignore all your natural insticts and be so cruel to a child? How does one get so get to this point to be so cruel?

I guess that does make sense, I didn't think of it because I breastfed on demand. Why do people buy into something that is so against nature? If it's a God thing, don't they believe that God created their babies to cry when hungry and to want to be held and cuddled? UGH Ezzo makes me very stabby!

[chaotic life]

What they believe is taking St. Augustine's theology and perverting it even another step beyond that point.

Basically, they believe that babies are born full of sin and that any attempts they make to communicate their needs is their selfish and sinful nature trying to manipulate and control their parents. They truly believe that if they give into their infant's demands, they are permitting them to SIN and condemning them to damnation for their sin.

What they lack is a combination of a better theological perspective and some basic knowledge of child development.

People who fall for the teachings of Gary Ezzo really and truly do not understand that God gave babies the ability to cry so they can COMMUNICATE and that if a baby is crying, you have missed their first attempts to communicate their needs with you. A colicky baby will cry to communicate and will do so poorly because they are overwhelmed by the world around them and don't know how to function. Outside of colic, babies use a LOT of communication skills before they resort to crying. They cry because their other attempts have been missed.

If you understand that babies cry to communicate and not to manipulate, then Ezzo makes NO sense to you. However, most people do not parent deliberately. Many, many Christians (not merely Fundies) are terrified of failing to be Godly parents. They fear if they spoil their babies by giving them everything they demand, then they will not properly teach their children to sacrifice self and choose to follow God. It's not sound theology. It's quite perverted theology. However, I believe that Ezzo exploits the panicked fears of new Christian parents for his own profit margins.

Instead, what new panicked parents should be told is that they have the instincts and the hearts to determine what it is their babies require from them. That teaching a child to be graceful, loving and respectful of others comes not from being mean and controlling to them, but first treating them with grace, love, and respect. That things spoil when they are left alone to rot NOT when they are tenderly and carefully cared for and have their needs met as they require. Furthermore, cries are one communication that God has given infants who canno speak our adult language to teach us what they need. If you are a Christian then you need to understand and respect the way that God designed children to grow and develop naturally instead of trying to force them to violate their nature and the way God made them in the first place.

[LadyBlue]

I will never in a million years understand how anyone could believe a baby is crying to manipulate them. They can't talk, what else are they supposed to do, wait around until you magically realize they're hungry/tired/wet/dirty/lonely/scared?