Counting On Season 2 - Part 5

[Analytica49]

3 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

What exactly is involved in "defiling the marriage bed?"  Are we to assume that Jeremy is a virgin? Can he reclaim himself or is it just if the people getting married do the nasty before boob grants them permission?

You raise a good question. Maybe it's ok for Jeremy to have had sex with someone else before he marries, as long as he doesn't have it with the woman he's marrying??

How inconsistent is that?

And if anyone defiled a marriage bed, I would say it's Joshley.

[SassyPants]

27 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

Actually, we'd have to assume that, according to Smug-Jeremy, not just premarital sex but even a little kiss or a squeeze "defiles the marriage bed"--since those are forbidden by Duggar rules.

Let's think about what that implies.

• It means that God, for some strange reason of his or her own, frowns on kissing and touching before marriage, but not afterward.
• It implies that almost every married couple, gay or straight, has a "defiled" marriage, because almost every married couple engages in more than just side-hugs and hand-holding before they are married.
• It implies that almost every single marriage is sullied, corrupted, despoiled, tainted, and ruined (synonyms for "defiled," according to my online thesaurus).
• It means that all these marriages are ruined before they even begin.
• And finally, it means Jeremy is a know-it-all jerk, for claiming this kind of insight into marriage and God.

I thought per the Duggars ad nauseam message, the rules of courtship are established by the individual couple?

Jeremy said that he and Jinger are naturally affectionate (LOL- I do not think that any Duggar is naturally affectionate), and they are fast tracking the hugging and arms around each other (and the wedding so he can get the big prize).

[Carm_88]

2 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

You raise a good question. Maybe it's ok for Jeremy to have had sex with someone else before he marries, as long as he doesn't have it with the woman he's marrying??

How inconsistent is that?

And if anyone defiled a marriage bed, I would say it's Joshley.

I think it's safe to say that Joshley pooped the proverbially marriage bed.  

[MoonFace]

Just watching the show now. 

Bin irritates the hell out of me.   And now he is saying it could be twins?   Well, it could be quints.    It could be kittens.    It could be a child that can think for itself!   Anything is possible.  

 

[SassyPants]

10 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Except we know she wasnt quiet... she was SKYPING asking for prayers! I'm sure she bugged her siblings out as well!

Which means that in her greatest moment of fear, thinking she and her family might be raped, kidnapped or killed, she thought to grab her computer or cell phone for an ability to send an SOS.

A prepared, on task Duggar- not buying it.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

54 minutes ago, Analytica49 said:

I looked up this course, and noticed that it allegedly promotes "a Kingdom mindset and an eternal perspective."

When I was Joy's age, I could barely plan farther than a month ahead. (But then, I was working on a very tough undergraduate degree, and just trying to get my readings and essays completed.)

So I'm impressed that grads of this course are somehow going to be able to grasp and understand infinite time.

<snort>

 

When I was Joy's age, I was clueless in what I wanted and struggled with school and everything, I should have been at home working and taking a class or two until I got my shit together. My son IS Joy's age, he'll be 19 in a month and is so much like me so I discouraged him from going off to school right now because I don't want him to waste $5k on classes he may not need nor does he want to take. He's taking 2 classes at the local community college and working part time, since those classes are from 2 to 5 M - Th. He's going to take 2 or 3 classes next semester and figure out at the end if he's going to go full time at school or work and take night classes.   Now if I thought there would be a snowballs chance in hell of Joy getting to do what my son is I'd be OK with it, but it makes me sad knowing that she is destined to bible classes and motherhood and nothing else. 

[HereticHick]

Whatever happened to Duggars shilling for College Plus?  They seem to have dropped that entirely.

[Buzzard]

11 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

Which means that in her greatest moment of fear, thinking she and her family might be raped, kidnapped or killed, she thought to grab her computer or cell phone for an ability to send an SOS.

A prepared, on task Duggar- not buying it.

An SOS a thousand miles away... thats just odd. WHat happened to the armed guards?

[Flossie]

30 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

Except we know she wasnt quiet... she was SKYPING asking for prayers! I'm sure she bugged her siblings out as well!

Sorry, I can't watch, I can only read about the show online.  I missed the part about her skyping while hiding in the bathroom.

Now I wonder, when Derick said they should hide out in the safe room/bathroom, who grabbed the baby?  Maybe he was holding Izzy at the time, leaving Jill free to grab the computer.  But if you think someone might be breaking into your home, why call your family in another country?  I guess they could have called the local authorities and then Jill called her family.  What's involved in skyping?  Do you have to call up a site, log in, type in a phone number or choose one from a drop down list?  That seems like a lot to do when you're freaking out while huddled in a bathroom because you think that there might be intruders trying to get in your home.  I guess it's a good thing this happened when the electricity was on.

[HereticHick]

24 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

An SOS a thousand miles away... thats just odd. WHat happened to the armed guards?

Good call, Buzzard!! This story doesn't add up.

 

[imokit]

Ultrasounds are not unneccessary, especially the anamally scan.

There are plenty of things which can happen to babies born to mother's of any age.  Some are life limiting, but other we can do stuff about, if we know in advance.

A heart problem for example, can be diagnosed at a normal ultrasound, then further investigated with more ultrasounds by the foetal medicine people.  Then when the baby comes people know what to expect.  Some may need to be started on medication at birth while waiting to grow for surgery (depending on the condition - some get operations instantly, some don't need any, some need one in the future and others are incompatable with life).  That's much better than your baby getting symptoms and then having to start from the beggining, and it may be too late for certain medication to be started.

Kidney problems and urinary problems likewise can be diagnosed on ultrasound, some babies may need to be started on medication while straight away.

Some problems can be treated in utero.

Even at a basic level - knowing where the placenta is - a low placenta is a very quick way of killing mum and baby if she goes into labour.  Its not related to maternal age.

 

I get the fundy argument - they're prolife and won't abort, so they don't need scans.  But what about the stuff which we can treat if we know about, but can do damage if we don't know about.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

47 minutes ago, Buzzard said:

An SOS a thousand miles away... thats just odd. WHat happened to the armed guards?

Um HELLO Jesus was just a phone call away via NWA.  I guess she isn't holy enough yet to have a direct line. 

[MayMay1123]

my granddaughter had vesicoureteral reflux, discovered during a routine ultrasound. she was started on meds on her first day of life. if it wasn't for that ultrasound, we wouldn't have known there was a problem until it might have possibly been too late to save her from damage to her kidneys. i have a friend who's two daughters had a heart defect that wasn't discovered, there are now tests for it. Amie died at three weeks old, Elizabeth died during birth. my great grandmother died in childbirth, her 5th child died with in days of her. there are absolutely reasons to have medical care! i can't imagine just leaving it up to God...God gave us doctors and medicine for a reason...

[2manyKidzzz]

Hard to know why Jessa doesn't use good prenatal options for medical care. I guess when you are young you think you are invincible, but she already had a real problem delivering Spurgeon. So strange. 

[Lurky]

27 minutes ago, imokit said:

A heart problem for example, can be diagnosed at a normal ultrasound, then further investigated with more ultrasounds by the foetal medicine people.  Then when the baby comes people know what to expect.  Some may need to be started on medication at birth while waiting to grow for surgery (depending on the condition - some get operations instantly, some don't need any, some need one in the future and others are incompatable with life).  That's much better than your baby getting symptoms and then having to start from the beggining, and it may be too late for certain medication to be started.

This exact thing happened to my neighbours - because of their pre-natal care, they found out there were issues with the development on their second son's heart.   He had some kind of procedure while still in the womb, and then had to be born in a hospital with a paediatric heart specialist on hand, so he was rushed into surgery for another operation (and has had 1 or 2 more since).  All went well, thank goodness, but wow, that was a stressful pregnancy/birth.  And she was young and healthy, with a completely "normal" first pregnancy.

There are still women and babies in their thousands all over the world because of completely treatable conditions.  I would understand if cash was a problem, but this is not the case with the Duggars.  It makes me so angry that they won't even have the most routine care.

I could understand if it was a black-and-white issue of, eg, not wanting a test for Downs Syndrome, because they are sure they would have the baby regardless (though as someone said upthread, surely it would be better to learn as much about the condition as possible, before the birth), but pre-natal care is about so, so much more than that.

From a biblical perspective, isn't not using all the available resources a bit like the Parable of the Talents?  I can't even begin to imagine how people could believe in a God that would want people to eschew basic medical care (and in my neighbours' case, have their baby die of a serious, but treatable condition) to demonstrate that they trust him.

Bottom line: people who decide to ignore modern medicine seem to me to have no knowledge of history at all. 

[SassyPants]

In terms of Jessa and Ben- Jessa clearly knows the day that she conceived as evidenced by her "we're 100 days pregnant, today" comment.  So, if she knows when to get PG she can also figure when NOT to get pregnant and after 2-3 kids, start having sex when she's most likely NOT to get PG. I can see this happening with Jessa down the road, for the exact reasons that others have stated: she's bossy,short tempered, vain (body, clothing, hair) and likes her space. I do not see she and Ben having a large family. Same goes for Jinger.

And isn't it telling that Jana, the daughter who had to be the second mother for decades...and she is neither married nor a parent.

Next in line Jill, only has one kid and appears to struggle with that responsibility.

Another thing that leaves me scratching my head is how easily the ignorant and uneducated (DUGGARS) can convince the experienced(some) and educated (all) SILs that the Duggar magical thinking can and does work for all, YET, the educated and experienced husbands can show and convince the uneducated and ignorant,  NOTHING? Why is that?

Is it because everyone wants to take the easy way out?

Why would Derick throw away a decent job to live the insecure life that he has chosen? I wonder if the TLC gig had been gone BEFORE he quit WM, if he would have made the same decisions? It's not like he was tired and worn out when he quit, as he had barely worked for a year and had one NB baby- 

[sunshine]

So we have not heard that Jeremy actually asked Jinger's hand in marriage, or was the ring shopping the asking?

[justmy2cents]

8 minutes ago, sunshine said:

So we have not heard that Jeremy actually asked Jinger's hand in marriage, or was the ring shopping the asking?

He actually got down on one knee and asked her, and she said 'yes'!  It happened on a NYC rooftop which they showed on the show 2 weeks ago.

[MarblesMom]

@sunshine they showed the proposal last week, and rehashed it again this week.  Unless I dreamed it...

[Bad Wolf]

Just finished watching. TLC really outdid themselves this time. It was even more boring than the ones before. Except when Scot asked Derjil if they were trying to get pregnant. I snorted my tea. In other words, are you having sex on a regular basis? And the surprise guest?  

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, Bad Wolf said:

Just finished watching. TLC really outdid themselves this time. It was even more boring than the ones before. Except when Scot asked Derjil if they were trying to get pregnant. I snorted my tea. In other words, are you having sex on a regular basis? And the surprise guest?  

They really did outdo themselves with the surprise guest. I was so shocked.  

[buggers]

I know we've moved on, but I'm still seriously horrified and grossly fascinated about the marriage application. I need to know the details. Is it given to the boys before they ask to court or before they ask to "get to know each other"? How the hell did Bin pass the financial section? Are girls who are interested in a Duggar boy given an application? The thought of Jim Boob sitting in front of the computer writing up a fifty page application to marry his daughters off is frightening to me. 

[sansan]

6 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Say it. I doubt it will be the most offensive thing I've read on FJ. 

 

Jeremy calling her simple rubs me the wrong way. Just like how he complimented her on being "meek." in the past. He sounds like he wants a submissive sex toy, tbh. 

One of the definitions of SIMPLE is as follows, Not pretentious, guileful, or deceitful;

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

26 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

He actually got down on one knee and asked her, and she said 'yes'!  It happened on a NYC rooftop which they showed on the show 2 weeks ago.

I think she might be saying we didn't see Jer ask Boob for Jinger's hand prior to being allowed to ask Jing.

[Buzzard]

3 minutes ago, buggers said:

I know we've moved on, but I'm still seriously horrified and grossly fascinated about the marriage application. I need to know the details. Is it given to the boys before they ask to court or before they ask to "get to know each other"? How the hell did Bin pass the financial section? Are girls who are interested in a Duggar boy given an application? The thought of Jim Boob sitting in front of the computer writing up a fifty page application to marry his daughters off is frightening to me. 

Question 2424231 -- Do you have any means of supporting my daughter financially?  ___ Yes  __X___ No

Question 2424232 - If the answer to the above is "No," are you willing to accept the leadership of JIm Bob Duggar in exchange for financial support  __X__ Yes  ____No