Lourdes & Nolan Manteufel - Doug Phillips lawsuit - Part 2

[hoipolloi]

Stacy at Your Sacred Calling: “A man who taught well on the importance of Titus 2 has proved himself to be a hypocrite. He has caused our enemies to rejoice and God’s Word to be blasphemed; yet, to reject all that he taught will cause God’s Word to be grossly misrepresented further. The truth is true in spite of the hypocrite, not because of him… So, beware of self-appointed ‘doctrine protectors.’ Any website, blog, or Facebook page that exists for the sole purpose of tearing down other ministries, or discussing, ad nauseam, the sins of someone else has major pride issues.â€

yoursacredcalling.com/blog/2014/05/blasphemed-or-hallowed-be-his-name/

Re: bolded. That's probably aimed at SSB or the Wartburg Watch, especially since the drubbing Stacy & Kelly Two Breasts Crawford recently received at SSB when they tried to rebuke the "doctrine protectors."

[Palimpsest]

Re: bolded. That's probably aimed at SSB or the Wartburg Watch, especially since the drubbing Stacy & Kelly Two Breasts Crawford recently received at SSB when they tried to rebuke the "doctrine protectors."

I think you are correct -- it was a direct shot at SSB and WW and not meant for FJ satan spawn. They don't want to admit to reading FJ!

BTW, to the second bolded, I really enjoyed the drubbing of Stacy and Kelly on SSB. It was a joy to read and I highly recommend it. :cracking-up:

[Arete]

Sour grapes from sister Stacy.

[jjmennonite]

I think you are correct -- it was a direct shot at SSB and WW and not meant for FJ satan spawn. They don't want to admit to reading FJ!

BTW, to the second bolded, I really enjoyed the drubbing of Stacy and Kelly on SSB. It was a joy to read and I highly recommend it. :cracking-up:

Link please. TIA

[16strong]

I think you are correct -- it was a direct shot at SSB and WW and not meant for FJ satan spawn. They don't want to admit to reading FJ!

BTW, to the second bolded, I really enjoyed the drubbing of Stacy and Kelly on SSB. It was a joy to read and I highly recommend it. :cracking-up:

True that. I am always amazed, though, at how many fundies act like we don't exist, but yet they clearly read us. Isn't that a violation of their rules on godliness/cleanliness? It's not like we have filters here. I can say shit, fuck, and goddamn with the mods' blessing at leisure. Of course everyone would prefer that I didn't stack a wall of curse words every post, but... :lol:

I guess my point is, Steve Maxwell is very clearly defiling himself by reading FJ. Prayer closet, Steve. :nenner:

[socuteyoullpuke]

I do wonder what would have happened if Doug hadn't abused Lourdes. I can't help thinking that if Nolan and Lourdes had been free to marry five years ago they would probably be raising a family on VF koolaid by now. I'm glad they're not.

Interesting idea, but I'm pretty confident that in such a case it would have been some other woman being abused.

[Letgo]

My goodness, I just caught up with Nolan's FB postings. He is really going after Doug. VF, and NCFIC. What changed his mind about his former church and Doug so completely? Was it solely what happened to Lourdes? Or were other incidents/people involved? He has done an about face on his beliefs about VF and NCFIC teachings.

[MerryHappy]

Nolan Manteufel: Lourdes and i grew up in a cult that kept the girls incredibly naive about the male sex drive. i'm having fun showing Lourdes how men really think. See guys, some CULT DEPROGRAMMING can be fun!

Everything about this quote rubs me the wrong way. The implied chest thumping over Lourdes' sexual experience is distasteful, in my never humble opinion. I dunno how to articulate it. The closest I can get to how I feel is that I find myself hoping that Lourdes will be able to retain control over her sexual experiences, including what is shared about what she does. Maybe I am jumping the gun with the quote. Maybe she approved of what he said...I don't know.

That said, I would remind Nolan that it was not just the girls that were kept naive about the male and female sex drive but the menfolk as well. Purity teachings harm males as much as females-it just manifests differently.

[lilith]

Interesting idea, but I'm pretty confident that in such a case it would have been some other woman being abused.

Yes. I'm sure Doug would have tooled around with someone eventually.

The point I'm trying to make is that Lourdes has (understandably) turned against VF teachings because the head of VF abused her, and she realised that his behaviour was abusive. Before that she was a wholehearted VF supporter, even appearing in multiple pieces of VF propaganda.

Nolan, likewise, seemed to support VF teachings, reacting violently against them only when he realised the woman he loved had been sexually abused by Doug.

I'm glad they have rejected the teachings, I just suspect that if it wasn't for Doug targeting Lourdes they would have married in the usual VF intern/glowing SAHD virgin ceremony, officiated by Dougie, and be raising the next generation of godly arrows to take dominion over America.

[Hane]

In breaking news: Nolan is on a roll, with a series of FB posts on how to disassociate oneself from a cult. In one post, he gives a shout-out to freejinger.org.

Nolan, if you're visiting, way to rock!

[WonderingInWA]

In breaking news: Nolan is on a roll, with a series of FB posts on how to disassociate oneself from a cult. In one post, he gives a shout-out to freejinger.org.

Nolan, if you're visiting, way to rock!

He it totally rocking his FB page -- I love it! He is clever and probably making a few men itch a bit. Which is a good thing.

He's also posted a couple of really beautiful photos of them together, I am assuming on their honeymoon. They are a lovely couple.

[erkinai]

I can't believe there are still people posting things on the FB page to support Lourdes saying things like, "It takes two to tango." This girl was literally brainwashed into a cult... I guess that they'd say that all the women who slept with David Koresh in Waco were a bunch of Skanky McSluttersons who totally begged for it? WTF even is with these people?

[nausicaa]

Everything about this quote rubs me the wrong way. The implied chest thumping over Lourdes' sexual experience is distasteful, in my never humble opinion. I dunno how to articulate it. The closest I can get to how I feel is that I find myself hoping that Lourdes will be able to retain control over her sexual experiences, including what is shared about what she does. Maybe I am jumping the gun with the quote. Maybe she approved of what he said...I don't know.

That said, I would remind Nolan that it was not just the girls that were kept naive about the male and female sex drive but the menfolk as well. Purity teachings harm males as much as females-it just manifests differently.

I have an unpopular opinion on Nolan so I've kept it to myself up to this point. But I find him very immature for his age and his facebook page grates on me. I try and remind myself that he is very angry right now and is just trying to work through all of the betrayal that he feels.

Even more unpopular opinion: the, ostensibly rushed, marriage concerns me. I worry whenever a marriage seems to happen because people are trying to escape from something. I don't know the timeline (hell, I don't know these people) but I would think both of them would have benefitted with some adult time on their own figuring themselves and their lives out before getting married. In any case, I hope I'm wrong and I do wish them the best.

[MrsFoxx]

I have an unpopular opinion on Nolan so I've kept it to myself up to this point. But I find him very immature for his age and his facebook page grates on me. I try and remind myself that he is very angry right now and is just trying to work through all of the betrayal that he feels.

Even more unpopular opinion: the, ostensibly rushed, marriage concerns me. I worry whenever a marriage seems to happen because people are trying to escape from something. I don't know the timeline (hell, I don't know these people) but I would think both of them would have benefitted with some adult time on their own figuring themselves and their lives out before getting married. In any case, I hope I'm wrong and I do wish them the best.

Remember that cults like BCA often result in immature adults all around. I'm praying that Lourdes and Nolan are able to grow up together and that their marriage is able to grow them into similar directions. I have been thinking that his FB implies that their life centers around this terrible situation and the lawsuit, and the only way they will be able to make the long-term work is if they are behind the scenes focusing on many other things, other interests.

I'm remembering that just because this is what we can see doesn't mean this is the all-consuming focus of their life. At least that's what I'm hoping. Otherwise, when this is over, they will be left just with a bitter taste and nothing to focus on.

On the other hand - these are people who have known each other for years, since they were much younger. Just because the marriage was a surprise to FJ doesn't mean that it was a surprise to them.

[thoughtful]

I often find myself in the middle when people are passionately on one side or another about an issue, or about other people. This is one of those times. I suspect I'm not alone.

The intensity of their relationship, some of the things he says, and how much of the public side they show being all about fighting Doug, has made me think "hmmmm . . . is this really all so wonderful?"

But I don't know what else to say or think about it, not knowing what their everyday life together is like.

Considering what they've been through being raised in that world, and what she's been through with that piece of shit Doug (OK, about him I have a passionate opinion!), it makes sense that their emotions would be running high -- enraged at Doug and his defenders, giddy at being out of it and together, etc.

And I think there are aspects of how unprepared they seem for a mature life that is part of how they were brought up, so I tend to be more sympathetic about those things than critical - doesn't mean I'd love to hang out with them and chat.

Being intense, having a rescue element to a relationship (or some other "theme," for want of a way to put it - intense interest in a work or leisure activity, for example), and being overly focused on only a few aspects of life is not unusual in newlyweds - they are hardly the first for that. Some go on to develop and grow together, some find out there is nothing else once those intense things are done with, and part.

I do hope, for their sakes, that there is more to their bond, that they will mature and calm down and have a life based on more than her rescue and the joy of a new relationship. But there's no way to know that now, especially from our perspective as outsiders.

And, whatever happens, I tend to think it's a damn sight better than still being caught up in VF.

[Bethie42]

Everything about this quote rubs me the wrong way. The implied chest thumping over Lourdes' sexual experience is distasteful, in my never humble opinion. I dunno how to articulate it. The closest I can get to how I feel is that I find myself hoping that Lourdes will be able to retain control over her sexual experiences, including what is shared about what she does. Maybe I am jumping the gun with the quote. Maybe she approved of what he said...I don't know.

That said, I would remind Nolan that it was not just the girls that were kept naive about the male and female sex drive but the menfolk as well. Purity teachings harm males as much as females-it just manifests differently.

The quote from Nolan confused me a little, honestly. Weren't the VF folks taught that men were essentially ravening wolves eager for sex at any opportunity? I was peripherally involved with VF teachings, and while I don't think I remember that explicit teaching, the assumption goes hand-in-hand with most fundie teachings about sex, modesty and the like. So is Nolan saying that VF girls didn't know that 'all men want is sex'? If so, I find it interesting. It's a rather offensive part of most evangelical purity culture and it seems strange that VF wouldn't believe the same. And yes, I agree, the quote rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully the same can not be said for Lourdes :)

[16strong]

Thoughtful, I agree. I haven't wanted to say anything, because I don't want to hurt anyone, but yes. While I support Nolan and Lourdes 100% in her lawsuit and their future together, I find myself wondering how he can be so vocal about Doug and Co., while Lourdes stays silent.

I understand if she does not want to be in the public eye and attract attention after everything that has happened, but I feel Nolan is doing that for her anyway, whether she likes it or not. I am concerned that she is not being given a voice in all of this, and feels like she has to go along with everything Nolan says and does. Nolan's words are awfully vitriolic, and while I agree that Doug and Co. are not nice people and need to be taken down, I also think that the way one speaks of others publicly and the degree and frequency in which those things are said says a lot about a person.

I would be more okay if Nolan started a Facebook group/page or a blog to say these things, but something about the fact that he's using his own personal page rubs me the wrong way. Your personal page should be for kind words between friends and family only, I think. Not shoving your beliefs (whether good or bad) down others' throats. I agree with his words fully, but I would get awfully tired of seeing his rants 10x a day in my news feed. It reeks of preaching to the choir.

I guess what I am saying is that I think there are better and more effective ways to go about achieving what he is trying to do. Anyways, my last intent is to hurt anyone involved (I apologize sincerely from the heart if I have), I am merely voicing my own personal opinion.

[MerryHappy]

The quote from Nolan confused me a little, honestly. Weren't the VF folks taught that men were essentially ravening wolves eager for sex at any opportunity? I was peripherally involved with VF teachings, and while I don't think I remember that explicit teaching, the assumption goes hand-in-hand with most fundie teachings about sex, modesty and the like. So is Nolan saying that VF girls didn't know that 'all men want is sex'? If so, I find it interesting. It's a rather offensive part of most evangelical purity culture and it seems strange that VF wouldn't believe the same. And yes, I agree, the quote rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully the same can not be said for Lourdes :)

That crossed my mind, too.

The males I have come across after leaving ATIA retained a similar cognitive dissidence(?) for a while. I do agree that it might be a lack of maturity/life experience that makes these men forget that we were taught that they simply can not control themselves. That they are lust filled animals that needed others to cage their everyday struggle with raping others.

I am curious to see where the pendulum comes to rest when the law suit is over and life seeks out a more normal, peaceful state for their marriage.

I wish Lourdes nothing but the best and I do believe that Nolan is stretching his wings after tasting freedom. I do not begrudge him that. I would gently ask him to remember that his wife's past, present, and future story is hers to share as she wishes, as she is ready...not when he feels like the world needs reminding that he is having sex.

[tropaka]

I think Lourdes is letting Nolan rant as he wishes because her lawyer's probably told her not to say anything herself (i.e. don't give DPIAT any ammo whatsoever while the lawsuit's still on the table.

[16strong]

I think Lourdes is letting Nolan rant as he wishes because her lawyer's probably told her not to say anything herself (i.e. don't give DPIAT any ammo whatsoever while the lawsuit's still on the table.

I hadn't thought of that, but it makes a lot of sense- thank you. :)

[MerryHappy]

I think Lourdes is letting Nolan rant as he wishes because her lawyer's probably told her not to say anything herself (i.e. don't give DPIAT any ammo whatsoever while the lawsuit's still on the table.

You would think Nolan would reign it in too then.

[MamaJunebug]

Dang me and my Lutheran education - we are taught "to put the best construction on everything" - but I read Nolan's sexay times post as saying, "I'm showing my wife we are NOT raving loony beasts, her previous experience with a raving loony beast to the contrary, but that I - and most other men of substance - can be tender, romantic, and intent upon mutual pleasure."

That's just me, though. And I'm known to be a romantic optimist to my own peril, some times. :shifty-kitty:

[MerryHappy]

I'm an X-fundie kid reminding a guy who's wife is facing a terribly difficult law suit that he needs to chill. If I read his words and find something questionable in them, how much more will DP's attorneys? Once he posts stuff to the net, it is not going to go away.

I would just ask him to think about that before he chest thumps some more. His wife deserves more than that shit.

[ILoveJellybeans]

The quote from Nolan confused me a little, honestly. Weren't the VF folks taught that men were essentially ravening wolves eager for sex at any opportunity? I was peripherally involved with VF teachings, and while I don't think I remember that explicit teaching, the assumption goes hand-in-hand with most fundie teachings about sex, modesty and the like. So is Nolan saying that VF girls didn't know that 'all men want is sex'? If so, I find it interesting. It's a rather offensive part of most evangelical purity culture and it seems strange that VF wouldn't believe the same. And yes, I agree, the quote rubs me the wrong way. Hopefully the same can not be said for Lourdes :)

I thought maybe it meant the opposite-fundie girls were taught that all men wanted was sex and that they all had the potential to rape if they so much as saw a knee, but he is teaching her about how men can be respectful to women's feelings.

Or that fundie girls are taught that they will hate sex because men want it all the time and care nothing about making sure they are having a good time, and is saying that he knows how to please a woman.

Either way, TMI! Im glad they are able to enjoy their sex life because it isn't easy when all of your previous experiences were non consensual, but we really didn't need to know that.

[Howl]

Everything about this quote rubs me the wrong way. The implied chest thumping over Lourdes' sexual experience is distasteful, in my never humble opinion. I dunno how to articulate it. The closest I can get to how I feel is that I find myself hoping that Lourdes will be able to retain control over her sexual experiences, including what is shared about what she does. Maybe I am jumping the gun with the quote. Maybe she approved of what he said...I don't know.

That said, I would remind Nolan that it was not just the girls that were kept naive about the male and female sex drive but the menfolk as well. Purity teachings harm males as much as females-it just manifests differently.

ditto that it came across in a very inappropriate "creepy TMI" macho way to me (identifying myself as a senior citizen for the first time ever in public). Ah, well, the young + social media = :o

Breaking free from a controlling environment and calling people out is quite the heady experience at that age but, yes, Nolan, in your new status as a married person, best to be very discreet about your sex life as a way to demonstrate appropriate boundaries and respect for your new wife.

Edit: after reading many of the thoughtful posts, I'm also reminded that Lourdes was (is) going to counseling and I hope they are receiving some type of secular counseling together.