Lourdes & Nolan Manteufel - Doug Phillips lawsuit - Part 2

[Maxwell]

Please don't answer this one, CnD. It's up to Nolan to satisfy my curiosity on this issue -- or not, if he doesn't want to, and that's OK! It's his personal family business.

One of the things I notice in all of this is -- where is Dad Manteufel? The Headship is remarkably absent here. I'm assuming that means Nolan's mother is a widow/divorced, making Nolan the titular Head of the Family per BCA standards, if he is the only son. We've seen mention of sisters but not other brothers.

In some ways, if Nolan is the only son, that makes the estrangement from his mother sadder. I still cringe a little when I remember the scorching Facebook post when he tells her than she will never see her grandchildren if she doesn't change her mind about Doug/BCA. However justified he was (and is) in saying that, it had to have hurt his mother.

Of course, Nolan's dad may still be around, in or out of the cult, but just isn't mentioned. That's just a bit odd.

Don't know about Dad, but he's got brothers...

facebook.com/nolan.manteufel/posts/665160020198171?comment_id=665253856855454&offset=0&total_comments=47

[Palimpsest]

I hadn't seen that. Good for him. :clap:

Merryhappy, Nolan has answered you directly on Facebook now. You may not like it.

However, I sort of see what he is saying. Nolan shoots from the hip! He isn't always that good with words or at all tactful. I rather like that, personally, but he is very in your face. :D

My translation of what I *think* he's saying:

1. Yes, transparency/speaking his mind is of vital importance to him at the moment, the hell with the case.

2. You upset and insulted him (and so did the rest of us who winced) by reading a whole lot into his "offensive statement" that he really didn't mean. We took it wrong.

Eh, Nolan is an adult and can take some push back. I think he knows what he is doing and truly wish him and Lourdes well.

[Palimpsest]

Don't know about Dad, but he's got brothers...

facebook.com/nolan.manteufel/posts/665160020198171?comment_id=665253856855454&offset=0&total_comments=47

Thanks, Maxwell. I'm glad Nolan has brothers. And, Duh! to me. I saw that picture yesterday but somehow blanked on it!

[MerryHappy]

Merryhappy, Nolan has answered you directly on Facebook now. You may not like it.

However, I sort of see what he is saying. Nolan shoots from the hip! He isn't always that good with words or at all tactful. I rather like that, personally, but he is very in your face. :D

My translation of what I *think* he's saying:

1. Yes, transparency/speaking his mind is of vital importance to him at the moment, the hell with the case.

2. You upset and insulted him (and so did the rest of us who winced) by reading a whole lot into his "offensive statement" that he really didn't mean. We took it wrong.

Eh, Nolan is an adult and can take some push back. I think he knows what he is doing and truly wish him and Lourdes well.

I just saw that. What a shame. I was hoping for a more mature response from him instead of the fundie man-child speak. :doh:

"I want to know if he feels that his transparency is worth potentially injuring his wife's chance at justice." -- MerryHappy on FreeJinger.org

@ MerryHappy - Yes, i feel transparency is worthy of injuring my wife's chance at convicting Doug Phillips in a court of law. Duh.

On 22 Feb 2014 Beall Phillips called my mother to tell her to tell me to stop posting things on Facebook.

"Honestly, that quote about schooling Lourdes in sex wasn't transparency as much as stroking his own ego." -- MerryHappy on FreeJinger.org

@ MerryHappy - Do YOU realize how serious an accusation YOU are making against a young man's character?

NOLAN'S OFFENSIVE COMMENT

"Lourdes and i grew up in a cult that kept the girls incredibly naive about the male sex drive. i'm having fun showing Lourdes how men really think. See guys, some CULT DEPROGRAMMING can be fun!"

1. You are not convicting Doug Phillips in a court of law by ranting on FB. You are acting out like a man-child. Grow up.

2. Yes, I do understand the observations I am making. Do they make you uncomfortable?

3. I don't give two shits who called your mother. I am dealing with you directly. I don't need to beat around the bush here. Clearly you are okay with that.

You are not dealing with just fundies now. I see through the bullshit chest thumping, as did others here. Knock that shit off before it costs you guys in the long road.

Also, get over yourself.

[Palimpsest]

^^^^

@ MerryHappy.

Well, that certainly told him! :D

I'm really not inclined to be so tough on Nolan. However, I am cognizant that my opinion of him as a very hurt and angry young man still in recovery from the cult, and who knows no better, could probably be taken as very condescending. He really does remind me of my well-meaning but open-mouth-and-insert-foot twenty something nephew! There are times I want to kick that young man in the rear too.

It will be good for Nolan to get some pushback from the larger world. A learning experience for him and good prep if the case ever goes to trial. And, as I said, he's a grown man.

I'm just going to sit back and let the fur fly!

[Elinor]

My computer was apparently so horrified at the thought of this image that it spontaneously shut my browser down (crashed it) with no warning. Weird.

Anyway, once I got my browser back up and was able to look at the picture, I'm interested in what the picture with Doug and the 4 girls was taken to depict. I realize they did their version of LARPing pretty often, but the young women all look to be about the same age, but based on the way they are dressed, I'm guessing there is some specific thing going on. Lourdes is dressed much nicer than the other young ladies so to an uninformed observer, I take that to mean that she is the spouse or perhaps "intended" of Doughie (it's staying lol). While the others look like they are dressed more like "commoners" or maybe "the help" or something like that.

Does anyone know what the actual intent of the photo was?

Lourdes is portraying Rebecca Rolfe (Pocahontas). That is why she is in European dress.

[MerryHappy]

^^^^

@ MerryHappy.

Well, that certainly told him! :D

I'm really not inclined to be so tough on Nolan. However, I am cognizant that my opinion of him as a very hurt and angry young man still in recovery from the cult, and who knows no better, could probably be taken as very condescending. He really does remind me of my well-meaning but open-mouth-and-insert-foot twenty something nephew! There are times I want to kick that young man in the rear too.

It will be good for Nolan to get some pushback from the larger world. A learning experience for him and good prep if the case ever goes to trial. And, as I said, he's a grown man.

I'm just going to sit back and let the fur fly!

I think he is in a bad spot and is behaving as such. Surely he will not be this delicate on the stand, should it come to that.

And yes, he reminds me a lot of some of my younger brothers. Hopefully this phase will pass soon. :pray:

[Maxwell]

I just saw that. What a shame. I was hoping for a more mature response from him instead of the fundie man-child speak. :doh:

1. You are not convicting Doug Phillips in a court of law by ranting on FB. You are acting out like a man-child. Grow up.

2. Yes, I do understand the observations I am making. Do they make you uncomfortable?

3. I don't give two shits who called your mother. I am dealing with you directly. I don't need to beat around the bush here. Clearly you are okay with that.

You are not dealing with just fundies now. I see through the bullshit chest thumping, as did others here. Knock that shit off before it costs you guys in the long road.

Also, get over yourself.

Maybe too much is being read into that quote. Nolan didn't say he was "schooling Lourdes in sex", he said he was, "showing Lourdes how men really think." It's not just the Fundies that think that all man think about is sex... well, it *is* what we think about 80% of the time, but it's not ALL we think about... and our sexual thoughts are not all about what kind of perverted thing we can get away with. I'm willing to bet that what Nolan thinks and what Lourdes *thinks* he thinks are two vastly different things. Heck, I've been married 20+ years and my wife *still* has misconceptions of the male thought process (and the male sex drive) that were drilled into her by her mother! And yes, sometimes it can be fun destroying those misconceptions -- other times it can be down-right frustrating. While that quote may seem like chest thumping, it may just be a plain statement of reality coupled with the fact that getting to know someone is fun (and doubly so when sex is involved :) ).

[MerryHappy]

Nolan has had plenty of opportunity to correct the impression he gave with his comment. He chose not to.

In fact, he has taken it a step further to let us know that his right to transparency does, in fact, trump his wife's chance at justice.

I think I deciphered his comment just fine.

[formergothardite]

I just saw that. What a shame. I was hoping for a more mature response from him instead of the fundie man-child speak. :doh:

1. You are not convicting Doug Phillips in a court of law by ranting on FB. You are acting out like a man-child. Grow up.

2. Yes, I do understand the observations I am making. Do they make you uncomfortable?

3. I don't give two shits who called your mother. I am dealing with you directly. I don't need to beat around the bush here. Clearly you are okay with that.

You are not dealing with just fundies now. I see through the bullshit chest thumping, as did others here. Knock that shit off before it costs you guys in the long road.

Also, get over yourself.

Oh noes!!! My eyes could not roll hard enough. It does sound like bragging and oversharing. But I really don't understand people who share all the intimate details of their lives on the internet using their real names. I would die before I let my friends and family read about my husband teaching me anything about sex.

[LeatherCouch]

Oh noes!!! My eyes could not roll hard enough. It does sound like bragging and oversharing. But I really don't understand people who share all the intimate details of their lives on the internet using their real names. I would die before I let my friends and family read about my husband teaching me anything about sex.

Anything but a young man's character! :roll: Welcome to the real world Nolan ;)

[CloakNDagger]

<>

But in general I agree with the concerns.

[Eponine]

^^^^

@ MerryHappy.

Well, that certainly told him! :D

I'm really not inclined to be so tough on Nolan. However, I am cognizant that my opinion of him as a very hurt and angry young man still in recovery from the cult, and who knows no better, could probably be taken as very condescending. He really does remind me of my well-meaning but open-mouth-and-insert-foot twenty something nephew! There are times I want to kick that young man in the rear too.

It will be good for Nolan to get some pushback from the larger world. A learning experience for him and good prep if the case ever goes to trial. And, as I said, he's a grown man.

I'm just going to sit back and let the fur fly!

This is exactly how I feel. He still has a LOT of deprogramming to do, including just the general misogyny of society once he gets past the VF-specific stuff. I'm also hoping Lourdes is doing some "schooling" of her own given the women-have-no-sex-drive mythology that fundies like to spin. Neither of them had a typical adolescence where they would have gotten this phase out of the way, so I think it's sort of a natural impulse for someone just finding their freedom as an adult.

[MerryHappy]

<>

But in general I agree with the concerns.

So he is attacking me in the same manner that his wife's abuser attacked him? That doesn't seem overly healthy.

Or am I misreading what you are saying?

[formergothardite]

One of the things that bothers me about what he wrote is that he says that they were raised in a cult that kept women naïve about men's sex drive. He leaves out that this very cult kept guys naïve about women's sex drive and women's sexuality in general. They should be learning together that all that they have been taught about sexuality is wrong. That remark shouldn't have been one sided because he should be learning from Lourdes how women really think.

[MrsFoxx]

Not all truth has to be contained in every Facebook post. What he says is true, about the way they were raised. That doesn't mean that he doesn't beleive the corresponding truth about women.

Also, he's a grown up. Much as we want DPIAT (which my autocorrect recognizes haha) nailed to the wall in this lawsuit, Lourdes has the right to Get whatever she wants out of it, whether that's a monetary reward or just awareness and the chance for her voice to be heard.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are in the kind of relationship we pray they are, where they have discussed their boundaries as a couple including on social media.

In short, let's remember who the enemy is. Hint: it's not Lourdes and Nolan.

[Anise]

In my opinion, FJ is too accustomed to the mature analysis and critique of ex-fundies who have had years to process, many of whom kept silent for years because they were trying to maintain relationships or peace with those still inside. Nolan seems to have lost those relationships already and has no good reason to be tactful in his anger. It should be no surprise that he is busy calling people out right and left. He is taking on his VF dominated world, so I am guessing that he has no reservations on taking on the whole world, including any unsupportive allies.

[Phoebe]

I hope he gets a job working for a hard-ass woman.

Preferably one younger than he is, just to make it rankle that much more.

[FundieWatcher]

Not all truth has to be contained in every Facebook post. What he says is true, about the way they were raised. That doesn't mean that he doesn't beleive the corresponding truth about women.

Also, he's a grown up. Much as we want DPIAT (which my autocorrect recognizes haha) nailed to the wall in this lawsuit, Lourdes has the right to Get whatever she wants out of it, whether that's a monetary reward or just awareness and the chance for her voice to be heard.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they are in the kind of relationship we pray they are, where they have discussed their boundaries as a couple including on social media.

In short, let's remember who the enemy is. Hint: it's not Lourdes and Nolan.

Agreed.

I think I'm done keeping up with this drama. I'm scared we could be doing more harm then good. When that is the opposite of what is needed. Nolan and Lourdes don't need more people telling them what to think.

[Arete]

I'll change the subject.

Julie Anne on SSB just spanked Sister Stacy and Kelly Two Breast again. Let us rejoice and be glad. :mrgreen:

[bunny]

I don't think Nolan's comment was anything but a lighthearted dig against their past. I'm frankly surprised people here took that much umbrage against it. Eh, whatever.

[MerryHappy]

@ CND on Free Jinger.

SHUT THE FUCK UP.

@ MerryHappy on Free Jinger.

I mindfucked you.

Your response, and the response of your forum, is interesting to me. This entire interchange is being studied.

Knowledge is power. If i know more about Psychological Manipulation than you, a power gradient exists. If i am a wicked person, i may exploit this psychological power gradient to enable sin.

You sure did. :roll:

Lourdes, I've attempted to speak to Nolan and he opts not to listen so I will speak to you instead.

What you are seeing here are red flags in a relationship.

What Nolan is doing- the claims that his right to transparency trumps justice for you-red flags.

This idiotic attempt at manipulation-red flag.

I figure you will blow me off now but I am warning you here-what is going down here with your husband is not cool. This is not behavior that protects your interests as his wife but only serve to give an audience to his hissy fit.

You have been wronged. You deserve your day in court. You deserve justice. You deserve people around you that want what is best for you...who want to support and encourage you in the things that you want.

It might be an unpopular opinion but I'll say it anyways. I have growing concerns with Nolan's behavior online. I found his comment about educating you and deprogramming you to be repulsive and demeaning. His assertions that his right to run off at the mouth is more important than you finding justice is disgusting. These are red flags, my friend. As one x-fundie to another-I'm giving you the heads up. Not cool.

Nolan can still turn this shit around but it will involve massive amounts of introspection on his part and what I've seen of him thus far does not inspire confidence. Attempting to "mindfuck" strangers and using your sex life as a platform to flip off DP-not cool.

Nolan seems to have forgotten that freedom of speech does not equal freedom from the consequences or fall out over what was said. This is shitty time to be learning this lesson but better late than never, I suppose.

editing to add: I will bow out now. I can see that the topic has run its course and I feel that I have addressed my concerns and do not wish to continue things further. I do wish Lourdes the best. I hope her law suit is successful and that her future is everything she wants it to be and then some. She is a brave soul. Peace.

[fuglyexfundy]

I'll change the subject.

Julie Anne on SSB just spanked Sister Stacy and Kelly Two Breast again. Let us rejoice and be glad. :mrgreen:

And the comments are really insightful too. Very promising.

Kelly is allegedly quoted as saying this according to one of the commentators: “Patriarchy is not a new concept, but one as old as the world itself. It is biblical and if you don’t like it, and you’re a Christian, perhaps a new religion would suit you better.â€

My way or the highway teaching is one of the many telltale signs of a cult. May even more people flee them.

[fuglyexfundy]

Preferably one younger than he is, just to make it rankle that much more.

I personally know of one that works in adult entertainment. Hard-ass and younger, she needs someone for marketing and organizational tasks. It would probably be the first honest work Dough's done in many years. :mrgreen:

Nah, my buddy isn't THAT desperate for help yet....

[ladyamylynn]

This has the potential to get real ugly, real fast. Not sure weather to duck and cover or just pop the popcorn. I'll just say this: Everything the patriarchy touches, with its attendant misogyny and abuse, has the potential to be tainted and ugly. Just because one has shaken off the chains of a cult leader does not mean that one is enlightened or even particularly open-minded. These are young people, and honestly, their emotional state is likely younger than their years just due to the extreme amount of sheltering and abuse they endured. Nolan in particular needs to start concentrating on what he believes in, instead of framing his entire outlook in opposition to DPIAT. My 2 cents in any case.