Nie Nie today and the tag "Mean People"

[velly]

I thought about this more and I think the reason it bothered me is because of who wrote it. Because she has been less than kind in the past and she doesn't seem to want to give the world the benefit of the doubt that she, herself wants.

Still, I clearly wasn't so right it is clear to everyone,

I actually thought you were right. I didn't see the comment as 'mean' at all. Maybe things could have been done better but whatever. I think the man thought he was being nice about it and his wording didn't resound as mean to me. Maybe I am insensitive but I just don't see why she's being all idiotic about it. I cannot compare my own shit to hers but I do know that I get questions all the time about certain aspects of myself (scars are the biggest) and most of the time I just think 'this person is curious, not trying to be mean' because it's the truth. I think what bothered Nie most was the man's voice but... some people are loud (my dad being one) and their voices are just like that. Maybe he didn't even realize she was a prissy that expects people to treat her with silk gloves... which to me, is much more likely than them being MEAN.

[jesssnerch]

I actually thought you were right. I didn't see the comment as 'mean' at all. Maybe things could have been done better but whatever. I think the man thought he was being nice about it and his wording didn't resound as mean to me. Maybe I am insensitive but I just don't see why she's being all idiotic about it. I cannot compare my own shit to hers but I do know that I get questions all the time about certain aspects of myself (scars are the biggest) and most of the time I just think 'this person is curious, not trying to be mean' because it's the truth. I think what bothered Nie most was the man's voice but... some people are loud (my dad being one) and their voices are just like that. Maybe he didn't even realize she was a prissy that expects people to treat her with silk gloves... which to me, is much more likely than them being MEAN.

I vote for not mean, too. The guy's heart was in the right place, I don't think he meant for her to feel bad but some people are just awkward like that.

[CanadianHippie]

I vote for not mean, too. The guy's heart was in the right place, I don't think he meant for her to feel bad but some people are just awkward like that.

Agreeing with the above. And Velly, I know what you mean about some people just being naturally loud. Indoor voices do not exist on my dad's side of the family (well they do, but the average person perceives indoor voice on my dad's side as yelling, lord knows it took me years to master the art of talking at a normal level and even still it can get away from me. And I'm shy.)

[Deleted03]

I thought about this more and I think the reason it bothered me is because of who wrote it. Because she has been less than kind in the past and she doesn't seem to want to give the world the benefit of the doubt that she, herself wants.

Still, I clearly wasn't so right it is clear to everyone,

yes in that case it was just a taste of her own medicine and she does not seem to be someone I really want to be too compassionate about... although I think therapy would be a great help if she's dependent on her husband for daily activities.

btw when everyone says her husband left her to burn, what do you mean exactly?

[CanadianHippie]

btw when everyone says her husband left her to burn, what do you mean exactly?

He was in the same plane crash, but the story keeps changing about whether he knew she was still alive and still left or thought she was dead and left, instead of trying to help.

[velly]

He was in the same plane crash, but the story keeps changing about whether he knew she was still alive and still left or thought she was dead and left, instead of trying to help.

I don't blame him for his actions, who knows how I would have reacted but I think this weighs heavy on her mind and she's made him her hero since then and latches on to him almost out of fear.

[velly]

Agreeing with the above. And Velly, I know what you mean about some people just being naturally loud. Indoor voices do not exist on my dad's side of the family (well they do, but the average person perceives indoor voice on my dad's side as yelling, lord knows it took me years to master the art of talking at a normal level and even still it can get away from me. And I'm shy.)

Ugh I have the worst voice ever, I naturally project and my bf is constantly having to remind me that I'm 'yelling' (when actually it's my natural tone!) maybe that's why I sympathize with the man too... My sister and I work together and she constantly has to tell me to 'lower my voice'.

[Katiebug]

I don't think the man was mean. He was insensitive and but from the way she describes the conversation it doesn't sound like he was purposely trying to humiliate or embarass her. We all know people who have trouble phrasing things in a tactful way.

Our toddler recently pointed to a man in a wheelchair and LOUDLY said, "Stroller man!" because to her knowledge a seat on wheels is a stroller. I could have melted into the floor because we were in Target and the man clearly could hear her and see her pointing, and I apologized as we walked past. He smiled, said hi to her, and told me not to worry about it and that he hears variations on that frequently. Young children often wonder about those who look different from them/different from what they're used to. Part of parenting is teaching our kids how to interact tactfully with those who are different from us.

I don't think that most adults would get terribly upset by a young child commenting on a visible difference, but Nie said that this was a school age child. Perhaps the child has developmental delays and has blurted out insensitive things before, so he was heading her off at the pass by being direct. Perhaps the adult has social anxiety issues or Asperger's and has difficulty picking up on social cues/norms. Or maybe he's just a rude guy who didn't realize he was being insensitive. With strangers you just don't know what the circumstances might be.

Whoever said she's like a high school "mean girl", I totally agree. She seemed so hung up on appearances and being pretty, and now she doesn't fit the classical/popular definition of "pretty" - so she strikes out against others who don't fit the societal mold of prettiness.

And as for the story about her with the dogs, I'd have been pissed off if I was the other person too. Our dog is a small beagle mix who is always walked on-leash. Few things make me more anxious than having a large, clearly uncontrolled dog come running up to us with an owner hollering "He's nice!" Um, yeah - but in a dog fight, MY dog is going to be the one injured or killed. :x If an unleashed dog doesn't respond immediately to an owner's verbal commands that means they're not well-trained enough to be off leash in a public place/around other dogs, IMO. Thankfully our city has a leash law which is reasonably well enforced, so it's an infrequent problem for us.

[mebeforee]

While I still think NieNie is overreacting, this isn't some long-skirts wearing head-covering fundie getting offended some little girl is asking about it. She was burned in a plane crash and has burn scars on her face. Someone who is burned does not deliberately choose to go out in public that way, they have no choice.

Ah, I misunderstood. She is not one of the bloggers I'm familiar with, so I made an assumption and now look like an ass. In that case, the man was definitely tactless, though I still doubt he was trying to be mean to her.

[velly]

I don't think the man was mean. He was insensitive and but from the way she describes the conversation it doesn't sound like he was purposely trying to humiliate or embarass her. We all know people who have trouble phrasing things in a tactful way.

I am still having a hard time seeing how he was 'insensitive' though. Would it had been better not to ask her to talk directly and have her be able to hear the child and father discussing her? I think he was sensitive and his words weren't in any way aimed at trying to make her feel bad.

She posted about it today...

When- lets call him "Bob"- said to me that he wanted to

"educate" his daughter about why I looked the way I did,

it made me feel like a science project.

When I see someone different or struggling

I usually just want to go up to them and tell them that they are awesome.

That's it.

And that is what I am teaching my children.

Again with the need to be treated with silk gloves... "educate" is not an insensitive word! She is an overly sensitive prissy, he's not mean, nor rude.

[treemom]

When- lets call him "Bob"- said to me that he wanted to

"educate" his daughter about why I looked the way I did,

it made me feel like a science project.

When I see someone different or struggling

I usually just want to go up to them and tell them that they are awesome.

That's it.

And that is what I am teaching my children.

Although honestly, that is something that would bother a lot of people as well.

[mebeforee]

It also sounds like the child asked her father about it, not that she was talking loudly or rudely to NieNie. I don't think it's unusual at all for a child, even in older grade school, to ask their parent quietly about people that appear different to them. What the adult did after that point is on him, but some kids really aren't exposed to people with disfigurements or heavy scarring outside of television. NieNie hadn't picked up on the fact that the child was noticing her until after the father came and asked her about it, so I don't think the child was being obvious about it. I think he probably should have handled it privately, like someone else suggested, because it's ridiculous to think that a stranger will automatically want to explain themselves to you. Especially when it comes to scarring from a traumatic injury of some kind that might have caused an emotional trauma, too. The intention seems good - wanting to promote understanding in his child rather than fear - but a lot of times burn scars are very clearly that. If her scars are that evident, he could have easily just told his daughter that the woman was hurt in a fire, rather than going up to her to get the details of her injury.

[Minerva]

It also sounds like the child asked her father about it, not that she was talking loudly or rudely to NieNie. I don't think it's unusual at all for a child, even in older grade school, to ask their parent quietly about people that appear different to them. What the adult did after that point is on him, but some kids really aren't exposed to people with disfigurements or heavy scarring outside of television. NieNie hadn't picked up on the fact that the child was noticing her until after the father came and asked her about it, so I don't think the child was being obvious about it. I think he probably should have handled it privately, like someone else suggested, because it's ridiculous to think that a stranger will automatically want to explain themselves to you. Especially when it comes to scarring from a traumatic injury of some kind that might have caused an emotional trauma, too. The intention seems good - wanting to promote understanding in his child rather than fear - but a lot of times burn scars are very clearly that. If her scars are that evident, he could have easily just told his daughter that the woman was hurt in a fire, rather than going up to her to get the details of her injury.

I was about to post basically the same thing. Kids don't know better than to treat people like a science exhibit, but adults should.

My dog is a rescue, and while he is okay with other dogs, that okay-ness does not happen until after a long exposure to that particular dog. I have worked extensively with him, but cannot get him to overcome his initial dog reactivity, especially toward small dogs. He's never hurt one, but he is very strong and I am afraid that he might. For that reason, I walk him on a Gentle Leader and a short leash. I HATE when other dog owners just allow their dogs to come up to him without asking. I'm doing the best I can with MY dog, trying to protect YOUR dog, so please do me the same courtesy.

My dog looks gentle (and he is with people), but he's terrible with other dogs, especially small dogs. Leash laws apply to all dogs in order to keep them all safe. And in order to keep me safe, because I'm the one whose arm he's going to try and dislocate in order to stay in the fight I'm trying to drag him out of.

Riffles

[Guest Anonymous]

I definitely see what this man did as rude and insensitive, if not intentionally 'mean'. I think that it is easy to take sides against Nie because she's not likeable and her position on this issue can bee seen as hypocritical. But, if you think about it, her position, her treatment of others, and her personality are irrelevant here because the man in question had no prior knowledge of these things. For all he knew, he had approached with sweetest, and nicest woman in all the world and was saying these things to her.

Also, this argument that asking questions is the better alternative to either gawping or whispering behind her back is nonsense. Why not try not gawping? Not whispering? Not asking questions? Try acting like a normal, decent human being and leaving a complete stranger alone.

It is not the job of a person with a disability or difference to educate the rest of the world in tolerance or understanding or even the minutiae of their own particular medical situation. A good parent should teach their child to accept difference without using a stranger on the street as a case study.

A few comments on this thread have suggested that answering this kind of question is a normal part of accepting the fact that you are different. If that is true then it is wrong. Next time you are out and about with a little time to kill, go up to a person who is an ethnic minority in your country and ask them what country their family came from originally and when. Go up to a gay couple and ask then what ages they were when they came out to their parents. Go up to someone who is overweight and ask them if they have tried eating healthily and exercising regularly or ask if their weight is a result of an underlying medical condition. You would feel like a douche in any one of those situations, wouldn't you?

It is not fine to go up to strangers and ask them intrusive personal questions.

The childlike curiosity / innocence argument does not play in this situation either. This was not a 'kids say the darndest things' unprovoked statement. An adult was involved in this situation, he processed the information, and made the decision to do what he did.

[velly]

Also, this argument that asking questions is the better alternative to either gawping or whispering behind her back is nonsense. Why not try not gawping? Not whispering? Not asking questions? Try acting like a normal, decent human being and leaving a complete stranger alone.

yes, I guess 10 year olds can be rather abnormal, indecent humans beings....

[Guest Anonymous]

I am not saying that the 10-year-old is the bad guy in this situation. The dad is. That said, a 10-year-old is not a baby; it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child of ten to be polite.

[velly]

I am not saying that the 10-year-old is the bad guy in this situation. The dad is. That said, a 10-year-old is not a baby; it is perfectly reasonable to expect a child of ten to be polite.

I don't know, I guess it depends on the way you're raised. I was always encouraged to ask questions and at 10 I am pretty sure I had never seen someone as burned as Nie and I would have probably asked my parents who are NOT abnormal, indecent human beings and they would have taken the correct form of action they thought... whether it was talking to me about it or asking the person if they'd mind sharing their story with me.

I don't think it's impolite to whisper, to be curious, to ask questions... it's not indecent, impolite, abnormal. As much as can be said people some times stand out and that causes curiosity... pretending not to be curious is basically going against being human, specially children whom may have never seen things and are likely to ask 'What's wrong with them?' 'What could have caused that?' and well it depends on parents how they chose to answer. I would find it HORRIBLE for the parent to tell the kid 'be quiet, that's wrong' because it's not wrong to want to know things.

[Letgo]

This topic brought back memories of when my children were small. I always tried to answer their questions honestly, but I did not want them pointing and staring at people. I told my kids to ask me questions privately, not in front of the person in question. We talked about how they would feel if people stared and pointed or laughed. This worked fairly well. We did have times when someone noticed my kids sneaking glances and he or she came over to us to explain why they had no fingers, had scars, were in a wheelchair, etc. We had some teachable moments about electric mixer and fire safety. I never met anyone who was obviously offended. They may have been, but were very nice anyway.

It's hard to deal with stares when you look different and it's hard to have curious children. I think the man was insensitive in the way he went about asking Nie Nie what happened, but at least he came up and asked. Nie Nie scars look like burn scars, though. I would think he could have figured this out and explained it quietly to his daughter. At ten she should be old enough to wait for Nie Nie to leave and then hear her dad's explanation.

[CanadianHippie]

I am still having a hard time seeing how he was 'insensitive' though. Would it had been better not to ask her to talk directly and have her be able to hear the child and father discussing her? I think he was sensitive and his words weren't in any way aimed at trying to make her feel bad.

She posted about it today...

Again with the need to be treated with silk gloves... "educate" is not an insensitive word! She is an overly sensitive prissy, he's not mean, nor rude.

She's also a liar. We know how Nei Nei reacts to people who are "different or struggling" from the way she treated the man with the neck brace.

[Morton Fan]

I definitely see what this man did as rude and insensitive, if not intentionally 'mean'. I think that it is easy to take sides against Nie because she's not likeable and her position on this issue can bee seen as hypocritical. But, if you think about it, her position, her treatment of others, and her personality are irrelevant here because the man in question had no prior knowledge of these things. For all he knew, he had approached with sweetest, and nicest woman in all the world and was saying these things to her.

Also, this argument that asking questions is the better alternative to either gawping or whispering behind her back is nonsense. Why not try not gawping? Not whispering? Not asking questions? Try acting like a normal, decent human being and leaving a complete stranger alone.

It is not the job of a person with a disability or difference to educate the rest of the world in tolerance or understanding or even the minutiae of their own particular medical situation. A good parent should teach their child to accept difference without using a stranger on the street as a case study.

A few comments on this thread have suggested that answering this kind of question is a normal part of accepting the fact that you are different. If that is true then it is wrong. Next time you are out and about with a little time to kill, go up to a person who is an ethnic minority in your country and ask them what country their family came from originally and when. Go up to a gay couple and ask then what ages they were when they came out to their parents. Go up to someone who is overweight and ask them if they have tried eating healthily and exercising regularly or ask if their weight is a result of an underlying medical condition. You would feel like a douche in any one of those situations, wouldn't you?

It is not fine to go up to strangers and ask them intrusive personal questions.

The childlike curiosity / innocence argument does not play in this situation either. This was not a 'kids say the darndest things' unprovoked statement. An adult was involved in this situation, he processed the information, and made the decision to do what he did.

My one-year-old is adopted, and his biological parents are immigrants from another continent. He is very "exotic" looking, and people are constantly asking variants of, "Where'd you get him?" I try to have a pat answer so that I don't feel awkward, and so that I can keep it brief. Nie Nie could benefit from this, I think. "I was in a plane crash and got very burned, but I'm doing much better now. We're just an ordinary family, really."

Once, someone asked me about my son, "Where'd you get THAT?" which was honestly offensive to me, although I think he was trying to be friendly or funny somehow, and didn't honestly mean to offend. It's not my son's choice that he is transracially adopted, but I hope that by kindly replying to anyone who asks, I can teach him healthy self-confidence and can answer others' questions if that is what they are seeking.

Lastly (this is getting a little NIe-Nie-esque because it's so long and all about me!), my baby daughter has a feeding tube through her nose and also wears a body harness for an orthopedic problem, and also has a noticeable birthmark on her face. She's also extremely tiny and has growth problems, in addition to being only a few months younger than our aforementioned son, so we get lots of stares and questions. Once again, I have a brief reply down pat. Occasionally I have become irritated when people stop to ask questions, but if I answer kindly, we often have a nice conversation, and I've found that most people mean well. I wish for Nie Nie's crabby sake that she could do the same.

[Noon]

Well, she's changed the topic header to 'It was a long day,' and put up a fairly rambling response post that doesn't say much of anything. Honestly, it hasn't been that long since the crash in the grand scheme of things. I'm not surprises she's dealing with things poorly, especially if she never experienced any kind of disability before the crash.

Hopefully in another few years she'll be able to shrug off encounters like these. I really hope she's seeing a good psychologist though...she seems troubled, and honestly, who the hell wouldn't be? Even my mild-to-moderate chronic pain makes me so frustrated and irrational sometimes; I can't imagine what it's like dealing with severe chronic pain...AND disfigurement...AND accident trauma...AND small children...AND the pressure to be a great LDS wife. Yeah, I'd snap.

As an aside...if her husband left her in the plane, how the heck did she not perish? I assume some extremely rapid rescue response crews?

[velly]

My one-year-old is adopted, and his biological parents are immigrants from another continent. He is very "exotic" looking, and people are constantly asking variants of, "Where'd you get him?" I try to have a pat answer so that I don't feel awkward, and so that I can keep it brief. Nie Nie could benefit from this, I think. "I was in a plane crash and got very burned, but I'm doing much better now. We're just an ordinary family, really."

Once, someone asked me about my son, "Where'd you get THAT?" which was honestly offensive to me, although I think he was trying to be friendly or funny somehow, and didn't honestly mean to offend. It's not my son's choice that he is transracially adopted, but I hope that by kindly replying to anyone who asks, I can teach him healthy self-confidence and can answer others' questions if that is what they are seeking.

Lastly (this is getting a little NIe-Nie-esque because it's so long and all about me!), my baby daughter has a feeding tube through her nose and also wears a body harness for an orthopedic problem, and also has a noticeable birthmark on her face. She's also extremely tiny and has growth problems, in addition to being only a few months younger than our aforementioned son, so we get lots of stares and questions. Once again, I have a brief reply down pat. Occasionally I have become irritated when people stop to ask questions, but if I answer kindly, we often have a nice conversation, and I've found that most people mean well. I wish for Nie Nie's crabby sake that she could do the same.

Exactly this! I have a few scars and things that I sometimes worry about and I feel insecure about. There is one on my neck that is particularly suspicious and ones on my wrists from cutting and a suicide attempt. Do I like it when people ask about them? Nope but this doesn't make everyone in the world mean or rude. I understand they cause attention and some people are HONESTLY curious and will ask. Some do it nicely and some do it in shock but in the end I can't get offended every time someone points and asks about them. I just try to be honest (or not, depends on how I judge the situation) and smile it off.

But in either case I would simply say 'it depends on the person' if they want to think that everyone that says something is rude or not.

I personally don't ask but that's just me... Unless someone calls me 'batshit crazy bitch cunt' for my scars I usually try and remind myself they stick out and some people express their curiosity more than others. And then there are those that don't care.

What I do hate are pushers (and now I'm all Nie-Nie'd talking about myself in a long ramble). Some people get ANNOYING when I tell them what I want them to know but this is not enough and they push and push for concrete answers. Like if Nie had answered 'well i was burned in a plane crash' and the person would have asked 'and how did that happen? were you drunk? was the pilot drunk? where did they get their license? do you ever wish you had died? (and I've been asked this before...)' etc, etc, etc then I'd have Nie's back all the way...

[Kitchen Princess]

Although honestly, that is something that would bother a lot of people as well.

That would be COMPLETELY patronizing and would tick me off, too. You don't know me enough to know that I'm "awesome" and just what the fuck to "awesome" mean in this context anyway?

I have a SIL who is the stupidest person on the planet. Couldn't have children; fostered then adopted, then got pregnant. The fundie-lites on her FB fawn all over her because she is an "adoptive" mother, but what they don't know is that she ALMOST LET HER BIO BABY STARVE BECAUSE SHE WAS READING MICHAEL FUCKING PEARL!!! She comes to family events and goes to sleep on the recliner while the rest of us put up with her kids. (Her husband is only marginally better.)

Her suck-ups all think she's "awesome", but she's NOT, because looks are deceiving.

[Minerva]

That would be COMPLETELY patronizing and would tick me off, too. You don't know me enough to know that I'm "awesome" and just what the fuck to "awesome" mean in this context anyway?

I have a SIL who is the stupidest person on the planet. Couldn't have children; fostered then adopted, then got pregnant. The fundie-lites on her FB fawn all over her because she is an "adoptive" mother, but what they don't know is that she ALMOST LET HER BIO BABY STARVE BECAUSE SHE WAS READING MICHAEL FUCKING PEARL!!! She comes to family events and goes to sleep on the recliner while the rest of us put up with her kids. (Her husband is only marginally better.)

Her suck-ups all think she's "awesome", but she's NOT, because looks are deceiving.

My brother with a somewhat visible disability hates it when people tell him he's awesome because of his disability. It's blatantly fake, and still constitutes drawing public attention to something he'd rather not discuss. As time passes, the disability will become less visible, but he may still have to develop a canned answer for strangers' questions. I hope he does, and is forgiving, and answers people with patience because it seems a better way to cope, but all those strangers still have no right to demand information about his diagnosis. We have natural curiosity, but we also have the ability to control it .

[Librul]

I definitely see what this man did as rude and insensitive, if not intentionally 'mean'. I think that it is easy to take sides against Nie because she's not likeable and her position on this issue can bee seen as hypocritical. But, if you think about it, her position, her treatment of others, and her personality are irrelevant here because the man in question had no prior knowledge of these things. For all he knew, he had approached with sweetest, and nicest woman in all the world and was saying these things to her.

Also, this argument that asking questions is the better alternative to either gawping or whispering behind her back is nonsense. Why not try not gawping? Not whispering? Not asking questions? Try acting like a normal, decent human being and leaving a complete stranger alone.

It is not the job of a person with a disability or difference to educate the rest of the world in tolerance or understanding or even the minutiae of their own particular medical situation. A good parent should teach their child to accept difference without using a stranger on the street as a case study.

A few comments on this thread have suggested that answering this kind of question is a normal part of accepting the fact that you are different. If that is true then it is wrong. Next time you are out and about with a little time to kill, go up to a person who is an ethnic minority in your country and ask them what country their family came from originally and when. Go up to a gay couple and ask then what ages they were when they came out to their parents. Go up to someone who is overweight and ask them if they have tried eating healthily and exercising regularly or ask if their weight is a result of an underlying medical condition. You would feel like a douche in any one of those situations, wouldn't you?

It is not fine to go up to strangers and ask them intrusive personal questions.

The childlike curiosity / innocence argument does not play in this situation either. This was not a 'kids say the darndest things' unprovoked statement. An adult was involved in this situation, he processed the information, and made the decision to do what he did.