Nie Nie today and the tag "Mean People"

[treemom]

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2012/06/it-was-long-day.html

Just as I ended my order a bigger man and his ten year old daughter came up to me.

His voice was loud and he boldly said to me:

"My daughter wants to know what's wrong with you.

She wants to know why you look that way, and I want to educate her so she knows about different people. I don't mean to embarrass you, but I think its important she knows about people who look different than us."

I wanted to call Mr. Nielson and have him come rescue me, then I wanted to cry.

After trying my nicest I explained what had happened, he turned to this little girl and said:

"See, she is normal just like us"

After that, I grabbed my smoothies are ran out the door.

I was so sad.

I was super worried about showing some "skin",

and then pretty much decided never to go out alone again.

I understand nienie's concerns about appearance. Some of the most together women I know will cringe over far smaller cosmetic issues. So I don't judge her for being senstive. And I agree if the man said it like that it wasn't sensitive as it could have been. And I know just because some people with visible differences don't want to be asked. But I sort of have a problem with her tagging the post mean people. He isn't being 'mean.' If anything he was trying to show his daughter that people with visible differences, ones that might even look scary, aren't scary and they are just normal people like everyone is.

I don't judge her for wanting to run away or cry. I don't judge her for going home and talking to her husband about it and being reassured. I judge her for the fact that she has effectively tagged people who ask questions as mean, not nosey, not rude, mean. Which to mean implies intent.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd have tagged it "insensitive people". But I actually give her a pass on labelling him "mean". In effect he seems to have said "I know that this will embarrass you but my daughter's education is more important than your feelings". I'd have been upset by that too.

[treemom]

I'd have tagged it "insensitive people". But I actually give her a pass on labelling him "mean". In effect he seems to have said "I know that this will embarrass you but my daughter's education is more important than your feelings". I'd have been upset by that too.

See I think insensitive and mean are two different things. And like I said I don't actually have an issue with how she felt, I guess I just feel like she lacks self awareness.

[Witsec7]

The man may have been lacking grace and tact, but I can understand his intentions.

[treemom]

The man may have been lacking grace and tact, but I can understand his intentions.

And sometimes I think it is confusing for people, because a lot of "It is better for you to ask than to stare" gets said by people. So he probably was awkward and tactless, but my guess is he was trying to follow that mantra that people with all sorts of differences say.

[treemom]

Also, I admit I am doubtful as to whether he said it like that. Nienie has a revisionist tendency.

[Petronella7]

I think that guy was being an ass and I have no problem that she tagged the encounter "Mean People." He was not only insensitive, he was being rude, inconsiderate, nosy, and pushy. Those things, taken together, do = Mean in my opinion. If I had a noticeable physical difference and someone acted like that to me in public I would tell them to fuck right off. It is not Nie's or anyone else's duty to be a living educational tool for anyone else's kid. That is just my opinion, but I do know that I hate being bothered by strangers in public more than a lot of people do.

I have read about burn survivors, amputees, people who use wheelchairs, etc, not minding honest questions like that because they want to further public awareness or whatever and would rather have people come right out and ask rather than staring and whispering, and I really admire being able to do that, but I cannot do that and I think it is totally anybody's right to be able to go about their business in public without having to answer a whole lot of impertinent questions from strangers.

[treemom]

One more thing, personally I think what the guy should have done is reminded his daughter to not stare (if she was) and handled the conversation privately after Nienie was gone. But on lots of blogs and other things people do say "I understand questions from children" or "Questions are ok" and stuff like that. Of course just because some say it doesn't mean everyone is willing to answer personal questions and or for that reason alone it is ok to ask people those questions. But I still think that the intent was probably a positive one. A poorly executed attempt, but still positive in intent.

[treemom]

I think that guy was being an ass and I have no problem that she tagged the encounter "Mean People." He was not only insensitive, he was being rude, inconsiderate, nosy, and pushy. Those things, taken together, do = Mean in my opinion. If I had a noticeable physical difference and someone acted like that to me in public I would tell them to fuck right off. It is not Nie's or anyone else's duty to be a living educational tool for anyone else's kid. That is just my opinion, but I do know that I hate being bothered by strangers in public more than a lot of people do.

I have read about burn survivors, amputees, people who use wheelchairs, etc, not minding honest questions like that because they want to further public awareness or whatever and would rather have people come right out and ask rather than staring and whispering, and I really admire being able to do that, but I cannot do that and I think it is totally anybody's right to be able to go about their business in public without having to answer a whole lot of impertinent questions from strangers.

Do you understand that there is likely some confusion by being told in the media, by those with visible differences, that asking questions is ok?

I still don't get how rude, nose, and insensitive implies the intent that mean does.

(and while I don't think this allows me to speak for anyone but myself, but I have had times in my life where I have had clear visible differences - I have epidermolysis bullosa acquisita- and while I don't think anyone ever asked me about my skinless hands I probably would have cried if they did. I always cringed when I was paying for things or it was really bad.)

[mnb357]

What is her backstory? I poked around for a bit on her

blog, but couldn't figure her out.

[jesssnerch]

What is her backstory? I poked around for a bit on her

blog, but couldn't figure her out.

Mormon, plane crash, horrible burns, survived against the odds, added to her quiver, has a blog.

[Guest Anonymous]

I think that 'mean' is a fair characterization. I think that it is a mistake to defend this guy. If this all went down the way she says (I guess it's a big 'if'), then this guy is a douchebag. I don't think that there is any defense in the idea that the media says it's OK to ask questions. The media doesn't say that very often, it's not something that has been routinely drummed into us like other tropes. Common sense should tell us that, just because some people say it's fine to ask questions, it doesn't mean that everybody is open to unprovoked prying.

Spelling

[abba12]

I understand the emotions that come with being asked and I do understand her feelings of having it called out, but as far as I see he was, granted completely without tact, trying to educate himself and his daughter about different people. I remember as a child, perhaps around 11 or 12, asking a man with a huge birthmark covering half his face in purple about why he looked that way. Today I would handle it more tactfully of course, but I am grateful to him for smiling and telling me his story.

I use a white cane and I love the few times a parent and child will come up to me and ask me about my cane. Kids wonder how it works and what it's for. It can be hard emotionally sometimes, a reminder of being different, but I encourage it because people learn, and want to learn, instead of simply remaining ignorant and making assumptions based off movies and TV shows, usually very inaccurately.

Having said that, a lot depends on how he said it. I had a lovely lady come up to me with a curious young girl and ask if I minded speaking to them for a couple of minutes, that was great. On the other hand, one day I went to the guide dogs campus open day as moral support for a new dog partnership, and to catch up with a couple of friends doing the organising, and the number of times I heard people excitedly and loudly say things like 'LOOK, there's one of *them*!', children and adults alike! It's dehumanizing, like a sideshow event. But I hate those open day things anyway, just an excuse for rich people who donate once a year to come and feel good about themselves for helping the 'poor blind kids', and we cater to it because we need their donations. *sigh*. Hence attending as moral support for the people forced to attend for the graduating dog display.

I'm sorry for the disabled or disfigured people who find polite approaches from strangers too upsetting, but to be honest, we ARE different, and we need to accept that, and people are naturally curious. That's not wrong, just human nature. If they're politely asking questions it's probably because they want to understand, not make fun of you. The majority of disabled people welcome it, so unfortunately the minority who don't like it will find it happens. Please just politely say you'd rather not talk about it and keep walking.

[valsa]

The guy was an ass.

Also, what 10 year old doesn't know that just because someone looks different doesn't mean they're not normal? That's a question I'd expect from, like, a 6 or 7 year old.

[Librul]

Huge difference for me in the question coming from a child and coming from a grown up FOR the child, then saying, "see, she's human" or whatever he said. Insensitive AND mean.

[treemom]

I think that 'mean' is a fair characterization. I think that it is a mistake to defend this guy. If this all went down the way she says (I guess it's a big 'if'), then this guy is a douchebag. I don't think that there is any defense in the idea that the media says it's OK to ask questions. The media doesn't say that very often, it's not something that has been routinely drummed into us like other tropes. Common sense should tell us that, just because some people say it's fine to ask questions, it doesn't mean that everybody is open to unprovoked prying.

Spelling

See I think it has been drummed into us.

[Deleted03]

I think he was being insensitive and self-centered. It might make this act mean, but I don't think he was being mean.

This woman had no obligation to answer him - and I say that to defend her. Obviously she is still struggling with the trauma and has all the rights to feel upset or pointed out by this behavior. I don't think this guy is teaching his daughter anything valuable: that you need to prove that someone who looks different is actually a normal person? Why can't you just tell her that, and point out the cases of people you know. By treating this woman differently - approaching her even though she is a stranger, and asking her personal questions, he does not get the "different" label out. It means that his daughter can now think that it's ok to ask personal questions to complete strangers.

Are you going to ask someone with a prominent nose if it's natural, genetic, result of a break, or goddess knows what?

Obviously being sensitive to other people means understanding that some topics might be sensitive.

[polabear]

I think mean is fair too. The guy did not treat her like a person. He treated her like an object that was designed to teach his daughter something.

You can teach your kids that people come in all shapes and sizes without demanding explanations about peoples' appearances.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Ouch. Kids do ask awkward questions. Once one of my offspring asked loudly why a guy with an artificial leg had "a robot leg." He could have answered the question without such an insensitive comment.

[velly]

Ouch. Kids do ask awkward questions. Once one of my offspring asked loudly why a guy with an artificial leg had "a robot leg." He could have answered the question without such an insensitive comment.

I don't know... I think "robot leg" is a nice term? I mean coming from a child I'd see it as a cute thing but an adult or even a teenager would be most annoying.

As for Nie. Eh... I am over her. I understand her feeling bad but what bothers me most about her post is her constant 'poor me' attitude and the need for creepy Mr. Nielsen to CONSTANTLY be there or she seems to crumble or not be able to function. Like I said before, she seems deeply psychologically disturbed and stuck in this lala land that she created for herself where she is a princess in a castle and Mr. Nielsen is some kind of Prince that slays monsters for her. So much for leaving her to burn inside that plane huh? I wonder if that's her way of coping with that... making him her constant hero since he failed SO BADLY at it before.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

I don't know... I think "robot leg" is a nice term? I mean coming from a child I'd see it as a cute thing but an adult or even a teenager would be most annoying.

It wasn't as bad as it could have been. :) Just saying, they can't help but rubberneck.

[theologygeek]

The man may have been lacking grace and tact, but I can understand his intentions.

I understand too. My daughter's best friend's mother is in a wheelchair. She says that she wants people to ask her why she is in a wheelchair. She hates when parents shush their children and tell them not to look at her. It really frustrates her and she will call the kids over if she hears them asking about her, and she will talk to them about why she is disabled. I think that the man thought he was doing a good thing and that Nie Nie would be pleased at how he handled it. He probably meant well. But everyone's different and not everyone is going to be pleased when they are asked about their condition.

[theologygeek]

And sometimes I think it is confusing for people, because a lot of "It is better for you to ask than to stare" gets said by people. So he probably was awkward and tactless, but my guess is he was trying to follow that mantra that people with all sorts of differences say.

I agree.

[theologygeek]

See I think it has been drummed into us.

I do too.

[theologygeek]

I think mean is fair too. The guy did not treat her like a person. He treated her like an object that was designed to teach his daughter something.

You can teach your kids that people come in all shapes and sizes without demanding explanations about peoples' appearances.

I'm not seeing the meanness. A little stupid perhaps, but I wouldn't call it mean. He was trying to show his daughter that people who look different are just like everyone else. Besides, he had no idea if Nie Nie was one of the people who want to be asked. There are people who want to be asked and get mad if kids are pulled away or shushed. I could understand that because it conveys a message of treating them like they are invisible.