Nie Nie today and the tag "Mean People"

[treemom]

And that is the thing, yes it is stupid to assume everyone is ok with being asked, but yo know what I have never read or heard in mainstream media or blogs? "Please don't ask question.". That doesn't mean there are not tons of people out there, but we pick up social graces partially from how we would like to be treated in that situation and how we are communicated that people "in general" want to be treated.

So while the guys was tactless, I just can't characterize him as mean. And I certainly think that is a bit ridiculous coming from nienie. I like-ish her, I read her book and liked it, but she wants to be treated with kid gloves, but everyone. Well none of us get that, burned or not. The babies and kiddos I see every day get started at an asked questions and nothing they or their parents did have anything to do with why. People of different races get stared at. Hell when we were in China people lterally lined up to take a picture of my son, and touched him (and many openly laughed at me).

I give her her feelings. I get it, I am sure it is hard and that very first day wearing a skirt and free legs, I am sure it was horrible. But she lacks any ability to climb out of her own head.

And yes she needs therapy, but all she will get is Mormon religious bullshit. (and how many people think she wold have recoiled or asked rude questions before the plane accident, well I do!)

[lilah]

I work in education and whenever my students ask me personal questions, I usually teach them that first they need to ask an adult if it's okay to ask about something personal - their age, marital status weight, etc.

[oscar]

Hey, remember how tactful and polite Nie was when her unleashed dogs ran up on a visibly disabled older man?

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2005/10/neck-brace-man.html

No, wait - that's not actually what happened. She mocked his appearance and said he was the "world's biggest grump."

When Nie made fun of that man's disability, she meant it to be comical. But when someone else's hamfisted and tactless attempt at a teachable moment hit her in a vulnerable place, she believes they're simply mean and cruel.

[velly]

Hey, remember how tactful and polite Nie was when her unleashed dogs ran up on a visibly disabled older man?

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2005/10/neck-brace-man.html

No, wait - that's not actually what happened. She mocked his appearance and said he was the "world's biggest grump."

When Nie made fun of that man's disability, she meant it to be comical. But when someone else's hamfisted and tactless attempt at a teachable moment hit her in a vulnerable place, she believes they're simply mean and cruel.

the girl is fucking insane... period.

[velly]

I don't know why I posted that comment twice... hmm... time for this little snarker to go to bed! Someone save me from work tomorrow? Maybe I'll pray hard enough and win the lottery =P OR do the right thin and marry a rich man? That's what He would want mhm.

[treemom]

Hey, remember how tactful and polite Nie was when her unleashed dogs ran up on a visibly disabled older man?

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2005/10/neck-brace-man.html

No, wait - that's not actually what happened. She mocked his appearance and said he was the "world's biggest grump."

When Nie made fun of that man's disability, she meant it to be comical. But when someone else's hamfisted and tactless attempt at a teachable moment hit her in a vulnerable place, she believes they're simply mean and cruel.

That was exacTly what I was thinking about,

[bellamonster04]

I think "mean" is appropriate. It seems like she could put herself into the same category as well.

So what if his daughter had a question? If he felt that coming up to her would have been embarrassing and did it anyway, it was an asshole thing to do. If it never occurred to him that it may not be an appropriate question to ask a total strange I might lean more towards "insensitive" but it seems like he knew it might offend her in some way.

[thoughtful]

Hey, remember how tactful and polite Nie was when her unleashed dogs ran up on a visibly disabled older man?

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2005/10/neck-brace-man.html

No, wait - that's not actually what happened. She mocked his appearance and said he was the "world's biggest grump."

When Nie made fun of that man's disability, she meant it to be comical. But when someone else's hamfisted and tactless attempt at a teachable moment hit her in a vulnerable place, she believes they're simply mean and cruel.

I think the man Nie encountered (if she portrayed him accurately) was rude. But I thank you, Oscar, for the opportunity to see how Nie behaved when confronted with someone a bit different. Enjoy the judgmental attitude, the nastiness about pugs, :cry: the misspellings (she was exited and sacred!), the lack of respect for rules, the Godwin, the horror when she realizes he's a person, her excuse for still scorning him (did I miss anything?):

I hiked, happy and content until, I ran into a man who had two rat pug dogs on leashes. Now, it needs to be said that he indeed had a neck brace on. I know being prejudice against people with disabilities is considered discourteous, but whom are we kidding it was an awesome sight, something right out of a amusing movie.

His hair was gray and I was sure he was in his middle 60’s. Of course Nan and Bobby went right up to the rat pug dogs and sniffed them up and down. The man was so furious I thought his neck brace was going to pop.

“Don’t you know that dogs are supposed to be on leashes up here LADY�

The tone of his voice was cruel, but I think him calling me “lady†was more offensive. I smirked and apologized. It was true, the dogs were not controlled and I was having a ruff time calling them back to me. He yelled some more complaints as I walked past him. I went home to tell my dad that I ran into the world’s biggest grump.

Next morning, I saw the neck-brace man again. I ignored him as I hiked past him on the third switchback. He didn’t have his dogs with him this time thank goodness, but he did pull out his pointer finger like it was a gun. He began waving it in the air, but all I could hear was Postal Service on my MP3 player. I smiled and walked past him confidently. I turned around and he was staring at me with his arms folded up to his chest. It was (I must admit) creepy. Who does he think he is? The “Y†nazi?

I retold the story to my Dad and he told me that dogs in fact DON’T have to be on leashes at the “Y†because it is private property. Hmmm, now I was exited to run into neck brace again, I’d tell him what’s what.

Next morning, just as I suspected the man was there again. I saw him coming towards me and I was sacred, yet confident with what I could come back with. He yelled again, his finger was madly pointing at me and he called me LADY again. I gasped, and came back with my ditty. We must have yelled for what seemed like 20 minutes. But I felt like I had won the battle.

(snip - more of the same the next day)

That night I was invited to the BYU homecoming football game with my Dad and brothers. I was delighted! We found our seats and sat down eager for the game to start. I happen to turn around and something familiar caught my eye…a neck brace! I double took and looked, it was him…neck-brace man. Our eyes almost met and I gasped and gulped, he was only two seats behind me. Could this Sienfield episode really be happing to me? I told my Dad who casually turned around and then; he began waving even talking to neck brace man.

Dad looked at me and said. “That’s my good friend†Could it get worse? Yes it could, when neck brace came to chitchat with Dad during half time. I looked away praying that he would notice me.

Come to find out neck-brace man was responsible for the “facelift†that “Y†mountain got which I despise. http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,630152833,00.html

Neck-brace man is Stephen Stewart. Beware SS, I’ll be back…don’t you worry dogs in tow!

edited to fix quote

[Deleted10]

Why did she have to publically name the man with the neck brace? What a baby.

[Minerva]

This is my first time ever finding a fundy's reaction to a situation reasonable, but yeah, that was douchy of the guy. Hopefully he learned his lesson after seeing her reaction.

[Kitchen Princess]

I think the man could have handled it better by simply making eye contact with her, and interacting with her like he would have anyone else. Holding the door open, stepping aside as she passed in the narrow way, saying "how ya doin?" when their eyes met. THAT would be a better example of how to treat someone different than you than stepping up and asking pointed questions as an object lesson.

I had a friend 30 years ago who was a paraplegic and one of the most useful things I learned from him was to "ask if they want help". That lesson can apply all around. One of the most common interactions with strangers is when going through public door ways (malls, buildings, etc.). If I see someone in a wheelchair approaching the door, I ask if I can get the door for them if it is not out of my way--the same as I would do with a mom approaching the door with a stroller. This gives me no rights to ask why the person is in a wheelchair. It is simply civil human interaction between strangers. I once witnessed an elderly gentleman trip on the curb as he got out of his car and fall to the ground very stiffly, about 5 feet away from me. Instead of reaching down and trying to pull him up, I remembered my friend's advice and asked if I could help him up. He said, "Thanks for asking!" and offered me his arm.

If I were to meet Nie Nie in a coffee shop, I'd hold the door for her, meet her eyes if necessary, and say hello or excuse me as we passed. Just like I would do for any other person in the world.

I don't think the man was mean. I think he was well-intentioned, but clueless. If Nie Nie doesn't want to face a lifetime of "mean people", she should offer advice to the next person who asks the pointed question on how they can be nicer to her and people like her.

[Kishiria]

No, I think that what he did was mean. Even though Nienie makes me roll my eyes, the fact is that she was not put on this earth so that guy could point her out and use her as a lesson.

[treemom]

So perhaps I am wrong, I still have a hard time conjuring up mean for this guy, but perhaps that is my own bias.

At the end of the day, she has to learn to live in this world as she looks. Perhaps had she never been viewed as pretty it wouldn't be as hard (I imagine it is always hard). I think she still sees beauty = worth. And perhaps she assumes all of us do?

( and no, I wouldn't have asked much like previous posters I would have treated her just like everyone other human being I encountered, because she is one and deserves that much)

[Arete]

I have a friend who has had a multi-decade battle with MS. She uses a wheelchair out of doors, and a rolling walker indoors. This is just her particular opinion as one disabled woman, but she is very open to children asking her why she uses those devices, and if she hears them asking another adult about her, will jump right in and explain. Not a problem for her at all, she has kids and now grandkids, and understands children are curious, and also understands that shushing them is not the best way to get them comfortable around different people.

What really pisses her off? If she catches an adult staring at her. She doesn't care if your mama didn't teach you manners or what your excuse is, to her adults should be able to process her disability without making her feel like a circus freak.

[Hane]

Re thoughtful's quoted piece above, about the gray-haired guy in the neck brace and his "rat" pugs: Nie's attitude was worthy of Miss Raquel herself. If I were walking my Peke on a leash and were wearing a brace (I have had to wear a knee brace), I'd be pissed off if some smirking little twat let her unleashed dogs come rushing up to us. Way to respect your elders, you entitled little piece of $#!+.

[DowagerDuchess]

NieNie gives me a headache with her deep seeded need for entitlement. She's a queen bee and she damn sure wants everyone to know it.

Please tell me she is NOT riding that motorcycle without a helmet.

NieNie's husband gives me the creeps, as in there is simply something sleezy about him. I do not get a good vibe from him and i don't like him.

[CanadianHippie]

She's riding something without a helmet.

[Patsy]

I'm not really annoyed at the post like treemom, but I do agree that "mean" isn't the right word. His actions aren't pristine or harmless, I agree, but to say "mean" seems to sort of imply that that he was intentionally hurting her, and should/would have known that asking a question would lead to her needing her husband to protect her frail self. It could just be that she has totally different associations with the word than I do, but given her persecution complex (I was rude? YEAH WELL I HAVE BURNS) I wouldn't put money on it.

[mebeforee]

“Don’t you know that dogs are supposed to be on leashes up here LADY�

The tone of his voice was cruel, but I think him calling me “lady†was more offensive.

..the hell? Why is being called 'lady' offensive? I call my friends 'lady' all the time. Also, he was probably upset because he was walking two very small dogs. Seeing larger dogs run toward them unleashed would've made me nervous, because if those dogs started a fight they could have been hurt. It's not cruel for someone to be concerned about the welfare of their pets. Especially if you can't get your own dogs to obey by calling them, you should have them on a leash. Untrained dogs should not be unleashed on a public trail.

He didn’t have his dogs with him this time thank goodness

SHE WAS THE ONE AT FAULT. He probably didn't bring his dogs BECAUSE of hers!

Anyway. It's hard to know whether or not he was 'mean' without actually hearing the way he spoke to her. I've heard that about 80% of communication is through body language and vocal tone, so even if she is quoting him word-for-word, it's impossible for me to decide whether she's in the right or not. But if she is dressing in a way unlike the mainstream, she must know that people will notice it. When you deliberately go against the grain, you should expect SOME level of recognition and curiosity. It might not be comfortable to discuss it, but it kind of comes with the territory, doesn't it? And if anything, his coming up and asking her to explain her dress to his daughter is an opportunity to Save a young, impressionable child.

[elliesmash]

Also, he was probably upset because he was walking two very small dogs. Seeing larger dogs run toward them unleashed would've made me nervous, because if those dogs started a fight they could have been hurt. It's not cruel for someone to be concerned about the welfare of their pets. Especially if you can't get your own dogs to obey by calling them, you should have them on a leash. Untrained dogs should not be unleashed on a public trail.

QFT.

Even if her dogs weren't aggressive and just being friendly, his dogs might not have been friendly. I hate when people's random dogs pop out of nowhere in front of my pit bull's face. Yeah, I'm sure they're friendly- MY DOG IS NOT AND I DON'T WANT A FIGHT ON MY HANDS. People with attitudes like that make me so upset. If he has a neck injury then getting breaking up a dog fight becomes a thousand times more complicated, as well.

[kolga]

My dog is a rescue, and while he is okay with other dogs, that okay-ness does not happen until after a long exposure to that particular dog. I have worked extensively with him, but cannot get him to overcome his initial dog reactivity, especially toward small dogs. He's never hurt one, but he is very strong and I am afraid that he might. For that reason, I walk him on a Gentle Leader and a short leash. I HATE when other dog owners just allow their dogs to come up to him without asking. I'm doing the best I can with MY dog, trying to protect YOUR dog, so please do me the same courtesy.

[Clementine]

Hey, remember how tactful and polite Nie was when her unleashed dogs ran up on a visibly disabled older man?

nieniedialogues.blogspot.com/2005/10/neck-brace-man.html

No, wait - that's not actually what happened. She mocked his appearance and said he was the "world's biggest grump."

When Nie made fun of that man's disability, she meant it to be comical. But when someone else's hamfisted and tactless attempt at a teachable moment hit her in a vulnerable place, she believes they're simply mean and cruel.

Stephanie calls peopple "fat" in a demeaning way on her blog. If she doesn't want to get attention from strangers because of her apppearance, she shouldn't comment on other peoples flaws.

She is an entitled idiot who acts like a mean high school girl (and I honestly think that she still is on a mental and intellectual level of a 16 year old) but expects everybody else to treat her with kid gloves.

But that guy was a complete ass. Why would you ask a very personal question to a complete stranger? Rude, rude, rude!

[VintageJen1984]

..the hell? Why is being called 'lady' offensive? I call my friends 'lady' all the time. Also, he was probably upset because he was walking two very small dogs. Seeing larger dogs run toward them unleashed would've made me nervous, because if those dogs started a fight they could have been hurt. It's not cruel for someone to be concerned about the welfare of their pets. Especially if you can't get your own dogs to obey by calling them, you should have them on a leash. Untrained dogs should not be unleashed on a public trail.

SHE WAS THE ONE AT FAULT. He probably didn't bring his dogs BECAUSE of hers!

Anyway. It's hard to know whether or not he was 'mean' without actually hearing the way he spoke to her. I've heard that about 80% of communication is through body language and vocal tone, so even if she is quoting him word-for-word, it's impossible for me to decide whether she's in the right or not. But if she is dressing in a way unlike the mainstream, she must know that people will notice it. When you deliberately go against the grain, you should expect SOME level of recognition and curiosity. It might not be comfortable to discuss it, but it kind of comes with the territory, doesn't it? And if anything, his coming up and asking her to explain her dress to his daughter is an opportunity to Save a young, impressionable child.

While I still think NieNie is overreacting, this isn't some long-skirts wearing head-covering fundie getting offended some little girl is asking about it. She was burned in a plane crash and has burn scars on her face. Someone who is burned does not deliberately choose to go out in public that way, they have no choice.

[Beeks]

I think Nie has a bit of a persecution complex and always had. Long before the crash she would get miffed if people said to her "wow you have your hands full" when she was like, 23 and took her 3 little kids shopping. I have two little ones and people say that to me ALL the time when we're out - it's almost exclusively older women and they have all said it in a sweet "I remember those days!" way. But Nie took it as an insult and a judgment on her lifestyle.

I also agree with Treemom that we're told over and over to "just ask." That said, I know not everyone reacts the same way. My older son (3 in a few months) thinks any kind of assistive device like wheelchairs, scooters, canes, etc is really really cool. He will often loudly comment to me when he sees a person using one. I'm always so nervous and not quite sure what to say - he is saying in an excited voice "mom! Look! A chair with wheels!" and stuff like that. He's always just in awe. Usually I will say "yes, some people use X to help them get around." As he gets a bit older I will add that it's not polite to comment on what other people are wearing/holding/etc, but at this point it feels like hushing him up would almost be more insulting to people because it's implying there's something shameful about their situation. I dunno, it's a tough call for me.

I can see where the man thought he should ask and then got awkward and stuck his foot in his mouth.

[treemom]

I thought about this more and I think the reason it bothered me is because of who wrote it. Because she has been less than kind in the past and she doesn't seem to want to give the world the benefit of the doubt that she, herself wants.

Still, I clearly wasn't so right it is clear to everyone,